Friend going too far

ztoical

Mad Mini wrote: »

I was not in the room when my friend confronted the guy. I was in the kitchen. They were in the living room. Seemingly he said "please don't tell her, I will do anything you want." She then had him drinking water from a basin on the floor like a dog, and then dress up and serve us. He had to call us madam and generally be respectful. We did not assault him. He seemed very shocked. We made him do a few other things such as admitting he was a rotter etc.

I'm sorry but under the law you did assault him. Making someone do something they don't want is assault, you don't need to have physically touched him to have it be assault.

mood

ManOfMystery wrote: »

You and your friend should be careful you don't find yourselves locked up, this may seem funny but it's very serious. It wouldn't be unheard of for that guy to report you both to the police even if it means his wife finding out about it.

Agree. I think you need to question your own action (and lack of) as well as your friends.

The Hill Billy

Mad Mini wrote: »

I was not in the room when my friend confronted the guy. I was in the kitchen. They were in the living room. Seemingly he said "please don't tell her, I will do anything you want." She then had him drinking water from a basin on the floor like a dog, and then dress up and serve us. He had to call us madam and generally be respectful. We did not assault him. He seemed very shocked. We made him do a few other things such as admitting he was a rotter etc.

So, that was just a start? Now your friend wants to bring more people in on this & humiliate him further?

If she continues with this she may well put herself in grave danger. If this man sees that there is little or no possibility of the situation ending he may well become desperate. Desperate men may take desperate measures.

Your friend is a danger to herself, you & anyone else that she gets involved.

Miss Fluff

Mad Mini wrote: »

We did not assault him.

I think you'll find you did actually. You might like to have a read of Section 2 of the Non-Fatal Offences Against the Person Act 1997, specifically:

2.—(1) A person shall be guilty of the offence of assault who, without lawful excuse, intentionally or recklessly—

[GA] ( a ) directly or indirectly applies force to or causes an impact on the body of another, or

[GA] ( b ) causes another to believe on reasonable grounds that he or she is likely immediately to be subjected to any such force or impact.


So yes, you are both guilty of assault. And if it was a bloke who was the OP here, there'd be carnage....

newmember2

Miss Fluff wrote: »

I think you'll find you did actually. You might like to have a read of Section 2 of the Non-Fatal Offences Against the Person Act 1997, specifically:

2.—(1) A person shall be guilty of the offence of assault who, without lawful excuse, intentionally or recklessly—

[GA] ( a ) directly or indirectly applies force to or causes an impact on the body of another, or

[GA] ( b ) causes another to believe on reasonable grounds that he or she is likely immediately to be subjected to any such force or impact.


So yes, you are both guilty of assault. And if it was a bloke who was the OP here, there'd be carnage....

What's quoted above does not apply at all to the OP's case. There was no impact or threat of impact in the OP's case.

Blackmail is an offence though.

ztoical

newmember? wrote: »

What's quoted above does not apply at all to the OP's case. There was no impact or threat of impact in the OP's case.

Blackmail is an offence though.

force as defined in the act includes things like light and sound as well as modern applications such as text message and cyber staking, its not limited to physical impacts. The act also covers physical and mental assault which this type of abuse would fall under.

Neyite

Op... im sorry if this sound harsh, but if you and your friend thought treating another human being like this is hilarious, i can see why you both are still looking for mr. right.

like attracts like - if you are a kind, loyal person, you will attract people who see those qualities in you. consider who you will attract with the behaviour you and your friend demonstrate.

if i ever heard a date did this to someone, i would run away because it raises serious questions about how they would treat me when times are tough (and the very best of relationships have them)

distance yourself from your friend, she is on a power trip that can have legal and moral consequences for both of you if you dont. you, on the other hand, seem to have a bit of cop on to know you crossed a line.

Miss Fluff

ztoical wrote: »

force as defined in the act includes things like light and sound as well as modern applications such as text message and cyber staking, its not limited to physical impacts. The act also covers physical and mental assault which this type of abuse would fall under.

Exactly. And:

causes another to believe on reasonable grounds that he or she is likely immediately to be subjected to any such force or impact.

I would hazard a guess that the victim was in fear over what was to happen next. Were I to be treated like a dog and made lick water out of a bowl, I wouldn't expect the perpetrators to then invite me to sit down and have a nice chat about the weather and the recession.

Nevyn

Mad Mini wrote: »

I was not in the room when my friend confronted the guy. I was in the kitchen. They were in the living room. Seemingly he said "please don't tell her, I will do anything you want." She then had him drinking water from a basin on the floor like a dog, and then dress up and serve us. He had to call us madam and generally be respectful. We did not assault him. He seemed very shocked. We made him do a few other things such as admitting he was a rotter etc.

