Public Liability Insurance

garbarrage

Hi there, myself and my partner are setting up a business painting and decorating in Sligo town based for the moment on one contract. We have been told that we are required to have Public Liability insurance which covers us up to €6.5m by the brokers we have spoken to so far, even though there are €2.3 million and €1.something million options available. My question is basically is this area covered by law or possibly bye-laws? Is it enforceable that we have to have the highest rate of cover available or can we be stopped working if we have one of the lower options? Any advice greatly appreciated.

Kev80

I think it really depends on the terms of your contract with the company/person you are doing the work for. If they request you to have Public Liability of €6.5 million then you will need a policy to prove it or they won't let you do the work. Most public liability policies have limits of indemnity of €2.6 million or €6.5 million. The cost of increasing from €2.6m to €6.5m could be an extra few hundred euro. You should also check what the height limit on the policy is. Most companies have a 10-15 metre height restriction. If you are working above this height let them know and see if they can increase it.

garbarrage

Cheers for the reply mate. Figured that was the case. The broker we spoke to was local and I later found out that his family owns a few other businesses around the town and are known for being pretty ruthless. Spoke to a broker on the phone this morning who was quite helpful.

The concern came from mostly from my partner as he said he had been stopped on a job before for the same reason. Turned out afterward that the company who got the contract after him was owned by a guy with close ties to the local chamber of commerce.

jimmmy

garbarrage wrote: »

The concern came from mostly from my partner as he said he had been stopped on a job before for the same reason.

Not adequate insurance cover ? Its understandable. Suppose a ladder was to fall on a mother of six + heaven forbid cause very serious injury....and care had to be provided for xx years etc. I am not a legal or insurance expert but would guess part of the liability could fall on the building owner if the contractor had not enough insurance or assets to meet a claim. Its maybe just as well your partner was stopped / not awarded the contract if the stipulation is that people have proper insurance cover.

garbarrage wrote: »

Turned out afterward that the company who got the contract after him was owned by a guy with close ties to the local chamber of commerce.

What has the chamber of commerce got to do with it ? Are you insinuating that the person got the contract because he was a member of the chamber of commerce, rather than because he had the proper insurance ( or indeed came in with a lower tender ) ? I have no ties to any chamber of commerce by the way. If it was a public sector contract it could deserve further investigation if you think something improper happened. If a private individual wanted his / her premises painted, there is nothing to stop him / her giving the contract to whoever does the best work, at the best price, and who has the proper insurance cover...or they can give it to their cousins aunt's best mate's neighbour if they want.

Out of curiosity, did you find local brokers insurance quotations more competitive or less competitive than the on-line / national insurance brokers ?

garbarrage

jimmmy wrote: »

Not adequate insurance cover ? Its understandable. Suppose a ladder was to fall on a mother of six + heaven forbid cause very serious injury....and care had to be provided for xx years etc. I am not a legal or insurance expert but would guess part of the liability could fall on the building owner if the contractor had not enough insurance or assets to meet a claim. Its maybe just as well your partner was stopped / not awarded the contract if the stipulation is that people have proper insurance cover.


What has the chamber of commerce got to do with it ? Are you insinuating that the person got the contract because he was a member of the chamber of commerce, rather than because he had the proper insurance ( or indeed came in with a lower tender ) ? I have no ties to any chamber of commerce by the way. If it was a public sector contract it could deserve further investigation if you think something improper happened. If a private individual wanted his / her premises painted, there is nothing to stop him / her giving the contract to whoever does the best work, at the best price, and who has the proper insurance cover...or they can give it to their cousins aunt's best mate's neighbour if they want.

Out of curiosity, did you find local brokers insurance quotations more competitive or less competitive than the on-line / national insurance brokers ?

Jimmmy, I wasn't asking for a run down of why we should have insurance. I am fully aware of and agree with the reason for having it. My concern was dealing with a broker who was telling us blatant lies. As it turns out, we are not legally obliged to have any cover whatsoever. The level we require is entirely determined by the client and what they require from us. The online broker was substantially more competitive than the local broker and was much easier to deal with.

