Powerlifters and Rippetoe fans

kodute

I've been doing SS since Jan, I'm 87kg, 23, 6ft and 3x5 lifts are:
120kg DL
107kg Squat
81kg BP
52kg Press
57.5kg PC

Now my question is how do I maintain these lifts for a month or so while I go off the milk and look to lose a bit of the chub? What should I change routine wise if anything?

After the month or so I'll have my home gym kitted out and either hit up SS again or Advanced novice program to get to my DL to 2xBW and others up similar amounts.

Hanley

Advanced novice??

You shouldn't lose any strength if you diet properly and don't cut too severly. What's your diet like now? What weight are you hoping to get to?

legend365

Just wondering what did you start off with in Jan?

kodute

Hanley wrote: »

Advanced novice??

You shouldn't lose any strength if you diet properly and don't cut too severly. What's your diet like now? What weight are you hoping to get to?

Advanced novice program

Diet is 9am breakfast shake, milk, oats, pnut butter, whey, banana. ~900cals
10.30 nuts and milk
12 Dinner (meat and 2 veg)
2pm nuts and milk
4pm small dinner/big sandwich and milk
6pm banana, whey shake and gym
8pm fish/egg dinner

Weight wise Im not sure, visually I'm probably over 20%BF, never actually measured it. I'll know when to start eating again when the jeans get loose!

Diet wise should I just cut out the milk and keep number of portions?
Are you saying to keep the current program then?

legend365 wrote: »

Just wondering what did you start off with in Jan?

Had done SS before but stopped due to injury.
Before figures:
100kg DL
50kg Squat
60kg BP
42.5kg Press
45kg PC

d'Oracle

kodute wrote: »

After the month or so I'll have my home gym kitted out and either hit up SS again or Advanced novice program to get to my DL to 2xBW and others up similar amounts.

Are you still making gains from session to session?
Have you reset much?

The reason I ask is cos your lifts are around the same as mine, you are an inch shorter than me, 13kg lighter and I haven't had cause to consider quitting the novice progression yet. Hell if I wanted to loose the fat, I'd be looking to get to where you are now.

OK you might not be cool with carrying around the tub like I am, but make sure you aren't selling yourself short by jumping on to intermediate lifting too early.

kodute

d'Oracle wrote: »

Are you still making gains from session to session?
Have you reset much?

The reason I ask is cos your lifts are around the same as mine, you are an inch shorter than me, 13kg lighter and I haven't had cause to consider quitting the novice progression yet. Hell if I wanted to loose the fat, I'd be looking to get to where you are now.

OK you might not be cool with carrying around the tub like I am, but make sure you aren't selling yourself short by jumping on to intermediate lifting too early.

I've stalled once on the Squat, DL and BP. So by Rips method I have one more stall on the Squat to go then progress.

As I said I'm looking at kitting out the home gym, atm I have a light squat rack which won't catch anything if I miss a rep. So once I get the power rack in there I can go higher on the squat without risk.

I think I can go up a few more kgs in the squat alright.
Its not that I mind there being more of me, its just drinking 3 litres of milk a day sucks! So you reckon I should stick with SS a bit longer and forget about this month 'debulk'?

d'Oracle

kodute wrote: »

I've stalled once on the Squat, DL and BP. So by Rips method I have one more stall on the Squat to go then progress.

As I said I'm looking at kitting out the home gym, atm I have a light squat rack which won't catch anything if I miss a rep. So once I get the power rack in there I can go higher on the squat without risk.

I think I can go up a few more kgs in the squat alright.
Its not that I mind there being more of me, its just drinking 3 litres of milk a day sucks! So you reckon I should stick with SS a bit longer and forget about this month 'debulk'?

Er... I'm wary now cos I'm not really in a place to be giving out advice really.
If you don't love the milk it is hard doing the 4L a day. You could stop eating bananas all the time and eat more meat and eggs.

Where did you get the idea that you can only stall twice?
I presume that is from the Wiki which is not Rippetoe, nothing like that is mentioned in the book.
Have you tried resetting to 80% and microloading?

