Hats off to Trevor Sargent

peasant

Earlier, the Green Party confirmed that Trevor Sargent has donated his ministerial payoff to the Society of Saint Vincent De Paul.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0225/politics.html

Respect ...if you have to go, that's the way to do it.

Wonder where Willie's donation is going to go ...

Kinetic^

Sorry, what? Why the hell is he getting a pay off in the first place? This sort of crap is why our country is an absolute sham.

pokerface_me

Shouldn't be getting a payoff but that aside it was a very decent thing he has done. Well done Trevor.

anymore

Kinetic^ wrote: »

Sorry, what? Why the hell is he getting a pay off in the first place? This sort of crap is why our country is an absolute sham.

Yes i will give him personal credit for it. However he would deserve an awful lot more credit if he proposed this compensation for doing wrong be abolished.

How many of us can say that if we were forced to resign our job, we would still have a € 100K job left ?
It is not really losing a job, just a small downgrade.

Mad_Max

They get a pay off as well????? FFS

His continued TD salary and ministerial pension isn't enough that they get a fcuking lump sum! Christ almighty that makes my blood boil.

We can take it then that O'Dea has kept his payoff/pension/salary combo.

jmayo

Mad_Max wrote: »

They get a pay off as well????? FFS

His continued TD salary and ministerial pension isn't enough that they get a fcuking lump sum! Christ almighty that makes my blood boil.

We can take it then that O'Dea has kept his payoff/pension/salary combo.

That hoor probably stripped the wallpaper from his office and took all the toilet rolls from the jacks as he left.

Remember how that great public servant roddy molloy, alla biffo's words, got to keep his car and got payoff as he left the ever so corrupt Fás. :rolleyes:

danman

I must say, I have the upmost respect for what he has done.

How many of could say that, honestly, we would do the same thing?

I would doubt it very much, if I would do the same.

Tabnabs

Willie O'Dea's 100k golden handshake went to a different kind of cause
clicky

Spiritoftheseventies

Kinetic^ wrote: »

Sorry, what? Why the hell is he getting a pay off in the first place? This sort of crap is why our country is an absolute sham.

Awful post. Sargent has acted with utmost of integrity since he resigned. He donates his ministerial pay off to St Vincent De Paul and you seek to put that down. Absolutely Disgraceful :mad:

Delirium

Fake Locke wrote: »

Awful post. Sargent has acted with utmost of integrity since he resigned. He donates his ministerial pay off to St Vincent De Paul and you seek to put that down. Absolutely Disgraceful :mad:

How is that an awful post??

It looked to me that Kinetic^ was criticizing a system that gives someone a resignation bonus.

I wouldn't expect to be paid a bonus if quit my job, why should a politician be any different?

Spiritoftheseventies

koth wrote: »

How is that an awful post??

It looked to me that Kinetic^ was criticizing a system that gives someone a resignation bonus.

I wouldn't expect to be paid a bonus if quit my job, why should a politician be andy different?

It detracted from Sargent's gesture. And at no stage has Sargent sought to absolve himself from responsibility. OP pointed out that he had donated his payoff to SVP. So yeah hats off to Sargent. He didnt take the pay off.

Red_Marauder

Kinetic^ wrote: »

Sorry, what? Why the hell is he getting a pay off in the first place? This sort of crap is why our country is an absolute sham.

Standard internet forum/ Metro comment section reaction.

He is a minor player in Government, while he can't single handedly change the rules about this payoff money, (nor realistically is it a pressing issue in terms of absolute importance), what he can do is decide how he wants to deal with it in his own situation.

This donation is the most honourable gesture I have seen any Irish politician make in a personal capacity and should be a strong signal to those who insist that there is no honour left in Irish politics.

mike65

So in short, the system sucks but he did the right thing with it.

Spiritoftheseventies

mike65 wrote: »

So in short, the system sucks but he did the right thing with it.

Pretty much

johngalway

koth wrote: »

why should a politician be andy different?

Because they work for us, and our standards are shocking.

While you, I'm presuming here, work for a company who are obliged to abide by the law and if they don't meet their bottom line they fold.

Countries and companies are two very different animals.

