Is this possible?

largepants

I was low on Diesel yesterday so I pulled into a garage and put €20 into the car. I left the keys in the ignition so the young lad could listen to the radio. Therefore the fuel guage didn't go up because the car was fully switched off. Normal enough. I drove home and didn't bother about the guage not moving.

I got into the car this morning and the guage still had not moved. Is it possible for the pump to pump the fuel without it any going into the car?

I did call into the garage this morning but didn't say anything then as I thought the fuel guage might be faulty.

I didn't get a receipt off the garage and I have to put more fuel in the car today so I can make it home. Has anyone had any similar stories?

Saab Ed

All Renaults do this if you dont switch off the ignition when you're putting the fuel in. I dont know about other cars!

largepants

Saab Ed wrote: »

All Renaults do this if you dont switch off the ignition when you're putting the fuel in. I dont know about other cars!

Yes but should the guage have moved when I turned on the ignition this morning? Thats the way it has always been on mine. I drive a Peugeot by the way.

T-Maxx

Just curious, but why didn't you just fill up yesterday whilst you were there, instead of having to go there again this morning and seemingly having to go there again this evening on your way home?

largepants

T-Maxx wrote: »

Just curious, but why didn't you just fill up yesterday whilst you were there, instead of having to go there again this morning and seemingly having to go there again this evening on your way home?

The reason I didn't fill it up yesterday ( I usally do) is that all I had was 20 euro cash on me. I am awaiting my laser card from my bank as the last one broke in half. I pass the garage on my way to work everyday anyway and usually call in to get De Paper (Examiner).

mullingar

I seen this before,

Just top up the tank with another €5+ and it will reset

largepants

mullingar wrote: »

I seen this before,

Just top up the tank with another €5+ and it will reset

Will do Mullingar. Thanks for that. Was hoping it might be something like that. Will do that on the way home this evening.

Atomic Pineapple

Yeh it has happened me too, I fill the car to the brim with petrol and the guage went to zero and didn't come back to normal for several days, possibly after another fill

no1beemerfan

Saab Ed wrote: »

All Renaults do this if you dont switch off the ignition when you're putting the fuel in. I dont know about other cars!

My Laguna must be special though! If I've someone in the car with me I usually leave it running and I can see the fuel level thingy-ma-jing rise as I fill it!

Anan1

Once you fill the car today you'll know whether the €20 fuel from yesterday made it into your tank.

Nonoperational

99% certain the fuel did go in. Happens to me the odd time. Sometimes if i open the fuel filler cap there is a little release of air and it works again.

Mc Love

In BMW, you can leave the car on and see the fuel gauge rising

Martron

no1beemerfan wrote: »

My Laguna must be special though! If I've someone in the car with me I usually leave it running and I can see the fuel level thingy-ma-jing rise as I fill it!

??????? leave the car running when refuelling? hmmmmmm

no1beemerfan

Martron wrote: »

??????? leave the car running when refuelling? hmmmmmm

And sometimes I'm on my mobile :eek:

bongi69

no1beemerfan wrote: »

My Laguna must be special though! If I've someone in the car with me I usually leave it running and I can see the fuel level thingy-ma-jing rise as I fill it!

Please put a warning sign up when you're doing this so the rest of us can stay well away. Leaving the engine running while fuelling can be dangerous. The signs up in the garage aren't there for fun.

no1beemerfan

bongi69 wrote: »

Please put a warning sign up when you're doing this so the rest of us can stay well away. Leaving the engine running while fuelling can be dangerous. The signs up in the garage aren't there for fun.

Can you point me to something that went wrong (in the real world)? I've been doing it for ten years at least and I wasn't joking when I said I've been on my mobile, the car running and me refulling. The refill hole is always on the opposite side of the exhaust so if you over fill petrol can't flow down the side of the car and land on the exhaust.


@ OP sorry for going off topic...it wasn't my intention!

Pkiernan

bongi69 wrote: »

Please put a warning sign up when you're doing this so the rest of us can stay well away. Leaving the engine running while fuelling can be dangerous. The signs up in the garage aren't there for fun.

It is not dangerous to leave a car running whilst filling up the tank on most cars.

A running car is no more a potential ignition source than a car that has just been switched off.

