Breast feeding Pain - any advice?

caprilicious

Hi,

I'm looking for some advice if anyone can help please.
I'm just home with my new born and having desperate constant pain while breastfeeding.

I started her on the breast when she was born and the midwives checked me a few times agreed that I did have her positioned correctly.
On day 1 in the hospital baby was feeding and feeding off both my breasts for 2 hours without being satisfied, I think this might be where the trouble started that I over did it.

Since then when baby latches on I have excruciating pain its like a combination of being burnt with a red hot poker and a knife cutting into my nipple.
It doesn't ease when baby starts to suckle it only gets worse.

I said it to several different midwives, none of them checked my nipples they just told me it was normal to feel pain/it would be fine.

I spoke to the midwife once more before I was discharged today and explained to her once again my concern that I was in terrible pain but she said it'd be fine in a few days.

I'm home now and in unbearable pain. I'm going to go to my GP tomorrow but would love to hear from others that experienced the same and how it worked out for you.

The first night after the 2 hour breast feed baby still wouldn't settle properly so in the end (6am) I brought her to the nursery and they fed her a bottle as a top up so I could sleep.
Since then each time she was hungry I tried her on the breast for 10-15 mins (each time alternating breast) before giving her aptimil.
I wanted to give breast feeding a proper go but was in so much pain when I got home that I instead tried the breast pump and fed her expressed milk.

It is a bit easier with the pump but my nipples are starting to bleed.

When she has the Aptimil feed she sleeps for 3 - 4 hours, when I feed her breast milk she is only sleeping for 1 - 2 hours, it doesn't seem to be filling her.
My milk hasn't come in yet, so its colostrum only so far that I'm producing.
Has anyone else here had difficulty starting off? I didn't expect it to be so hard

My nipples are now constantly sore, my breasts feel like they're on fire & touching off them is very sore.
I've tried cold cabbage leaves on my breasts (smells lovely!) and they're not doing a lot for me. Also tried Lansinoh, rubbed colostrum on my nipples, warm shower, cold water...all to no avail

Or is there anyone here feeding bottle + breast milk successfully?

I asked the hospital about using bottle + breast combined but they weren't so keen, I just had a lot of 'breast is best', I was given very little info regarding bottle feed as an alternative.
I'm trying to stay positive about it and was thinking at least if I could keep expressing using the pump that I could combine that and bottle feed to keep her going rather than giving up on breast feeding altogether.

Any info or advice would be really appreciated

Khannie

Congrats on the new arrival.

This stuff is from memory of 3 years ago so you'll have to bear with the vagueness a bit....(until the morning)... I thought it better to reply than leave you with no answer at this hour though.

My wife had a good bit of pain feeding the last one at the start. She's in bed now or I'd ask her (I'll ask her in the morning). Here's what I remember: She had what sound like similar pains to you and her nipples were in bits. As I recall we thought it might be mastitis (you should check this). There was some massaging of her breast involved to make sure she eased out some small lumpy bits. Make sure you're properly hydrated.

It's worth having a look at the laleche site. Not sure if there's an Ireland one, but there's definitely a UK version.

http://www.laleche.org.uk/

edit: There is an Irish one: http://www.lalecheleagueireland.com

We're succesfully doing bottle and breast now. I think you need to give it a few weeks to build up sufficient supply though. We're 8 weeks in today and we've been using bottles now for a bit over a week (we're up to two small bottles a day now (4-6 ounces ish)).

Hope that helps. Good luck with it.

bogtotty

Ah hon, that's a bit rough. It is normal to have some stinging at the start, but this should fade as you feed. Counting to ten always got me through the worst of it, and it sorted itself out by week 2. What you are experiencing sounds more serious. I think the nurses were fobbing you off - many of them don't have sufficient training to determine if a good latch has been made or not. Get your GP to check your baby for tongue tie and get a recommendation for a lactation consultant. Also get checked for thrush - this is much more likely than mastitis at this stage and is easily treatable.