Unless there is a consensual kink relationship between your friend and the man and this is all some sort of elaborate set up to for fill some sort of fantasy which you are part of and agreed to by taking part, then what your friend is doing to that man is sick, twisted and wrong on so many levels.

She is violating his rights, taking advantage of him and abusing him.
She needs to go into counseling and sort out her issues with men and leave him alone.

Mensch Maschine

See that's one of the problems right there. Searching for Mr Right. How about searching for a nice male friend and see how you go on from there. You are setting standards here, looking for potential marriage material out in a pub? Why don't you try meeting men in a different social setting. The web can be good. Go on a date for coffee, a walk something similar.

I'd say a good percentage of men wouldn't be lying about there marital status and trying to score if they were stone cold sober going for a meeting in a nice coffee shop. Instead, if you go to meet them, in a pub, drunk, horny surrounded by 'skirt', they'll say anything to get to bed with ya.

Don't get me wrong, a pub or club can be a great place to meet someone you like, especially if you are both there out of mutual interest for a particular DJ/Band/Comedian or something, just don't be looking for Mr Right. Sounds desparate.

Anyway, I wouldn't get involved with in your friends blackmailing mind games. There's children involved and if your friend did something and the kids are left with out their daddy because of his infidelities well that will be a shame. Rather have a cheating father than no father around at all but the kids don't have to know that.

castle

I think this is a windup,but I have time to reply in case I am wrong

First of blackmail could see you and your friend put in jail, now maybe this guy is getting something out of it anyway,need to ask him, so be careful this guy does not commit suicide ,you don't know him so do something he did not do and be respectful and put his wife and children first,so drop all this stuff or you might have blood on your hands,

Chucky the tree

Hardly surprising both of yous are in your 30s and single.

newmember2

ztoical wrote: »

force as defined in the act includes things like light and sound as well as modern applications such as text message and cyber staking, its not limited to physical impacts. The act also covers physical and mental assault which this type of abuse would fall under.

OT

As I said in my post, the section of the act quoted does not relate to this case. I didn't say that an assault hadn't taken place, only that the sections of the act quoted are not applicable in this case.

OP - are you seriously asking the question is it a good idea to go along with your friend's wishes? This is like something you might have got away with in the playground but that's about as far as it goes. You can't do things like this in adult life. Your friend sounds like she has serious men issues.

RandolphEsq

It's no wonder your friend is single; how does she always end up with married men? Oh, because they keep buying her drinks and she is shallow and immature enough to equate these men buying her drinks to the men being 'mr. right' (Of course it has nothing to do with the men feeling like they have to compensate for the whole wife and kids thing because (god forbid) if your friend found out BEFORE she was bought drinks that he was married, she would get out of there).
I'm not sure what sort of partner a sadist attracts, but your friend should find out, and hang out with those people if she wants a man.
'Mad Mini' is right

stovelid

If the guy in question has a shred of sense, he's already sounded out legal advice.

Personally speaking, it would almost be worth him spilling the beans to his wife in order to bring your friend to book.

Jo King

stovelid wrote: »

If the guy in question has a shred of sense, he's already sounded out legal advice.

Personally speaking, it would almost be worth him spilling the beans to his wife in order to bring your friend to book.

That makes no sense. If he did not want to do it he would have gone home and told his wife in the first place. He volunteered for everything he did. Humiliating someone is not an offence. For an assault the force has to be involuntary. He asked to do things in order to forestall something he did not want to happen.

stovelid

Jo King wrote: »

He volunteered for everything he did.

He was asking for it, your honor.

PirateShampoo

Jo King wrote: »

That makes no sense. If he did not want to do it he would have gone home and told his wife in the first place. He volunteered for everything he did. Humiliating someone is not an offence. For an assault the force has to be involuntary. He asked to do things in order to forestall something he did not want to happen.

Do you even know how Blackmail works?

ztoical

Jo King wrote: »

That makes no sense. If he did not want to do it he would have gone home and told his wife in the first place. He volunteered for everything he did. Humiliating someone is not an offence. For an assault the force has to be involuntary. He asked to do things in order to forestall something he did not want to happen.

Volunteered? funny choice of words. He consented to acts under threat that's not volunteering. If a guy tells a girl she has to sleep with him or he's going to tell her friends/parents/etc something bad she's done [cheated on test for example] is that ok cus she volunteered for it?

Humiliating someone is abuse - physical and verbal abuse are viewed as one in the same in the eyes of the law.

The Corinthian

Jo King wrote: »

That makes no sense. If he did not want to do it he would have gone home and told his wife in the first place. He volunteered for everything he did. Humiliating someone is not an offence. For an assault the force has to be involuntary. He asked to do things in order to forestall something he did not want to happen.

