Should the Tourist Tax be dropped completely?

johngalway

With the drop in over seas tourists visiting Ireland, plus the general state of the economy, should the €10 tourist tax be dropped as a matter of urgency?

As an Island nation I think we're shooting ourselves in the foot making it more expensive for visitors to come here.

Poly

Of course it should, Hotels, bars, tour guides etc should be offering €10 discounts to tourists who book holidays here as a way of apologising for our shambolic government policies.

Nehaxak

Hardly going to improve things by removing it but it just shouldn't be there in the first place, stupid thing to impose any tax on tourists, especially in a small country that has very little to offer any tourists in the first place other than rain, pubs, more rain, rain, bit of snow once in a while, rain, rain, another pub, rain, oh look there's a pub, rain rain rain la la la...

slimjimmc

Many other EU countries have a departure tax which is higher than ours, the bigger island to our East is one and will be increasing it for the 2nd year in a row.

Toursist aren't concerned about paying a €10 a head to fly home , they're more concerned about the high cost to stay here i.e. hotels, food, drink, transport.

Poly

Yes, but many EU countries are accessible by Rail and road also, so tourists have an option. We're isolated and rely heavily on tourism. Remember it's €10 a head. That hits families and group packages

Overheal

You charge me a whole ten euro to visit?!!?!?!?!?!?!?

Well I NEVER :mad: I guess my business will be with Czechslovakia from now on! Hmph!

/honestly.

johngalway

Overheal wrote: »

/honestly.

:rolleyes:

bijapos

No I don't think they should. Most people don't notice it anyway. They book a €9.99 ticket and accept that it's €37.83 (eg) after tax. Nobody is going to avoid this country because of €10. Ryanair charge €10 for virtually all credit cards but people still fly with them.

However, what the government could do, is do a deal with Aer Lingus, Ryanair and others and agree to buy say 100,000 flights at say €30 return and give these away for free to european tourists. Total outlay would be €3,000,000 plus administration and advertising.

No idea how much it would bring in but having a condition that the buyer spends a minimum of 2 (or 3 or 4 or more) nights here and introduce free public transport for OAP's for the few days they are here would bring in tens (if not hundreds) of millions in revenue and create/save jobs in the tourism sector. Just an idea, it's been spouted a number of times but never tried.

RachPie

I think that's purely ridiculous. We're charging people to come here, when our tourism rates are already dwindling? Seems like the government really want us to stay in recession, the way they're going on.

bijapos

There are a lot of reasons people have stopped coming here, it's now very expensive, lost some of it's charm and friendliness. we need to encourage them to come here, using a carrot like free flights might work.

RachPie

http://www.lonelyplanet.com/ireland/practical-information/money-costs

Well, if Ireland is going to be advertised like this, it's no wonder people don't want to come here. I know it's the truth, but if I was a tourist from the outside, I'd rather spend my money on a bit of sun rather than in rainy, expensive Dublin.

Red_Marauder

RachPie wrote: »

http://www.lonelyplanet.com/ireland/practical-information/money-costs

Well, if Ireland is going to be advertised like this, it's no wonder people don't want to come here. I know it's the truth, but if I was a tourist from the outside, I'd rather spend my money on a bit of sun rather than in rainy, expensive Dublin.

In fairness I'd be interested to know when those prices were researched - a few things, especially the cost of eating out, seems rather inflated now. You can eat out for very good value in a lot of places these days.

But in general, yes. The cost of visiting Ireland is far more prohibitive than is the airport tax. Lots of countries have a similiar kind of tax and I'm sure most tourists don't even notice that we have it. What they do notice are over-priced hotel rooms, snotty attitudes, and being charged ten euro for a pint of beer and an orange juice.

irlandanews

Poly wrote: »

Of course it should, Hotels, bars, tour guides etc should be offering €10 discounts to tourists who book holidays here as a way of apologising for our shambolic government policies.

I agree that tourists should be offered €10 discounts instead of being forced to pay such amount in tax, but not because of your government.

The reason is that the price of hotels and food in Ireland is higher than in other EU countries. I guess Irish hoteliers and restaurateurs could only charge tourists less if wages in Ireland were lower because if they were to compete with, let´s say, Spain and Italy, they´d probably break in the process as they have to pay their staff higher wages in Ireland.