There is also an organisation called Cuidiú (http://www.cuidiu-ict.ie/fulcrum.html?ep=10) who can send someone out to you - they're like La Leche League but a bit less fanatical (sorry any LLL-ers, ye are wonderful people but ye scare me a bit). In the meantime, get yourself over to http://www.thebreastway.ie - there are trained health professionals active on the boards there who will gladly help you out. The breast-feeding forum on http://www.rollercoaster.ie is also a lifesaver - I would not be breastfeeding my 7-month old were it not for those lovely girlies.

Hope you feel better soon and that it starts to go a bit easier for you. Go easy on the formula though - the more you give the lower your supply will drop and that will make it more difficult. It is a little bit early to be expressing. You might want to try and get some nipple shields until the worst of the cracks have cleared up. If you can at all, stick with it, it is so worth it, but remember too that even one day of breastfeeding is better than none at all.

Billiejo

If it feels like 'red hot needles' it may be 'Thrush' See GP.

Nevyn

It sounds like you may have cracked nipples.
The skin can split from feeding if you over do it at first, I had the same thing happen with both of mine. I would suggest you get a pair of nipple sheilds asap.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nipple_shield_%28breastfeeding%29

nipple shield is a nipple-shaped sheath worn over the areola and nipple during breastfeeding. Modern nipple shields are made of soft, thin, flexible silicone and have holes at the end of the nipple section to allow the breast milk to pass through

http://www.medelabreastfeedingus.com/tips-and-solutions/112/nipple-shields

Boots have them and they are about 7 euros and I found them to be a god send. I cracked both nipples in the hospital and the pain was worse then labour and the first 15 mins of feeding on each breast was very painful. I would have given up if my mother had not got me my first pair of nipple shields when I got home from the hospital, it was that sore and frustrating.

The shields were just the buffer my nipples needed so that they healed and after a week of using them my nipples healed so I didn't have to use them but there were times after even when they weren't cracked I did use them
when they were feeling sore and sensitive.

Are you airing your breasts after feeding?
I know it felt very strange to sit topless after feeding and just 'air' my breasts but it did them a lot of good in terms of healing.

You'll get there, sounds like you are determined and I know when I was in that much pain I felt very emotional and like I was a failure that I couldn't even get breast feeding right, by the time my eldest was 4 weeks I had the knack of it and was able to relax and read while feeding him but the first week of bracing my self as he latched on was horrible.

Go get the nipple shields and see how you go, I know that they are not recommended by the hospital and a lot of the pro breast feeding lobbyist are anti them as well but I would not have been able to keep going with out them.

tfak85

congrats on the new arrival and the decision to breastfeed - you can do it!!

when you start to feed your baby make sure she has a really wide open mouth and that you fill her mouth with the nipple as much as possible (the tip of the nipple needs to be pretty much at the back of her mouth and her lips on/near the edge of the areola).
it is possible to breast and bottle feed but try your best with the breast, particularly at night (you produce the most milk between 11pm and 1am).

you can call up the hospital and see if they can get you an appointment with the lactation consultant..other than that cuidiu are fantastic!

best of luck.

ebmma

The 1st three days are not about satisfaction, more about baby stimulating your breasts so that you can have milk on day 3-4.

My boy was on and off nearly constantly for the first days but then milk really came in.
tbh, it didn't occur to me when he was crying that he's not satisfied a such, I remember reading that a full-term baby can do just fine on colostrum so that kind of helped me to stay away from bottles.
How old is he now?

I was told it is ok to take paracetamol for the pain and it seemed to help a bit.

It sounds like nurses were no help at all to you at all :mad: I kept asking to check the latch constantly and I think I'm slowly getting less clumsy with it and nipples started looking a bit less bleedy...

I know what you mean about the pain though it makes the toes curl :eek: But if it's not easing off even a little smth must be wrong...

hope you feel better..

caprilicious

Folks thanks a mill for all the replies I really appreciate it and its really nice to know I'm not alone

I seen the GP today, first thing she asked was had I spoken to LLL, she couldn't give me anything for it but did check both breasts/nipples and said I don't have an infection/thrush/mastisis - Thank God!
She also told me to take paracetomol throughout the day for the pain.

