Is cannabis an 'intoxicant?'

doh777

Is cannabis an 'intoxicant?'

epgc3fyqirnbsx

In what context?

In a legal context its a prohibited substance and so an intoxicant.

Scientifically I'm not so sure

artanevilla

Here you are: http://lmgtfy.com/?q=+Is+cannabis+an+%27intoxicant%3F%27+

Yes.

TPD

I prefer to think of it as an 'intoxican'

Cheap Thrills!

only if you're doin it right.

doh777

could i argue the case of it not being so to such an extent as to be capable of having proper control of a vehicle?

Sofiztikated

Cheap Thrills! wrote: »

only if you're doin it right.

I fail to see how you can "do" cannabis wrong, though.

Yes, it is an intoxicant, and personally, I'd smoke over drinking any day of the week.

doh777 wrote:

argue..blah, blah, blah.

IF you did that, you'd make a **** hot lawyer. No, more than likely not, seeing as it is a)illegal and b)as much a hazard to driving as drinking.

I'm a smoker, and trying to pilot a car after smoking is, quite frankly, a stupid (and mildly terrifying) thing to do.

I'm guessing you got caught, and are trying to wrangle your way out. Well, here's some news, chap. Take any and all punishment you get, as it's stupidness like that that keeps the anti drugs crowd on the upper footing.

c0rk3r

You due a date in court ? Don't argue anything. Take your punishment and seem remorseful. You;ll get a slap on the wrist

Cheap Thrills!

doh777 wrote: »

could i argue the case of it not being so to such an extent as to be capable of having proper control of a vehicle?

What a great idea! You should insist on being your own defence as well. You can call yourself as an 'expert witness' ..

Mr Yellow

Depends how baked you are!

Bring along a Happy cake for the judge, he might see the funny side of things...

Think theres a law....? If your under the influence of drugs or alcohol!!

Collie D

doh777 wrote: »

could i argue the case of it not being so to such an extent as to be capable of having proper control of a vehicle?

I never get people who do that? You are over the limit after one pint (more or less) and most people nowadays won't have that one pint but would smoke and drive? Personally speaking, one joint would have me more wrecked than one pint ever would.

doh777

might go with username in use.

doh777

for sophisticated

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/1068625.stm

Mike 1972

doh777 wrote: »

Is cannabis an 'intoxicant?'

Is the Pope a bear ?

Do Catholics take a dump in the woods ?

TPD

Mike 1972 wrote: »

Is the Pope a bear ?

Do Catholics take a dump in the woods ?

Not if the Pope's about, that's just asking for trouble.

Sofiztikated

Back at you doh777

Pete Henshall of the Legalise Cannabis Alliance, which is a British political party, said: "Any person who is not in full control of their body should not drive, be it through tiredness, alcohol, cannabis or drugs.

And the the best bit of that link,

The volunteers either smoked ready-rolled cannabis joints or rolled their own with resin supplied under government licence.

Under government licence! How'd you think they advertised this?

WANTED: People to get biffed, and go for a spin. Must have own skins. No experience necessary.

Why do I never see adverts like that.

doh777

Okay, thank you for all the replies people. Each one helped.

InkSlinger67

Sofiztikated wrote: »

I fail to see how you can "do" cannabis wrong, though.

Cousin of mine once took it as a suppository. His ass isn't too good at table quizzes now

seanybiker

ha one of me mates lost his license for drug driving. He was completely wasted though.

TheZohanS

doh777 wrote: »

Okay, thank you for all the replies people. Each one helped.

Were you caught driving whilst stoned?

drunkmonkey

How do you prove how stoned someone is? Do these guys caught smoking and driving burst into giggles when they roll down the window to a Garda?

c0rk3r

They smell it. Search your car and you. If they find anything or suspect you of drug driving they will arrest you and take a blood sample at the station. So i believe

Mr Yellow

drunkmonkey wrote: »

How do you prove how stoned someone is? Do these guys caught smoking and driving burst into giggles when they roll down the window to a Garda?

A fishtank of smoke is a dead give away....! :cool:

Username-in-use - "so you believe"??? ha

Mike 1972

Username-in-use wrote: »

they will arrest you and take a blood sample at the station.

Given that the stuff is detectable for at least a couple of weeks could one be done for "drug driving" when one is actually stone cold sober ?

How does it work in places like the Netherlands. Do they have a legal limit like they do for alcohol ?

drunkmonkey

Mike 1972 wrote: »

Given that the stuff is detectable for at least a couple of weeks could one be done for "drug driving" when one is actually stone cold sober ?

