This Government

Pot Noodle =

With 2 Minister gone what kind of Majority do they have now and will we be seeing the likes of this shower gone

Biggins

Not gone, just resigned their official government posts and keeping their seats.
+ Sargent might get a leaving bonus too?

That will be another few thousand please, cough-up public!

Sierra Oscar

They still are TD's, and can thus still vote to support the government.

For Forks Sake

Pot wrote:

With 2 Minister gone what kind of Majority do they have now and will we be seeing the likes of this shower gone

they're sill TDs and party members ad will keep voting with the govt

Pot Noodle =

Bu gger i thought it was nearly over for them

ninty9er

The resignations don't affect the government majority.

gandalf

Depends on who leaked the letter story coming out in the wash. If it did come from a FF source then things could implode quite quickly.

Biggins

deadtiger wrote: »

Depends on who leaked the letter story coming out in the wash. If it did come from a FF source then things could implode quite quickly.

I wonder just how much more are the Greens willing to swallow and if they can prove how the leak came about!
Suspecting is one thing, proving is another.
This is important because outside of the Dail, no one person can be accused of leaking the subject material unless the proof is absolute.
(inside the Dail, they can say what they want without fear of being sued - but thats another issue)
The atmosphere in the Dail for the next while will be something fierce. Should be interesting viewing.

patwicklow

just wondering whats going to happen next?? is it getting near the end for them?is the gravy train coming to a halt? heres hoping...

simonj

Doubt it very much, they will hang in there to the bitter end.
I think the Green TD's and executive realise that they have thrown so many principles away, despite what supporters may feel, to maintain FF in power, a move now would be meaningless unless it was for an utterly spectacular reason - ie the proverbial dead girl or the live boy in an FF bedroom.

The only people who support the Greens currently on the ground are the idiologists who have blind faith that they can still convert FF to ammend their wicked ways, a flawed assumption that killed the previous FF organgrinders monkey - the PD's.

This is particularly the case for people like Gogarty - who may feel that in the event of an economic upturn, and an FF coup there is still a chance at a Senate seat or a quango for his future.

However, the Sergeant resignation is the biggest blow yet, and will shake the Green party.

Hope springs eternal for FF, and there is always a hope of an economic upturn or a future coalition -

With our current political setup they will maintain a lot of seats with the clientism and gombeenism - and FG led Government means little in the way of change for the electorate.

An FG led government is more of the same dynastic political caste system

simonj

See
http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055837315

It may well have been FF quid pro quo for the Boyle tweet - thats certainly the FG/Lab line (which are, disturbingly, increasingly similar - saves a few bob on speech writers though)

But even if the Greens found that it was an FF source that the story ended up in the spotlight, one is fairly sure that they would find a staffer to scapegoat or some other reason to keep their tenuous grip on the seal of office, they are hardly at this point in time going to chance going to the ballot box.

On that note, Mr Sergeants resignation as a minister of state was - as is his nature - timley and correct, for a decision that was far more understandable than O Deas personal and reluctant actions.

I was however sad to see him trot out the O Donaghue line that only the people of North Dublin could judge him - as a former leader of the Greens and a man who built (an overwhelmingly accurate) reputation of honesty, it would have been better if he resigned as a TD.

Head The Wall

simonj wrote: »

On that note, Mr Sergeants resignation as a minister of state was - as is his nature - timley and correct, for a decision that was far more understandable than O Deas personal and reluctant actions.

I was however sad to see him trot out the O Donaghue line that only the people of North Dublin could judge him - as a former leader of the Greens and a man who built (an overwhelmingly accurate) reputation of honesty, it would have been better if he resigned as a TD.

This whole resignation thing is rubbish. He isn't fit for public office after what he hs done so why didn't he retire completley. Fit to be a TD but not a minister, he still has the exact same power as a TD to do the same again. If he wasn't a minister would he have to resign outright?

dan_d

Anyone else do Hamlet in school at some stage???? Listening to all of this, all I can think of is that line..."something is rotten in the state of Denmark"....referring to the something being rotten in Hamlet's family/the rulers of the country. It's beginning to sound very applicable....and look how that ended!