In other words, the problem is deeper than charging tourists €10 in tax . The cost of living and employment in Ireland has to be reduced so that the tourism scenery changes.

Now the truth is that no tourist tax will stop tourism in Ireland completely because it´s considered such a magical place. Visitors don´t mind the rain, cold and wind. But if the government could make Ireland attractive from a financial point of view they wouldn´t miss out on another 1 million visitors like they did last year.

gandalf

Well given whats discussed in this Article in todays Independent I think we need to be doing as much as possible to attract people to Ireland.

IRELAND'S tourism industry is in crisis, having lost one million visitors and €900m in revenue last year.......

TBH I don't think the ten euro charge is the problem here as others have pointed out some of our neighbours charge more. Its the perception that there is no value for money in Ireland, that you will get ripped off if you come here. Until that is countered and better value becomes a reality we will struggle to get people especially as times are tough in their countries as well.

markpb

RachPie wrote: »

Well, if Ireland is going to be advertised like this, it's no wonder people don't want to come here. I know it's the truth, but if I was a tourist from the outside, I'd rather spend my money on a bit of sun rather than in rainy, expensive Dublin.

I think people need to get over the idea that we have a rainy climate or that it puts off tourists. Our climate isn't so bad and we get millions of tourists every year. Clearly the weather isn't a factor. High cost of accommodation, entertainment and food, poor public transport, poor multi-lingual facilities (DAA signs are in English and Irish but not French, Spanish or German), the loss of our reputation for being friendly and helpful and a global recession all play a huge part in the reducing numbers.

I try to go on holidays to cities here instead of abroad but I can't justify it anymore. Intercity rail to Cork is more expensive than flying to other local cities. The public transport when I get there is pretty poor. The standard of food in restaurants isn't great (although I find Dublin much better now because the better restaurants have a lot of special offers.) Hotels are a rip off. I recently had to go to Belmullet, Co. Mayo for a weekend. The town has two hotels - one charges €120 per night and is acceptable but nothing special. The other charges €70 for a box room. Neither makes a huge impression on tourists which is odd for an area that should be making a killing from tourism. (Again, Dublin is a lot better because of the huge number of hotel rooms.)

Lastly, there's a big chunk of tourists want to take weekend breaks to cities. When they look at Ireland, we have three cities - Dublin, Belfast and Cork. The rest are too small and lack any unique tourist attractions. (I'm not insulting any of those cities btw.)

Joey the lips

I would love to believe that the tourist tax is stopping people visiting Ireland but I dont. I would love if michael o leary truly believed it but he does not.

Its the biggest load of trip i have heard in years tbh.

Tourist " Let me see I will go to spain because its 10 euro cheaper than ireland" Utter claptrap.

I could not care less about it and TBH if its a source of taxation that prevents the govt taking it from me then so be it...

anymore

slimjimmc wrote: »

Many other EU countries have a departure tax which is higher than ours, the bigger island to our East is one and will be increasing it for the 2nd year in a row.

Toursist aren't concerned about paying a €10 a head to fly home , they're more concerned about the high cost to stay here i.e. hotels, food, drink, transport.

Over the past ten years, the nautire of irish tourism has changed and short term visits, mainly to cities, have become an increasingly important part of irish tourism and a lot of this has been generated by cheap air travel. Much of this air travel comes as a result of impulse buying of cheap air tickets, soevery addtional cost that increases the cost of direct air travel reduces this type of travel.
The explanation that UK may have a higher departure tax is irrelevant as they also have higher Corporation tax - the UK is more concerned at whether they should build an extra runway at Heathrow or build a new airport for London than in airport taxes.
Even if you do get a free air ticket, you are still talking about € 70 approx in airport taxes on a return trip, so of course this is significant to casual air travellers.

Mr. Presentable

I wouldn't want the kind of tourist who can't afford a €10.00 tax for a holiday.

anymore

Joey the lips wrote: »

I would love to believe that the tourist tax is stopping people visiting Ireland but I dont. I would love if michael o leary truly believed it but he does not.

Its the biggest load of trip i have heard in years tbh.

Tourist " Let me see I will go to spain because its 10 euro cheaper than ireland" Utter claptrap.

I could not care less about it and TBH if its a source of taxation that prevents the govt taking it from me then so be it...