My milk came in this morning omigod Pamela Anderson eat your heart out!!

The GP recommended that I express for at least the next 3 days/don't let baby latch on in order to let my nipples recover.
At least its the best of both worlds, she's still getting her breast milk and I'm not in so much pain.

She's some little guzzler, she's been taking feed of about 30mls each time, just knocked back 70mls for her last feed :eek:
She's only 3 days old, at this rate I'll be expressing for Ireland to keep this little lady full!

Thanks a mill all for the links also, there's a LLL meeting next Monday so I'm going to give that a try see how that goes and I'm going to check out the cuidiu site also.

lynski

I think the gp is wrong to tell you not to latch on the baby as it is the suckling the stimulates the milk production and pumping is not the same, but see how you go.
Re your pain - I had a very simialar thing with my daughter. I was in agony and i had fed my son so i knew what was normal. I was told 3 or 4 times by phn and docs she was latched properly, but she wasn't. and once i corrected it the pain went over night. she was a guzzler too.
Go back to your books and try the latch again, really it can be that simple.
best thing with a guzzler is that they will feed really fast.
Oh and i successfully combination fed both of mine on the baby whisperere routines so combining id possible and so is routine, just work out what works for you.

littlebug

when I was at my sorest i would express from the worst side to give myself a break but still fed him from the other side. He wouldn't take to the bottle at all so I had to do it that way and then switch sides.
The risk with not breastfeeding her at all for a few days is that she gets so used to the sucking action from the bottle that she won't be able to switch back. I do think 3 days is a bit long for her not to be on the boob at all... sorry There again they are all different so you need to find what works best for you.
Thaedydal gives good advice above re letting the girls hang out etc.

Best of luck

jmbkay

I have done breastfeeding and found it hard going sometimes. I think that feeding for two hours is way too long. What I used to do was feed baby from a full breast and change over when it was empty. It is likely your baby wasnt feeding the whole time, just nibbling, which probably brought on the soreness. I also used bottles sometimes. Best of luck.

caprilicious

littlebug wrote: »

.
Thaedydal gives good advice above re letting the girls hang out etc.

I'll have to be careful with this, we live in the country and I had set up the pump so I could sit in the kitchen and express, however the farmer in the field beside us has only today let cattle back into the field, I'll have to remember to close the blinds when I'm leaving the girls out :D

That breastway website is really good I just had a good read of their site.
I think the nipple shields could be a very good option to even temporarily to get back from bottle to breast.

I think you could be right lynski that 3 days is a bit long, I'm taking today off anyway as they're just too sore (already tried this morning) but will try her on again tomorrow afternoon and see how I get on.

I did have problems with hyper sensitivity with my nips before I was pregnant when I was using the Mirena IUD; at least I know if there is going to be issues long term with my nipples that I can express and still give her the benefits of the breast milk.

God love women in the days before pumps/LLL/nipple shields etc that had these problems and no such thing as bottle feed to fall back on :eek:

littlebug

My PHN swore that the paler the person the more pain and problems they would have with breastfeeding. The pinker the nips the worse it is she claimed and then went on to tell me that hers were as "pink as the driven snow" Weird snow we have in these parts :cool:

caprilicious

It must be true so about being fair, I'm a red head and as for being fair I'm one shade up from casper the ghost

That is some very strange snow your phn has alright!!

Nevyn

lynski wrote: »

I think the gp is wrong to tell you not to latch on the baby as it is the suckling the stimulates the milk production and pumping is not the same, but see how you go.

I'd agree with that being too long in my opinion.
I would suggest trying to wait for 24 hours and then start again (with the shields if you have managed to get them).

Make sure you are hitting the right spot to get the baby's mouth to open really wide and make sure you are comfy so that when latch is achieved you can sit for a while.

http://newborns.stanford.edu/Breastfeeding/FifteenMinuteHelper.html
Has a 15min video with a really good demo on getting a good latch and how an incorrect latch can have
the baby chewing and hurting the nipples.