What I'm getting at is that you may be in too much of a hurry to start Intermediate training, when SS will do. I mean Rip has a guy at his gym, (who incidentally has caused one of the biggest internet fitness celebrity wankoffs I have ever seen) who has just moved to Intermediate after 14 months. That makes me think I still have some Linear progression to do.
Think about it, you might feel the same is true for you.

token

There's no harm in going to the advanced novice. It's still linear progression but it's a bit lighter workload per week and may give you the breathing space you need to keep progressing. I did this when I found the orginal SS routine workload to be too much.

Squat 3x5
Press 3x5
Dead 1x5

fsquat 3x3
Bench 3x5
Chin 3xf

Squat 3x5
Press 3x5
powerclean 5x3

*alternate press/bench

kevpants

You've only being doing it since January and already you're looking to cut fat? If you actually want to get someowhere with a strength program you've got to stick with it. Starting out I'd advise against thinking about fat for the first year.

Why is everyone so obsessed with getting any bit of fat off them as quickly as possible as soon as it appears?

You can get rid of fat any time. Best do it in one big effort once a year or so if that's important to you. Cutting fat every 6 weeks is going to leave you wallowing about with Novice programs and wondering why you aren't getting anywhere.

*Get back in your cage Bradpants!!

Sangre

kevpants wrote: »

Why is everyone so obsessed with getting any bit of fat off them as quickly as possible as soon as it appears?

Because a good portion of people exercise to improve their appearance not their athleticism. Obviously extra fat does not help them attain their goal. Of course we all know where this discussion leads!

d'Oracle

Not everybody wants to be a big fat pow............

mrkf1984

if u can lift it today theres no reason why u cant lift it next week cutting or not.its just in your head, unless a severe lack of carbs and bodybuilders diet. but, if u leave if too long inbetween max lifts u will loose strength. i find three weeks without doing a 90-100% lift does lead to losses

token

I'd echo Bradpants somewhat there. I really went to town on the food before Christmas and put on 10kg in 8 weeks. Squat 1RM jumped 25kg in that time so it was worth it. I've lost the fat I put on in another 8 weeks eating Paleo and doing crossfit workouts. 4 month turn around wasn't bad for about 4kg extra muscle and a good chunk of strength. I plan on doing something similar this Winter also. I can handle a bit of extra chub in Winter time but not when beach season is coming up

kevpants

Sangre wrote: »

Because a good portion of people exercise to improve their appearance not their athleticism. Obviously extra fat does not help them attain their goal. Of course we all know where this discussion leads!

I think people need to stop theorising what the best way to achieve the end goal is.

You can't be a slave to two masters.

If you want the nice big shiny muscles to show off you have to grow them first, you can't grow them in a short 6 week burst in between fat loss periods.

All I ever say is that people should not be distracted from their goal of gaining size or strength by changes in fat levels. Fat loss is feckin easy after a year of strength training and eating only beige food.

mrkf1984 wrote: »

if u can lift it today theres no reason why u cant lift it next week cutting or not.its just in your head, unless a severe lack of carbs and bodybuilders diet. but, if u leave if too long inbetween max lifts u will loose strength. i find three weeks without doing a 90-100% lift does lead to losses

If it's in your head how come they have weight classes in weightlifting and powerlifting?

I haven't done a 90-100% lift in 11 months. High intensity training works obviously but you can operate well below 90% year round and pull out PR's pretty easy.

I can rant as much as I want in this thread because it was formally addressed to powerlifters.

G'em, Khannie... prepare yourselves.

g'em

kevpants wrote: »

G'em, Khannie... prepare yourselves.

rant away.... but next time you want to precede your text with a caveat, please write my name right... it's g'em. Little g. LITTLE :pac:

kevpants

g'em wrote: »

rant away.... but next time you want to precede your text with a caveat, please write my name right... it's g'em. Little g. LITTLE :pac:

Don't call me little g. I'm not your homeboy.

kodute

@d'Oracle had a look in your log some good stuff.

@Kevpants Im not worried about looking like a fatty. I want to be hella strong. But I also want to keep some cardio fitness too.