Perhaps money is no problem to you, but to many air travellers, value for money is important. You dont understand why air travel has grown so much in the past ten years.
I have most of my holidays in Ireland but have started holidaying abroad in last couple of years. Ireland is expensive and getting dirtier and dirtier and more of our scenic rural areas are becoming urbanised and now to top it off, windmill farms are spreading accross our natural beauty spots,
Would I recommend ireland as a holiday spot now ? Probably not.

markpb

nipplenuts wrote: »

I wouldn't want the kind of tourist who can't afford a €10.00 tax for a holiday.

Don't be a snob. Isn't it better they come here and spend any money than spend it something else?

I know plenty of people (although less now) who go to Ryanair.com, check out prices for various European cities and go to the cheapest. I'm sure this happens abroad too. €10 won't break them but it could unnecessarily put Ireland out of contention for European travellers.

anymore

nipplenuts wrote: »

I wouldn't want the kind of tourist who can't afford a €10.00 tax for a holiday.

It is a question of value for money - have you heard there is a recession in Europe.
Besides which, Europe is full of beautiful alternatives to ireland where food is cheaper and better quality, where cities are truly beautiful and not the dirty holes which seems to be the natural state of so many Irish towns and cities.
We seemd to have deluded ourselves that there are milllions of people queuing up to get into Ireland !

Joey the lips

anymore wrote: »

Perhaps money is no problem to you, but to many air travellers, value for money is important. You dont understand why air travel has grown so much in the past ten years.
I have most of my holidays in Ireland but have started holidaying abroad in last couple of years. Ireland is expensive and getting dirtier and dirtier and more of our scenic rural areas are becoming urbanised and now to top it off, windmill farms are spreading accross our natural beauty spots,
Would I recommend ireland as a holiday spot now ? Probably not.

Your a very funny person tbh.... You have actually answered the very reason people come to ireland. Personally if i wanted to travel to Spain or sweden, to beautiful countries for totally different reasons it would not be the 10 euro clearly that would influence me...

But you believe what you want I gave my opinion.

anymore

deadtiger wrote: »

Well given whats discussed in this Article in todays Independent I think we need to be doing as much as possible to attract people to Ireland.



TBH I don't think the ten euro charge is the problem here as others have pointed out some of our neighbours charge more. Its the perception that there is no value for money in Ireland, that you will get ripped off if you come here. Until that is countered and better value becomes a reality we will struggle to get people especially as times are tough in their countries as well.

If € 10 doesnt affect numbers buying tickets to travel, why do Aer Lingus and Ryanair spend so much on cut price offers ?
Ryanair and Aer Lingus are responsible for supporting a huge chunk of ireland's tourism now !
Why do think Aldi and Lideil have caused Tesci to chnge its pricing policies in order to try to compete with them ? It is about value for money.
No wonder this country is up the spout.

anymore

Joey the lips wrote: »

Your a very funny person tbh.... You have actually answered the very reason people come to ireland. Personally if i wanted to travel to Spain or sweden, to beautiful countries for totally different reasons it would not be the 10 euro clearly that would influence me...

But you believe what you want I gave my opinion.

Have you ever been in the retail business ?
The fall in tourist numbers tell their own story. We have a tourist product that is becoming increasingly uncometitive, All of the western world was mired in a recession, so we put up the price of entry to ireland :eek::eek:.

Joey the lips

anymore wrote: »

Have you ever been in the retail business ?
The fall in tourist numbers tell their own story. We have a tourist product that is becoming increasingly uncometitive, All of the western world was mired in a recession, so we put up the price of entry to ireland :eek::eek:.

Yes I have been in the retail business. Are you telling me tourist travel here for the retail end. Keep digging your clearly dillusional.

Ireland is a expensive country and will never be nothing less for a long time.

Like I said...

"Let me see will I travel to Dublin or stockholm...... Hummmmm

Yes dublin is 10 euro more so I will go to stockholm...."



dream on michael.... dream on....

anymore

Joey the lips wrote: »

Yes I have been in the retail business. Are you telling me tourist travel here for the retail end. Keep digging your clearly dillusional.

Ireland is a expensive country and will never be nothing less for a long time.

Like I said...

