English Poetry

zam

I thought I had poetry in the bag - since the start of 5th year I've been getting A1s in my poetry essays from my teachers. However recently I was told by an English grind that with the essays I've been writing I'd only get a low C in the Leaving Cert.

I've been writing my essays with reference to 3/4 poems, and writing them in a poem by poem structure. I was told that to do well I would need at least 6 poems in my essay and would have to structure it according to the question (eg. in an "images and language" question I'd need to write about the images and the about the language)

Is this true?? With three months until the Leaving Cert I'm completely panicking about having to re-learn the poetry course, unless I'm worrying for no reason and other schools only do it like this too?

Crow92

it's true, at least 5-6 poems and answer the question not just retelling what the poem was or whichever way you answer it.

Purpose is the most important part of the marking scheme, if you only get 20/30 in purpose you can only get
20/30 max for both coherence and language which will plummet your grade

Grainnexxxxxx

the marking scheme for English is P - Purpose , C- Coherence , L-Language and M-Mechanics... In my class we do it regards Heading e.g Imagery , Nature , Death .... etc ! It really makes things a lot easier (:

Rich1691

Crow92 wrote: »

it's true, at least 5-6 poems and answer the question not just retelling what the poem was or whichever way you answer it.
grade

I'm not sure you would have time to do that many poems in the exam. It depends on the detail of your answers and which poet you are doing. for Longley, I would usually discuss four of his poems in a question.

implausible

Does your grinds teacher mark leaving cert papers?

Poem-by-poem is absolutely fine. The exam does not dictate to you how you should structure your essay, there is no right and wrong way. What's important is that you address the question given, so if you for example, talk about images and language in each paragraph/poem, you are answering the question.

6 poems isn't necessary. I've marked some outstanding poetry questions where the candidate discussed 3 poems in detail and used them to explain the poet's work. However, to be on the safe side, you need 4 poems and have another in the bag in case the question doesn't suit all of the ones you've done. Alternatively, discuss 3 in great detail (3 paragraphs) and 2 similar ones (1 paragraph) together.

zam

Thank God. Slightly less worried now.

Yes my grind is an LC examiner which made me even more worried about the whole situation...

He said that writing it poem by poem is too "simplistic" and would never get you an A1.

I suppose that's the way the cookie crumbles with English, Ireland is crazy, every examiner and every teacher seems to have a different idea of how to write the essays.

implausible

zam wrote: »

He said that writing it poem by poem is too "simplistic" and would never get you an A1.

Well, speaking as an examiner, I would disagree. If the question is well-answered and the student shows an in-depth understanding of the poet's work, it doesn't matter how you approach the essay. They don't dictate the 'right' way to approach any other essay question on the exam paper. What's important is answering the question.

If you're still worried, maybe pick up an extra poem for each poet as insurance and remember that the poetry essay is only 50/400 i.e. 12%, so take care not to spend 50% of your time on it!

window_licker

zam wrote: »

I thought I had poetry in the bag - since the start of 5th year I've been getting A1s in my poetry essays from my teachers. However recently I was told by an English grind that with the essays I've been writing I'd only get a low C in the Leaving Cert.

I've been writing my essays with reference to 3/4 poems, and writing them in a poem by poem structure. I was told that to do well I would need at least 6 poems in my essay and would have to structure it according to the question (eg. in an "images and language" question I'd need to write about the images and the about the language)

Is this true?? With three months until the Leaving Cert I'm completely panicking about having to re-learn the poetry course, unless I'm worrying for no reason and other schools only do it like this too?

i have a nagging feeling that ur english grinds person is my english teacher

degausserxo

zam wrote: »

I've been writing my essays with reference to 3/4 poems, and writing them in a poem by poem structure. I was told that to do well I would need at least 6 poems in my essay and would have to structure it according to the question (eg. in an "images and language" question I'd need to write about the images and the about the language)

Is this true??

No. I hate it when people tell you that unless you have 4+ poems, you won't get an A in the question. I got an A in HL English last year and wrote about three poems. Poem by poem is grand; once you're addressing the question it doesn't matter what way you do it.

Lawliet

Rich1691 wrote: »

I'm not sure you would have time to do that many poems in the exam.