My partner had cover at the time he was stopped but it was for 2.5million. More than enough to look after a mother and her 6 childeren, and possibly her grand childeren for that matter. If you think croneyism doesn't exist in Ireland, I think you should probably read more newspapers. The cheapest guy doesn't always get the job. Maybe somebody should rock the boat a bit but that will take up time I could be spending doing other jobs with far less hassle involved.

chahop

If it was me and I had the choice of buying my insurance locally of broker whos family has a few buisnesses around town, or online I know who I would go with.
You might save a few €100 online but you might get a job or two from your new contact.
As a buisness owner you have to appricate that if you give people your buisness they will give you theirs.

jimmmy

chahop wrote: »

If it was me and I had the choice of buying my insurance locally of broker whos family has a few buisnesses around town, or online I know who I would go with.
You might save a few €100 online but you might get a job or two from your new contact.
As a buisness owner you have to appricate that if you give people your buisness they will give you theirs.

+1. As I said earlier, if a private individual wanted his / her premises painted, there is nothing to stop him / her giving the contract to whoever they want. Its a free world, and you cannot force someone to give you a contract. Its their money they are spending.

Culchie

garbarrage wrote: »

Jimmmy, I wasn't asking for a run down of why we should have insurance. I am fully aware of and agree with the reason for having it. My concern was dealing with a broker who was telling us blatant lies. As it turns out, we are not legally obliged to have any cover whatsoever. The level we require is entirely determined by the client and what they require from us. The online broker was substantially more competitive than the local broker and was much easier to deal with.

My partner had cover at the time he was stopped but it was for 2.5million. More than enough to look after a mother and her 6 childeren, and possibly her grand childeren for that matter. If you think croneyism doesn't exist in Ireland, I think you should probably read more newspapers. The cheapest guy doesn't always get the job. Maybe somebody should rock the boat a bit but that will take up time I could be spending doing other jobs with far less hassle involved.

Hi,

I'm from Sligo and have a business there, I would recommend FBD's multi peril insurance policy. They will sit you down and go through your business with you and insure the aspects of your trade you require cover for, at a fair enough price.
I would be very surprised if you were not legally required to operate as a company without some form of public liability insurance.

Regarding your point on the cheapest guy doesn't get the job ..... of course he doesn't ....quality of work, reputation, punctuality, connections, referrals are far more important than price to someone seeking a tradesman such as yourself for their painting .... otherwise if they just wanted to save money, why wouldn't they do it themself?

slaine007

In my experience in Ireland only, it dosnt matter how good you are or how specialist the job is the job usually goes to someone who as either just bought a van,ladders,tools, & a pair of painters trouser's & branded themselves a painter or someone who is a 'friend of the' or cousin Micky Joe who is a dab hand at the aul painting.It is rare that the best painter gets the job.
Even in top specialist painting jobs or and especially PUBLIC SECTOR CONTRACTS.
Oh & shockingly historical restoration contracts are given to butchers.
It seems that anyone can call themselves a painter & decorator.
Plus some times little obsticals will be put in your way to stop you getting the job. I would just get the run of the mill Insurance that will cover you until you get a serious contract offer.

lucyw

I'm just wondering if it's obligatory to have public liability insurance if you're working as a tradesperson in Ireland. What if you do work for other people -i.e. you're subcontracted - and you don't have PLI. Do they automatically cover you as your 'employer'?

Thanks.

Gloomtastic!

Not sure if it's obligatory but if something does happen while you are working and you are responsible or negligent and you are uninsured, then you risk losing everything you own.

Employers Liability covers employees only and not Contractors.

Try www.Bizbroker.ie for a quote for PL insurance. They're the cheapest I've found.

Finally, it's considered bad form to resurrect old threads. You may get your knuckles rapped by a mod.....

lucyw

Thanks, Gloomtastic. I wander around on the internet not entirely sure about the protocols (rather like I do in physical space, actually). I appreciate the comment, though, both in the sense that the reply to the question was useful, and that the gentle nudge towards propriety might wake me up a bit. Might. Thanks again. I will now attempt to learn how to start a thread...