Great Bill Starr article for the sportspeople

Barry.Oglesby

really good article.

http://informedperformance.com/2010/02/keeping-strength/

d'Oracle

Obviously as I am such a loyal adherent of Rippetoe and his methods and therefore a regular reader of Startingstrength.com I have read this already.:p

Tis an interesting article.

podge57

its amazing how obvious everything he says is, yet lots of people still do the opposite

I love all Starr's stuff, like Rippetoe he's really old-school, but never gets the same sort of publicity

d'Oracle

podge57 wrote: »

I love all Starr's stuff, like Rippetoe he's really old-school, but never gets the same sort of publicity

I have heard Rip give serious lip service to him.
Sort of saying that all his stuff is basically Starr's stuff.

d'Oracle

Kinda wanted to post this but didnt want to start a new thread.#
Tis an article about overhead pressing by Starr.

What you want to read into the Olympic press is up to you.

But I thought his comments on the Press in general and why BP was put in to the 5x5 are really interesting.

http://startingstrength.com/articles/olympic_press_starr.pdf

Edwardius

d'Oracle wrote: »

Kinda wanted to post this but didnt want to start a new thread.#
Tis an article about overhead pressing by Starr.

What you want to read into the Olympic press is up to you.

But I thought his comments on the Press in general and why BP was put in to the 5x5 are really interesting.

http://startingstrength.com/articles/olympic_press_starr.pdf

Read that earlier, spent a while trying to figure how the hell he made the press sound more complicated than a jerk! Nothing more to add to the conversation other than a video of an offensively strong small chinese man clean and jerking three times his weight

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jGCHDUJtkts

Nate--IRL--

Holy **** at that video!

Nate

Edwardius

Starr wrote:

Whenever someone tells me he’s feeling a twinge right where his rotator cuffs
are located, I have him do overhead presses to strengthen the weak area, standing dumbbell or barbell
presses done with fairly high reps – 15s and 20s – and if the injury is not advanced, the presses solve
the problem in a month or six weeks.

I did think this bit was interesting. Does this mean that all those band things and lying-cable-external-rotations-on-swiss-ball type shoulder rehab stuff is unnecessary (unless the cuff is completely fooked) and that just pressing will sort everything out? I've seen a bunch of internet arguments where one side was arguing that just pressing will balance out the shoulders while others reckon that you'll die immediately if you don't work your external rotators right now. Anyone have any actual knowledgez on this?

Barry.Oglesby

Yup. I'm not sure what Starr is referring to directly there as it's hard to just pull stuff out of an article and say that's his total opinion on the matter.

I think the broad point he is trying to make there is that people do too much bench pressing and not enough overhead. As with anything though, people will take what they want out of that and turn it on it's head to suit their view. That being said, I'm (fingers crossed) free of a shoulder issue I'd been having and I would attribute it's dissapearance to high rep overhead pressing and dips in my programme. *pause for dramatic effect* ALONG with all the band work etc.

In short, do all the other shoulder stuff, the worst that can happen is that it will do you no harm.

Khannie

Nate--IRL-- wrote: »

Holy **** at that video!

Nate

+1 :eek:

d'Oracle

Dead Ed wrote: »

I did think this bit was interesting. Does this mean that all those band things and lying-cable-external-rotations-on-swiss-ball type shoulder rehab stuff is unnecessary (unless the cuff is completely fooked) and that just pressing will sort everything out?

I don't think so.
He is, I believe, referring to an observation with relation to mild shoulder troubles.

d'Oracle

Dead Ed wrote: »

Read that earlier, spent a while trying to figure how the hell he made the press sound more complicated than a jerk!

Different press, innit.

Chet Zar

Think of it like this - get into a position where you're lying on your back. Next, pretend you're pushing something directly overhead from that position. Then ask yourself - how many times during the past year have I had to perform this movement in this position?

Next, stand up on your two feet. Pretend you're pushing something directly overhead. Then ask yourself how many times during the past year have I had to perform this movement in this position?

For some people there won't be much difference between the two answers. For lots of people, though, I'm gonna guess you do a lot more of the standing movement than the lying down one.

One fact that few people are likely aware of is that the standing press was farrrr more popular, commonplace and prescribed than the bench press until....well, until the bench came along.

Barry.Oglesby

Chet Zar wrote: »

Think of it like this - get into a position where you're lying on your back. Next, pretend you're pushing something directly overhead from that position. Then ask yourself - how many times during the past year have I had to perform this movement in this position?

Next, stand up on your two feet. Pretend you're pushing something directly overhead. Then ask yourself how many times during the past year have I had to perform this movement in this position?

I think it's a fundamental error to relate the movements you do in the gym too closely to any movements you do outside. You don't bench so that you can one day bench people/horses/cars off you one day, you bench for upper body strength. You also press overhead for upper body strength. maybe that was your point anyway.

The real danger is dogmatic sticking to one exercise over the other. Unless your goal is to get a bigger bench or press, they should be viewed as tools to get to the destination, not as the destination itself.

d'Oracle

Chet Zar wrote: »

Think of it like this - get into a position where you're lying on your back. Next, pretend you're pushing something directly overhead from that position. Then ask yourself - how many times during the past year have I had to perform this movement in this position?

Next, stand up on your two feet. Pretend you're pushing something directly overhead. Then ask yourself how many times during the past year have I had to perform this movement in this position?

For some people there won't be much difference between the two answers. For lots of people, though, I'm gonna guess you do a lot more of the standing movement than the lying down one.

While lying on ones back and pushing something skyward is not something one will usually do, pushing something in a direction perpendicular to the chest is. So if I am standing up and need to push something away to the front of me, I will be more effective at doing so if I am also capable of benching a lot.

I think Rippetoe suggests in his book that the Pushup would be a better exercise than the Bench, if it could be weighted safely and effectively to the levels of the bench press. As it stands without parallel bars, a harness and a deathwish, that is not really feasible.

That said I cant really add much more than Barry has said, while the bench is great and all, its one press out of many.

J-Fit

Chet Zar wrote: »

Think of it like this - get into a position where you're lying on your back. Next, pretend you're pushing something directly overhead from that position. Then ask yourself - how many times during the past year have I had to perform this movement in this position?

Next, stand up on your two feet. Pretend you're pushing something directly overhead. Then ask yourself how many times during the past year have I had to perform this movement in this position?

For some people there won't be much difference between the two answers. For lots of people, though, I'm gonna guess you do a lot more of the standing movement than the lying down one.

One fact that few people are likely aware of is that the standing press was farrrr more popular, commonplace and prescribed than the bench press until....well, until the bench came along.

My own opinion on this changes day to day! For sports guys I'd usually prefer the OH press but then you have the lumbar extension issue as guys try to outdo themselves with more weight. I think you have to weigh up the risk reward ratio. Bench Presses can definately serve a purpose in that regard.

While I don't believe in replicating the sporting movement in the gym (those golf club/baseball bat handles that can now be attached to cable columns are ridiculous) I do think that similar motor patterns should be employed to establish a neural familiarity with the sporting movement. i.e. I've had fantastic results while utilising the cable chop/lift progression with golfers but would never attempt to replicate the swing in the gym.

token

With all this talk of pressing..I thought this was pretty damn impressive.

d'Oracle

token wrote: »

With all this talk of pressing..I thought this was pretty damn impressive.

Thats nearly 10x what I was pressing last night.
I'm so ****ing weak.

J-Fit

token wrote: »

With all this talk of pressing..I thought this was pretty damn impressive.

Unreal. I was waiting for him to drop the hips and split jerk it and he just presses it from a dead stop. Serious strength.