Online Gambling

darkman2

Hi, I know two of my friends are addicted online gamblers. One guy has no money left a few hours after he gets his paycheck (about €400). He has no money to get to work or to buy any food. His family then has to bail him out the rest of the week. This has been going on, to my knowledge, for at least a year. His family is being destroyed over it and im pretty certain he is stealing from them aswell. He owes everyone practically he knows money. He owes me money aswell. It's definately effecting his family. His da does not even talk to him anymore. He has at least one summons for debt to a phone company. He is 20 btw. The other guy is not quite as bad yet but it's almost exactly the same evolution and he is going the same way fast. The former Id expect to be homeless with a month or two.


What to make of it? To be honest I never gave this a thought as to just how life destroying this is. It does not matter how much sense you try to talk into them but they never listen. Sometimes I feel like actually hitting one of them it is so frustrating.

Anybody have this experience with people they know or even themselves?

Naos

Experienced poster but still I'd like to point out, you're in AH dude.

Edit: Have you spoken to either of them?

super_furry

It's incredibly frustrating and often impossible to reason with an addict. Its an old truism but they would be able to get help until they want it.

keane2097

Do they play online poker?

Any idea what their screen names are?

darkman2

Naos wrote: »

Experienced poster but still I'd like to point out, you're in AH dude.

Edit: Have you spoken to either of them?

Not for a while. Ive given up on them. You would want to experience what happens for yourself to understand why. They don't listen to you and they just get into more and more trouble.


IMHO Online gambling should be banned seeing what happens first hand. It's seriously bad. My opinion is cause it seems so easy. Don't have to even leave the couch anymore to gamble. Im aware that if computers did not exist in the morning they would be down the bookies anyway but it's too easy IMO.

darkman2

keane2097 wrote: »

Do they play online poker?

Any idea what their screen names are?

Yes and no. His brother trys banning the sites but there is so many of them. It's a waste of time.


TBH you just get the impression they need to be kicked out to see the consequences of their actions. Seems to me it's the family that suffers most whilst the gambler just does not give a sh*t. And they don't.

keane2097

darkman2 wrote: »

Yes and no. His brother trys banning the sites but there is so many of them. It's a waste of time.


TBH you just get the impression they need to be kicked out to see the consequences of their actions. Seems to me it's the family that suffers most whilst the gambler just does not give a sh*t. And they don't.

I was wanting to play them heads up tbh

dcmu

darkman2 wrote: »

Hi, I know two of my friends are addicted online gamblers. One guy has no money left a few hours after he gets his paycheck (about €400). He has no money to get to work or to buy any food. His family then has to bail him out the rest of the week. This has been going on, to my knowledge, for at least a year. His family is being destroyed over it and im pretty certain he is stealing from them aswell. He owes everyone practically he knows money. He owes me money aswell. It's definately effecting his family. His da does not even talk to him anymore. He has at least one summons for debt to a phone company. He is 20 btw. The other guy is not quite as bad yet but it's almost exactly the same evolution and he is going the same way fast. The former Id expect to be homeless with a month or two.

Tenner says he won't be???

SV

I had a brief period of online gambling..
spent about 2 or 3 grand before I stopped

luckily I managed to though..really feel sorry for your friends, it's incredibly addictive and very hard to get away from..

Herbal Deity

darkman2 wrote: »

IMHO Online gambling should be banned seeing what happens first hand.

Seriously, why is the first thing that anyone ever thinks of as a solution to any problem in this country to ban it?

Your friend needs help because he has a problem. The solution is not to prevent others who can actually manage to gamble as an indulgence in moderation from doing so.

My name is URL

A good friend of mine is addicted to playing Online Poker.. rarely see him at the weekends any more and when he is about all he does is talk about how much he won during the week.. he never talks about the thousands and thousands of euro he's blown at it though

I wouldn't know what to say to him about the possibility that he has a problem, I'm sure he already knows that he has.. it's up to the individual to realise they need to stop, and as with most addictions that doesn't happen until they hit rock bottom

darkman2

Herbal Deity wrote: »

Seriously, why is the first thing that anyone ever thinks of as a solution to any problem in this country to ban it?

Your friend needs help because he has a problem. The solution is not to prevent others who can actually manage to gamble as an indulgence in moderation from doing so.

