Refused Job after it was offered?

funkyjebus

Hi Guys,

Quick query. My brother when through two interviews and was then offered a job subject to references. He gave the refs and they came back said that they where all in order, but they have since offered it to an employee internally (there was no delay in offering references).

If seems to be that he got a bad reference (which is illegal as far as I know) and the employer is now lying. While this mightn't do well in court, I wouldn't mind lighting a small fire under their ass.

Is there any legal ramifications for their actions, as he was offer the job and they subsequently gave it to someone else?

Thanks

seamus

funkyjebus wrote: »

If seems to be that he got a bad reference (which is illegal as far as I know) and the employer is now lying. While this mightn't do well in court, I wouldn't mind lighting a small fire under their ass.

It's not illegal to give a bad reference.
However, saying something negative about someone is a defamation and as such the person who said it should be able to back up what they said with facts/documents. So "John has difficulty with punctuality" is fine if the company can show a consist record of John turning up late for work. However, "John is a little too touchy-feely and lazes about all day in work" will land an employer in hot water if they can't show that John had received warnings or disciplinary action about his conduct and work performance.

This is why a "bad reference" usually amounts to, "John worked here from X date until he left on X date" and provides no more information.

Before you can do anything about this, you would need to find out what the employer said about your brother. The easiest way to do this is to have a friend (or even yourself) ring up the ex-employer to request a reference, posing as a potential new employer.

Is there any legal ramifications for their actions, as he was offer the job and they subsequently gave it to someone else?

The offer was subject to conditions, and from their point of view those conditions weren't satisfied, so the new employer has no obligation to follow through on the offer.

However, he would have grounds for taking a defamation case against the ex-employer, provided that he's confident that the other ex-employer said things about him that were untrue or unfair.

I would recommend that you ring up the ex-employer to get a reference, make a note of everything that's said and if you believe that he's making stuff up or being unfair, get yourselves a solicitor. If the ex-employer is a bigish company with it's own HR department, then a simple solicitor's letter threatening court action over the defamation may be enough to secure a settlement. HR departments are rightly paranoid about this kind of thing.

funkyjebus

seamus wrote: »

The offer was subject to conditions, and from their point of view those conditions weren't satisfied, so the new employer has no obligation to follow through on the offer.

Seamus, thanks for the reply.

The person in the new employer said they were satisfied with the references. Therefore I'm not looking at the defermation part (just yet!) and that the sole reason for not giving to my brother wasd to give to someone else to applied late.

At the moment that is the detail i'm fixed on. That once there has been a verbal agreement (subject to a condition) and that even though the condition was met the agreement was broken.

Am i barking up the wrong tree or do I have a point.

seamus

I think I might have taken you up wrong initially.

You reckon that he got a bad reference, but rather than tell him that, the employer opted to tell him that they'd offered it to someone internally?

While I can see your point, I don't think there's a whole lot here worth pursuing. A job offer is not the same thing as a contract of employment, so there is probably very little that you would get out of them, even if a judge ruled that some form of contractual agreement existed.

There's probably something in case law which says that companies are permitted to withdraw a job offer in the case the circumstances change - such as a better candidate coming to light or the company's finance's change.

There's also the fact that it's perfectly reasonable to withdraw an offer before it's accepted. You could argue that "acceptance" of the job offer only occurs when the company receives a signed contract. So if there's no acceptance, then there's no agreement.

jim_bob

the easiest way to find out what a previous employer is going to say about you, is by getting a friend to call them pretending to be from a HR company of Fake INC. and then you know exactly what to expect

Cunsiderthis

seamus wrote: »

There's probably something in case law which says that companies are permitted to withdraw a job offer in the case the circumstances change - such as a better candidate coming to light or the company's finance's change.

A job offer is not a contract of employment and a job offer is, by its nature, subject to conditions. I am assuming the job offer was verbal and not written and, if so, the conditions are deemed to be uncertain and open to interpretation).

In any case, it's not a contract.

In all liklihood, if the new employer did not like the reference (as opposed to it not being a "good" reference), it would be unlikely he would offer that as a reason for not offering a contract of employment, for obvious reasons.

Your brother could ask to see a copy of this reference from the potential employer, although the employer is under no obligation to give it to him.

There is really nothing your brother can do to force the employer to give him a job, although its not nice to havhe received an offer which now is not going to proceed to a contract.

They have said they have appointed a candidate internally and you'll just have to accept that and advise him to keep looking.

seamus

Cunsiderthis wrote: »

Your brother could ask to see a copy of this reference from the potential employer, although the employer is under no obligation to give it to him.

Under the Data Protection Act, I imagine any candidate is well within their rights to request a copy of all notes/references that a company has about them on file.

Pete67

Only if the data is filed electronically.

Cunsiderthis

seamus wrote: »

Under the Data Protection Act, I imagine any candidate is well within their rights to request a copy of all notes/references that a company has about them on file.

the data protection act only concerns data which is in electronic format. it's unlikely many employers would keep job interview files electronically specifically to avoid having to comply with just such a request. Even if eh referenced were received electronically ( say by fax or email) they are not subject to the data protection act, and would only be subject to th edata protectino act if they were compiled into an electronic file on the individual concerned.

maidhcII

Pete67 wrote: »

Only if the data is filed electronically.

Nope, the Data Protection Act applies to manual data once it is contained in a "relevant filing system", which is defined as:

“relevant filing system” means any set of information relating to individuals to the extent that, although the information is not processed by means of equipment operating
automatically in response to instructions given for that purpose, the set is structured, either
by reference to individuals or by reference to criteria relating to individuals, in such a way that specific information relating to a particular individual is readily accessible;

DrJ.

Hi all,

my two cents worth - if a job is paid from the public purse, then there is an obligation to ensure fair open competition and give the job to the best qualified applicant. There are also general anti-discrimination regulations which apply to both public and private employers (wrt things like gender, age etc etc). However, beyond that, private employers can employ whoever they like on whatever basis they like. A private employer is not necessarily obliged to employ based on the result of an interview process.

The question here is not really why they may have withdrawn an initial offer - provided its a private employer, they are free to do this for any or no reason. The question here I would have thought is whether that intial offer constituted a elgally enforcable contract - wouldnt like to speculate without knowing the details, but in most cases, the answer is no....

Cunsiderthis

Yes, I just checked with the data protection commissioner and they agree that it can extend to a paper filing system, so the OP's brother could request this information.

IN my experience, we never took written references as kosher, and there would never be anything written in a reference which could be used against the author.

Often, a verbal reference is sought from the author which is often more revelatory than what is written.

Del2005

seamus wrote: »

This is why a "bad reference" usually amounts to, "John worked here from X date until he left on X date" and provides no more information.

They are the only type of references my company will give out and it's a large multi national.

They are paranoid after one company sued another after they hired someone on a glowing reference and the person turned out to be sh!te, this is all US based.

ArseBurger

seamus wrote: »

Under the Data Protection Act, I imagine any candidate is well within their rights to request a copy of all notes/references that a company has about them on file.

Which is why I shred all notes after interview rounds. I mark out of 10 and then shred.