It's not going to happen but that's the argument i'd be using if I was ever caught stoned while driving.

Is there an irish law that says somewhere if your under the influence of drugs and you tell that to a Garda you can then ask them to leave your alone incase you have a bad trip and end up with a mental problem? That was the rumour on the playground back in the day.

doh777

I was caught yes.

My issue is/was that i am being charged with

"driving under the influence of an intoxicant to such an extent as to be incapable of having proper control of the vehicle".

I believe I was capable of having proper control.

Another charge is

"that I drove a vehicle without due care and attention".

The reason I was stopped was that I broke a red light (slowly) on a deserted stretch of road at 4 in the morning. Nothing reckless or without due care and attention. I had smoked that evening. It is the smell or perhaps dilated pupils that will arouse their suspicion. You are then searched, if they find anything incriminating you are arrested on suspicion of DUI and/or possesion and brought down to the local station for a blood or urine test. Your choice.

If you are stopped and they don't find anything I think they can then ask you to come down to the station of your own free will. They are not arresting officially. That specific situation is not clear to me. They suspect but perhaps don't have the "executive?" power to arrest without physical proof on the spot. They cannot breathalyse for cannabis. You might then be free to go, not sure.

Hank_Jones

It's definitely an intoxicant.

I would think it is pretty much on the same level as alcohol. (Except it's a lot cheaper to get high)

El Weirdo

doh777 wrote: »

Is cannabis an 'intoxicant?'

I'll let you know in about 20 mins...

drunkmonkey

doh777 wrote: »

I was caught yes.

My issue is/was that i am being charged with

"driving under the influence of an intoxicant to such an extent as to be incapable of having proper control of the vehicle".

I believe I was capable of having proper control.

Another charge is

"that I drove a vehicle without due care and attention".

The reason I was stopped was that I broke a red light (slowly) on a deserted stretch of road at 4 in the morning. Nothing reckless or with out due care and attention. I had smoked that evening but not much. It is the smell or perhaps dilated pupils that will arouse their suspicion. You are then searched, if they find anything you are arrested on suspicion of DUI and brought down to the local station for a blood or urine test. Your choice.

If you are stopped and they don't find anything I think they can then ask you to come down to the station of your own free will. They are not arresting officially. That specific situation is not clear to me. They suspect but perhaps don't have the "executive?" power to arrest without physical proof on the spot. They cannot breathalyse for cannabis. You might then be free to go, not sure.

How did they prove you were under the influence, did they ask had you been smoking and you said yes? Did you have pot on you or in the car?

I can't see how they found out you were stoned unless you told them.

I'm not condoning what you did, breaking a red light at 4 in the morning is a serious offence, I just can't figure out how they thought you were stoned when you say you weren't.

El Weirdo

doh777 wrote: »

Is cannabis an 'intoxicant?'

El Weirdo wrote: »

I'll let you know in about 20 mins...

Yes.



Sorry I'm late.

doh777

I had been smoking. I believe to no great effect of my functionality. I had 2 mates in the car, drunk and stoned. I was stopped. The usual questions. Had I been drinking etc. I was breathalysed, passed no problem. It came to them 'suspecting' me of drug driving (what it's called), whether through the appearance of my pupils, a smell, a nervous tic, I don't know. They then said we were to be searched, one by one. I was found to have marijuana on me. It went from there.

anonymous_joe

doh777 wrote: »

I had been smoking. I believe to no great effect of my functionality. I had 2 mates in the car, drunk and stoned. I was stopped. The usual questions. Had I been drinking etc. I was breathalysed, passed no problem. It came to them 'suspecting' me of drug driving (what it's called), whether through the appearance of my pupils, a smell, a nervous tic, I don't know. They then said we were to be searched, one by one. I was found to have marijuana on me. It went from there.

That's like arguing 'I'd had four pints, but I felt grand.'

Driving while taking anything's fairly retarded. Christ, driving after taking strong pain killers can be a bad idea.

Anyway, driving while intoxicated in any way can get you in a lot of trouble. Get a good solicitor.

Gurgle

drunkmonkey wrote: »

breaking a red light at 4 in the morning is a serious offence

:rolleyes:
Its not really all that serious, is it?
I'd be a little more concerned about the 'driving while wasted' business myself.

drunkmonkey

doh777 wrote: »

I had been smoking. I believe to no great effect of my functionality. I had 2 mates in the car, drunk and stoned. I was stopped. The usual questions. Had I been drinking etc. I was breathalysed, passed no problem. It came to them 'suspecting' me of drug driving (what it's called), whether through the appearance of my pupils, a smell, a nervous tic, I don't know. They then said we were to be searched, one by one. I was found to have marijuana on me. It went from there.