If there is a chance that fuel could come into contact with a hot engine manifold, then there is a slight chance of combustion, but only slight. Even then, a car that has just been switched off will still be as hot as one that is running.

dirtydiesel

It used to happen on my omega if I left ignition on or if fuel level was very low and I only put a tenner in.

bongi69

bongi69 wrote: »

Please put a warning sign up when you're doing this so the rest of us can stay well away. Leaving the engine running while fuelling can be dangerous. The signs up in the garage aren't there for fun.

I often do it as well, it is not dangerous nor is using a mobile while filling fuel.

My gauge will rise also when its on and you can also see the miles to next fuel stop shooting up .

Jip

I thought everyone watches Mythbusters

They couldn't get an ignition when trying all sorts so the garage is hardly going to blow up when someone is on their mobile.

However if you're wearing cheap clothes that cause alot of static as you exit your vehicle you're a bloody fire hazard !

Mc Love

In some petrol stations they actually announce over the tannoy that you cant use your mobile on the forecourt.

Saw it before. A lady was using her mobile and they anounced it and everyone in the petrol station and shop were looking at her while she went a bit red ha ha

Jip

Doesn't matter how they announce it, nothing will happen. If I was that lady I'd continue on with the phone call regardless and if anything was said to me afterwards I'd be looking for the proof.

Typewriter

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gHB5pGG71ks

Jip

Did you listen to that report ? There was no mention of the phone being the cause but static electricity from getting in and out, like I said.

GTE

Jip wrote: »

Doesn't matter how they announce it, nothing will happen. If I was that lady I'd continue on with the phone call regardless and if anything was said to me afterwards I'd be looking for the proof.

Id hope they switch the pump off if you are gonna be in a mood like that. :rolleyes:

The station offers a service for you but they have some rules, just follow them and dont make such a big deal out of something so tiny as switching the car off or stopping a conversation.

I work at a service station and I do switch off pumps when people are on phones or leave their cars running. Whether there is a book of scientific data proving or disproving it I dont really care, the fact of the matter is its a condition you are asked to follow when filling up in most if not all service stations.

wildefalcon

As the opening poster was filling up with diesel then the risk was very low.

Diesel isn't terribly prone to spontaneous combustion, it has to be heated to ignite. And older diesels are mostly mechanical, so there are much fewer sources of sparks.

Petrol, on the other hand, IS dangerous.

It would be unusual for circumstances to be such to cause an explosion, from static, or from a switch arcing, or the brushes in the alternator sparking.

Those circumstances would be a build up of a air/fuel mix in a fairly confined space.



It is possible though.

I really doubt that a mobile would cause a spark in normal use. Switching one off, or removing the battery, MAY cause a spark.

Mind you - the rules are there for a safety purpose, and it is an easy step to take to eliminate a risk. And, of course if you work at a fillng station then the exposure to the risk is more prolonged.

WildeFalcon

Jip

I'm not making a big deal over anything, the person on the tannoy was the one making the big deal.

MarkN

no1beemerfan wrote: »

The refill hole is always on the opposite side of the exhaust so if you over fill petrol can't flow down the side of the car and land on the exhaust.

PMSL

Have you ever seen a car with something like this before?

bbk

bbk wrote: »

Id hope they switch the pump off if you are gonna be in a mood like that. :rolleyes:

The station offers a service for you but they have some rules, just follow them and dont make such a big deal out of something so tiny as switching the car off or stopping a conversation.

I work at a service station and I do switch off pumps when people are on phones or leave their cars running. Whether there is a book of scientific data proving or disproving it I dont really care, the fact of the matter is its a condition you are asked to follow when filling up in most if not all service stations.

Someone turned off the pump on me one when I was on the phone before I was not too pleased at all and I told them as much also.

Its an absoulte joke stopping the pump for people on the phone or having the car running. Sure cars are always driving around other cars filling petrol which is the same thing. You know it can damage a turbo to switch off the car so quickly after driving which is why some people fill up with the car on. I just do it as I dont feel the need to always turn off my car.

As I have said before how I have often spilled petrol on the hot exhaust of the lawnmower and nothing happened.

no1beemerfan

MarkN wrote: »

PMSL

Have you ever seen a car with something like this before?

I was talking about the majority of cars out there!

GTE

Adriana Whispering Mint wrote: »

Someone turned off the pump on me one when I was on the phone before I was not too pleased at all and I told them as much also.

Its an absoulte joke stopping the pump for people on the phone or having the car running. Sure cars are always driving around other cars filling petrol which is the same thing. You know it can damage a turbo to switch off the car so quickly after driving which is why some people fill up with the car on. I just do it as I dont feel the need to always turn off my car.

