Is success frowned upon in Ireland?

SLUSK

I get the impression success is frowned upon in Ireland, the average Irish person seems to think that anyone who is successful is a "smug prick".

Maybe I am wrong but this is the impression I get.

Scouser

SLUSK wrote: »

I get the impression success is frowned upon in Ireland, the average Irish person seems to think that anyone who is successful is a "smug prick".

Maybe I am wrong but this is the impression I get.

thats why celebs love coming to ireland. they dnt get hassled walking dwn the street they say.

thats because all the paddys walkin by are sayin to themsleves 'look at that swine thinkin hes great, i wouldnt give him the satisfaction of an awknowledgement'

we as a nation are very uncomfortable with success! wed rather be the down and out, the underdog, the agrieved.

SLUSK

Scouser wrote: »

thats why celebs love coming to ireland. they dnt get hassled walking dwn the street they say.

thats because all the paddys walkin by are sayin to themsleves 'look at that swine thinkin hes great, i wouldnt give him the satisfaction of an awknowledgement'

we as a nation are very uncomfortable with success! wed rather be the down and out, the underdog, the agrieved.

This is very similar to the Swedish psyche. Believing you're anything at all is frowned upon in Sweden.

peter p

cavan is the worst, i live there 10 yrs now, and still cant get over what the people are like and what they say when they see someone with an ounce of success.
sad really, i for one say fair play to them all!

ChocolateSauce

SLUSK wrote: »

I get the impression success is frowned upon in Ireland, the average Irish person seems to think that anyone who is successful is a "smug prick".

Maybe I am wrong but this is the impression I get.

No, that's just because of Bono and O'Leary taking up most of the air time with their bombastic smugness.

irishh_bob

SLUSK wrote: »

This is very similar to the Swedish psyche. Believing you're anything at all is frowned upon in Sweden.

our attitude towards success stems from our deep rooted catholicism where as the sweedes discomfort with success is due to its socilist political culture

Giselle

Scouser wrote: »

thats why celebs love coming to ireland. they dnt get hassled walking dwn the street they say.

thats because all the paddys walkin by are sayin to themsleves 'look at that swine thinkin hes great, i wouldnt give him the satisfaction of an awknowledgement'

we as a nation are very uncomfortable with success! wed rather be the down and out, the underdog, the agrieved.

I think thats the crux of it. Irish people don't really mind success per se.

Its vulgar displays of wealth, or self-satisfaction that really p!sses them off.

Valmont

Giselle wrote: »

Its vulgar displays of wealth or self-satisfaction that really p!sses them off.

I don't think I would know a vulgar display of self-satisfaction if I saw one. What is it exactly, and why don't you like it?

Giselle

Comma added.

I knew a girl through a friend, whos family were very wealthy from a lottery win.

They took enormous pleasure in going to visit former neighbours in their 100k car to discuss their various holidays and purchases. Their old neighbourhood was what you might call very deprived.

It was gloating, and the enjoyment they got from showing their former associates what they could never themselves have was unpleasant.

People appreciate discretion.

scarecrow00

SLUSK wrote: »

I get the impression success is frowned upon in Ireland, the average Irish person seems to think that anyone who is successful is a "smug prick".

Maybe I am wrong but this is the impression I get.

yeh some people jus like to bring others down, its smallmindness.


but saying that bonos a douche. :P

Eliot Rosewater

I do think people in Ireland frown upon success, but I'm not sure if this is a distinctly Irish thing.

The classic example of this in my mind is Ryanair, and in particular the camp of "Ryanair haters" that the airline has created. Ryanair don't claim to be anything they're not. They market themselves as a cheap-ass low-fares airline. Their website looks tacky. They don't promise the kind of luxury one expects from other airlines. And, of course, engaging with the airline is fully voluntary; if you don't like the taxes and charges added on at the end then you can back out.

Yet despite this there has grown a mini-industry out of hating Ryanair. I regularly see letters to the papers moaning about them, as well as books such as "Ruinair" in the shops. Why is this? Were people surprised when their flight from Cork to Munich that cost them a tenner wasn't the height of comfort? And more importantly - if you really hate the service why do you keep on using it and moaning about it?