Get a good solicitor that's maybe on your side, best of luck with it, don't know if reading this is any use to you, might give you and idea or 2, I like the cross examination idea http://www.askaboutmoney.com/showthread.php?t=105552 bounce it off your solicitor.

doh777

I have learnt. I do not condone my actions. I was in the wrong and I should have known better. It won't happen again. Too much grief.

My issue initially was with the wording of the offences, relating to undue care and attention and to such an extent as to be incapable. But that's neither here nor there now.

Bottom line is if you're going to drive, do it compos mentis.

drunkmonkey

Sitec wrote: »

If even the coppers notice your stoned you were abviously in a bad way

Can you define stoned in time, hour 1, hour 2, hour 3, ?? Now the quality of what he was smoking also has to play a part (think shandy, wine, whiskey), there are so many variables. It's not right that he faces a worse faith that someone caught driving after a bottle of vodka, they are not the same thing.

uprising2

OP have a look at your options here, or ask on the forum, somebody will help you out.
http://freemanireland.ning.com/

http://api.ning.com/files/CtyW7YBi6gqGENfsC-P6hAzUF5x9ZCltMeX-BRbXSfyY0VLebNsTPzQQ0Igs3UAqxTXNLBKEDHF8ZbT9KJHwjIO6aD8RKc*J/GuidetobeingaFreemanFinalv2.pdf

http://api.ning.com/files/bnJSKgCEBQxXL70Ed6VyvU4Sew*2UtGdHkLCvVwxa7-AQFOMCVE8j4qymyYHFJF0Uk57tJs-aAW8aAEzQ4WUA4vNbxmjllEq/courtsurvivalguide.pdf

starbelgrade

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Can you define stoned in time, hour 1, hour 2, hour 3, ?? Now the quality of what he was smoking also has to play a part (think shandy, wine, whiskey), there are so many variables. It's not right that he faces a worse faith that someone caught driving after a bottle of vodka, they are not the same thing.

I know a dude who could drive perfectly well after a bottle a vodka, but a spliff would knock him sideways. I could smoke all day & still have no trouble driving.

In either case, it doesn't make it right, or any better or worse than the other.

doh777

thanks drunkmonkey for the link.

4 years? I didn't know that.

Regarding my level of being stoned it can't be compared to being drunk, taking into consideration motor skills, ability to walk a line. I spoke to the guards clearly and politely on the night in question. I was lucid.

I don't have a solicitor lined up. The date is tomorrow. If I could argue the case using the donegal situation, concerning the medical bureau;s inability to provide concentration.

Inquitus

Did you get blood / urine tested and found to be under the influence of cannabis?

Did you admit to the Garda you were stoned?

If not, then you are only in the hole for possession. Being in possession and driving a car does not equate to a drug driving offence. Admitting to the Garda you were stoned can also be argued away, however providing a positive test for cannabis while driving will lose you your license.

c0rk3r

doh777 wrote: »

If I could argue the case using the mulligar situation, concerning levels.

At the very best this can be considered naive, at the worst there isnt a gauge big enough to measure the sheer stupidity of what you;ll attempt to do. With regards to drugs people here tend to blur the lines between an online AH debate and the actual reality of the situation you’re in. Put simply in reality, real life society drugs are not tolerated. All you have to do is look at last week, when the loophole with regards selling drugs in headshops masked as bath salts and such was plugged. When you start waffling about prohibition and scientific studies infront of a judge he will tear you to shreds. You may even piss him off enough to impose a higher sentence.

This is your life not some anonymous AH pro-drugs sympathic users. Be sensible and realistic. Say nothing, take your punishment

Inquitus

Unless they have tested you positive for driving under the influence of drugs, deny everything and take a slap on the wrist for possession and keep your license, if you have tested positive for driving stoned, be contrite and hope for the best.

drunkmonkey

doh777 wrote: »

I don't have a solicitor lined up. The date is tomorrow. .

Get up early and get a solicitor, take them in the summons. You do need some professional help on this.

I don't know what you said in your statement to the Officers that could have a huge influence on what happens. Did they also do a blood test, was it proven you had pot in your system?

From what you said previously you are being "charged with driving under the influence of an intoxicant to such an extent as to be incapable of having proper control of the vehicle".

You believe you were capable of having proper control.