Well you wouldn't don't do all of them in huge detail. I usually write about three or four in a lot of detail and then just make brief references to two other poems -where relevant.
But yeah, six poems in detail sounds overly time consuming.

gant0

4 poems per answer two paragraphs per poem.You can learn off an answer that can easily be moulded into the question asked....poetry is quite handy that way since no matter how they ask the question your still basicly making the same points about each poem just refering an explaining them to tailor the question.

sligo.

im in 4th year so im not speaking from complete experience but my english teacher this year is great! he tells us to, in the opening paragraph, name about 4 of the poet's poems. then explain how they relate to the question asked. then write a paragraph on each poem you mentioned explaining in depth how it relates to the question asked and finally your closing paragraph. he marks our essays as tough as they would be marked in an exam situation which is good because i wont be let down the day of my results next year if i dont get the A grade that my teacher had been giving me the 2 years previously. you will be fine anyways!:) grinds teachers seem to turn everything upside down for people and confuse them! :eek:

gant0

sligo. wrote: »

he tells us to, in the opening paragraph, name about 4 of the poet's poems. then explain how they relate to the question asked. then write a paragraph on each poem you mentioned explaining in depth how it relates to the question asked and finally your closing paragraph. :eek:

Do this but write two paragraphs per poem...Learn off 8 different quotes for a poet and use one of these per paragraph...In your conclusion make sure you have a quote reserved from your favourite peom or a quote from some famour person in english literature.

allandanyways

6 poems is a bit much. I think I actually analysed 2 poems in depth and referenced 2 more in my leaving cert and I got full marks for my poetry question.

If you try to do an analysis of thematic/aesthetic aspects of six seperate poems, you'll lose the point of your essay. Coherence is key, if you try to focus on too much you won't make any sense.

I wish people would abandon this idea of "you have to show off absolutely everything you've ever learned about everything and use absolutely every poem in the poetry book to get an A1"

I know it's an absolute head wrecking saying but it's quality, not quantity- it actually, honestly is. Think of that in terms of how you analyse the poems as well; 2 and a half paragraphs of blah blah reiterating the notes from the book versus 1 decent paragraph of in-depth analysis, it's a no-brainer.

dannyboymed

I'm in sixth year too. The larger the poems are, the less poems I'd write about overall. For example, Eliot has some quite huge poems, and personally, if I was doing a question on Eliot, I'd only reference two poems, three at most. Yeats' poems are much smaller and I'd reference at least four of them in my answer, giving varying levels of detail on each.

almostnever

degausserxo wrote: »

No. I hate it when people tell you that unless you have 4+ poems, you won't get an A in the question. I got an A in HL English last year and wrote about three poems. Poem by poem is grand; once you're addressing the question it doesn't matter what way you do it.

This,pretty much exactly. I got an A1 in English last year and got full marks in my Elizabeth Bishop essay. I wrote about 2 poems but I wrote about in detail. The question was a little trickier than they usually are and I managed to link the poems to it quite well. It's a lot better than trying to cram poems that don't suit the question in,I think.

BrokenHeels_Ox

I cant believe for the lst three years I've been told that I have to write about six poems!

zam

BrokenHeels_Ox wrote: »

I cant believe for the lst three years I've been told that I have to write about six poems!

Better too many than too few!

I freaked out when I heard the 6 poems especially this close to the Leaving Cert. Thank god it's not true. Thanks everyone! Calmer now...

Lawliet

I never actually thought you could get away with only having two or three poems. As a repeat this pleases me greatly

BrokenHeels_Ox

im gonna check a sample answer on e-xamit, ill fill u in

BrokenHeels_Ox

sample answer for Boland in 2005 mentioned seven lol

felic

6 Poems? Thats insane! Although I do agree that its a good idea to have in depth knowledge of say 6 poems, you will rarely get asked a question whereby all 6 would be suited to what's being asked.
If you're asked to 'discuss a common theme' then you'd select say 3-4 poems that deal with something relating and give a decent essay discussing that, rather than giving a sketchy outline of that theme in all 6 poems. First, writing about 3-4 would give you a lot more scope to deal with the question. Second, writing about 6 would probably mean writing about 6 pages, and the question isnt worth that much time and work.

But as mentioned earlier, different markers do tend to have different methods of correcting. Thats an area that really needs to be addressed because even though those correcting are given a marking scheme and attend conferences prior to correcting the scripts, theres a big difference between say a 30 year old and a 60 year old marking your exam.
Our class was a victim of this with our Irish. The best student in the class was fluent in Irish, getting A's right all the way through from 1st year. She ended up with a B2. I was expecting an A2 or a B1 and I had so many quotes learned off, fancy phrases learned off from a crash course at Bruce College, felt I did a great exam... ended up with a C1! Disgust doesn't even begin!
Then 2 friends of mine who went to another school who I know full well were not any better than me at Irish... in fact, they used ask me for help with stuff... they both ended up getting A1's!