Just my 2 cents!!!

skearon

deadtiger wrote: »

Depends on who leaked the letter story coming out in the wash. If it did come from a FF source then things could implode quite quickly.

It didnt, it's all part of FG trying to play the Greens again, they succeeded with Dan Doyle last week, and are continuing with the same dirty tricks.

It was obvious from last night, as every FG person being interviewed were repeating the same lines.

Remember FG are terrified about the Moriarty Tribunal's report and the implications it will have for many of their senior members

Liam Byrne

skearon wrote: »

It didnt, it's all part of FG trying to play the Greens again, they succeeded with Dan Doyle last week, and are continuing with the same dirty tricks.

It was obvious from last night, as every FG person being interviewed were repeating the same lines.

So the fact that FG are all of the same opinion means there's something dodgy going on ?

I wonder what was going on last week, so, when ALL OF FF voted confidence in O'Dea.

skearon wrote: »

Remember FG are terrified about the Moriarty Tribunal's report and the implications it will have for many of their senior members

And what's that other tribunal again, the one that's investigating a former dodgy Taoiseach ? :rolleyes:

Of course, we're told by FF members that we can't pre-empt that, because Ahern is "innocent" and we can't possibly assume that a tribunal will find something dodgy about a TD........

Oh - hang on - that must apply only to FF members, because you did PRECISELY THAT in your post.

The double-standards and political bull**** is sickening!

Obviously tricks are only "dirty" and objectionable when FF is on the receiving end.

At least FG didn't accuse O'Dea or Sargent of running a brothel!

Just kick out ALL the corrupt ones and then get on with the job, FFS!

Ah well, it won't matter soon; I have "Dancing in the Street" and "Celebration" queued up.....and given that the current shower are lurching from fiasco to fiasco, I'm praying I'll be playing them full blast very, very soon!

skearon

Liam Byrne wrote: »

And what's that other tribunal again, the one that's investigating a former dodgy Taoiseach ? :rolleyes:

Of course, we're told by FF members that we can't pre-empt that, because Ahern is "innocent" and we can't possibly assume that a tribunal will find something dodgy about a TD........

Oh - hang on - that must apply only to FF members, because you did PRECISELY THAT in your post.

Ah well, it won't matter soon; I have "Dancing in the Street" and "Celebration" queued up.....and given that the current shower are lurching from fiasco to fiasco, I'm praying I'll be playing them full blast very, very soon!

Well it will be interest to see if the so called 'Law and Order Party' will display the same level of 'Moral Outrage' at the findings over their senior party members.

Pot Noodle =

I wish they would just go

Red_Marauder

skearon wrote: »

Well it will be interest to see if the so called 'Law and Order Party' will display the same level of 'Moral Outrage' at the findings over their senior party members.

Senior party members? Which ones?

I assume you really mean Michael Lowry here, the guy who keeps Fianna Fáil in Government on account of his special arrangement with them?

Liam Byrne

skearon wrote: »

Well it will be interest to see if the so called 'Law and Order Party' will display the same level of 'Moral Outrage' at the findings over their senior party members.

As I said, we're not allowed to assume that anyone is guilty until the tribunal reports....

......unless, that is, FFers have one rule for themselves and one for other parties ?

That'd never be the case, now would it ?

And if their "senior party members" do turn out to be dodgy, will you support them remaining as a TD, and swanning around in a merc paid for by you, and writing an autobiography that has no similarity to reality ?

Surely you'd have no problem with that whatsoever ?

If it's true, then I will have a problem with it, because I'll treat like with like; but I've a funny feeling that FF won't.

I'd almost like for an FG member to be guilty of something, so that we could watch the inconsistency and laugh our heads off at even more two-faced-ness from FF.

Pot Noodle =

Liam i am a man of few words but Inept springs to mind

patwicklow

GREAT AINT IT NOT MUCH LONGER TO GO WITH THIS SHOWER AND THE SLIMEY GREENS....

