Has anyone ever heard of these peacekeeping incidents?

wayne0308

Hi all,

I'm trying to find out about two incidents (that I'm aware of, possibly more) where Irish peacekeepers were fired upon by Israeli soldiers. I think one of the incidents was fairly recent and the other I think involved Israeli paramilitaries not long after Irish peacekeepers were sent down there.

If anyone knows of these or any similar incidents I'd appreciate it greatly. I've been getting more and more interested in the Irish involvement in peacekeeping or the years and can't for the life of me find any information on these.

Thanks a million.

gizmo555

There were allegations, very well documented in Robert Fisk's excellent Pity the Nation: Lebanon at War, that an Israeli military intelligence officer was present when Privates Derek Smallhorn and Thomas Barrett were murdered on April 18, 1980 by south Lebanese militia supplied and controlled by Israel.

More here:

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=VrXpeELOUNsC&pg=PA152&lpg=PA152&dq=smallhorn+and+barrett&source=bl&ots=MS9tO0DN2e&sig=iTN8M5THwXjEINfON_9UkX764xw&hl=en&ei=V66GS8HiBZS7jAf3kdWVDw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=3&ved=0CAwQ6AEwAg#v=onepage&q=smallhorn%20and%20barrett&f=false

wayne0308

Excellent, thanks a million for the info.

airvan

I don't know much about Israeli attacks on the army but they regularly came under fire from their proxies the South Lebanon Army. I don't know if there's such a thing as 'Israeli paramilitaries' more like Lebanese paramilitaries allied with Israel.

I wonder is there a decent book on the whole Lebanon experience of the army? It really ought to be documented properly, the good and the bad.

PeterIanStaker

theres a book called Irishbatt by Henry McDonald, it deals with Ireland's contribution to UNIFIL; although there are a few innaccuracies its an ok read.

Fishtits

Irish forces were fired on by the Israeli backed SLA on a regular basis, one excuse I heard many times was that they were cleaning their weapons - fire a round... no particular aim. In one instance it just happened to hit a paddy in the chest...

I hate impunity.

SlabMurphy

Fishtits wrote: »

Irish forces were fired on by the Israeli backed SLA on a regular basis, one excuse I heard many times was that they were cleaning their weapons - fire a round... no particular aim. In one instance it just happened to hit a paddy in the chest...

I hate impunity.

" one excuse I heard many times was that they were cleaning their weapons - fire a round... no particular aim. In one instance it just happened to hit a paddy in the chest... " That's one I too often heard from the Brits.

Brits/Isreali's, basically the same scum.

Le King

SlabMurphy wrote: »

" one excuse I heard many times was that they were cleaning their weapons - fire a round... no particular aim. In one instance it just happened to hit a paddy in the chest... " That's one I too often heard from the Brits.

Brits/Isreali's, basically the same scum.

From this comment I have already decided that I like you.

Manic Moran

I query your taste.

Mr Murphy has been repeatedly warned in the past for dragging threads off-topic in order to get a dig in at the British. He is not going to have the opportunity to do so again, at least on military, for a couple of weeks.

Compounded by apostrophe abuse, one of my pet peeves.

NTM

arybvtcw0eolkf

Fishtits wrote: »

Irish forces were fired on by the Israeli backed SLA on a regular basis, one excuse I heard many times was that they were cleaning their weapons - fire a round... no particular aim. In one instance it just happened to hit a paddy in the chest...

I hate impunity.

First off I suspect your talking about the lad killed with the 64th Bn in Haddatha (UN 6:38A), I'm not going to print his name here. At the time there was activity in the village and firing from Haddatha compound, the lad was hit in the chest by a .50cal.

I've never heard of 'excuses' put forward from the IDF/SLA the the AO was in a war zone so there was lots of reason's for firing from the compounds, and less so the PV's.

What used to happen a lot, esp. around the OP's were the IDF/SLA doing a 'recce by fire'.

OP, UNIFIL had a magazine 'Litani'. Some older copies are available online, if you search them at the back page Latani usually printed a summary of incidents in UNIFIL's area of operations. You might find some stories there.

What you won't really find is Irish soldiers telling stories from Lebanon. On some of the more active trips firings close (anything from small arms fire to mortars to tanks to 155mm M109's to arial bombardment), they went largely un-reported here and were more or less considered a routine occurance by the time the lads were a few weeks in to a tour.

dahamster

Elian Quiet Outfield wrote: »

What you won't really find is Irish soldiers telling stories from Lebanon. On some of the more active trips firings close (anything from small arms fire to mortars to tanks to 155mm M109's to arial bombardment), they went largely un-reported here and were more or less considered a routine occurance by the time the lads were a few weeks in to a tour.