The only reason I can see why people behave like this is that they're jealous of the success of the Ryans and Micheal O'Leary. The fact that O'Leary can get away with being brusque, that he has been a excellent CEO and that he's richer than the average person annoys the populace because they want to be like that too but they can't be.

Handsome Bob

I don't think the country as a whole look down on success. I hate this "we're a nation of begrudgers" rhetoric because it's just another hollow generalisation. The truth is that you'll find people all over the world who begrudge other people, maybe that's because they feel that they didn't get the breaks in life.

I have no problem with people who achieve success through their own work ethic, and as Giselle pointed out, discretion as well as humility are always going to endear you to someone.

I don't begrudge people, I get annoyed at people when I feel they haven't got traits such as discretion and humility. Take for example the young upstart who walks staight into HR management without an ounce of experience but maintains that he or she are "self made". The truth is that nepotism got them the job but they are ignorant to this reality. They then use their "success" to be critical of others who haven't had the fortune to have a well placed daddy in law. Or maybe they simply begin to look down on their friends and "lord" their success over them.

If there is any truth to the cliche that we're a nation of begrudgers, it would only because we're also a nation of self interested deluded people.

irishh_bob

Giselle wrote: »

I think thats the crux of it. Irish people don't really mind success per se.

Its vulgar displays of wealth, or self-satisfaction that really p!sses them off.

in my experience , irish people are big on vulgar displays of wealth , compared to other nationalties , we build redicolously large houses and change our cars much more often , we are like italians or black people in this regard and unlike presbyterians in scotland , new zealand , canada

irishh_bob

Eliot Rosewater wrote: »

I do think people in Ireland frown upon success, but I'm not sure if this is a distinctly Irish thing.

The classic example of this in my mind is Ryanair, and in particular the camp of "Ryanair haters" that the airline has created. Ryanair don't claim to be anything they're not. They market themselves as a cheap-ass low-fairs airline. Their website looks tacky. They don't promise the kind of luxury one expects from other airlines. And, of course, engaging with the airline is fully voluntary; if you don't like the taxes and charges added on at the end then you can back out.

Yet despite this there has grown a mini-industry out of hating Ryanair. I regularly see letters to the papers moaning about them, as well as books such as "Ruinair" in the shops. Why is this? Were people surprised when their flight from Cork to Munich that cost them a tenner wasn't the height of comfort? And more importantly - if you really hate the service why do you keep on using it and moaning about it?

The only reason I can see why people behave like this is that they're jealous of the success of the Ryans and Micheal O'Leary. The fact that O'Leary can get away with being brusque, that he has been a excellent CEO and that he's richer than the average person annoys the populace because they want to be like that too but they can't be.

official ireland and the chattering left wing classes look down on ryanair as they cant tollerate an org who,s style is unapologetically capatilist , the average person loves the airline

Sleepy

I think a lot of it is to do with Ireland as a nation is just not used to having money. We're so used to being a poor people that when a lot of Irish people as individuals get money they go mad with it.

I've an uncle who made his fortune with a shovel and hard work in Australia. Everyone who meets him likes him and would only know the man is wealthy when you realise it's his name on the side of his company's fleet of machinery. Don't get me wrong, he has a lovely house in a good neighbourhood but he's the furthest thing from flash you could imagine. Unfortunately, he and one other person are the exceptions out of the few very wealthy people I know.

From what I can see, most rich Irish people seem to be only dying to show you how much money (or credit) they have. Vulgarity and smug self satisfaction are rarely considered to be attractive features and when other people call them on it they get told they're just begrudgers.

If it's begrudgery to consider Gerald Keane a tosser for getting his mates to put him on page 14 of the Sindo so he can show off the expensive bottle of champagne in his hand and the vacuous blonde (who wouldn't look at him once, never mind twice, if he wasn't rich) then call me a begrudger.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

metrovelvet

It appears to me that the Irish have a pathological need to keep their peers in their place and to not let anyone get notions or above themselves. The whole slagging culture and the ability to take a good slagging as a measure of one's true citizenship in Irish society testifies to this compulsion not to let anyone succeed.

