Ryanair confirm that Dublin will not get the remaining 300 jobs

gandalf

This just on breaking news.

Ryanair have said all the 500 maintenance jobs the airline offered to create in Dublin have now been lost to other airports.

The company revealed last month that 200 of the positions were being located at Prestwick Airport in Glasgow.

The airline offered to base the 300 remaining jobs at Dublin Airport if the Government helped the carrier acquire Hangar 6 which is occupied by Aer Lingus.

However Ryanair spokesman Stephen McNamara has said the Government has failed to secure the jobs.

Story here

What an abject failure by this government especially with the news that Aer Lingus are contemplating large job cuts. Ever have the feeling the so-called government have backed the wrong horse!

vodafoneproblem

Failure of government, sure, but Michael O'Leary has also shown himself to be an asshole by playing with people's hopes and lives with this issue just to make the government look incompetent. I've totally lost respect for him over this. Some Irishman you are, O'Leary.

gandalf

vodafoneproblem wrote: »

Failure of government, sure, but Michael O'Leary has also shown himself to be an asshole by playing with people's hopes and lives with this issue just to make the government look incompetent. I've totally lost respect for him over this. Some Irishman you are, O'Leary.

Is O'Leary being an asshole news? Not really we already knew that.

I agree he has been a tosspot for the way he announced it but Aer Lingus will not be using Hanger 6 for the purpose it was built which is heavy maintenance. The patriots in EI gave that business to the French. They want to use it for general maintenance and office space.

I look forward to what the Gov spin doctors have to say about this. Calamity Mary should not be allowed to darken the doorway of any Government Department following the reshuffle after this "Hanger 6 Disaster".

zootroid

deadtiger wrote: »

Is O'Leary being an asshole news? Not really we already knew that.

I agree he has been a tosspot for the way he announced it but Aer Lingus will not be using Hanger 6 for the purpose it was built which is heavy maintenance. The patriots in EI gave that business to the French. They want to use it for general maintenance and office space.

I look forward to what the Gov spin doctors have to say about this. Calamity Mary should not be allowed to darken the doorway of any Government Department following the reshuffle after this "Hanger 6 Disaster".

Unfortunately it looks as though she'll keep her job. Either she's a favourite of Cowen, or moving her on would be akin to admitting he has made a mistake. And he could never do a thing like that!! The only other thing is revamping her department for her so that she doesn't have as much responsibility.

bamboozle

zootroid wrote: »

Unfortunately it looks as though she'll keep her job. Either she's a favourite of Cowen, or moving her on would be akin to admitting he has made a mistake. And he could never do a thing like that!! The only other thing is revamping her department for her so that she doesn't have as much responsibility.

she's a favourite of Cowan.
She's pathetic, has been and will be as long as this role is left in her hands.
how she has not requested a root and branch examination of FAS is still beyond me, how she got away with leaving the FAS report on advertising expenditure on her desk untouched between June when she received it and Sept when she published it...on the same day NAMA details were made public. SHe is also the minister who signed off on the outragous retirement package given to Cowan's tullamore buddy Roddy Molloy.
in my mind she is a threat to the creation of jobs in this country.

Taxipete29

vodafoneproblem wrote: »

Failure of government, sure, but Michael O'Leary has also shown himself to be an asshole by playing with people's hopes and lives with this issue just to make the government look incompetent. I've totally lost respect for him over this. Some Irishman you are, O'Leary.

What a load of rubbish. He tries to create jobs in this country and gets no support from the Govt and then we have people spouting crap like the above.
I wonder why he bothered in the first place.

The Scottish bent over backwards for those 200 jobs. We should of done the same.

vodafoneproblem

Taxipete29 wrote: »

What a load of rubbish. He tries to create jobs in this country and gets no support from the Govt and then we have people spouting crap like the above.
I wonder why he bothered in the first place.

The Scottish bent over backwards for those 200 jobs. We should of done the same.

He was given other options to give the country those jobs. Link. Yes, they should have facilitated him, but if he gave a toss about the country like he claims to, he could have done it another way. Wouldn't be the first time he'd be taking the longer route to a desired destination, eh?

average_runner

What you he mean he got no support, the bloody government offer to build them a brand new more modern Hanger!