As I have said before how I have often spilled petrol on the hot exhaust of the lawnmower and nothing happened.

Nox, what was the point of that post besides your comment about the turbo cool down period?


With regards to the turbo cool down time most of the stories about that come from old school turbo diesel trucking (and buses, my old school bus driver went on about this too).
Think of it, they are pulling heavy loads and are using about 70% and upwards of the engines power most of the time and that heats things up a lot.

A modern car isnt like that. Some VW diesel gurus say that if you are on the highway for a long period of time you are using about 30% of the power. If you then come to a complete stop you are looking at 10 to 20 seconds of cool down time in the Summer, or the same amount of time that it takes to pull up to a pump. Set the handbrake, get your wallet, undo your seatbelt and then switch the engine off. That amount is even less so if you have to slow down when approaching the stop or station and a little less again in winter.

A further comment went on to say that some old cars (83 Mitsubishi jeep of some sort) included a feature that would tell the driver to keep the engine on for a minute or more before switching off.

These warnings havent been in turbo cars for a long time it seems, all I have found is mythical yeti talk. The reason for this is said to be the use of synthetic oils that do not clog the turbo lines when exposed to a constant heat when the oil pump goes off as well as advances in the quality of metal used in the engine. The whole problem about turbo cool down is that mineral oils burn and clog up the oil feeds, so when you start the engine up the turbo isnt getting the correct amount of oil if any at all for longer.

Interestingly the new 2.0 FSI from VW has a water cooled turbo which has a feature that in certain circumstances the water pump will remain on for up to 15 minutes after the engine has been switched off.

So there is evidence that manufactures knew about the problem in the 80's and did something about it for a while, but its only now with these madly tuned engines that something needs to be done about it again.

Even with petrol cars which do have higher operating temps the average slow down into a service station after being in boost for a long period of time is long enough.

L1011

I'm nearly certain the SI that legalised self-service fuel stations specifically makes it illegal to fill a running vehicle....

No such ban on mobiles exists.

bbk

bbk wrote: »

Nox, what was the point of that post besides your comment about the turbo cool down period?


With regards to the turbo cool down time most of the stories about that come from old school turbo diesel trucking (and buses, my old school bus driver went on about this too).
Think of it, they are pulling heavy loads and are using about 70% and upwards of the engines power most of the time and that heats things up a lot.

A modern car isnt like that. Some VW diesel gurus say that if you are on the highway for a long period of time you are using about 30% of the power. If you then come to a complete stop you are looking at 10 to 20 seconds of cool down time in the Summer, or the same amount of time that it takes to pull up to a pump. Set the handbrake, get your wallet, undo your seatbelt and then switch the engine off. That amount is even less so if you have to slow down when approaching the stop or station and a little less again in winter.

A further comment went on to say that some old cars (83 Mitsubishi jeep of some sort) included a feature that would tell the driver to keep the engine on for a minute or more before switching off.

These warnings havent been in turbo cars for a long time it seems, all I have found is mythical yeti talk. The reason for this is said to be the use of synthetic oils that do not clog the turbo lines when exposed to a constant heat when the oil pump goes off as well as advances in the quality of metal used in the engine. The whole problem about turbo cool down is that mineral oils burn and clog up the oil feeds, so when you start the engine up the turbo isnt getting the correct amount of oil if any at all for longer.

Interestingly the new 2.0 FSI from VW has a water cooled turbo which has a feature that in certain circumstances the water pump will remain on for up to 15 minutes after the engine has been switched off.

So there is evidence that manufactures knew about the problem in the 80's and did something about it for a while, but its only now with these madly tuned engines that something needs to be done about it again.

Even with petrol cars which do have higher operating temps the average slow down into a service station after being in boost for a long period of time is long enough.

I had modified turbo cars in mind when I mentioned turbos, which would be running high boost and would be more prone to problems from not allowing enough time before turning off.

The main point of the post though was that I don't think petrol stations should be coming up with pointless rules about phones and filling up with the engine running when it does nothing but make uninformed people think its true.

GTE

Then if you have a modified turbo then let it cool down, it doesnt give a person any sort of exemption just because they have a modded engine. Infact thats a downright piggish thing to assume.

