The Republican party (2010)

rightwingdub

I was reading an article by Andrew Sullivan in today's Sunday Times (Irish edition) where he laments the ultra right stance that the GOP are taking on cultural issues, especially on issues like openly homosexual teachers been allowed to teach in public schools, it really is depressing as someone myaself who is sympathetic to the Republican party but would consider myself a supporter of the rapidly diminishing moderate wing of the GOP. Here's the article by Andrew Sullivan.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/andrew_sullivan/article7034759.ece

I really do despair at the state of the modern Republican party, personally I'm opposed to abortion (accept in cases of rape, incest or where the life of the mother is in danger), I would support same sex unions not gay marriage but I despair at the GOP's obsession with cultural issues instead of focusing on the economy and getting out of Iraq and Afghanisthan.

Its time for the GOP to reclaim the centre ground of American politics, even Reagan took pragmatic centrist positions on certain issues. The GOP need to return to the ideals of politicians like Ike Eisenhower, Teddy Roosevelt and Abe Lincoln. Come on the centrist Republicans and kick the fundies out of the GOP, if the fundies have their way the Republicans will be out of the White House for the next 20 years.

Permabear

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rightwingdub

donegalfella wrote: »

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Sullivan supported Obama because of the disastrous foreign policy that was pursued under Bush, he also has become disillusioned with the GOP because of their obsession with cultural issues, political parties need to change if they are to politically relevant in the future, look at the British tories they have become more centrist and pragmatic under Cameron and they have a good chance of winning the next election. Ike Eisenhower moved the Republicans to the centre in 1952 and looked what happened he subsequently delivered 2 thumping presidential victories in 1952 and 1956.

2012 will be very different from 1980 in presidential contests, the Republicans need to choose a pragmatic centrist if they are to have any chance of beating Obama, issues like the environment need to be part of the GOP agenda as well as doing some sort of deal on illegal immigration, if the GOP refuse to support any deal on illegal immigration then they can kiss goodbye to the Hispanic for at least a generation.

Valmont

rightwingdub wrote: »

if the GOP refuse to support any deal on illegal immigration then they can kiss goodbye to the Hispanic for at least a generation.

That is especially bad considering that Texas could become a blue state in the next few years*. I can see the GOP becoming obsolete if they keep focusing on the cultural issues like you said. Although with the Republican Liberty Caucus I suppose there is still hope.

* I read that in the economist last year but I can't find a link to the article

rightwingdub

Valmont wrote: »

That is especially bad considering that Texas could become a blue state in the next few years*. I can see the GOP becoming obsolete if they keep focusing on the cultural issues like you said. Although with the Republican Liberty Caucus I suppose there is still hope.

* I read that in the economist last year but I can't find a link to the article

Also Georgia could become a blue state in the next election the way the GOP are going, McCain only win it 52-47 in 2008, Texas ithink went GOP 54-45% but your right with Texas's growing Hispanic population Texas could once again become a blue state, believe it or not Bush Jr wanted to do a deal on illegal immigration from 2005-07 but the ultra right element in the GOP trenchantly refused to allow a pathway to citizenship so I suppose Bush was clued in on one issue that of the goring Hispanic vote in the US, Bush Jr was actually quit respected amongst the Hispanic population, he got 44% of the Hispanic vote in 2004 and McCain was quite sympathetic towards illegal immigrants as well.

In 1986 Reagan signed a bill that granted amnesty to 3 million illegal immigrants, people say Reagan was very right wing but he was pragmatic on quite a few issues like illegal immigration and homosexuality.

I would actually be a supporter of moderate Republicans like Giuliani, Arnie from california, Charles Crist (Governor of FloridA), Susan Collins, Olympia Snowe and other rare moderate Republican politicians. If McCain had won in 2008 I actually believe he would have been a centrist Republican president who have have compromised with the Democratic Congress and Senate on issues like the environment, illegal immigration, the economy and Guatanamo Bay.

If Palin or Huckabee get the GOP nomination in 2012 then I predict that they will be destroyed by Obama. In the words of Ike Eisenhower "The middle of the road is all of the usable surface. The extremes, right and left, are in the gutters", the Republicans should remember that in 2012.

I'm right wing by European standards but I'd be centrist by American standards and thats the direction the GOP need to take in 2012.

kev9100

rightwingdub wrote: »

Its time for the GOP to reclaim the centre ground of American politics, even Reagan took pragmatic centrist positions on certain issues. The GOP need to return to the ideals of politicians like Ike Eisenhower, Teddy Roosevelt and Abe Lincoln. Come on the centrist Republicans and kick the fundies out of the GOP, if the fundies have their way the Republicans will be out of the White House for the next 20 years.

I completely agree. I find the modern day Republican Party incredibly divisive and completely unelectable, especially when it comes to presidential elections. Middle America hates right-wingers like Sarah Palin and Michelle Bachmann just as much as they hate democratic socialists like myself:rolleyes:.