What more do you want?

The goverment were right to do what they did, Ireland wont turn the corner by giving into people like that.

Ireland is slowly turning now, IT Sector has picked up big time.

Taxipete29

average_runner wrote: »

What you he mean he got no support, the bloody government offer to build them a brand new more modern Hanger!

What more do you want?

The goverment were right to do what they did, Ireland wont turn the corner by giving into people like that.

Ireland is slowly turning now, IT Sector has picked up big time.

Source for the IT sector picking up???

Taxipete29

vodafoneproblem wrote: »

He was given other options to give the country those jobs. Link. Yes, they should have facilitated him, but if he gave a toss about the country like he claims to, he could have done it another way. Wouldn't be the first time he'd be taking the longer route to a desired destination, eh?

What the Govt consider options and what MOL consider options are 2 different things. They obviously didnt suit his plans. You forget that people like MOL hold all the aces now. Without investment and jobs Ireland is sunk yet we just throw them away

average_runner

Source look at the market and you get your source. Everyone that I knew and more that were out of job last year all got somethng by October.

One or two companies i know of laid off a few a txmas and all had a pick of jobs in January.

gandalf

average_runner wrote: »

What you he mean he got no support, the bloody government offer to build them a brand new more modern Hanger!

What more do you want?

Why build a new facility when there is one there not being utilised to its full potential by a company that is in decline and some say terminal decline who could be about to shed 1,100 jobs?

The goverment were right to do what they did, Ireland wont turn the corner by giving into people like that.

The bad news for everyone is we need to facilitate people like that to ensure we get people off the dole queue.

Ireland is slowly turning now, IT Sector has picked up big time.

The IT sector has not picked up big time as you say. I work in it there has been a very slight upturn but things will not pick up big time until we see proper credit running to SME's in this country and we are nowhere near that eventuality yet.

vodafoneproblem

Taxipete29 wrote: »

What the Govt consider options and what MOL consider options are 2 different things. They obviously didnt suit his plans. You forget that people like MOL hold all the aces now. Without investment and jobs Ireland is sunk yet we just throw them away

No, I don't forget that at all. I would have thought he'd have a bit more loyalty to his country in these difficult economic times, though. It all smacked of him playing games to me, weeks ago. Except, unlike his usual PR stunts, this one wasn't at all funny.

By the way, I'm not a member of any political party. I'm just an ordinary punter who occasionally flies Ryanair. I'll be a bit more reluctant to do so after this public self-pleasuring to the detriment of Ireland by O'Leary, though. Yes, the Tanaiste is a bit of a useless tit but that doesn't mean O'Leary has to copy her.

Mad_Max

average_runner wrote: »

Ireland is slowly turning now, IT Sector has picked up big time.

Didn't get that memo. Time to go ask for my pay cuts back so! :rolleyes:

average_runner

DeadTiger consider this:

I have a contract to lease a 4 bed house paying the full price agreed on the contract and jsut me living in it.

Now you come along and say well i have 4 people that could fully occupied that house, should i get kicked out?

Answer is NO,

So if the landlord then said to you i build you a new house all mods & cons same rent would you take that instead? Of course you would

The Hanger is leased out to someone else, who is meeting all its obligations on the payment of it. [EMAIL="O@Leary"]O@Leary[/EMAIL] had no intention on bringing the jobs to Ireland and as soon as you realise that, the better

gandalf

vodafoneproblem wrote: »

No, I don't forget that at all. I would have thought he'd have a bit more loyalty to his country in these difficult economic times, though. It all smacked of him playing games to me, weeks ago. Except, unlike his usual PR stunts, this one wasn't at all funny.

Yes I would have thought our National Airline would have had a bit more patriotism as well. But they gave the work for the type of jobs Ryanair was offering to France. :rolleyes:

Ryanair gave us the option of retaining highly skilled engineering jobs in Dublin and a proper negotiator probably would have been able to come to some sort of compromise. Remember this whole scenario started last summer it only became public in the last couple of months. What the Hell was MC doing since last summer to ensure these highly valued positions would come to Ireland. Nothing, its only when it became public and she and the Government were shamed into action that anything did happen.

