Gardai Cleared in Wheelock Case

Gary ITR

http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0310/wheelockt.html

This has been going on for quite some time and the family had been very vocal about the lad being mistreated. I think it was just their refusal to believe that he would take his own life. It's quite a sad story really and I just hope the lessons learned from this case are heeded

minidazzler

the report identified a number of system failures including the failure to remove the cord from his tracksuit

That is NOT a failure, most people would complain if the guards tried to take that cord out, it's fcuking impossible to get back in.

I would agree that it's the family just disbelieving that he would kill himself.

Gary ITR

minidazzler wrote: »

That is NOT a failure, most people would complain if the guards tried to take that cord out, it's fcuking impossible to get back in.

I would agree that it's the family just disbelieving that he would kill himself.

They could give detainees the option of removing the string or their pants. In fairness you can't leave somebody in cell with a string with the excuse that it's impossible to get it back in

Trashbat

minidazzler wrote: »

That is NOT a failure, most people would complain if the guards tried to take that cord out, it's fcuking impossible to get back in.

I would agree that it's the family just disbelieving that he would kill himself.

Most people would complain if being arrested in the first place, to be fair. While removing a cord might be an inconvenience, if it is policy it must be adhered to.

I find this case tricky, obviously in a perfect world, facilities would be there to ensure this doesnt happen. Also have to feel for the family. It may not be a case that there was negligence, but i think at least the family can hope that it will lead to some level of change, in terms of facilities in stations and extra monitoring etc...

General Zod

minidazzler wrote: »

I would agree that it's the family just disbelieving that he would kill himself.

the question that fuels that is "why would he kill himself?".

the family (who knew him best) don't believe he had reason for doing that.

stevenmu

Why does every inquiry in this country have to take so long? This question must be asked. I propose we form a tribunal to examine the length of inquiries and determine how long they should actually last.

Please note that examining actual current or past inquiries will not be within the scope of this tribunal, which is limited to a more general overview of of best practices for inquiries from around the world, which will allow the nation going forward to engage in inquiries in a competitive manner on the world stage on an ongoing basis.

Gary ITR

General Zod wrote: »

the question that fuels that is "why would he kill himself?".

the family (who knew him best) don't believe he had reason for doing that.

But isn't that the case with a huge amount of suicide cases?

General Zod

Onkle wrote: »

But isn't that the case with a huge amount of suicide cases?

Well, not exactly. there wasn't a history of depression, or extenuating circumstances that occur in alot of suicide cases. I know all families will ask "Why?" but there doesn';t appear to be any explination in this case.

the keen edge

General Zod wrote: »

Well, not exactly. there wasn't a history of depression, or extenuating circumstances that occur in alot of suicide cases. I know all families will ask "Why?" but there doesn';t appear to be any explination in this case.

I know nothing of this case, but was he not detained in connection with the stealing of a car, just a normal daily event in ones life eh?

Its sad to say, but your post says volumes about the state of our society

genericguy

around that time there was a spate of suicides in my own area, all of which were members of a group who would have had similar interests to terence, i.e. joyriding. now i'm no rocket scientist...

General Zod

the keen edge wrote: »

I know nothing of this case

I've only said that the family believe there may be more to it, that there wasn't anything to suggest he was suicidal.

I have not passed judgement on anyone nor assumed that the facts aren't what have been presented.

General Zod

genericguy wrote: »

around that time there was a spate of suicides in my own area, all of which were members of a group who would have had similar interests to terence, i.e. joyriding. now i'm no rocket scientist...

Nor are you a psychologist. Correlation does not imply causation.

minidazzler

General Zod wrote: »

I've only said that the family believe there may be more to it, that there wasn't anything to suggest he was suicidal.

I have not passed judgement on anyone nor assumed that the facts aren't what have been presented.

Families rarely know their brother/sister/son/daughter, as well as they think they do.

genericguy

General Zod wrote: »

Nor are you a psychologist. Correlation does not imply causation.

really? because ireland is run on that basis :pac:

if the tracksuit warriors wanna wipe themselves out they should be left to it. they should stop blaming the gardaí, he wouldn't have been arrested if he had not been in a stolen car, and therefore the issue would never have arisen if he had been raised right.

the keen edge

General Zod wrote: »

I've only said that the family believe there may be more to it, that there wasn't anything to suggest he was suicidal.

I have not passed judgement on anyone nor assumed that the facts aren't what have been presented.

I was not disagreeing with your post, and yes there may have been more to it, as I said I know nothing with regard to the details of this case.

All I'am saying is that, some people(and I didn't say, or mean to imply you) seem to gloss over the fact that this guy was detained/arrested in connection with a stolen car, as if, or maybe because, it's seen as no big thing by those angered by the circumstances of his death.

General Zod

the keen edge wrote: »

I was not disagreeing with your post, and yes there may have been more to it, as I said I know nothing with regard to the details of this case.

All I'am saying is that, some people(and I didn't say, or mean to imply you) seem to gloss over the fact that this guy was detained/arrested in connection with a stolen car, as if, or maybe because, it's seen as no big thing by those angered by the circumstances of his death.

the family have never questioned what he was doing to be arrested.

As to some of the other replies... Tracksuit warriors? FFS regardless of the reason he was in the cell he died in Gardai custody and it's only right and proer that these things are investigated to the fullest. the gardai are not above the law, then have to be the best example of the law itself.

the keen edge

General Zod wrote: »

the family have never questioned what he was doing to be arrested.