I think this is a far bigger problem in the country then you are appreciating. Of course not everyone is going to be an addict but online gambling has already been banned in the US if im not mistaken? Or certain States anyway. And if it has there must be a very good reason for doing so.

keane2097

darkman2 wrote: »

I think this is a far bigger problem in the country then you are appreciating.

Just because you have two friends who are degenerates is no reason to ban everyone from doing it.

Why do we have to cater the degens rather than the reasonable people?

darkman2 wrote: »

Of course not everyone is going to be an addict but online gambling has already been banned in the US if im not mistaken? Or certain States anyway. And if it has there must be a very good reason for doing so.

lol the UIGEA in the US was cynically piggybacked through the courts along with a completely unrelated law by bible-bashing Christian fundamentalists elements in the US Senate. Work is well underway to get the law repealled.

If you want to go back to the dark ages of religious fundamentallists dictating the laws of the country there's a whole wide expense of Middle East that would be happy to accommodate you.

mikom

Bought a second-hand mattress on Ebay once, if that's classed as online gambling.

dcmu

SV wrote: »

I had a brief period of online gambling..
spent about 2 or 3 grand before I stopped

luckily I managed to though..really feel sorry for your friends, it's incredibly addictive and very hard to get away from..

Fr Billy O'dwyer?

super_furry

darkman2 wrote: »

IMHO Online gambling should be banned seeing what happens first hand.

Why stop with online gambling? Let's throw alcohol in there, tobacco too. Fast food contributes to the growing obesity problem so ban that too.

There's such a thing as personal responsibility.

Cookie_Monster

online gambling is great, keep it up the lot of ya!!

it pays my wages

SugarHigh

As far as I know banning online gambling in the US was a weak attempt at saving a strugling vegas.

darkman2

keane2097 wrote: »

Just because you have two friends who are degenerates is no reason to ban everyone from doing it.

Why do we have to cater the degens rather than the reasonable people?



lol the UIGEA in the US was cynically piggybacked through the courts along with a completely unrelated law by bible-bashing Christian fundamentalists elements in the US Senate. Work is well underway to get the law repealled.

If you want to go back to the dark ages of religious fundamentallists dictating the laws of the country there's a whole wide expense of Middle East that would be happy to accommodate you.

What!? "the dark ages"? lol. These "degens" where decent, honest guys that did well in school. Your not putting forward a valid argument to counter that this is a serious problem. Gambling may have been around forever. Online gambling is still relatively new. I don't think the full consequences will be seen for many years. But make no mistake about it - very bright, intelligent, young people are being sucked into a world where as I said it is just too easy to fcuk your life up. You need to see this first hand. Im tellin yeh. And then see the effects on others.

Herbal Deity

darkman2 wrote: »

I think this is a far bigger problem in the country then you are appreciating. Of course not everyone is going to be an addict but online gambling has already been banned in the US if im not mistaken? Or certain States anyway. And if it has there must be a very good reason for doing so.

Not really. There's not necessarily always a very good reason for enacting a law, and the US aren't exactly a shining light in terms of their laws...

keane2097

darkman2 wrote: »

What!? "the dark ages"? lol. These "degens" where decent, honest guys that did well in school. Your not putting forward a valid argument to counter that this is a serious problem. Gambling may have been around forever. Online gambling is still relatively new. I don't think the full consequences will be seen for many years. But make no mistake about it - very bright, intelligent, young people are being sucked into a world where as I said it is just too easy to fcuk your life up. You need to see this first hand. Im tellin yeh. And then see the effects on others.

There have always been fcuk ups and they have always found ways of fcuking themselves up.

Your friends are just fcuk ups.

Take gambling off them and they'll fcuk up some other way.

keane2097

darkman2 wrote: »

What!? "the dark ages"? lol. These "degens" where decent, honest guys that did well in school. Your not putting forward a valid argument to counter that this is a serious problem. Gambling may have been around forever. Online gambling is still relatively new. I don't think the full consequences will be seen for many years. But make no mistake about it - very bright, intelligent, young people are being sucked into a world where as I said it is just too easy to fcuk your life up. You need to see this first hand. Im tellin yeh. And then see the effects on others.