Das Kitty

Hey Cap.

I was the same. If your nipples are cracked and bleeding the latch is wrong. Even if the midwives say it looks right. My baby wasn't taking enough breast in, even though his lip and jaw looked right. I looked up a million different how tos on the various positions for feeding (lying, underarm, cradle) and tried them all until I found a way that worked on each side. If you manage to get the right latch you will know because your nipple even though it's damaged will hurt way less. Panadol is good. I found the sheilds to hurt just as much but that could have been me. To stop sore nips rubbing off your clothes get some nipple shells.

paddydriver

My wife got a breast feeding (lactation) consultant out... the girl is with Holles St so PM if you want names.

She says it was best money she ever spent and we now have our third child feeding and previous 2 were breast fed till 6-7 months.

I think VHI etc now cover a certain amount on these consultants too.

I cannot deny that she did not get all the related issues; such as mastitis etc; but outside of these it has gone very well for us (Well, her and kids;))

cbyrd

Cap i have a brilliant cream that worked wonders with sore nipples, it's not actually a cream but i've used it with all 3 of mine and it was brilliant, it's forever living aloe lips...it's a lip balm but it's so good i've nicknamed it aloe nips!! it's not widely available but if you want some i have loads and if it doesn't work sure you have a nice lip balm.!! PM me if you want and i can post some off to you..!!
Hope you're getting on a bit better now, it's so hard in the beginning but it's well worth it if you can manage it!

tomcollins97

why put youself through all this? There is nothing wrong with bottle feeding and both you and baby will be happier on a bottle.

Das Kitty

tomcollins97 wrote: »

why put youself through all this? There is nothing wrong with bottle feeding and both you and baby will be happier on a bottle.

Why does it bother you so much? This is the second post of yours that I've seen telling people not to breastfeed. Is it inconceivable to you that people may wish to continue with something in spite of difficulty for the longterm benefit of their child and themselves? The OP was looking for advice on solving the pain not on whether she should give up or not.

No one said there was anything wrong with bottle feeding for the record.

caprilicious

Thanks a mill again for the advice folks its amazing being able to get so much support and advice I really appreciate it.

I put her back on the breast this morning for her feed to see how things went and it was fine.
It was sore when she latched on at first, but I did the 'count to 10' and by the time I got to about 8 it wasn't quite as sore.

All the feeds went well, the only one that was difficult as such was the last one as she fed from both breasts but was still hungry.
I'm still a bit delicate so didn't want to push it with the breast too much and gave her some formula as a top up, she drank 40mls as well as feeding from the breast!
It was the same this time yesterday she had a really big feed at this time so I might just express a bit earlier in the day to have extra for this feed.

Tomcollins97 I know it probably seems like more hassle than its worth and I'm not trying to be a martyr at all, I just want to try give baby the best start possible.
As a kid I had loads of allergies (chocolate/fizzy drinks/eggs etc), babies that are breastfed are supposed to be less prone to allergies so if I can prevent her having the allergies and building up her little immune system then it'll be worth it

I bought the nipple shields but haven't had to use them just yet, it'll be very handy to keep them if I'm having another tough day.
I think there's a LLL meeting tomorrow in the hospital, if there is I'm going to go to that and see if they can help me/check the latch.
paddydriver very good suggestion, I'm in Kilkenny though & I don't think there's the same amount of services such as lactation consultants as there is in Dublin unfortunately.

Cbyrd thanks a mill, I just googled it and my sister has some of the aloe vera lip balm, I hadn't thought of using it I'll nick hers and see how I get on, great suggestion

Can I ask those of you that are breast feeding, will I constantly be leaking or does it regulate itself eventually?
I'm going through breast pads at a serious rate!
Also, do your breasts always feel very full/heavy or will this ease also?

bogtotty

Cap, I leaked nearly every night until about the third month and rarely have since then. It does sort itself out, don't interfere too much with it for a few weeks yet as you will be grateful for any bit of oversupply once you start hitting the growth spurts. I found the best pads to be the boots own brand ones (the bigger extra absorbent ones) and the tesco own brand ones (but make sure they're the ones with the adhesive strip). Most nights at the start I would go to bed with three or four of them inside each bra cup and might still wake up soaked. A towel under you on the bed is a must.
My sister never leaked, not once, so it might regulate more quickly for you than it did me.