+1. Leb stories are only suitable for throwing breaks anyway. No need to get the families worked up at home over what were regular instances. I can't remember the number of times saying "sure thats miles away from here" when questioned about stuff reported on the news at home. Only downfall was my girlfriend was convinced that nothing at all happened in the irish ao. Swanbatt indeed:)

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

SlabMurphy wrote: »

Brits/Isreali's, basically the same scum.

What a mature post... :rolleyes:

arybvtcw0eolkf

dahamster wrote: »

+1. Leb stories are only suitable for throwing breaks anyway. No need to get the families worked up at home over what were regular instances. I can't remember the number of times saying "sure thats miles away from here" when questioned about stuff reported on the news at home. Only downfall was my girlfriend was convinced that nothing at all happened in the irish ao. Swanbatt indeed:)

+1 for throwing breaks.

"Swan Batt", how many times was that thrown at lads after a winter trip and you'd be on a Christmas duty the following Christmas - you'd go whinging to the CS "But CS I was oversea's last Christmas" - "Fucking swan batt isn't a Christmas duty"

Of course it doesn't help matter's when most of our photos were taken in the canner with a slab of Almaza in front you us :pac:

dahamster

Elian Quiet Outfield wrote: »

+1 for throwing breaks.



Of course it doesn't help matter's when most of our photos were taken in the canner with a slab of Almaza in front you us :pac:

+1 very true. That or pictures outside the pub in netanya:D

arybvtcw0eolkf

dahamster wrote: »

+1 very true. That or pictures outside the pub in netanya:D

Camp Shamrock, 1988.

Damn that was a rough trip - the hangover's nearly killed me :pac:

The 3 star Private with the ronny & shades is Joe McGann R.I.P.

gizmo555

gizmo555 wrote: »

There were allegations, very well documented in Robert Fisk's excellent Pity the Nation: Lebanon at War, that an Israeli military intelligence officer was present when Privates Derek Smallhorn and Thomas Barrett were murdered on April 18, 1980 by south Lebanese militia supplied and controlled by Israel.

There's an extensive feature in yesterday's (11/04/10) Sunday Business Post on these murders, with eyewitness confirmation from Irish soldier John O'Mahony who was wounded in the same incident of the presence of an Israeli intelligence officer.

blainesligonew

the IDF killed Dermott McLoughlin in 1985, tank fired upon his UN position. fnd government archives abput the incident, very good read for an interested party!! also there are many more incidents of irishbatt coming under fire from IDF and SLA/ DFF, do the research man!!

Stovepipe

It makes you wonder why the Irish bother, really, when the Israelis and their allies could shoot at UN posts, knowing full well that they would never suffer meaningful retaliation. If the Irish had shot back and actually killed an Israeli soldier, then they would have brought a world of hurt on themselves and all we would have is bodybags at the airport and the same old **** would continue.

regards
Stovepipe

arybvtcw0eolkf

Stovepipe wrote: »

It makes you wonder why the Irish bother, really, when the Israelis and their allies could shoot at UN posts, knowing full well that they would never suffer meaningful retaliation. If the Irish had shot back and actually killed an Israeli soldier, then they would have brought a world of hurt on themselves and all we would have is bodybags at the airport and the same old **** would continue.

regards
Stovepipe

Same would have happened with Amal, Hezbollah, PLO, Islamic Resistance etc.

In fact the longest held captive in Lebanon is Private Kevin Joyce, kidnapped and believed murdered by a PLO faction in 1983.

Why do we bother, tbh most believe its still a worthwhile mission.

Stovepipe

Well, the Israelis could reply to UN fire with massive air and tank and artillery support, out of all proportion to any UN armed response, knowing full well that UN verbal protest was pointless, given that the USA would defend them to the hilt, no matter how many UN they killed. I really don't see the point of risking our lads out there, doing what the Lebanese should really be doing.

regards
Stovepipe

Fratton Fred

Stovepipe wrote: »

Well, the Israelis could reply to UN fire with massive air and tank and artillery support, out of all proportion to any UN armed response, knowing full well that UN verbal protest was pointless, given that the USA would defend them to the hilt, no matter how many UN they killed. I really don't see the point of risking our lads out there, doing what the Lebanese should really be doing.

regards
Stovepipe

International support for Israel is on the wane. An incident like this could be the final straw.

Whilst the UN probably wouldn't do anything, Israel would make too many enemies for comfort.

gizmo555

Fratton Fred wrote: »

International support for Israel is on the wane.

Israel doesn't have to give a damn about international support generally as long as it continues to get the pretty much unconditional support of the U.S.

SIRREX

gizmo555 wrote: »

Israel doesn't have to give a damn about international support generally as long as it continues to get the pretty much unconditional support of the U.S.

If you google Sarkozy Obama Netanyahu you'll see just how much Obama likes dealing with Israel

L.Jenkins

'88 Can't remember if any of my family served in the Leb on that particular occasion, but I have certainly seen that photo before somewhere. Athlone barrack in Kelly square maybe.