Oh and lol at the idea that doing well in school counts for absolutely anything in adult life!

darkman2

keane2097 wrote: »

Oh and lol at the idea that doing well in school counts for absolutely anything in adult life!

Nothing else to judge them by since they are young:rolleyes:

keane2097

darkman2 wrote: »

Nothing else to judge them by since they are young:rolleyes:

The fact that they're stealing from their families?

They're old enough to be considered cretins tbh.

Min

I use online gambling services now and again, not that regular, I can see how it can become a serious problem.
It is fine for people who can gamble and be reasonable with their money - only gamble what one is prepared to lose but there are people who should be banned from it and given professional help to stop them destroying their lives and those around them.

It really all depends on what type of person the gambler is, are they likely to get into it in an addictive way or more just a casual thing that they use now and again, lets say for the grand national, on Kilkenny winning the All Ireland.......
But the first rule should be only gamble what one can afford to lose and no more, know when to stop and that is he problem, some don't.

Naos

They found gambling Darkman, not the other way round.

I've got about 30e sitting in a Paddy Power account online, doesn't concern me at all. I put 10e in ages ago because someone had a tip and I said I'd do it for the craic.

Never bothered with the tip and forgot all about it until a few months later when someone gave another tip. I bet and won 20e in a matter of minutes. That was a few months ago and still haven't touched it.

I can go to the dogs once a year and bet there. It's easy for ANYONE to gamle, only the minority get addicted.

super_furry

darkman2 wrote: »

Gambling may have been around forever. Online gambling is still relatively new. I don't think the full consequences will be seen for many years. But make no mistake about it - very bright, intelligent, young people are being sucked into a world where as I said it is just too easy to fcuk your life up. You need to see this first hand. Im tellin yeh. And then see the effects on others.

You can easily replace the word 'gambling' there with alcohol, videogames, food whatever. The point is that people with a compulsive nature will always find something to get hooked on and you can't ban everything to protect them.

fontanalis

Would one of the issues with online gambling be that you don't actually see the "hard cash" being lost?

darkman2

keane2097 wrote: »

The fact that they're stealing from their families?

They're old enough to be considered cretins tbh.

As a consequence of online gambling. Everything wrong happening to them goes back to the gambling...everything.

keane2097

fontanalis wrote: »

Would one of the issues with online gambling be that you don't actually see the "hard cash" being lost?

We better ban online banking as well.

darkman2

keane2097 wrote: »

We better ban online banking as well.

A form of gambling is it?

keane2097

darkman2 wrote: »

As a consequence of online gambling. Everything wrong happening to them goes back to the gambling...everything.

Lies, I gamble and I've never stolen anything from anyone.

Everything wrong happening to them goes back to fcuking character flaws.

I CAALL HIM GAMBLORE!!11!!1!

Prof.Badass

darkman2 wrote: »

I think this is a far bigger problem in the country then you are appreciating. Of course not everyone is going to be an addict but online gambling has already been banned in the US if im not mistaken? Or certain States anyway. And if it has there must be a very good reason for doing so.

:D:D:D:D:D:D

yes...... america are known for being rational when it comes to banning things!

http://www.al.com/news/birminghamnews/metro.ssf?/base/news/1252743369276790.xml&coll=2

:D:D:D:D:D:D


*sniggers



hahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahaahahahaahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahaaha:D

darkman2

keane2097 wrote: »

Lies, I gamble and I've never stolen anything from anyone.

Everything wrong happening to them goes back to fcuking character flaws.

I CAALL HIM GAMBLORE!!11!!1!

If you become addicted to gambling you steal money when your's runs out. I fail to see how you can not put 2 and 2 together. In fact judging by your naievity you seem a prime candidate to actually be an online gambling addict funnily enough.

super_furry

darkman2 wrote: »

As a consequence of online gambling. Everything wrong happening to them goes back to the gambling...everything.

No, everything wrong happening to them goes back to them. And until they take responsibilities for THEIR actions, their problems will continue.

keane2097

darkman2 wrote: »

If you become addicted to gambling you steal money when your's runs out. I fail to see how you can not put 2 and 2 together. In fact judging by your naievity you seem a prime candidate to actually be an online gambling addict funnily enough.

facepalm

We're talking about gambling addicts right, so we have two issues, gambling and addiction.