It is not unreasonable what they ask and to be honest many people would die not giving a crap about having to switch that pesky engine off when they fill up.
Although its not a rule that they have just come up recently like you seem to think, you best live with it, no point venting your displeasure on the person in the shop who shut your pump down. 9 times out of 10 they really dont give a damn lol

EDIT:
One of the things that has come out recentlyish is that pump manufactures do not want to sell pumps with auto fill features anymore. You may still find them as the lifespan of a typical pump is rather long but new pumps were installed where I work in the last year and the rep made a point of mentioning that they wont be coming with the little catch that lets you autofill.

Guy:Incognito

Adriana Whispering Mint wrote: »

Someone turned off the pump on me one when I was on the phone before I was not too pleased at all and I told them as much also.

Its an absoulte joke stopping the pump for people on the phone or having the car running. Sure cars are always driving around other cars filling petrol which is the same thing. You know it can damage a turbo to switch off the car so quickly after driving which is why some people fill up with the car on. I just do it as I dont feel the need to always turn off my car.

As I have said before how I have often spilled petrol on the hot exhaust of the lawnmower and nothing happened.

What about the security issue of leaving the car running while you go to pay?

Tbh I know its not the best idea but I'm pretty lax when it comes to taking out the key and locking the car in situations like running into the shop for something quick or paying for petrol. I suppose it comes from living in the middle of the country side where we always leave the keys in the car at home.

While I usually do turn off the car while filling petrol I rarely take the key but I almost always use smaller country filling stations so its safe enough.

largepants

Ok ot sorted with the guage. Stuck another 20 in it on the way home and it all then registered onn the guage.

As a matter of interest I didn't actually have the car running while filling the car. I just had the keys in the ignition and turned so the young lad could listen to the radio.

Voodoomelon

Mc Love wrote: »

In BMW, you can leave the car on and see the fuel gauge rising

Indeed, if I watch the "Range" counter through the back window on the screen, you can see it count upwards in km as the tank fills up.

ShayK1

no1beemerfan wrote: »

And sometimes I'm on my mobile :eek:

and having a fag too???

congo_90

Glad to see op gauge is back working.
As for this ot discussion of mobiles etc...
I got the pump turned off for texting while filling up.. fair enough me thinks. It's their pump so their rules imo.

Having said that i've accidentally dropped a cigarette into a petrol spillage before, spilled petrol on the lawnmower before but i generally wait a min or 2 before filling to allow cooling
As for filling car with engine running.. A tad silly but not overly dangerous. I'm sure there's some science behind it.

Glad to see auto-fills going. They're the big risk in pump fires.

Fizman

no1beemerfan wrote: »

And sometimes I'm on my mobile :eek:

ShayK1 wrote: »

and having a fag too???

Thought of this straight away.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2xXaYj33F0A

Go to 2:30. :pac:

bbk

bbk wrote: »

EDIT:
One of the things that has come out recentlyish is that pump manufactures do not want to sell pumps with auto fill features anymore. You may still find them as the lifespan of a typical pump is rather long but new pumps were installed where I work in the last year and the rep made a point of mentioning that they wont be coming with the little catch that lets you autofill.

This is also a joke of an introduction. Having to hold onto the the nossel while you fill 50 or 60 euro of petrol into the car. Luckly I keep an empty bottle in the boot which I jam into the handle to keep it going so I have auto fill either way !!

Mr.Boots

I cant believe how many TWATS are on here saying they do as they like while filling the car.
Its such a childish attitude "Nobodys gonna tell me what to do"
Its an attitude that seems to exist in a certain section of Irish socity.
Lads if you want to play with petrol and phones and running engines....do it in the comfort of you own home...and not anywhere near my family...even if it is only the smallest of risks....
Dont feel you have to break all the rules to be a man.

Hagar

That mobile phone nonsense is just that, nonsense. Wasn't it reavealed that a couple of hundred Shell garages had mobile phone reapeater masts, way more powerful than a handset, concealed in the big price signs? Link Daily Mail.

Jip

Mr.Boots wrote: »

I cant believe how many TWATS are on here saying they do as they like while filling the car.
Its such a childish attitude "Nobodys gonna tell me what to do"
Its an attitude that seems to exist in a certain section of Irish socity.
Lads if you want to play with petrol and phones and running engines....do it in the comfort of you own home...and not anywhere near my family...even if it is only the smallest of risks....
Dont feel you have to break all the rules to be a man.