@Sangre appearance is good, athleticism is more important. I'm getting stronger to be better at sports I do for fun. Also lifting weights has its own sick sense of fun! Plus "strong people are harder to kill"

The general advice seems to be keep shoveling the food in and keep going up in the lifts.

kodute

kevpants wrote: »

I can rant as much as I want in this thread because it was formally addressed to powerlifters.

Addressed to powerlifters to keep out the "do 15 reps bicep curls in the mirror and eat only powersauce bars" crowd. Rant on sir, rant on.

d'Oracle

kodute wrote: »

@d'Oracle had a look in your log some good stuff.

Good lord, really?

kodute

d'Oracle wrote: »

Good lord, really?

No, stop fishing for compliments and lift something!

kevpants

kodute wrote: »

@Kevpants Im not worried about looking like a fatty. I want to be hella strong. But I also want to keep some cardio fitness too.


The general advice seems to be keep shoveling the food in and keep going up in the lifts.

That line is pretty much all it is.

Cardio fitness is achieveable by anybody if you are willing to commit to it. I personally don't think about it except for my annual break from strength training because I think it would be a distraction as well as being one more thing to recover from and my powers of recovery aren't great.

You might be different though and be able to handle belting out burpees or rowing or whatever every week but I prefer to focus on that when I'm taking a break form the other stuff. Just the way I approach it.

I think it's Padraig Harrington who was saying that to excel at something you need to take 6 consecutive weeks off from it every year where you concentrate on something else.

Something to think about.

Hanley

kevpants wrote: »

You can get rid of fat any time. Best do it in one big effort once a year or so if that's important to you. Cutting fat every 6 weeks is going to leave you wallowing about with Novice programs and wondering why you aren't getting anywhere.

*Get back in your cage Bradpants!!

I'm with you on this one. I'm too sick to rant, but I can feel the rage building. I might just post before and after photos if people continue to p!ss and moan.



Edit: and you can still be a fat cnut and have a good level of cardio!!

Sangre

kodute wrote: »

@Sangre appearance is good, athleticism is more important. I'm getting stronger to be better at sports I do for fun. Also lifting weights has its own sick sense of fun! Plus "strong people are harder to kill"

Don't look at me, I'm only trying to get strong at the moment too. My log will testify that cardio or HIIT is distinctly lacking for me! I'm almost certainly my heaviest ever.

I was only giving the view of a lot of other people.

mrkf1984

If it's in your head how come they have weight classes in weightlifting and powerlifting?

ya i agree with high intensity too, but are u saying that if u can pull lets say 200kg, then lose 3 kg that u wouldnt be able to lift it then

also are u sayin that you have to be heavy to be strong? i know it helps in the majority but there are plenty of 110kg bodyweight that would out-total some 125kg bw.

d'Oracle

mrkf1984 wrote: »

also are u sayin that you have to be heavy to be strong? i know it helps in the majority but there are plenty of 110kg bodyweight that would out-total some 125kg bw.

Names?

mrkf1984

idfpa records

all 110kg weights are higher than 125kg
bench, squat and dead.

dont know how to post links but check out the website and all records are posted there. the total is almost 100kg more

d'Oracle

mrkf1984 wrote: »

idfpa records

all 110kg weights are higher than 125kg
bench, squat and dead.

dont know how to post links but check out the website and all records are posted there. the total is almost 100kg more

I'll take your word for it. I just wanted to be sure that you weren't making it up.

"There are plenty" is one of those phrases, like "everybody knows" that set off my BS alarm.

I would a however point out that for people who have only been lifting a short while, it is utterly irrelevant what someone with a 200kg Pull can get away with.

mrkf1984

that post about the 200kg pull was aimed for kevpants by the way...dont know how to do that quote thingy either. my bad.

d'Oracle

mrkf1984 wrote: »

that post about the 200kg pull was aimed for kevpants by the way...dont know how to do that quote thingy either. my bad.

You click on the wee button that says quote at the bottom of his post.

kevpants

mrkf1984 wrote: »

ya i agree with high intensity too, but are u saying that if u can pull lets say 200kg, then lose 3 kg that u wouldnt be able to lift it then

also are u sayin that you have to be heavy to be strong? i know it helps in the majority but there are plenty of 110kg bodyweight that would out-total some 125kg bw.