People can gamble and not be thieving creeps, so the gambling is not the problem, leading us back to the addict.

The problem is the addict and the character flaws that render him unable to control his actions.

Addicts are fcuk ups, take the gambling off them and they'll find some other way to display their flaws.

My name is URL

keane2097 wrote: »

People can gamble and not be thieving creeps, so the gambling is not the problem, leading us back to the addict.

People can be completely addicted to gambling without ever stealing from anybody.. same as how people can be totally reliant on alcohol and still lead a seemingly normal life..

Arnold Layne

The Online Poker is where you can lose a lot of money in very little time. One bad decision could wipe out your balance and it is very easy to top up. It is a person's responsibility to know when to stop, the same with alcohol. The worst time to play online poker is when you're drunk, all reason goes out the window as I have found out to my detriment.

Online gambling in relation to Horse Racing, Soccer, Football, is just a past time for me. But then again, it depends on the person.

SugarHigh

I gamble all the time but I'm not like the other idiots, I have a system.

keane2097

My name is URL wrote: »

People can be completely addicted to gambling without ever stealing from anybody.. same as how people can be totally reliant on alcohol and still lead a seemingly normal life..

So again it's not the alcohol or the gambling or the food or whatever else - it's the addict who chooses whether or not to be a thief.

Blaming the substance is such a cop out.

fontanalis

keane2097 wrote: »

We better ban online banking as well.

Great comparison!

AnonoBoy

I'm ashamed to say that this thread reminded me I needed to throw some bets on for the weekend.

If that 500/1 shot comes in I'm thanking the sh*t out of you OP!

28064212

fontanalis wrote: »

Great comparison!

I don't know whether that was sarcastic or not, but given the context, it is. I can apply for a loan without having to think about the consequences and get into serious financial difficulty without too much trouble. I can deal in shares through it as well, which pretty much is gambling.

OP, here's the problem with your friend: "His family then has to bail him out the rest of the week". He doesn't have to deal with the consequences of his actions. His family is supporting his addiction by allowing it to continue. If he is spending €400 a week on gambling and they're replacing it, which happens first is irrelevant, they may as well just be giving him the money to gamble.

There are about a hundred equally valid things that should be banned if online gambling is. Thousands of people daily get enjoyment out of it without developing a hint of a problem, and most of the ones who do would get their fix by going down to the bookie anyway

fontanalis

28064212 wrote: »

I don't know whether that was sarcastic or not, but given the context, it is. I can apply for a loan without having to think about the consequences and get into serious financial difficulty without too much trouble. I can deal in shares through it as well, which pretty much is gambling.

OP, here's the problem with your friend: "His family then has to bail him out the rest of the week". He doesn't have to deal with the consequences of his actions. His family is supporting his addiction by allowing it to continue. If he is spending €400 a week on gambling and they're replacing it, which happens first is irrelevant, they may as well just be giving him the money to gamble.

There are about a hundred equally valid things that should be banned if online gambling is. Thousands of people daily get enjoyment out of it without developing a hint of a problem, and most of the ones who do would get their fix by going down to the bookie anyway

It was sarcastic, i'll expand on my first comment. If you're playing Poker at a table with a few people you can actually see the money in front of you and what you are spending, likewise in a bookie. Online it's more or less a click of a button. I never said it should be banned but was asking was the psychological/visual aspect maybe a reason why it's easy to get hooked online, then again gambling addiction was around before d'internets.

orourkeda

darkman2 wrote: »

Hi, I know two of my friends are addicted online gamblers. One guy has no money left a few hours after he gets his paycheck (about €400). He has no money to get to work or to buy any food. His family then has to bail him out the rest of the week. This has been going on, to my knowledge, for at least a year. His family is being destroyed over it and im pretty certain he is stealing from them aswell. He owes everyone practically he knows money. He owes me money aswell. It's definately effecting his family. His da does not even talk to him anymore. He has at least one summons for debt to a phone company. He is 20 btw. The other guy is not quite as bad yet but it's almost exactly the same evolution and he is going the same way fast. The former Id expect to be homeless with a month or two.


What to make of it? To be honest I never gave this a thought as to just how life destroying this is. It does not matter how much sense you try to talk into them but they never listen. Sometimes I feel like actually hitting one of them it is so frustrating.

Anybody have this experience with people they know or even themselves?