I have a love hate with Ryan air. I hate flying them but thank god they are there or Aer Lingus would be astronomical.

irishh_bob

Sleepy wrote: »

I think a lot of it is to do with Ireland as a nation is just not used to having money. We're so used to being a poor people that when a lot of Irish people as individuals get money they go mad with it.

I've an uncle who made his fortune with a shovel and hard work in Australia. Everyone who meets him likes him and would only know the man is wealthy when you realise it's his name on the side of his company's fleet of machinery. Don't get me wrong, he has a lovely house in a good neighbourhood but he's the furthest thing from flash you could imagine. Unfortunately, he and one other person are the exceptions out of the few very wealthy people I know.

From what I can see, most rich Irish people seem to be only dying to show you how much money (or credit) they have. Vulgarity and smug self satisfaction are rarely considered to be attractive features and when other people call them on it they get told they're just begrudgers.

If it's begrudgery to consider Gerald Keane a tosser for getting his mates to put him on page 14 of the Sindo so he can show off the expensive bottle of champagne in his hand and the vacuous blonde (who wouldn't look at him once, never mind twice, if he wasn't rich) then call me a begrudger.

gerald keane is thee most annoying man in ireland , every word he utters is pure populist drivel

RayM

donegalfella wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

I don't think that's completely accurate. Regardless of whether it's private or state-owned, most people don't "get" the RyanAir model, because they still hold this antiquated view that air travel is a luxury, associated with holidays and all things nice. It'll probably take a few generations before people fully "cop on" and accept what low-fare airlines actually entail.

People who travel a lot generally don't have a problem with RyanAir's service. They get it. They're used to it, and don't expect any kind of special experience. They just want to travel from A to B (or at least within a "short bus journey" of B :pac: ) cheaply and without hassle.

But yes, it often feels that achievement (even where it doesn't involve financial success) is frowned upon in Ireland. It's all very nice not letting people get "too big for their boots" etc, but it all gets a bit tiresome sometimes.

profitius

It depends on the behaviour of the wealthy person. Wealth can turn a normal person into believing they are better then most people if they have money.

These people simply value money more then normal people do.

I actually think Irish people are down to earth and less inclined to show off then others. Theres some exceptions but for every wealthy person with a flashy car theres plenty of others who blend into society. We only notice the wealthy people who show it off.

Dudess

Eliot Rosewater wrote: »

The only reason I can see why people behave like this is that they're jealous of the success of the Ryans and Micheal O'Leary. The fact that O'Leary can get away with being brusque, that he has been a excellent CEO and that he's richer than the average person annoys the populace because they want to be like that too but they can't be.

A lot of people find O'Leary utterly obnoxious - that doesn't mean they're automatically jealous of his success.

I concur with those who consider the "typical Irish begrudgery" line a load of cock. And I presume those Irish people who whinge about what begrudgers we are consider themselves exempt, despite it being apparently such an "Irish" trait.

Zascar

The Irish are a nation of begrudgers, there is no secret. it's mornonic if you ask me. If I see someone who has done well for themselves, I say fair play to them. Success should be celebrated (in moderation of course, lets not get like the US).

In Australia Tall Poppy Syndrome is very well known, and its similar here. I remember hearing an interview with Gay Byrne talking about his experience on it. He reckons it goes back to the famine days, where if you have a loaf of bread and I don’t – I resent you for that because I might starve.

There is a similar situation towards people living in poor areas automatically hating people who live in nicer areas, or if their accent is not like theirs. It’s not just kids it still happens across the board. Pure ignorance if you ask me.

Kiwi_knock

I don't think we begrudge most people their success but we do seem to moan about people who portray Ireland negatively with their success. I think a prime example is Kenny Egan, the boxer. During the Olympics we supported him on his way to the silver medal. A tremondous achievement that was rightly lauded back home. However when he got home and began celebrating his success lavishly, out drinking most nights, public opinion of him quickly changed. Newspaper articles portrayed him in a bad light which made people begrudge his success, saying he did not deserve it. He went against the so called Irish ideals that we have set out for ourselves, a behavioural set of guidelines. In Ireland when someone gets to big for their boots we sharply criticise them, not for their success but for the way they portray their success.