So if someone gave you a choice between giving your boss a blow-job and losing your job and you chose humiliation, does that mean you volunteered giving your boss a blow-job?

Just to be clear - I do not believe that legally this was a physical assault (although there is a case for sexual assault as the definition is wider), however it is blackmail and this is a serious criminal offence.

stovelid

ztoical wrote: »

Volunteered? funny choice of words..

It beggars belief that a blurted exclamation along the lines of I will do anything you want is actually being advanced as consent to the degradation of somebody against their will.

As said, if the genders were reversed in this case, there would be utter uproar.

Pete4779

Mad Mini wrote: »

I have a friend who is in her early 30's. We often go out together hoping to find Mr. Right. She was going out with a guy for six weeks. It turned out that he was married and living with his wife and children. This was about 5 years ago. She now hates meeting married guys on the prowl. She often hangs around with them all night and disappears at the end after getting them to buy loads of drink. Recently she brought a guy home thinking he was ok. Three days later, after no contact she saw him with children. She hung around and saw him bring them to a car. They all sat in the car. After a few minutes a woman came out of a nearby hairdressers and came towards them. She took out her phone and photagraphed the woman. She waited until they drove off and went back to the hairdressers. She said that she had found a silver ring( showing them her own ring) in the car park and she thought a woman who had come out of their shop had dropped it. She described the woman she had photographed. They gave her the name and phone number of the woman. A few days later the guy contacted her asking for a date. She agreed to a date.
When he called around to collect her I was in the apartment with her. She let him in and sat him down. Then she told him she knew he was married. She showed him the photograph and told him his wife's name. He was shocked. She then told him that unless he did exactly as she told him she would tell his wife. She then spent a few hours humiliating him. She got me involved in it as well. It was hilarious and we had a good giggle afterwards.
The thing is she now wants to contact him and force him to come around so she can do the same thing again. She also wants to get more of our friends involved. I think she is going too far. He might turn violent. She says that he deserves it, he is only a rat. I don't know what to do. I do not want to break up a friendship over an unfaithful husband, but I think she should move on.

She sounds entirely unhinged and I would not get involved in her "world". She is the one "on the prowl" getting guys to buy her drinks. Her reason to stay in contact with current man is to humiliate or blackmail him. Her last relationship was 5 years ago and for six weeks.

Married guy goes out, some woman keeps knocking back the drinks and then takes him home. That is actually not abnormal. Married women cheat more than men (seeing as 1 in 10 babies born within marriages, the husband is not the actual father).

There is no reason to suggest that he will be violent. In fact, I would say the person doing the stalking (your friend) is more likely to turn violent. She could easily pull a knife on him, seeing as around half of domestic violence cases are committed by women, and she is one demonstrating this odd and deranged behaviour, not him.

Pete4779

Silverharp2 wrote: »

Its also dangerous, in the unlikey situation that the man has a violent personality, backing him into a corner could backfire badly.

A physical response to being blackmailed, humiliated and stalked? You don't need a "violent personality" unless you expect every man to tolerate this insane behaviour by a woman unequivably. It's unacceptable for two men to do this to a woman, and it is unacceptable what the OP and her friend are doing to this man.

ztoical

Jo King wrote: »

He volunteered for everything he did. Humiliating someone is not an offence. For an assault the force has to be involuntary. He asked to do things in order to forestall something he did not want to happen.

Just went back and reread the first post and the woman showed the guy a picture of his wife and kids and knew her name. He doesn't know how she got the picture and it's a good guess he assumed the woman stalked him and could pose a danger to his wife and kids. If she's managed to get a picture of them she could know where he lives, he doesn't know. From his view that could imply a very real threat to his family.

Pete4779

Mad Mini wrote: »

I was not in the room when my friend confronted the guy. I was in the kitchen. They were in the living room. Seemingly he said "please don't tell her, I will do anything you want." She then had him drinking water from a basin on the floor like a dog, and then dress up and serve us. He had to call us madam and generally be respectful. We did not assault him. He seemed very shocked. We made him do a few other things such as admitting he was a rotter etc.

LOl! This has to be a troll.