Summed up in one sentence. Sometimes you have to be cruel to be kind. You just have to hope that they will see sense eventually. It's easier said than done though. Like every other addict they have to do it for themselves and no amount of nagging will stop the. This may be a cliche but it's true

28064212

fontanalis wrote: »

It was sarcastic, i'll expand on my first comment. If you're playing Poker at a table with a few people you can actually see the money in front of you and what you are spending, likewise in a bookie. Online it's more or less a click of a button. I never said it should be banned but was asking was the psychological/visual aspect maybe a reason why it's easy to get hooked online, then again gambling addiction was around before d'internets.

The same as with (certain aspects of) online banking, which was the point you dismissed

Jesus Wept

darkman2 wrote: »

Not for a while. Ive given up on them. You would want to experience what happens for yourself to understand why. They don't listen to you and they just get into more and more trouble.


IMHO Online gambling should be banned seeing what happens first hand. It's seriously bad. My opinion is cause it seems so easy. Don't have to even leave the couch anymore to gamble. Im aware that if computers did not exist in the morning they would be down the bookies anyway but it's too easy IMO.

darkman2 wrote: »

I think this is a far bigger problem in the country then you are appreciating. Of course not everyone is going to be an addict but online gambling has already been banned in the US if im not mistaken? Or certain States anyway.

They didn't ban online gambling, they made it more difficult to fund your online gambling accounts.

No, not everyone is an addict, you're right there.
In the same sense that not everyone who has a drink in an an alcoholic.

Serious question time darkman2, would you bring back prohibition?

darkman2 wrote: »

And if it has there must be a very good reason for doing so.

Yes, money.
The poker industry (relatively new) didn't have the lobbyists that (for example) the horse racing industry does which remained untouched.


The poker industry wasn't greasing the appropriate dodgy wheels = make life difficult for the poker industry until that situation changes.

fontanalis

28064212 wrote: »

The same as with (certain aspects of) online banking, which was the point you dismissed

What aspects do you mean?

Sergeant

Should we ban pubs also because some people have drinking problems? Should we ban fast food joints because some people can't resist the urge to eat 10 kebabs a week?

I presume these individuals are adults. If so, there is a thing called personal responsibility. If they have an addiction, then they need to get appropriate treatment. There is thousands of people in this country who can lodge €50 a month, and play poker, or put a €20 punt on a horse, and leave it at that.


The last thing we need is more nanny state legislation.

Töpher

Hate to break it to you, but your friends are scumbags. Junkies will steal to fund heroin addictions if needs be, and your mates are no better. Some people can use alcohol for recreational purposes, some get hooked and destroy their lives with it. Likewise gambling (online, or offline), or porn, or videogames. Or golf. The list of apparent evils that can consume a persons being is endless.

Their families facilitate their addiction by bankrolling them, my sympathy for them is non-existant.

Although I'm sure the legality of it is questionable, and it's probably a last resort, surely they could have closed some/all of his online accounts? All sites have a responsible gambling policy, and will allow you to close an account cannot reopen for 6 months no matter how much you beg - and if you open another one, they'll close that too.
Surely it couldn't be too difficult for a brother, for example, to call up Paddy Powers, for example, and entertain a conversation similar to the below;

"Hi, I'm Joe Bloggs, I've an online account that I'd like to close please."
"Alright sir, may I ask why?"
"I've lost my job, and cannot afford to risk any more finance."
"Oh, I'm sorry to hear that Joe. Can I have your username please?"
"Of course, it's JoeBloggs, capital J, capital B."
"Thank you, for security reasons I'll need you to confirm your date of birth and home address please."
"My date of birth is 01/01/1857, and I live at 123 Fake Street."
"I need one last piece of information before I can carry out your request. When you registered, you answered the security question 'What is your favourite sports team?', could you give me the secret answer you gave please."
"Eh... United?"

But no, they give him their money to piss away as well as his own, that's a genius solution.

TPD

Herbal Deity wrote: »

Seriously, why is the first thing that anyone ever thinks of as a solution to any problem in this country to ban it?

Your friend needs help because he has a problem. The solution is not to prevent others who can actually manage to gamble as an indulgence in moderation from doing so.

I just wanted this to be on another page, so people entering the thread late will see it.