Losing weight affects your strength. You might be able do damage limitation on your squat and deadlift but lose a few kg and watch your bench go to sh1t.

mrkf1984

d'Oracle wrote: »

You click on the wee button that says quote at the bottom of his post.

like this.? it like boards.ie for beginnners

mrkf1984

I dont plan on losing any kg anytime soon. there quite valuable. ya, ur right damage limitation is the best u could hope for

bubbleking

kevpants wrote: »

Losing weight affects your strength. You might be able do damage limitation on your squat and deadlift but lose a few kg and watch your bench go to sh1t.

Losing weight or losing muscle mass?? Iv lost a load of weight (all excess fat) and my bench is stronger then ever

d'Oracle

bubbleking wrote: »

Losing weight or losing muscle mass?? Iv lost a load of weight (all excess fat) and my bench is stronger then ever

You don't count here.
Similarly, neither would I.

Hanley

mrkf1984 wrote: »

idfpa records

all 110kg weights are higher than 125kg
bench, squat and dead.

dont know how to post links but check out the website and all records are posted there. the total is almost 100kg more

The fatal flaw in your argument here is the sample size. The IDFPA doesn't have enough lifters for you to use it as conclusive proof of your argument.

Look at the IPF records, IWF or any other strength fed records with a deep pool of competitors. The heavier weightclasses have higher all time records in 99% of the cases.

If you got to a high level of strength and then lost weight quickly you'd know Kevpants is right. It effects you in a major way if you try to do it too quickly. Hell if effects you in a major way unless you're a hard ass b@stard. Adn that's speaking from personal experience.

Inspector Coptoor

Hanley wrote: »

. It effects you in a major way if you try to do it too quickly. Hell if effects you in a major way unless you're a hard ass b@stard. Adn that's speaking from personal experience.

I concur.

i dropped 2 stone and my benching went from a modest 100kg x 7 to a poor 97.5kg x 4.

deadlift and squat haven't been affected but press and bench are gone through the floor

itsallaboutheL

bubbleking wrote: »

Losing weight or losing muscle mass?? Iv lost a load of weight (all excess fat) and my bench is stronger then ever

Define Strong??

EDIT: and are you saying your bench got stong gradually after you lost the weight?

Inspector Coptoor

itsallaboutheL wrote: »

Define Strong??

yeah, strong for you or strong compared to strong athletes?

d'Oracle

itsallaboutheL wrote: »

Define Strong??

EDIT: and are you saying your bench got stong gradually after you lost the weight?

Liam Henners257 wrote: »

yeah, strong for you or strong compared to strong athletes?

The dude said that his bench is stronger than ever.
I reckon that you can pretty much assume that means he is moving more weight now than he has previously, i.e. he is setting P.R.'s

There is no semantic issue here.

itsallaboutheL

d'Oracle wrote: »

The dude said that his bench is stronger than ever.
I reckon that you can pretty much assume that means he is moving more weight now than he has previously, i.e. he is setting P.R.'s

There is no semantic issue here.

10kg overweight... 80kg max

loses 10kg test max, is now 90kg

Vs

10kg overweight 80kg max

loses 10kg, 4 months later has 90kg max

= Big Difference

Also, the loss is strength is very relative to weight and weight lifted.

Hanley

d'Oracle wrote: »

The dude said that his bench is stronger than ever.
I reckon that you can pretty much assume that means he is moving more weight now than he has previously, i.e. he is setting P.R.'s

There is no semantic issue here.

The weight he's moving is relevant. If it's low he's probably a beginner. It's not hard to lose weight and still make progress at that level.

bubbleking

Hanley wrote: »

The weight he's moving is relevant. If it's low he's probably a beginner. It's not hard to lose weight and still make progress at that level.

yeah there is a lot of truth in that. i used to weigh 88-90kg and could never bench more than 65kg (albeit I wouldnt have been a dedicated lifter). I now weigh 79kg and can bench 73kg - im hoping to improve my bench and drop a few more kilos so im roughly benching my body weight - that would be good enough for me. (im not really big into my lifting at the mo either but try to do it 2/3 times a week

d'Oracle

Hanley wrote: »

The weight he's moving is relevant. If it's low he's probably a beginner. It's not hard to lose weight and still make progress at that level.