Your breasts will feel especially heavy for the first two weeks and then you will begin to notice that they only feel that way when you haven't fed babs for a while. My husband can tell which boob is next in line as I get very lopsided approaching feeding time!

Just to give you the heads-up on growth spurts (I don't know if you know about them). They usually occur around day 9, at 3, 6 & 9 weeks, at 3 months and then irregularly. Suddenly your baby will seem starving and will want to feed every 2 hours or even more often, and you will think you don't have enough milk and will contemplate giving extra formula. If you can stick with it, try to only breastfeed during the spurts. Baby feeds and feeds for a few days in order to stimulate your breasts to start producing extra milk for baby's future needs. It is not about what she needs on the day, but what will be needed once she has grown a bit, so try not to get frustrated when she keeps feeding without a break and try not to use formula as it could limit the effectiveness of the spurt.

The absolute best thing to do during a spurt is get comfy on the sofa or bed, keep the remote controls & phone nearby, get your partner to stock up on good easy food and don't do anything else but feed your daughter until it passes - no cooking, cleaning, washing, just you and baby chilling out and working together to make more milk. Thankfully, most babies sleep a lot in the day or two after a spurt so you will get a break once it is over.

Nevyn

I found that I would only drip when I was due to feed.
At night I just would wear the breast shells other wise I'd soak tbe bed.
Some nights I ended up with an ounce of milk in each one.

tfak85

caprilicious wrote: »

Cbyrd thanks a mill, I just googled it and my sister has some of the aloe vera lip balm, I hadn't thought of using it I'll nick hers and see how I get on, great suggestion

Also, do your breasts always feel very full/heavy or will this ease also?

if your sister gets cold sores perhaps just pick up a new lip balm

you should be sure to completely empty one breast before offering the other side (this is how your baby will gain weight), it should help the breasts feel a little lighter for a short while anyway!

cbyrd

Hey cap just saw the pic of Rose on the other thread!! She's gorgeous and what a pose!! ??Congratulations!!

cynder

Wait until they get teeth and bite and you get an ulcer where they broke the skin - that really, really hurts.

When i breast fed my lady she got nipple confusion and she couldnt latch on to the bottle or my breast and when she did i was in agony... i fed her for 2.5 years and coulndt get her of it, in the end i coated them in mustard and told her the milk had gone yucky. might be a blessing that she is taking the bottle.

caprilicious

Folks thanks a mill one and all for you advice.

Unfortunately I've decided not to follow through with breast feeding.
I have nothing but respect for the rest of you that have continued on with breast feeding through the pain, I just can not.

I couldn't cuddle my baby yesterday because my breasts were so sore that I couldn't cuddle her to me. I had to get my husband to wind her during the night because I couldn't hold her to me it was that painful. It tore my heart out not being able to comfort my own baby.

I couldn't sleep because my breasts were so heavy and sore, constantly stinging and throbbing.
Because they're so hot I have to drink plenty of fluids, I have a tear down below and every time I drink I need to relieve myself excuse the expression but its like peeing out razor blades.

I'm just finding the whole thing overwhelming. I know if I persevered a few weeks longer the pain might possibly subside or things might work out, but my husband is back to work now so I'm home alone minding baby.
I am absolutely no use to my baby if I'm a blubbering wreck and too sore to be able to give her my undivided attention.

I would love for her to still be able to gain the benefits of breast milk, I just hope the 5 days of colostrum she got will count for something.

Like I said, thank you very much all to everyone for your help and advice I really appreciate it and hopefully this thread will be useful for other new mums that are having difficulty breastfeeding as the advice has been excellent.