You can not claim you had proper control of the vehicle, you really really need a solicitor to help you out on this. You will not be able to represent yourself or claim in anyway that you had control. This is where the solicitor comes in.

the other charge is

"that I drove a vehicle without due care and attention". You broke a red light, not a big problem, maybe a small fine.

Your being charged with drug driving, it's serious, get professional help asap.

Seriously, get up at the crack of dawn and start banging on solicitors doors. Talk to the free legal aid in the morning as well.

Edit; I forgot to say wear a suit and be well groomed and very polite, don't be afrid to say nothing, it can be the best thing to do if you don't understand what's happening.

drunkmonkey

uprising2 wrote: »

OP have a look at your options here, or ask on the forum, somebody will help you out.
http://freemanireland.ning.com/

I don't know about that, the freeman guide basically says he could clam brehon law, I'd love to see the free man guide discussed over in the legal forum, some of it makes sense but it all requires balls of steel. Might be worth a shot for doh at this stage.

doh777

Will the court provide free legal aid on the morning?

And about the charges I am probably better off pleading guilty no? Putting myself at the mercy of the judge.

drunkmonkey

doh777 wrote: »

Will the court provide free legal aid on the morning?

And about the charges I am probably better off pleading guilty no? Putting myself at the mercy of the judge.

I don't know that, as I said get up at the crack of dawn and get your ducks in a row. I presume they took a blood or urine sample? If they did your probably looking at a conviction, 4yrs off the road and a fine.

I wouldn't plead guilty as you said you were not stoned, the test may have proved you had pot in your system but it does not prove you were under the influence of it at the time, your body reactions at the time could be explained by nerves if your not used to being in front of a Garda. If you don't manage to get a solicitor claim you don't understand the charges and request the case to be adjourned until you get a solicitor who fully understands the charges that's if you don't find one in the morning. Keep your mount shut if your not 100% on any answer.

I don't know if it's any use but would one of your mates that was in the car go with you and back up that you were not under the influence at the time.

i'm not a solicitor and have no qualification to give you any legal advise, talk to a pro in the morning. I would be asking him to go down the cross examination route as it's the only parachute I can see.

doh777

Ok thanks drunkmonkey.

Thanks all for the posts.

Over and out.

ScumLord

doh777 wrote: »

I was caught yes.

My issue is/was that i am being charged with

"driving under the influence of an intoxicant to such an extent as to be incapable of having proper control of the vehicle".

I believe I was capable of having proper control.

Another charge is

"that I drove a vehicle without due care and attention".

The reason I was stopped was that I broke a red light (slowly) on a deserted stretch of road at 4 in the morning. Nothing reckless or without due care and attention. I had smoked that evening. It is the smell or perhaps dilated pupils that will arouse their suspicion. You are then searched, if they find anything incriminating you are arrested on suspicion of DUI and/or possesion and brought down to the local station for a blood or urine test. Your choice.

If you are stopped and they don't find anything I think they can then ask you to come down to the station of your own free will. They are not arresting officially. That specific situation is not clear to me. They suspect but perhaps don't have the "executive?" power to arrest without physical proof on the spot. They cannot breathalyse for cannabis. You might then be free to go, not sure.

First off, if they didn't do a test they have no evidence you where on anything but knowing Irish law the word of the guard is law. I'd argue that there's no evidence.

doh777 wrote: »

thanks drunkmonkey for the link.

4 years? I didn't know that.

Regarding my level of being stoned it can't be compared to being drunk, taking into consideration motor skills, ability to walk a line. I spoke to the guards clearly and politely on the night in question. I was lucid.

I don't have a solicitor lined up. The date is tomorrow.

Tomorrow! how the fudge did you get a court date so quickly?!!

There's no prof against you, don't let the court scare you stand up for yourself and point out there's no evidence against you.

ScumLord

drunkmonkey wrote: »

I wouldn't plead guilty as you said you were not stoned, the test may have proved you had pot in your system

The tests for weed don't test for the active ingredient which is where this bogus claims of being stoned for a month comes from. So any weed test is invalid as they're not testing for the active ingredient it's like having a breathalyser that tests you for barley to see if they're drunk.

drunkmonkey

ScumLord wrote: »

The tests for weed don't test for the active ingredient which is where this bogus claims of being stoned for a month comes from. So any weed test is invalid as they're not testing for the active ingredient it's like having a breathalyser that tests you for barley to see if they're drunk.

Has anybody tested that argument in court that you know of? It seems like a very logical argument. The laws are really wrong when it comes to drug driving here.