Not really sure how that could be addressed but I think the scripts should be corrected by at least 2 examiners and then if the grade difference is greater than one grade difference... a third should have to correct it. Of course, this would have massive implications in terms of pay and time but when there's a difference of 10 points between an A2 and an A1, and when missing a course by 5 points can cause a student to do a second choice course... its a serious matter and worth the tax payers money!

BrokenHeels_Ox

^ have to say i totally agree with every word of that. i PITY whoever gets stuck with my english teacher correcting their exams.

fufureida

Uh dude no way you tottaly have to talk about at least 4-5 poems in some detail or 3 on huge great amounts of detail if u r looking for an A1 and simply retelling the poem will not get u that. if u r gonna write about 3 poems male sure u quote inside out and show a deep understanding and connection to the poems. U need to talk about whatsbeing answered and in each paragraph relate to the question. Encorparate at least five relevant quotes to each poem and always give some form of a personal response to each poem in each paragraph regardless of whether or not u are asked for one. The examiner wants to know whetheror not u understand the poem and retelling the story will not show this, seeing it could easily be learnt off material. Also in intro always list the poems u r going to write about and wing in the question withur intro. Shows am organised mind. Theme tone technique and personal response: that needs to be ur layout for an answer.

So hmmm yeah revise how u write poetry essays completely. Otherwise u will get a low C.

implausible

felic wrote: »

I was expecting an A2 or a B1 and I had so many quotes learned off, fancy phrases learned off from a crash course at Bruce College, felt I did a great exam... ended up with a C1! Disgust doesn't even begin!

Not really sure how that could be addressed but I think the scripts should be corrected by at least 2 examiners and then if the grade difference is greater than one grade difference... a third should have to correct it. Of course, this would have massive implications in terms of pay and time but when there's a difference of 10 points between an A2 and an A1, and when missing a course by 5 points can cause a student to do a second choice course... its a serious matter and worth the tax payers money!

Some scripts end up being marked 5 times - by the assistant examiner, by an advising examiner, by the assistant examiner again and in appeals. Just because you had "fancy phrases learned off from a crash course at Bruce College" and "felt I did a great exam" doesn't mean that you deserved an A1! I presume you appealed your result. The system already has a lot of checks and balances in it and you actually get to view your paper, what more do you want?

You'd be waiting until October for results if papers were marked 3 times and I've a funny feeling the taxpayer wouldn't agree with spending the money in this way.

implausible

fufureida wrote: »

Uh dude no way you tottaly have to talk about at least 4-5 poems in some detail or 3 on huge great amounts of detail if u r looking for an A1 and simply retelling the poem will not get u that.

So hmmm yeah revise how u write poetry essays completely. Otherwise u will get a low C.

Eh, dude, the OP totally doesn't have to revise how he writes his essays, just study an extra poem just in case.:cool:

Lawliet

Ah, the functionally illiterate giving advice on essay writing. You've gotta love our education system!

fufureida

Lawliet wrote: »

Ah, the functionally illiterate giving advice on essay writing. You've gotta love our education system!

Excuse me? I'm a repeat, I know what the examiner looks for. And for your info, I got a B1 in my LC English test in 2008 and I also give grinds to intellectually impaired ppl... So watch ur Tongue... No need For that kinda smack.

Lawliet

fufureida wrote: »

Excuse me? I'm a repeat, I know what the examiner looks for. And for your info, I got a B1 in my LC English test in 2008 and I also give grinds to intellectually impaired ppl... So watch ur Tongue... No need For that kinda smack.

Relax. I was merely poking fun at the fact that you're giving English advice whilst making no attempt to use proper English yourself.

fufureida

I'm on a fricking itouch hard to type... Whatever.

Bradence93!

i havent a clue about poetry and i'm doing higher english:eek:. anybody able to give a bit of help????:D

Flecktarn

I've been doing pretty well with poetry lately, getting A1's/A2's, just gonna do; Boland, Rich and Yeats for the LC agus sin é!

OP my teacher says to do 4 in detail(quotes, etc.) and mention 2 in minor detail, that's all about 4/5 pages, length is debatable. But you MUST always refer to the question asked, mention it after every 2 paragraphs or so, that's my advice!

Sure screw it, concentrate much more on your essay(paper 1) and your comparative essay(paper 2), they're worth much more, marks wise...