"Let me see will I travel to Dublin or stockholm...... Hummmmm

Yes dublin is 10 euro more so I will go to stockholm...."

dream on michael.... dream on....

#
Is Michael O leary hating the new national pass time ?

Joey the lips

anymore wrote: »

#
Is Michael O leary hating the new national pass time ?

Cant stand the man... No denying he has made it cheaper to fly though..


However I think he is a fool when it comes to the travel tax but I am guessing every time he opens his mouth it drives up his share value.

johngalway

The country is no doubt over priced, relatively poor service and food and lodgings compared to other destinations.

I don't agree that the weather outs people off. People coming to Ireland will expect our weather, they do their research just as we would choosing a destination.

I think the tourist tax contributes to the negative effect on tourist numbers coming here. The free flights is a good idea. But I would drop the tax also.

I think insurance and related prices for goods and services being supplied to the tourist industry is just as big a factor, if not bigger, than staff wages.

It's a bit like which came first, the chicken or the egg? Which do you do first, drop prices and wages, or the cost of living. More painful decisions to be made.

Regarding the point someone made that the €10 the tourist pays means it's €10 less they themselves have to pay, I would also disagree there. Because more tourists means more revenue for the country as a whole, they will contribute to B&B's, Hotels , restaurants, public transport, car hire, pubs, all of whom pay tax.

Having more people enter the country means more money coming in, I don't see how that's a bad thing.

anymore

johngalway wrote: »

The country is no doubt over priced, relatively poor service and food and lodgings compared to other destinations.

I don't agree that the weather outs people off. People coming to Ireland will expect our weather, they do their research just as we would choosing a destination.

I think the tourist tax contributes to the negative effect on tourist numbers coming here. The free flights is a good idea. But I would drop the tax also.

I think insurance and related prices for goods and services being supplied to the tourist industry is just as big a factor, if not bigger, than staff wages.

It's a bit like which came first, the chicken or the egg? Which do you do first, drop prices and wages, or the cost of living. More painful decisions to be made.

Regarding the point someone made that the €10 the tourist pays means it's €10 less they themselves have to pay, I would also disagree there. Because more tourists means more revenue for the country as a whole, they will contribute to B&B's, Hotels , restaurants, public transport, car hire, pubs, all of whom pay tax.

Having more people enter the country means more money coming in, I don't see how that's a bad thing.

I spoke to an english woman last year who had spent four days in Cork because she was able to get an all in airline ticket for £ 20 in the UK. She said at that price it was too good to miss - she hadnt been intending to take a break anywhere. She said she had spent over €300 at elast in Cork. All money that would have stayed in the UK but for the availability of a cheap £20 plane ticket. Its basic economics; do you want to maximise revenue or not ?

johngalway

anymore wrote: »

I spoke to an english woman last year who had spent four days in Cork because she was able to get an all in airline ticket for £ 20 in the UK. She said at that price it was too good to miss - she hadnt been intending to take a break anywhere. She said she had spent over €300 at elast in Cork. All money that would have stayed in the UK but for the availability of a cheap £20 plane ticket. Its basic economics; do you want to maximise revenue or not ?

I missed where I said cheap plane tickets were a bad thing

I said getting more people to come into this country can only be a good thing. But, it is an expensive place to stay, eat, and buy in. The tourist tax wouldn't be missed, as revenue from what people spend would more than make up for it.

gandalf

anymore wrote: »

If € 10 doesnt affect numbers buying tickets to travel, why do Aer Lingus and Ryanair spend so much on cut price offers ?
Ryanair and Aer Lingus are responsible for supporting a huge chunk of ireland's tourism now !
Why do think Aldi and Lideil have caused Tesci to chnge its pricing policies in order to try to compete with them ? It is about value for money.
No wonder this country is up the spout.

Yes but that €10 pales into insignificant to the cost of food and accommodation here and although that is dropping we still have the reputation as an expensive place to come visit.

I agree dropping the €10 tax would be a good start but it will not fix problems of other costs and deficiencies with infrastructure.