As I said already if this was an American Call Centre employing 300 people at minimum wage they would have been all over it like a dirty rash.

average_runner

You answered your own question.

For anyone else the goverment would bend over backwards for, but why is that? Does this not tell you that O'Leary wasnt for real???

gandalf

average_runner wrote: »

DeadTiger consider this:

I have a contract to lease a 4 bed house paying the full price agreed on the contract and jsut me living in it.

Now you come along and say well i have 4 people that could fully occupied that house, should i get kicked out?

Answer is NO,

So if the landlord then said to you i build you a new house all mods & cons same rent would you take that instead? Of course you would

The Hanger is leased out to someone else, who is meeting all its obligations on the payment of it. O@Leary had no intention on bringing the jobs to Ireland and as soon as you realise that, the better

Consider this Ryanair and the Government own between them over 50% of Aer Lingus shares. They could have done this if they wanted. For 300 extra high paying jobs I would have ensured they got what they wanted.

gandalf

average_runner wrote: »

You answered your own question.

For anyone else the goverment would bend over backwards for, but why is that? Does this not tell you that O'Leary wasnt for real???

No it tells me that we have idiots running this country.

vodafoneproblem

deadtiger wrote: »

Yes I would have thought our National Airline would have had a bit more patriotism as well. But they gave the work for the type of jobs Ryanair was offering to France. :rolleyes:

Ryanair gave us the option of retaining highly skilled engineering jobs in Dublin and a proper negotiator probably would have been able to come to some sort of compromise. Remember this whole scenario started last summer it only became public in the last couple of months. What the Hell was MC doing since last summer to ensure these highly valued positions would come to Ireland. Nothing, its only when it became public and she and the Government were shamed into action that anything did happen.

As I said already if this was an American Call Centre employing 300 people at minimum wage they would have been all over it like a dirty rash.

Just because Mary Coughlan wants to stick her head in the fire doen't mean O'Leary has to do the same. It's our country, not the government's. Or maybe it goes with the name. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mrs._O'Leary's_Cow. Mrs O'Leary, indeed!

average_runner

I think your the only idiot mate!!

Consider what you jsut said. Ie The goverment will deal with any one but O'Leary, is this because O'leary is not reliable dodgy or something???

So it must be something about O'Leary that people dont trust and would you do business with someone you dont trust????

Grumpypants

I'm amazed so many people fell for this. He never had any intention of giving those 300 jobs to Ireland. He knew that he couldnt get the hanger but that if he jumped up and down and made a fuss it would make the goverment/DAA look bad.

If he cared about jobs in Ireland then he would'nt have pulled all those planes out of Shannon/Cork/Dublin that cost far more than 300 jobs.

He will now go to another european country that will build him a brand new hanger just like the one the irish goverment would build him.

O leary always has an alterior motive anyone that thinks other wise isnt a great judge of character.

gandalf

average_runner wrote: »

I think your the only idiot mate!!

Consider what you jsut said. Ie The goverment will deal with any one but O'Leary, is this because O'leary is not reliable dodgy or something???

So it must be something about O'Leary that people dont trust and would you do business with someone you dont trust????

Firstly I have reported your personal insult. I never personalised the argument with you and I would have expected the same courtesy from you.

O'Leary is a successful businessman running one of the few profitable airlines in the world so I have to respect him for that. Now I contrast his achievements with the shower that are in government here and I know who I would have more confidence in doing business with.

Now let me clarify something else. I do not like O'Leary as a person and I find the way he conducts himself quite distasteful but I have the good sense to see beyond that and realise that Ryanair is a successful business and our leaders be they Politicians, the DAA or the IDA should have ensured that Ryanair were accommodated to secure 500 initially highly paid skilled jobs at Dublin Airport. Also to clarify I avoid flying Ryanair unless I have to because I don't like their service but it is exactly what they advertise and they make money doing it.

average_runner

Report me, how do you know your not insulting a member of my immediate family or me?

Also could you tell me which goverment in any country would you work with since they all messed up?

Head The Wall

average_runner wrote: »

Report me, how do you know your not insulting a member of my immediate family or me?

Also could you tell me which goverment in any country would you work with since they all messed up?