We as the people who elect TD's do share some of the blame in their actions.

We have known for years about the corruption in this country and very little was done as long as "I'm alright Jack" mentality was in force.

Red_Marauder

mike65 wrote: »

So in short, the system sucks but he did the right thing with it.

Yes.

Laminations

Red_Marauder wrote: »

nor realistically is it a pressing issue in terms of absolute importance,

I applaud him for this donation, a very honourable gesture but it does highlight a systemic problem, should we start a new thread to discuss it so as not to detract from his actions?
It is a pressing issue, one of the most pressing issues that government are trying to bring a country to the understanding that we are in dire need of cuts but yet they can give out wholly unnecessary payoffs, similar to their other golden handshakes or Berties tax exemption. If the coffers are empty for special needs then they should be empty for these ridiculous pay outs. I think Trevor Sargent has always been honourable but he has highlighted a problem with the system here and it is right to discuss it.

peasant

Red_Marauder wrote: »

nor realistically is it a pressing issue in terms of absolute importance.

It may not be a pressing issue in terms of absolute financial value, it is however in terms of moral value.

Leaders are supposed to lead from the front, by example.

Giving a payment to someone who was fired or had to step down for wrongdoings sends all the wrong signals and removes all moral credibility from governement.

BigDuffman

Whilst I am in anyway a fan of the greens but Mr. Sgt. showed himself to be made of the right stuff unfortunately it was upon his exit.

+1 OP

gizmo555

Red_Marauder wrote: »

He is a minor player in Government, while he can't single handedly change the rules about this payoff money, (nor realistically is it a pressing issue in terms of absolute importance), what he can do is decide how he wants to deal with it in his own situation.

Call me cynical, but I think using public money - which he implicitly accepts he doesn't deserve anyway - to garner positive PR in a disastrous situation for the Greens doesn't merit any praise. It would be a more genuine gesture if the Green Party wasn't issuing statements about it - as it is, it just smacks of more holier-than-thou GP style electioneering.

Laminations

Red_Marauder wrote: »

Standard internet forum/ Metro comment section reaction.

Nicely condescending. God forbid the opinions of the unwashed masses get heard above yours.

IrishTonyO

At last a politician doing the right and decent thing, my respect for him has gone up as a result of this.

dan_d

He did the right thing resiging as he did, unlike the idiot who had to be shoved out the door last week. Whether the payoff system is right or wrong (wrong!), he's done the right thing by that too. It's a bit more like the kind of behaviour I'd expect from our politicians across the board.

Mr. Incognito

His leadership and personal integrity were the reason that I and a lot of other people voted Greens in the last election.

People come on here and rage about Willies payoff and dream whistfully that he should not get it and then on the other hand when a politician does the honourable thing is pillored by the same posters that give out about Willies payoff in the first place.

Some people just like to bitch and moan and that's their own perogative but I like to give credit when it is due. I applaud the manner of his resignation, the dignity which he handled it and the manner of this gesture.

One of independents was on the radio saying he was respected across party lines as a man of integrity and honour and honestly. Coming from one of his independent peers that says a lot about the man.

Do you think a Fianna Fail, Labour or FG TD would have stepped down in this matter without being pushed? Hardly. Not only did he step down but he took no benefit from it. And it's not because he is a Green. It's the nature of the man.

Joe Higgins was another man I did not agree with on his political views but I never questioned his integrity or sincerity when he drew the average industrial wage and gave back the rest os his salary. Same applies here.

Bravo.

Mad_Max

This is wrong with our political system IMO.

The guy done something that he admits was wrong and could be against the law.. he resigns only as minister and everythings OK, time to move on and forget about it, he's a decent skin.

If he really had the stones he'd have resigned as a TD completely.

Why would he want to continue as a junior minister and take all the extra flack when he could just quit and be done with it and still rake it in.

He's just smarter than the rest of them.

Laminations

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

His leadership and personal integrity were the reason that I and a lot of other people voted Greens in the last election.

People come on here and rage about Willies payoff and dream whistfully that he should not get it and then on the other hand when a politician does the honourable thing is pillored by the same posters that give out about Willies payoff in the first place.