IrishTonyO

Liam Byrne wrote: »

And if their "senior party members" do turn out to be dodgy, will you support them remaining as a TD, and swanning around in a merc paid for by you, and writing an autobiography that has no similarity to reality ?

.

TD's don't get Mercs only ministers

skearon

Red_Marauder wrote: »

Senior party members? Which ones?

I assume you really mean Michael Lowry here, the guy who keeps Fianna Fáil in Government on account of his special arrangement with them?

Its fairly easy to research which current members of the opposition were sitting in cabinet at the time

Spiritoftheseventies

Actually heard a FF td on Newstalk at lunch time saying that party should go to the people now so that they could be back in power for the 1916 centenary celebrations in six years time. You couldn't make this stuff up.

ninty9er

Liam Byrne wrote: »

So the fact that FG are all of the same opinion means there's something dodgy going on ?

I wonder what was going on last week, so, when ALL OF FF voted confidence in O'Dea.



And what's that other tribunal again, the one that's investigating a former dodgy Taoiseach ? :rolleyes:

Of course, we're told by FF members that we can't pre-empt that, because Ahern is "innocent" and we can't possibly assume that a tribunal will find something dodgy about a TD........

Oh - hang on - that must apply only to FF members, because you did PRECISELY THAT in your post.

The double-standards and political bull**** is sickening!

Obviously tricks are only "dirty" and objectionable when FF is on the receiving end.

Nobody on this thread has said that, and you yourself have been chief bottle washer for the "Bertie is a guity scumbag" brigade. If you don't like others doing it, then keep your opinions to yourself.

Liam Byrne

ninty9er wrote: »

Nobody on this thread has said that, and you yourself have been chief bottle washer for the "Bertie is a guity scumbag" brigade. If you don't like others doing it, then keep your opinions to yourself.

That's precisely my point! :rolleyes:

Ahern gave 5 contradictory accounts of his finances, therefore something IS dodgy.....despite this, I was still told by FFers to shut up!

So - with my having shut up (despite having SOME "evidence" of something being awry via Ahern's ever-changing testimony) and my awaiting the tribunal result, it's a bit rich when an FFer comes on here with ZERO evidence and throws in a snide dig like that.

If you can point me to an FG member who has lied 5 times about his finances, or ignored corruption or some other dodgy deal then I'll gladly judge like with like - before or after a tribunal.

And if you can point me to where FG ignored the obvious and steamrolled ahead with dodgy economic policies, despite all the warnings, then I'll gladly criticise them for that, too.

But otherwise, as you say yourself : keep your opinions to yourself.

I guess the truth hurts. Ahern has earned his dodgy reputation. And if someone else has - regardless of what party he or she is in - just let me know. I'm not blinded by party loyalty and will treat like with like (even to the point of castigating a former well-respected FG-er - Alan Dukes - for his new stance in defending the banks; he's damaged his reputation in my eyes).

Red_Marauder

skearon wrote: »

Its fairly easy to research which current members of the opposition were sitting in cabinet at the time

No that's not the question, we all know who was in cabinet.

I asked you which senior Fine Gael party members were investigated by Mahon (and therefore, upon whom can Mahon render a finding)?

Pot Noodle =

Who was it

rcecil

In the U.S. Sir Ronald Reagan set the model for corporate control in motion, leading to bankrupt states and wars around the world. While there has always been an aristocracy in Ireland, it has never been so arrogant and greedy until now. If Irish voters continue to let the corporate parties lead the government there is no one to blame except themselves. Democracy can work. Use the power and stop bitchin'.

Check out Sinn Fein on the issues at this Saturday's Ard fheis on RTE at 11-1 and for Gerry Adams address at 8 pm.

Red_Marauder

Pot wrote:

Who was it

Mahon did not have to investigate any such senior figures in modern day FG. He's just talking rubbish.

In fact, it was Fine Gael who sent up a motion of confidence in the Mahon Tribunal to underline their vehement support, at a time when their colleagues across the floor in FF supported Ahern and kept quiet on attacks against the tribunal during Ahern's evidence.