He's not telling lies if they are, look at the state the country is in!!

vodafoneproblem

average_runner wrote: »

Report me, how do you know your not insulting a member of my immediate family or me?

Funnily enough, I sort of got that impression. I think you boys should call it evens and move on.

It'll be interesting to see how O'Leary gets treated at the next big national occasion he shows up to.

average_runner

All forgiven, I move on!!

Laminations

average_runner wrote: »

DeadTiger consider this:

I have a contract to lease a 4 bed house paying the full price agreed on the contract and jsut me living in it.

Now you come along and say well i have 4 people that could fully occupied that house, should i get kicked out?

Answer is NO,

So if the landlord then said to you i build you a new house all mods & cons same rent would you take that instead? Of course you would

The Hanger is leased out to someone else, who is meeting all its obligations on the payment of it. O@Leary had no intention on bringing the jobs to Ireland and as soon as you realise that, the better

This isn't simple occupancy figures, its proper utilisation of state resources - and job creation. Although I dont think regular contracts should or could be broken, this contract should never have been made, and the government could have acted as proxy for ryanair and added to that used their shareholding to remove EI from the contract. What is the point in them holding a strategic interest in EI?

Mr. Incognito

Sweet Lord. Things have become even more entrenched and ill informed of late.

Here's what happened:

Ryanair write to Coughlin's office offering her as a mediator to broker a deal to lease the Hanger as the DAA were held guilty in court of showing bias towards Ryanair competitors and they didn't want to deal with them without an arbitrator.

Coughlin declines, stating that commercial matters should be settled between the commercial parties.

Ryanair point out jobs are at stake and she should really get off her back side.

Coughlin tells Ryanair to take a hike.

Ryanair give jobs to Scotland. Publishes correspondence between department and themselves.

Coughlin panics and declares that they could still have Shannon or Knock??? to service the aircraft. A fleet of hundreds requiring huge heavy maintance?? Terrible PR stunt that is totally transparent and meaningless.

The thinking in DAA/ Government circles was that Ryanair wanted hanger 6 to convert it to a separate terminal. This is press and paranoia as the DAA own the building and material alterations would never be possible under a leasehold.

The fact is Coughlin dropped the ball. She is a teacher totally out of her depth with NO business experience. She's doesn't walk the walk, talk the talk and in fact hides in her office hoping everything will sort itself out. The fact is she is the Minister for ENTERPRISE in a recession and is neither Enterprising, Competent or even bothered says a lot. I don't care about Ryanair now. Jobs are gone. I care about blame.

Coughlin's record:

Dell indicate they are pulling out. Sits on hands. Dell pull out. Flies out to beg at last minute. Pointless.

Cadbury get's taken over. Sits on hands. Waiting at moment for them to cut jobs so she can get an emergency flight to beg instead of being proactive declaring that it is an internal commercial decision at the moment. By contrast the UK Minister was on the first flight out.

Coughlin is a waste of space. The sooner she retires, gets pushed, has a terminal scandal the better. If she had any decency she'd resign.

murphaph

vodafoneproblem wrote: »

He was given other options to give the country those jobs. Link. Yes, they should have facilitated him, but if he gave a toss about the country like he claims to, he could have done it another way. Wouldn't be the first time he'd be taking the longer route to a desired destination, eh?

O'Leary is a wealthy man. He doesn't have to live in Mullingar and pay tax in Ireland, that's right, he is fully tax resident and pays all his income tax in the state (unlike many in his position, Dennis O'Brien etc.). He is more patriotic than a lot of people with his freedom not to be. O'Leary is the sort of man who will dig Ireland out of recession, not SIPTU and ICTU and that lot. They weren't just 300 ordinary jobs either, they were skilled jobs that Ireland can not afford to turn away! It could have led to much more in time too. As it stands we have skilled Irish technicians working on contracts all over the world instead of doing it in Dublin (and paying tax there). I know 2 such techs myself, they'd KILL to be able to work in Ireland.

Sponge Bob

Bad as O Leary can be he is 100 times more valuable to Ireland than Coughlan will ever be.

I hope she gets reshuffled straight to hell for her ineptitude and incompetence.