Thanks a mill Cbyrd, she's a real little poser already

bogtotty

Sorry it didn't work out for you caprilicious - it can be a bit rough at the start with everything to deal with at once. Well done on giving her such a brilliant start with the colostrum and all your wonderful antibodies and immunities. If every baby could get that much it would be fantastic. Enjoy your little lady, hope everything gets more comfortable for you soon.

Nevyn

caprilicious you did your best, it's all we ever can do for our kids.
Look after yourself rest up, you still have healing and recovering to do.

Das Kitty

You did brilliant lady. Xxx

It's most important that Rose has a happy mammy over anything else.

littlebug

Caprilicious you did great and have given your baby a great start
Enjoy your little lady- these days will fly by

cbyrd

Das Kitty wrote: »

You did brilliant lady. Xxx

It's most important that Rose has a happy mammy over anything else.

i agree completely, you would run the risk of getting PND and that's no good for anyone.. so get out the bottles and enjoy your baby:D

tomcollins97

Das Kitty wrote: »

Why does it bother you so much? This is the second post of yours that I've seen telling people not to breastfeed. Is it inconceivable to you that people may wish to continue with something in spite of difficulty for the longterm benefit of their child and themselves? The OP was looking for advice on solving the pain not on whether she should give up or not.

No one said there was anything wrong with bottle feeding for the record.

It bothers me coz I am sick of the 'breast is best' mob. I hate the way some people, expecially medical professionals, look down their noses at you if you decide not to breast feed. There are pros and cons for both breast and bottle. All I was saying to the OP was to think about if the level of pain and discomfort was really worth it. If mother is stressed, baby is stressed. If there are issues feeding baby may not get enough regular nourishment.

There are options for those having difficulty breast feeding and if they choose to stop they should not feel like they are a bad mother or letting down their baby, in the same way that those who breast feed should not feel superior to those who don't.

Das Kitty

tomcollins97 wrote: »

It bothers me coz I am sick of the 'breast is best' mob. I hate the way some people, expecially medical professionals, look down their noses at you if you decide not to breast feed. There are pros and cons for both breast and bottle. All I was saying to the OP was to think about if the level of pain and discomfort was really worth it. If mother is stressed, baby is stressed. If there are issues feeding baby may not get enough regular nourishment.

There are options for those having difficulty breast feeding and if they choose to stop they should not feel like they are a bad mother or letting down their baby, in the same way that those who breast feed should not feel superior to those who don't.

I agree that what's best for the mother is best for the baby, how a woman chooses to feed her child is her choice completely. That is why I objected to you pushing the bottle in a breastfeeding thread, if it was the other way around there'd be a lot said.

I also think it's quite patronising that you feel that you need to inform women that they have a choice, they know.

Not one post on this thread (or the other you posted on) looked down bottles, just because someone encourages someone interested in breastfeeding doesn't mean they're slagging off bottle feeders.

IMO guilt should not play a role in the nourishment of babies regardless of how they are fed (that includes 'baby not getting enough' type comments), however I've yet to talk to a mother who has felt no guilt in this area.

cynder

Best of luck, sure you dont need it.

caprilicious

Thanks a mill all for the support. Rose is doing brilliant on the bottles and is now drinking almost 100mls every feed :eek::D

I had the public health nurse visit yesterday, I was a bit anxious that she might try to persuade me to try breast feeding again but she was fantastic, really supportive.
She gave me some great advice on how to stop the milk, as some of the advice online is conflicting (a lot of websites advising to express some milk off in shower to ease heaviness - nurse said don't do that, turn back to shower or have a bath instead as the warm water will only cause more milk to be produced)

They're still very heavy and very sore at night but hopefully it wont take too long for them to dry up. The novelty of having Pamela Anderson size funbags is wearing off fast :rolleyes:;)

tomcollins97 I know what you mean, I told several midwives that I was in a lot of pain, none actually checked my breast to see if I mightve had an infection or a duct blockage, I was basically told to keep at it and it would be fine. I felt a bit like I was being told just to get on with it. When I asked about topping up her feeds with formula or expressing instead it was brushed off.
I think if there had been some more emphasis on the health and well being of mum a lot more women would carry on with breast feeding.