Some people just like to bitch and moan and that's their own perogative but I like to give credit when it is due. I applaud the manner of his resignation, the dignity which he handled it and the manner of this gesture.

One of independents was on the radio saying he was respected across party lines as a man of integrity and honour and honestly. Coming from one of his independent peers that says a lot about the man.

Do you think a Fianna Fail, Labour or FG TD would have stepped down in this matter without being pushed? Hardly. Not only did he step down but he took no benefit from it. And it's not because he is a Green. It's the nature of the man.

Joe Higgins was another man I did not agree with on his political views but I never questioned his integrity or sincerity when he drew the average industrial wage and gave back the rest os his salary. Same applies here.

Bravo.

I dont think anyone is questioning his integrity. In fact we are all in agreement that he did the right thing and i agree with you on the manner and swiftness of his resignation that he showed his integrity. But whats the point of this thread, there is nothing to debate. Is it merely like a book of condolences where we can put a +1 to congratulate him for his honesty and integrity? Unfortunately his good deed is overshadowed somewhat by the existence of such pay offs and thats worthy of debate.

Red_Marauder

Laminations wrote: »

I applaud him for this donation, a very honourable gesture but it does highlight a systemic problem, should we start a new thread to discuss it so as not to detract from his actions?
.

I hardly think so, I pretty much agree that it is indicative of a systemic problem and that a payoff od this magnitude should not occur. I am just saying that he did what he could with the problem as it stands.

It is a pressing issue, one of the most pressing issues that government are trying to bring a country to the understanding that we are in dire need of cuts but yet they can give out wholly unnecessary payoffs, similar to their other golden handshakes or Berties....

Symbolism. Symbolism has its place but I'm talking about the real application of figures. There is a need for Government to address the issue of mid-term resignations from Ministerial portfolios but it is hardly 'a pressing issue' to do so. It's an issue of a symbol.

peasant wrote:

It may not be a pressing issue in terms of absolute financial value, it is however in terms of moral value.

Moral value? What is moral value and since when did we ever need to be spoonfed morality from our politicians?

We are supposed to be grown ups with our own pre-ordained positions on 'morality' if we have any. We are also supposed to have left (I would have thought) the seeking out of moral leadership from our leaders back in colonial Ireland or in Saint Peter's Square.
The public need managers and public administrators to arrange our services to pay attention to the bottom line, and whether the ink is red or black. The public does not need moral leadership.

peasant

Laminations wrote: »

whats the point of this thread, there is nothing to debate. Is it merely like a book of condolences where we can put a +1 to congratulate him for his honesty and integrity?

The point of this thread is that a politician with honesty and integrity is such an endangered species these days that it is well worth highlighting that they do in fact exist.

Even in the original article, honesty and integrity were only worthy of a footnote ...in my opinion they are worthy at least one headline and one thread of their own, that's why I made one.

peasant

Red_Marauder wrote: »

The public does not need moral leadership.

Well, it certainly doesn't need immoral leadership, because we know where that got us :pac:

Sleepy

Fair play to him, wonder will O' Dea follow suit?

Mad_Max

Could someone (green voter preferably) please clarify what I've read, I've never paid attention to this guy before so no idea how true this is.

Sargent promised he wouldn't lead the greens into government with FF but negotiated the deal then stepped down and said he wouldn't go into cabinet..but took the junior minister post and voted with the government, helping to keep FF in power.

If that's true I've a lesser opinion of him now than I had 5 minutes ago.

Sir Oxman

Parachute (hardship!) payments to resigning ministers/td's whatever is not just a 'symbol', it's indicative of the malaise and wastefulness of public funds in this country.

Our legislators are currently in the process of cutting public spending left, right and centre and asking/expecting the ordinary man and woman to take it and shut up about it.

Well, I've no problem taking it but I won't shut up when our leaders see no problem with payments like O'Dea's 100k, O'Donoghues xxxk, Sargents 47k.

They need the country to co-operate with the cutbacks, by continuing these payments they will never get that.
IMO, it is more than 'symbolic'

Spiritoftheseventies

Mad_Max wrote: »

Could someone (green voter preferably) please clarify what I've read, I've never paid attention to this guy before so no idea how true this is.