I normally go for multiple short trips in Europe with my wife for holidays (rather than one big one) and while airline ticket costs are important its the cost of accomodation and eating out that will make the bulk of our costs. With the exception of one place I have visited in the last couple of years (that was Oslo two weeks ago) Ireland is far more expensive to stay in and eat out in.

anymore

johngalway wrote: »

I missed where I said cheap plane tickets were a bad thing

I said getting more people to come into this country can only be a good thing. But, it is an expensive place to stay, eat, and buy in. The tourist tax wouldn't be missed, as revenue from what people spend would more than make up for it.

Sorry, I didnt intend to suggest you had said cheap flights were a bad thing !:eek:
I agree with you toatlly about tax revenue not being missed.
In fact I dont understand why the airport authorities dont combine with Aer lingus and Ryanair to do joint promotions in cutting ticket prices and taxes for quiet periods. They all have an interest in maximising numbers passing through Irish airports. If our airports were privately owned, I imagine they would.

johngalway

anymore wrote: »

Sorry, I didnt intend to suggest you had said cheap flights were a bad thing !:eek:

No worries, I was kinda wondering where that was coming from

anymore

deadtiger wrote: »

Yes but that €10 pales into insignificant to the cost of food and accommodation here and although that is dropping we still have the reputation as an expensive place to come visit.

I agree dropping the €10 tax would be a good start but it will not fix problems of other costs and deficiencies with infrastructure.



I normally go for multiple short trips in Europe with my wife for holidays (rather than one big one) and while airline ticket costs are important its the cost of accomodation and eating out that will make the bulk of our costs. With the exception of one place I have visited in the last couple of years (that was Oslo two weeks ago) Ireland is far more expensive to stay in and eat out in.

I agree with you on most points. But I suppose i am looking at myself over the last two years and cheap flights have been the impulse for the majority of the trips I have made. The fact that eating out where I go is also much cheaper is also relevant in the decision making process.

dogbert27

It's not so much about the €10 as a stand alone cost. It's the psychological factor to the consumer.

"What? Ireland is charging €10 to visit it where as Holland and Belgium have gotten rid of that tax? I know where I'm going!"

Worked as a milkman in the mid 90's. The cost of a pint went up by 1p. The amount of grief I got at the doors from customers because their bill went up was unbelievable. This was from customers who took 7 pints of milk a week, a whopping 7p weekly increase!

The psychological factor of travel is just the same as any retail sector.

My sister goes to Lidl, Supervalu and Tesco all on the one shopping trip to pick up the bargains in each shop that would be more expensive in the competing shop. It takes her more time and uses up more petrol but in her head she's making savings every week.

The €10 tax might not make a difference in terms of breaking a persons budget but it does give a negative psychological impression to anybody who is thinking of visiting the country.

markpb

It's slightly off-topic but there's an article in this morning's Metro/Herald saying that a survey of hotels by Hotels.com puts Ireland cheapest of all Western European countries and fourth cheapest of all European countries with an average of €80, down from €101 two months ago. The survey also says that Dublin is the cheapest city in Western Europe at an average of €76. Good news for Ireland!

Edit: This could be the survey.

anymore

dogbert27 wrote: »

It's not so much about the €10 as a stand alone cost. It's the psychological factor to the consumer.

"What? Ireland is charging €10 to visit it where as Holland and Belgium have gotten rid of that tax? I know where I'm going!"

Worked as a milkman in the mid 90's. The cost of a pint went up by 1p. The amount of grief I got at the doors from customers because their bill went up was unbelievable. This was from customers who took 7 pints of milk a week, a whopping 7p weekly increase!

The psychological factor of travel is just the same as any retail sector.

My sister goes to Lidl, Supervalu and Tesco all on the one shopping trip to pick up the bargains in each shop that would be more expensive in the competing shop. It takes her more time and uses up more petrol but in her head she's making savings every week.

The €10 tax might not make a difference in terms of breaking a persons budget but it does give a negative psychological impression to anybody who is thinking of visiting the country.

Excellent points. Indeed the same outpuring of calamity is expressed when the pint is increased !
I do now pay a great deal more attention to groceries on special offer and buy accordingly.
Your first comment regarding the psychological effect should be emailed to every TD and Minister.
I think one of the disadvantages of high salaries for politicians is that they completely lose touch with the economic realities that apply to many ordinary people. If you have a husband/wife abd three kids, that € 10 euro tax is an extra € 40 euro. Or taking all taxes and charges on a return journey, say between ireland and Germany, 4 x € 70 = € 280.