If you did that, you assaulted him. Doesn't matter if he said anything based on what you had him do, he was not freely consenting. I wonder did your friend photograph the minors as well as his wife? Not sure on the law with regard to keeping photographs of other people's children but I imagine it REALLY ILLEGAL.

becca boop

Mad Mini wrote: »

I have a friend who is in her early 30's. We often go out together hoping to find Mr. Right. She was going out with a guy for six weeks. It turned out that he was married and living with his wife and children. This was about 5 years ago. She now hates meeting married guys on the prowl. She often hangs around with them all night and disappears at the end after getting them to buy loads of drink. Recently she brought a guy home thinking he was ok. Three days later, after no contact she saw him with children. She hung around and saw him bring them to a car. They all sat in the car. After a few minutes a woman came out of a nearby hairdressers and came towards them. She took out her phone and photagraphed the woman. She waited until they drove off and went back to the hairdressers. She said that she had found a silver ring( showing them her own ring) in the car park and she thought a woman who had come out of their shop had dropped it. She described the woman she had photographed. They gave her the name and phone number of the woman. A few days later the guy contacted her asking for a date. She agreed to a date.
When he called around to collect her I was in the apartment with her. She let him in and sat him down. Then she told him she knew he was married. She showed him the photograph and told him his wife's name. He was shocked. She then told him that unless he did exactly as she told him she would tell his wife. She then spent a few hours humiliating him. She got me involved in it as well. It was hilarious and we had a good giggle afterwards.
The thing is she now wants to contact him and force him to come around so she can do the same thing again. She also wants to get more of our friends involved. I think she is going too far. He might turn violent. She says that he deserves it, he is only a rat. I don't know what to do. I do not want to break up a friendship over an unfaithful husband, but I think she should move on.

This thread has got to be a joke???

if not, your friend need's help... and sooner rather than later... also i think you are not blameless in this either... keep going along with these crazy/horrible things and you will have well earned your user name that's for sure.

I think what you did (if this is true) is both disgusting and morally wrong on so many levels it's actually frightening.. What kind of person could think to do all these things... from spying on him in the car to taking pics of the wife and going into the hairdressers to get her number??? Then carrying out this humiliation.. and wanting to continue it.. with more friends??? FATAL ATTRACTION/Single White female isn't a patch on her imo... this girl needs help... what's she going to do with the next guy that p***'s her off???


Guys talk too you know... what if he tells his mates what ye did, and they decide payback is well due???... what then?? just a thought.....

I can see why she's single and you both will be for a very long time...


3 words....Get help....Fast

kjl

OP, I think you should get your friend to go through with it again, and then call the cops and have her locked up for life. She sounds like a sociopath to me. How would you like it if some guy made you drink on the floor like a dog?

You really give single girls over 30 a really bad name. This whole thread is shocking to me, that such weirdos exist baffles me.

Jo King

The Corinthian wrote: »

So if someone gave you a choice between giving your boss a blow-job and losing your job and you chose humiliation, does that mean you volunteered giving your boss a blow-job?

Just to be clear - I do not believe that legally this was a physical assault (although there is a case for sexual assault as the definition is wider), however it is blackmail and this is a serious criminal offence.

So, if a judge says to a defendant " if you put €100 in the poor box before 2' O clock today and I will strike out the charge otherwise I will impose a sentence of one months imprisonment", That is assault if the defendant pays the €100 or else it's blackmail.
There's is a lot of scaremongering going on here. The chances of that guy telling his wife, telling the guards, turning up as a witness in court and allowing the whole thing to be reported in the papers must be pretty close to nil at this stage. If it was to be repeated and get worse he might just tell his wife and take his chances.

Barracudaincork

Jo King wrote: »

So, if a judge says to a defendant " if you put €100 in the poor box before 2' O clock today and I will strike out the charge otherwise I will impose a sentence of one months imprisonment", .

What? How can someone who is ensuring those who break the law are dealt with, the same as someone who actually breaks the law? Maybe you need to pick a different analogy as this one doesnt make sense and doesnt help your case.

The Corinthian

Jo King wrote: »

So, if a judge says to a defendant " if you put €100 in the poor box before 2' O clock today and I will strike out the charge otherwise I will impose a sentence of one months imprisonment", That is assault if the defendant pays the €100 or else it's blackmail.

Probably should be considered blackmail or extortion but it's not in the same way that the government collecting income tax is not considered theft or extortion.

It is the paradox that the State reserves the right to transgress the law in it's defence. This is part of what is called the Hobbesian Contract whereby citizens surrender rights to the State in return for protection.

Hope that answers your question and was educational for you.

There's is a lot of scaremongering going on here. The chances of that guy telling his wife, telling the guards, turning up as a witness in court and allowing the whole thing to be reported in the papers must be pretty close to nil at this stage. If it was to be repeated and get worse he might just tell his wife and take his chances.

I agree, and pretty much said so. Nonetheless you are confusing a crime with the reporting of a crime. As things stand the latter is unlikely, but the former has already happened. If they continue, the latter becomes more likely - and the point is that this is precisely what her friend is planning.