Sargent promised he wouldn't lead the greens into government with FF but negotiated the deal then stepped down and said he wouldn't go into cabinet..but took the junior minister post and voted with the government, helping to keep FF in power.

If that's true I've a lesser opinion of him now than I had 5 minutes ago.

It was a pre election promise. He stood by it. He didn't lead Greens into power with FF.

Mad_Max

Fake Locke wrote: »

It was a pre election promise. He stood by it. He didn't lead Greens into power with FF.

But took the junior minister post and voted with them?

Sir Oxman

Mad_Max wrote: »

Could someone (green voter preferably) please clarify what I've read, I've never paid attention to this guy before so no idea how true this is.

Sargent promised he wouldn't lead the greens into government with FF but negotiated the deal then stepped down and said he wouldn't go into cabinet..but took the junior minister post and voted with the government, helping to keep FF in power.

If that's true I've a lesser opinion of him now than I had 5 minutes ago.

Voter who formerly gave Greens my #1 but not a member.

Yes, he did that. And castigated Molloy years ago over making representations on behalf of a prisoner, however Sargent actually tried getting a prosecution stopped.

Integrity has been redefined in this thread.
Now if he resigned his seat...

Mad_Max

gambiaman wrote: »

Now if he resigned his seat...

Exactly. and while he's donating, give his pension up with it.

Spiritoftheseventies

What was Molloy representing the prisoner over?

Red_Marauder

Mad_Max wrote: »

Exactly. and while he's donating, give his pension up with it.

Yeah and maybe we could make him walk around a pole dragging a heavy weight for hard labour too.

The_Minister

He could just have not taken the payoff.

It's not like we have the money to spare.

Who does he think he is, taking our money and giving it to charity.

He stepped down in disgrace, he should refuse to take the payment altogether.

Spiritoftheseventies

The_Minister wrote: »

He could just have not taken the payoff.

It's not like we have the money to spare.

Who does he think he is, taking our money and giving it to charity.

He stepped down in disgrace, he should refuse to take the payment altogether.

give us a break

Sir Oxman

Fake Locke wrote: »

give us a break

Why?

Sir Oxman

Fake Locke wrote: »

What was Molloy representing the prisoner over?

This

Spiritoftheseventies

gambiaman wrote: »

Why?

The guy steps down. he gives up his ministerial pay off to SVP and some posters still looking for their pound of flesh. Its disgusting behaviour IMO.

Mad_Max

Red_Marauder wrote: »

Yeah and maybe we could make him walk around a pole dragging a heavy weight for hard labour too.

Are you suggesting it's too much to ask of an elected official to forgo his pension when he's admitted he done wrong?

Kinetic^

Fake Locke wrote: »

The guy steps down. he gives up his ministerial pay off to SVP and some posters still looking for their pound of flesh. Its disgusting behaviour IMO.

There should be no such thing as a payoff.

Spiritoftheseventies

Lads walk away. No point arguing with these people.

Blackhorse Slim

The_Minister wrote: »

He could just have not taken the payoff.

It's not like we have the money to spare.

Who does he think he is, taking our money and giving it to charity.

He stepped down in disgrace, he should refuse to take the payment altogether.

And let FF give it to the banks? Or to Willie O'Dea?

I'm sure SVP can do more good with the money than the government

Mad_Max

Fake Locke wrote: »

Lads walk away. No point arguing with these people.

Sorry what people would they be?

Spiritoftheseventies

Mad_Max wrote: »

Sorry what people would they be?

This thread was about a gesture Sargent made. You want to discuss Ministerial pensions in general it should be discussed on another thread IMO.

Mad_Max

I think I've personally made my opinion clear that I think the praise is undeserved. For me, he needs to resign as a TD to be given any sort of cudos.

And yes I have a major gripe with ministerial pensions but seen as he hasn't said he's giving it up, I can only assume he's taking it. After admitting he done wrong. Another reason I believe your praise is wrong.

Kinetic^

Oh yay, he's given undeserved money to charity and will still get oodles of dollar bills from his pension. He should be banned from politics in this country and so should WO'D.