No more junior social workers in important jobs in future, OK

Laminations

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

Coughlin's record:

Dell indicate they are pulling out. Sits on hands. Dell pull out. Flies out to beg at last minute. Pointless.

Cadbury get's taken over. Sits on hands. Waiting at moment for them to cut jobs so she can get an emergency flight to beg instead of being proactive declaring that it is an internal commercial decision at the moment. By contrast the UK Minister was on the first flight out.

Coughlin is a waste of space. The sooner she retires, gets pushed, has a terminal scandal the better. If she had any decency she'd resign.

You left out her potty mouth. Watching The Frontline last night and there was a businessman who went with her on a trade mission saying she was an embarrassment.

I dont particularly like MO'L but I do respect his tax compliance , he has more patriotism than many millionaires... and think he was genuine in bringing these jobs here.

hinault

Coughlans way out of her depth.

hinault

Laminations wrote: »

You left out her potty mouth. Watching The Frontline last night and there was a businessman who went with her on a trade mission saying she was an embarrassment.

I dont particularly like MO'L but I do respect his tax compliance , he has more patriotism than many millionaires... and think he was genuine in bringing these jobs here.

She is an embarrasment : none of the IDA delegations want her to accompany them on their trips because she puts her foot in it each and every time.

She's incompetent.
And she is so incompetent that she fails to realise that her very presence does not engender confidence with either our own people or with the people she is meeting on behalf of this country.

She should have been dismissed 2 years ago.

murphaph

hinault wrote: »

She is an embarrasment : none of the IDA delegations want her to accompany them on their trips because she puts her foot in it each and every time.

She's incompetent.
And she is so incompetent that she fails to realise that her very presence does not engender confidence with either our own people or with the people she is meeting on behalf of this country.

She should have been dismissed 2 years ago.

It says a lot more about her boss that she's in that job than it does about her. He's an even bigger waster. Lenihan is the only one with half a notion and he's made a few clangers as well!

hinault

murphaph wrote: »

It says a lot more about her boss that she's in that job than it does about her. He's an even bigger waster. Lenihan is the only one with half a notion and he's made a few clangers as well!

Cowen should have been dismissed also.

Private sector standards need to be applied to the govt/public sector, in terms of redress for pisspoor performance.

Failure to perform, requires being fired.

MaceFace

Sweary Mary has to go, not just from the cabinet, but politics. I never cease to be amazed by how some people continue to get elected.

As for O Leary - he's a cute hoor.
He is a brilliant business man with amazing talent and he knows how to milk the system every time, but don't think for a second that he has anyone else in mind except himself when he speaks to the media.
If Aer Lingus were told to vacate the hangar, there is no doubt he would have demanded it for a very low price.

He tries to be the man of the people with his dress code and take away coffee rushing away to a taxi, but he is no different than any other business man in Ireland.

amacachi

To anyone saying "if he cared about the country he'd have the jobs here anyway", the wages are going to be much higher here than anywhere else and he was willing to have that extra cost as long as the government did what other governments were willing to do. But they weren't and the jobs are gone.
Seeing people like her in her job just proves democracy doesn't work.

Mad_Max

Worst part is that wagon has nearly 8 years in a ministerial position.

She doesn't need to get elected anymore. She could walk away now with a beautiful tax-free lumpsum and a gi-normous pension.

Neither of which her record indicates she deserves.

maninasia

Laminations wrote: »

You left out her potty mouth. Watching The Frontline last night and there was a businessman who went with her on a trade mission saying she was an embarrassment.

I dont particularly like MO'L but I do respect his tax compliance , he has more patriotism than many millionaires... and think he was genuine in bringing these jobs here.

MOL doesn't have an engaging personality, but he heads a major international company who were willing to invest and hire 500 workers, if they got what they wanted. So the government should just have given them what they wanted in this case. Might not feel good for some people but that was the right thing to do to get the economy moving.
And yes, MOL lives in Ireland and contributes stacks of tax to the country and has built a large multinational that is still hq'ed in Ireland...not too many Irish businessmen have done that.

dogbert27

average_runner wrote: »

DeadTiger consider this:

I have a contract to lease a 4 bed house paying the full price agreed on the contract and jsut me living in it.

Now you come along and say well i have 4 people that could fully occupied that house, should i get kicked out?