As to some of the other replies... Tracksuit warriors? FFS regardless of the reason he was in the cell he died in Gardai custody and it's only right and proer that these things are investigated to the fullest. the gardai are not above the law, then have to be the best example of the law itself.

Again, I never mentioned his family only, some of those who were angered by the circumstances of his death.

Will you now give me my dues and acknowledge that the content of my original post was in no way erroneous, and only a unbiased view on the general attitude, from some sections of society towards crime?.

General Zod

I can't extrapolate the views of society on crime from one incident, especially when the family and friends in this case have never disputed why he was arrested in the first place.

the keen edge

For some reason you seem to be unable or maybe unwilling to acknowledge the legitimate content of my posts. I have re read all the relevant posts and I find it hard to ascertain why this is so. To my mind I have neither posted erronoius facts nor hearsay assertions, leading me to beleive that you simply just disagree with my views and opinions but lack the ability to counter my points with any thing other then waffle. Waffle that in places no way relates to the individual points I put forward.

With this in mind I have decide to create a multi-quoted post. Throughout this post we can examine each of the prior posts, made by yourself and myself, and then hopefully come to some agreement.

the keen edge wrote: »

I know nothing of this case, but was he not detained in connection with the stealing of a car, just a normal daily event in ones life eh?

Its sad to say, but your post says volumes about the state of our society

Here I set out my stall so to speak, stating that I nothing (maybe I should of said I know a little) of the case in question.
In this part "just a normal daily event in ones life eh?", I jokingly suggest that being arrested in connection with a stolen car is a every day occurrence. Is it reasonable to assume that this is not so, that in fact those who are involved in stealing car, or at at least travel in stolen cars would represent a small percentage of the population, combined to the fact that it is against the law. I think it is safe to say that this is not "just a normal everyday event in ones life"
Would you also agree that people whom commit (I hate that word) suicide, do so at a time of desperation and anxiety in their life?. I think that I can state that if not as fact, then as a common trait of these poor people.

Therefore I would think it fair of myself, to suggest that and the actives of Mr Wheellock, and the circumstances that he found himself in were unusual, in the hours prior to him being found unconscious in the jail cell.

General Zod wrote: »

I've only said that the family believe there may be more to it, that there wasn't anything to suggest he was suicidal.

I have not passed judgement on anyone nor assumed that the facts aren't what have been presented.

I agree that it is entirely possible that there could be more to the events at the Gardai station, but this is no reason to discount the preceding events as unusual .

Or.

Do you still take issue with the observation I made of your post with regard to my perscption of people glossing over the points I have set out above, surely not.

the keen edge wrote: »

I was not disagreeing with your post, and yes there may have been more to it, as I said I know nothing with regard to the details of this case.

All I'am saying is that, some people(and I didn't say, or mean to imply you) seem to gloss over the fact that this guy was detained/arrested in connection with a stolen car, as if, or maybe because, it's seen as no big thing by those angered by the circumstances of his death.

Explains itself. Do you agreee?

General Zod wrote: »

the family have never questioned what he was doing to be arrested.

Where did I mention his family? It is a laughable point anyway. How could they question it?

the keen edge wrote: »

Again, I never mentioned his family only, some of those who were angered by the circumstances of his death.

Will you now give me my dues and acknowledge that the content of my original post was in no way erroneous, and only a unbiased view on the general attitude, from some sections of society towards crime?.

Pretty straight forward here too. Do you agree?

General Zod wrote: »

I can't extrapolate the views of society on crime from one incident, especially when the family and friends in this case have never disputed why he was arrested in the first place.

You can't extrapolate the views of society on crime from one incident. I wasn't suggesting you should, this is after all Boards, hardly the Rapture.


My Dues Sir??;)

yogy

He was a joy riding scumbag. It sounds harsh but I can call him that because

a) he was a joy rider

b) only scumbags joy ride.

Now he's a dead, joyriding scumbag replaced no doubt by hundreds of fresh faced joy riding scumbags.

Was there any mention of drugs in his system? Maybe he was having a very bad withdrawl from some smack or out of his head on some mighty fine crack. Just maybe.

But at the end of the day he was someone's brother, son, uncle etc. and a tragic waste of life regardless of how many cars may have been saved in the process..

Mike 1972

yogy wrote: »

He was a joy riding scumbag.

Did he have any convictions for vehicle thieft or related offences ?

cafecolour

I met a lad in a bar once who was convinced that the Gardai would 'stage' suicides like this for lads they arrested that they took a disliking to. I'd say he's having a field day with this one.

Helix

Onkle wrote: »

They could give detainees the option of removing the string or their pants. In fairness you can't leave somebody in cell with a string with the excuse that it's impossible to get it back in

if youre gonna kill yourself with the string in your bottoms, youre gonna be able to do it with the bottoms themselves too. shall we just strip them all nekkid?

pasha75

It is a tragedy when any person dies especially in circumstances when he is in the custody of the state and questions should always be asked and invited. However some of the coverage was witch hunt in its tone instead of inquiring and showed that a lot of the more vocal seemed interested more in getting a dig in at the Gardai rather that examining the facts. When people feel they are not getting a fair shake they withdraw from open dialogue.

genericguy

Helix wrote: »

if youre gonna kill yourself with the string in your bottoms, youre gonna be able to do it with the bottoms themselves too. shall we just strip them all nekkid?

strip them naked and parade them up o connell street while whipping them in front of everyone on a saturday afternoon. then they won't commit suicide in cells, nor will they be so quick to go joyriding again.