ESB Storage heating supply

nextbigthing

Hi i am replacing a storage heater for a friend,

the previous sparkie disconnected the twin brown coming from the ESB's Night time meter and never marked the cables.

I am trying to connect everything up again after replacing the storage heater
does anyone have any idea where the two esb wires go to i presume one of them becomes live at nighttime and engerises the contactor not sure what the other one does

if anyone had any Ideas/wiring diagrams it would be greatly appreciated.

Bruthal

nextbigthing wrote: »

Hi i am replacing a storage heater for a friend,

the previous sparkie disconnected the twin brown coming from the ESB's Night time meter and never marked the cables.

I am trying to connect everything up again after replacing the storage heater
does anyone have any idea where the two esb wires go to i presume one of them becomes live at nighttime and engerises the contactor not sure what the other one does

if anyone had any Ideas/wiring diagrams it would be greatly appreciated.

It looks like its a feed to the contact on the meter and return. The contact closes according to the timer at the ESB meter and so one of the cores in the twin brown is live from the house mcb board, (usually a 6amp control mcb for the storage heating), and into ESB meter contact, and returns on other brown to energise the storage heating contactor in the MCB board when the ESB meter contact closes. So you should see a pair of terminals for the storage heating contact at the meter. I used to do metering myself years ago, but have`t seen them in a few years. Im not sure if the meter contact terminals are open to contractor connecting or not.

Also how old is the installation. A few years ago the esb had a seperate timeclock beside the meter, usually a curcular one with clear front plastic window. The contacts for bringing in the heating where in that. Newer ones i think have the timer and contact in the meter itself. But as i say i have`t done anything on them in a few years

M cebee

ya. they're mostly 100amp digital now single/dual tarriff is all the one unit
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055776121&highlight=iskra

If it's the 'control pair' on the consumer side.One will come from a 6amp mcb or whatever and the return will energize the contactor via whatever controls are being used(devireg,stats etc.)

Bruthal

M cebee wrote: »

ya. they're mostly 100amp digital now single/dual tarriff is all the one unit
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055776121&highlight=iskra

there is nothing you can do at the meter cabinet yourself

We are able to connect the tails into isolator at side of meter unit on some i was at a year ago, there was a contractor accesible isolator was`t there? This old age definitely kicking in i think:)

Bruthal

M cebee wrote: »

ya. they're mostly 100amp digital now single/dual tarriff is all the one unit
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055776121&highlight=iskra

If it's the 'control pair' on the consumer side.One will come from a 6amp mcb or whatever and the return will energize the contactor via whatever controls are being used(devireg,stats etc.)

Ha Ha i thought i said that. Although i would`t say there is any thermostat controls controlling storage heating except there own internal stats.

But ye never know these days, nothing would surprise me.

M cebee

The devireg is fairly common with nightsaver.
A stat was used in bygone days

but they can operate ok with no 'main' input control

i thought at first he was referring to the meter cabinet, but i think he means the control pair at the fuseboard side

Bruthal

M cebee wrote: »

The devireg is fairly common with nightsaver.
A stat was used in bygone days

but they can operate ok with no 'main' input control

i thought at first he was referring to the meter cabinet, but i think he means the control pair at the fuseboard side

Yes looking again your right, thats what i thought was being said as well,
so its just 6 amp control MCB into one of the browns in the twin brown and the other brown into the contactor coil. Assuming the twin brown is to do with the storage heating.

Just as matter of interest i never seen storage heaters with any input control external to the heaters, i used to install them 20 years ago. I mean if the heater is heating up during the night the only control i seen was to regulate the amount of heat that was put into the blocks in them via the input stat. I suppose the devi reg compared outside and inside temperatures of house and controlled it that way.

But the majority of electrical i did since that time 20 years ago was industrial.

M cebee

the daytime heater would be regulated with a regular wall stat
to bring it on in evening when stored heat is gone

the devireg uses an outdoor probe to compensate for changes in temperature.i've mostly use it for NSH.

Bruthal

M cebee wrote: »

the daytime heater would be regulated with a regular wall stat
to bring it on in evening when stored heat is gone

the devireg uses an outdoor probe to compensate for changes in temperature.i've mostly use it for NSH.

Yes i have`t been near the storage heaters in a long time. I dont miss them. I`ve put in more rads than storage heaters now i`d say

RoundyMooney

As said, send out a phase on one, via a 6A MCB, and you will get one back between 2300 and 0800 to energise your contactor.

You cannot do anything with these at the meter end.

JOHNPT

Is there anyway for testing that the timeclock works without calling out the ESB? I had a problem recently whereby the storage heaters stopped coming on at night time. I energised the contactor myself and everything seemed to be working fine and the heaters were pulling 18 amps. There was a devi reg also but im not that familiar with them. Is it possible to do a resistance reading at the fuseboard to check the timeclock is working?Thanks

M cebee

you just ring and report the fault if the esb timing is faulty

ie:if you don't get a switched live back at the right time(for nightsaver)

just make sure there isn't a problem on the consumers control side

davelerave

JOHNPT

Thanks for your reply Davelerave. Do u know those the switch live come back to the contactor or through the Devi Reg and then to the contactor. I dont fully understand the wiring or testing of Devi Reg. How do i check that this is not causing a problem?

M cebee

the esb do the basic timing via the 'control pair'

the devireg regulates the input to the heaters .

if you search this forum you'll get info on the lights and a link to 'pdf'
there's been tons of questions

RoundyMooney

You could check the time on the clock to make sure it isn't out, but that's about it really.

Give ESB a shout if things aren't right.

Effects

I don't want to start a new thread so adding to this one. Having problem getting storage heaters to come on, they are on a devireg 710. I've found a pdf to a similar devireg unit but not the exact one. Everything looks connected properly so all I can think of is a problem with the devireg or the esb timeclock. I'm going to bypass the devireg to see if the esb clock will bring the contactor on tonight. At the 6A MCB I have two twin browns, the leg on one pair goes to the neutral bar and one leg of the other pair to off peak connection on the devireg. I presume one pair of twin brown, the one that connects to the neutral bar is a supply for the clock and that the other pair is just the switched supply from the clock? Any help much appreciated.

Effects

Anyone?

M cebee

http://www.devi.co.uk/downloads/devireg/08095671.pdf

supply is 5&6
off-peak signal is 4

contact is 1&2


check probe resistance anyhow

Effects

Cheers for the reply. Looks like it's a problem with the esb timeclock so I'll have to call them to come take a look at it.