I'd love to, but being a twat and all that (isn't that personal abuse) I can't figure out how to get the running engine into my house, can you help ? BTW, do you and your family normally hang around petrol stations ?

mgbgt1978

Just to let the OP know... this happens a lot on my xsara picasso (same engine and electrics as your car). the car's computer only ever checks the reading from the fuel tank when you turn off the engine. if you put in e20 or less sometimes it doesn't notice a big enough change in fuel level to make it alter the fuel gauge.
Also when you are driving the computer drops the fuel gauge by assessing how much fuel you are using rather than what the sender in the fuel tank is registering.
As fuel prices increase you will notice this happening more and more.....e20 is buying you less fuel every month.
By the way modern forecourt pumps will only register what they deliver.
hope this helps.

L1011

bbk wrote: »

EDIT:
One of the things that has come out recentlyish is that pump manufactures do not want to sell pumps with auto fill features anymore. You may still find them as the lifespan of a typical pump is rather long but new pumps were installed where I work in the last year and the rep made a point of mentioning that they wont be coming with the little catch that lets you autofill.

These are also illegal for petrol here - but not for diesel and I've only seen the catch intact on car diesel pumps in one station in the entire country - and I get around!

Voodoomelon

Mr.Boots wrote: »

I cant believe how many TWATS are on here saying they do as they like while filling the car.
Its such a childish attitude "Nobodys gonna tell me what to do"
Its an attitude that seems to exist in a certain section of Irish socity.
Lads if you want to play with petrol and phones and running engines....do it in the comfort of you own home...and not anywhere near my family...even if it is only the smallest of risks....
Dont feel you have to break all the rules to be a man.

Although I do not condone having your engine on while filling up, there is no harm in doing so, otherwise you wouldn't be able to drive your car in or out of the station in the first place.

And the mobile phone usage is a myth, most fires are caused by the static electricity in your clothes. If you want to be completely safe, leave the phone at home, fill a jerrycan up at the station in the nip and fill the car up on the roadside as fellow drivers beep at the sight of your bare arse.

Mr.Boots

Ok so like we all know,at petrol stations while cars are being filled mobile phones dont start fires, and neither do cars with their engines running.
Im guessing but dont offically know the reason.....
If you leave the car running and kids or dog in the car while filling (as ive seen people do many times) the gearstick could get a knock putting it into gear and lurching the car foreword causing nozzle to be pulled from tank, other people filling up to get hit, car hitting pumps ect ect.
If you on the phone while filling up....then i guess its like driving...your not concentrating properly, i guess the thinking behiend it is...petrol is volatile and demands your concentration.
In all fairness they dont make these rules up for fun....its just to protect themselves and the public from the the few idiots out there who will do something stupid.

Gary ITR

Mr.Boots wrote: »

Ok so like we all know,at petrol stations while cars are being filled mobile phones dont start fires, and neither do cars with their engines running.
Im guessing but dont offically know the reason.....
If you leave the car running and kids or dog in the car while filling (as ive seen people do many times) the gearstick could get a knock putting it into gear and lurching the car foreword causing nozzle to be pulled from tank, other people filling up to get hit, car hitting pumps ect ect.
If you on the phone while filling up....then i guess its like driving...your not concentrating properly, i guess the thinking behiend it is...petrol is volatile and demands your concentration.
In all fairness they dont make these rules up for fun....its just to protect themselves and the public from the the few idiots out there who will do something stupid.

An area manager for a large group of Service Stations told me the mobile phone thing was down to them thinking that the signal interfered with the electronic counter. However I have no idea if there is any truth in this whatsoever

largepants

mgbgt1978 wrote: »

Just to let the OP know... this happens a lot on my xsara picasso (same engine and electrics as your car). the car's computer only ever checks the reading from the fuel tank when you turn off the engine. if you put in e20 or less sometimes it doesn't notice a big enough change in fuel level to make it alter the fuel gauge.
Also when you are driving the computer drops the fuel gauge by assessing how much fuel you are using rather than what the sender in the fuel tank is registering.
As fuel prices increase you will notice this happening more and more.....e20 is buying you less fuel every month.
By the way modern forecourt pumps will only register what they deliver.
hope this helps.

Excellent stuff. I remember having left the keys in the ignition (not running) if the family were in the car but I usually always fill the car. Thats why I didn't realise the issue this time after only putting 20e in.

It'll serve me well in the future. Thinking of changing and seriously considering going French. Some might say I'm mad but sure there you go.