How would the political framework of a 32 county Republic look?

dlofnep

This is not a debate to discuss how unification would take place, or the possibility of it occuring. It is also not a debate to discuss whether or not you are in favour of unification. We've discussed this issue on a number of occasions in the past. Let's assume for argument sake that x amount of time in the future, the people vote in favour of unification via the terms of the Good Friday Agreement. What next?

How will the political framework in Ireland look? Will we have a single house, or would you prefer to see a federal Ireland, with devolved power playing a role?

If we are to assume that unification took place - I believe that we could not be naive enough to think that Unionists would like direct rule from a single house, without a modicum of input. Would federalism resolve this? Would Ireland need to rejoin the commonwealth to qualm the concerns of Unionists?

Let's keep it civil, and discuss the benefits or cons of such a system. Any "kerb-painting" comments can be left at the door. You know who you are.

Discuss.

lugha

It is difficult to say. I have just posted on another thread that I don’t expect the unionists will honor the agreement to join a united Ireland if the majority vote for it. In which case they will be joining a UI under duress, and I expect any attempts to appease them will be rebuffed. If however, they are receptive I think there is danger that nationalists will over reach with the concessions to ensure the second plebiscite passes after the first one fails (which it will). Even if there is no special arrangements, unionists will likely be a very powerful block in a simple extension of our existing parliament.

But as I said, it very much depends on how receptive they are to the idea if any when a UI comes about.

dlofnep

How would it be under duress if the majority of the population voted in favour of it? Let us be clear - that the unionist population voted in favour of the terms of the Good Friday Agreement, without duress. Therefore, they have already accepted that a vote in favour of unification would be valid, and without duress. I don't want to go totally off-topic however.

Do you think a federal system would be favourable, or a single house?

lugha

dlofnep wrote: »

How would it be under duress if the majority of the population voted in favour of it? Let us be clear - that the unionist population voted in favour of the terms of the Good Friday Agreement, without duress.

Perhaps duress in the wrong word. What I mean is that they may not want to be part of a UI, whatever about democracy and I do think it is relevant. A unionist community who have accepted their lot in a united Ireland will likely negotiate in good faith for parliamentary arrangements which will best serve their people. Otherwise they will be looking for ones where they can antagonize and frustrate the workings of state. I think you need to make some preliminary assumptions about their likely mind set before you can speculate about what kind of parliament we might have.

But lets assume for the sake of argument that they do engage in good faith. I imagine we will have a fairly convoluted arrangement with different strands, not unlike the Good Friday Agreement. Perhaps for the less contentious matters like agriculture or economics or the like, they will be discussed in a national parliament with some sort of regional authorities for matters that are likely to cause more bother such as cultural issues, policing (perhaps two forces?) and the like

Liam Byrne

dlofnep wrote: »

Let us be clear - that the unionist population voted in favour of the terms of the Good Friday Agreement, without duress.

I'd beg to differ on this - maybe not complete, but certainly partially.

The reason that a lot of people - myself included - voted for the GFA was to stop people murdering each other, stop criminal activitiy, and stop people having the opportunity to incorrectly claim that their actions were noble and "in the name of Ireland".

Likewise, sensible Unionists who want a normal life could well have voted along similar lines.

It is, however, also true to say that by taking the decision out of the hands of terrorists and into their own hands - where the fate of Northern Ireland is within the hands of no-one else other than themselves, would have been a benefit; the fact that the Sinn Féin Ard Fheis repeatedly referred to "this jurisdiction" rather than "this country" pissed me off no end, though.....whatever about wanting the facts to change, they should acknowledge and speak in facts.

As for the main topic of the thread; I don't really see a point in discussing something that might never happen.

Personally, given the mess that the Government have made of this country, I'd be in favour of regionalised Government, or something different anyways.

I know that if I were living in the North, I definitely wouldn't want to "join" our current corrupt loony-bin.

dlofnep

Liam Byrne wrote: »

As for the main topic of the thread; I don't really see a point in discussing something that might never happen.

You are not obliged to discuss it. It's just a thread to discuss how such a framework would unfold if unification occurred. I would like to have a discussion on the issue however, if that's ok with you?

Mayo Exile

Hi dlofnep. You might want to read this book: "Countdown to Unity - Debating Irish Unification" by Richard Humphreys. Theres alot of heavy legalese in it, but he reckons working the GFA in reverse is probably the immediate scenario to unfold after reunification.

Originally posted by Liam Byrne: the fact that the Sinn Féin Ard Fheis repeatedly referred to "this jurisdiction" rather than "this country" pissed me off no end, though.....whatever about wanting the facts to change, they should acknowledge and speak in facts.

Erm..., they ARE facts. There are currently 2 jurisdictions on the island. SF see the "the country" as the whole island of Ireland in aspirational terms, while simultaneously acknowleging the existence of the 2 aforementioned jurisdictions. Whats there to be "p*@ssed off" about?

Originally posted by Liam Byrne: As for the main topic of the thread; I don't really see a point in discussing something that might never happen.

Bizarre.

GSF

How would the political framework of a 32 county Republic look?
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In a word " bankrupt"