Answer is NO,

So if the landlord then said to you i build you a new house all mods & cons same rent would you take that instead? Of course you would

In this example the landlord is also responsible for social housing (creating jobs).

Okay, so one person, you (aer lingus), had a contract for the 4 bedroomed house. You are clearly not utilising the 4 bedroomed house for it's intended purposes. You could easily adapt to a 1 bedroom apartment.

If the landlord had a backbone to utilise the clause that is in your contract, i.e. that he can move you on for strategical means to the betterment of his business, then he would move you to the 1 bedroom apartment and move the 4 people into the 4 bedroom house.

Instead the spineless landlord offered the 4 people the 1 bedroom apartment or the alternative of building them a new house with no timeline on completion and nowhere for them to live in the time being.

While this is going on the 4 people tell the landlord that they really want to give him the rent money (create jobs to the economy) but unless he can give them what they require now, a 4 bedroom house, they will be forced to move on to somewhere else with a landlord who will give them what they want, now, and will happily take the rent money.

Landlord becomes indignant to the fact that they are being dictated terms and conditions by tenants and tells them no deal. 4 tenants say fair enough we tried and move on.

So instead of landlord having 5 tenants (employed people) utilising resources as they should be used he's left with 1 tenant in a 4 bedroom house who is contributing a lot less rent (money to the economy). Who is at fault in this scenario, the landlord or the 4 tenants?

For me the landlord cut his nose off to spite his face.

neilthefunkeone

average_runner wrote: »

DeadTiger consider this:

I have a contract to lease a 4 bed house paying the full price agreed on the contract and jsut me living in it.

Now you come along and say well i have 4 people that could fully occupied that house, should i get kicked out?

Answer is NO,

So if the landlord then said to you i build you a new house all mods & cons same rent would you take that instead? Of course you would

The Hanger is leased out to someone else, who is meeting all its obligations on the payment of it. [EMAIL="O@Leary"]O@Leary[/EMAIL] had no intention on bringing the jobs to Ireland and as soon as you realise that, the better

Ryanair asked for the hanger 9 months before Aerlingus got it..

Pics taken 3 weeks ago are on ryanairs website of the hanger sitting empty and unused..

Think the gov could have really stuck their neck out on this occasion and sorted it.. Then at least MOL couldnt say the gov arent trying to save us out of this sh1thole of a state were in...

AlekSmart

Ryanair asked for the hanger 9 months before Aerlingus got it..

Herein lies the real unexplained aspect of this issue.

Lets forget about whether we need to find O`Leary likeable or not,in this context we don`t.

What really has emerged from this is the lack of any real business acumen at Government level,something which was starkly revealed by the questioning of BOTH AerLingus and Ryanair at the Daíl Committee hearings.

The origins of this shabby tale lie far back in the pre TEAM Aer Lingus days when some of the then omnipotent North County Dublin Politicians decided to get involved in the Hangar 6 business initially.

Thus we saw the transformation of Aer Lingus Maintenance & Engineering into the funky new TEAM,which was going to wipe the floor in Avation Maintenance.

Sadly for thousands of people,that prospect never really gained height and after the various changes of ownership we saw SR Technic deal the final blow without as much as a whimper from the once bullish Government.

Irish Government attitudes towards the Aviation industry generally have always been suspect.
Back in the days when Frank Aiken or Dev himself merited a guard of honour as they flew to,or arrived from London we really saw Aer Lingus as the firm evidence of our having come of age in World terms.

Perhaps Frank Zappa was on the money when he opined about a "Real" Country needing a Football Team and a Drink before it could claim respectability...In our case,as GAA was not globally appreciated we settled for an Airline !

Our Government appear to be firmly set against allowing Aviation to flourish as an industry in Ireland.
The Mc Evaddy brothers have had several major proposals for Dublin Airport based development roundly dismissed and even now we see Weston Aerodrome having to mount a major offensive to be regarded as a postive element in Irish employment terms.

I`m still aligning myself with O `Leary on this,and his remarks about Mary C being able to jet off to California to beseech departing IT Industries are little less than the absolute truth.

The entire Hangar 6 saga is but an all too public depiction of a Government unable to function in the National Interest.