Which is largely my point.

Bubbleking is obviously at the beginner level and a quick look at his log indicates that his gains are probably down to more effective training.
So his experience doesn't really carry much weight (pun intended) in a conversation between Kev and some other (possible) powerlifter on the effect of weightloss on bench.

But what odds does how he defines strong or whether or not he compares himself to athletes have to do with all that.
There is no point is getting into the semantics of what Bubbleking means by stronger. It seems like entrapment, or possibly a little internet sh!ttyness.

Hanley

d'Oracle wrote: »

Which is largely my point.

Bubbleking is obviously at the beginner level and a quick look at his log indicates that his gains are probably down to more effective training.
So his experience doesn't really carry much weight (pun intended) in a conversation between Kev and some other (possible) powerlifter on the effect of weightloss on bench.

But what odds does how he defines strong or whether or not he compares himself to athletes have to do with all that.
There is no point is getting into the semantics of what Bubbleking means by stronger. It seems like entrapment, or possibly a little internet sh!ttyness.

Are we going to argue parallel points again??

The impression I got from his post, and would say Liam and L got too is that he was trying to prove you can get stronger and lose weight by giving himself as an example. In order to understand whether or not he had a legitimate argument or not, we needed to know how much weight he was lifting, which is why he was asked.

d'Oracle

Hanley wrote: »

Are we going to argue parallel points again??

The impression I got from his post, and would say Liam and L got too is that he was trying to prove you can get stronger and lose weight by giving himself as an example. In order to understand whether or not he had a legitimate argument or not, we needed to know how much weight he was lifting, which is why he was asked.

I'm not saying he is right, hell I got where you guys were going with this first.
To the best of my knowledge I'm agreeing with you.

I looked at his log and got the info pretty quick.
Hence why I posted this in response:

me wrote:

You don't count here.
Similarly, neither would I.

Its just that "define strong" seems a bit more like someone d!ck measuring than what you are getting at, seeing as he said "stronger than ever".

itsallaboutheL

d'Oracle wrote: »

Its just that "define strong" seems a bit more like someone d!ck measuring

Metaphorically speaking, i wouldn't consider my "dick" (as you so eloquently put it) anywhere near big enough to measure..

However I'm Ever so sorry if my overly efficient use of words offended you in any way...

And as we all know it's not the size of the nail, it's the hammer behind it that counts.:cool:

Hanley

itsallaboutheL wrote: »

And as we all know it's not the size of the nail, it's the hammer behind it that counts.:cool:

I like that.

I'm also a fan of - it's not size of the boat but the motion in the ocean.

itsallaboutheL

Hanley wrote: »

I like that.

I'm also a fan of - it's not size of the boat but the motion in the ocean.

It has double meaning for me, i think i'm gonna try add some decent size... so i'll have a HUUUUUUUGE Hammer :pac:

d'Oracle

itsallaboutheL wrote: »

However I'm Ever so sorry if my overly efficient use of words offended you in any way...

Didn't offend me.
I'm wasn't having a go or anything.
I mean you pick up people on the tone of their posts too.

itsallaboutheL

d'Oracle wrote: »

Didn't offend me.
I'm wasn't having a go or anything.
I mean you pick up people on the tone of their posts too.

QFFT

ragg

lads im about to ramble here so sorry in advance,im not sure what it is im actually asking, hopefully one of you will get what im waffling about and be able to answer me..

Is the strength drop that's experienced when dieting down just down to a lack of fuel, rather then a permanent strength drop? Will your body not get used to running off the alternative fuel sources relatively quickly?
Obviously if you are specifically training for a comp you will **** your recovery by not eating enough..

What I'm asking is, is the strength drop not a very temporary thing to do with changing how and where you get your energy from, or do you actually lose something that you have to work back up to...