Overheal

rightwingdub wrote: »

I was reading an article by Andrew Sullivan in today's Sunday Times (Irish edition) where he laments the ultra right stance that the GOP are taking on cultural issues, especially on issues like openly homosexual teachers been allowed to teach in public schools, it really is depressing as someone myaself who is sympathetic to the Republican party but would consider myself a supporter of the rapidly diminishing moderate wing of the GOP. Here's the article by Andrew Sullivan.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/andrew_sullivan/article7034759.ece

I really do despair at the state of the modern Republican party, personally I'm opposed to abortion (accept in cases of rape, incest or where the life of the mother is in danger), I would support same sex unions not gay marriage but I despair at the GOP's obsession with cultural issues instead of focusing on the economy and getting out of Iraq and Afghanisthan.

Its time for the GOP to reclaim the centre ground of American politics, even Reagan took pragmatic centrist positions on certain issues. The GOP need to return to the ideals of politicians like Ike Eisenhower, Teddy Roosevelt and Abe Lincoln. Come on the centrist Republicans and kick the fundies out of the GOP, if the fundies have their way the Republicans will be out of the White House for the next 20 years.

Life of the Woman. She isn't a Mother until she's had a Child. But I dont want to turn this into one of *many* Cyclical and controversial discussions which have no Conclusions.

You can't have a GOP that doesn't run on a Conservative Base. Sorry. Not Happening. If you want a party that is going to run Full Steam on things like the Economy then you want a Third Party. The GOP is Supported by a Christian Right like the Democratic Party is supported by a Social, Liberal Left. And I mean neither as a Slur, just a Statement. Their voters care about these issues, like not wanting their kids exposed to Sexuality Issues in school, Union Rights, etc. etc. etc.

As for Afghanistan and Iraq I thought you were paying attention: They want to Stay, not Leave. Again, the GOP campaigns on a Strong Patriotic America. Not America the Gentle Diplomat. Im not saying I agree one way or the other mind, but thats what I see out of the GOP.

Re-reading your OP you're either an Independent or you need to jump on one of these Third Parties - such as the Tea Party Patriots, who appear to be Campaigning purely on Economic, not Social Issues.

Permabear

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Black Swan

The Republicans will regain a few more seats in the US House and Senate in 2010 (but not a majority in either), not because of a compelling Republican political platform or leadership, but rather because of "It's the economy stupid" mantra of political outcomes. So long as the economy remains in a sad state, with too much unemployment, mortgage foreclosures, and small business failures, the Democrats will see an erosion of seats.

To suggest that a third party will emerge to save the day is pure fantasy, and such attempts like the Tea Party Patriots will split the Republican vote if they propose their own presidential candidate in 2012. More than likely the Tea Party Patriots will NOT propose their own candidate, but rather take off their sheep's clothing in 2012 and back whomever the GOP nominates.

BluePlanet

I agree with Blue_Lagoon

The Tea-Party remind me very much of another short-lived, populist gathering: remember Ross Perot and his Reform Party?
Before Jesse Ventura I mean.

I reckon most of those original Ross Perot types lumped in with the GOP once all the din had died down.

rightwingdub

Blue_Lagoon wrote: »

The Republicans will regain a few more seats in the US House and Senate in 2010 (but not a majority in either), not because of a compelling Republican political platform or leadership, but rather because of "It's the economy stupid" mantra of political outcomes. So long as the economy remains in a sad state, with too much unemployment, mortgage foreclosures, and small business failures, the Democrats will see an erosion of seats.

To suggest that a third party will emerge to save the day is pure fantasy, and such attempts like the Tea Party Patriots will split the Republican vote if they propose their own presidential candidate in 2012. More than likely the Tea Party Patriots will NOT propose their own candidate, but rather take off their sheep's clothing in 2012 and back whomever the GOP nominates.

I can't stand the TEA party they are a bunch of fools and they will cause huge long term damage to the Republican party, there running a candidate against Charlie Crist for the Republican governor nomination in Florida, also there trying to sabotage mccain's bid for reelection.

Black Swan

BluePlanet wrote: »

Before Jesse Ventura I mean.

The only party I remember reading about when you mention Jesse is the one that lasted over 2 days after he won the MN governorship. His party was hung over after that, as was his new office, slipping in popularity until his term ended.

rightwingdub

donegalfella wrote: »

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Sullivan also supported Bill Clinton in 1992 and Kerry in 2004 so he has been known to support other Democrat candidates beside Obama. I wanted Kerry to beat Bush Jr in 2004, I wanted McCain to win in 2008.

Overheal the Republicans have many sound conservative positions, Its a shame that Bush Jr was such a spendthrift Christian socialist;) when he let spending spiral out of control when the GOP controlled congress from 2000 to 2006 under Bush Jr's presidency.

I do support a balanced budget amendement and I would be opposed to Obama's stimulus package as well as most of Obama's healthcare legislation, the aspects of healthcare legislation that I would support would be healthcare insurance in cases of catostrophic illness and a legal obligation for insurance companies to provide insurance to people with pre existing health conditions. The Republicans can't be opposing all of Obama's legislation just for the sake of it, there needs to be some bi-partisanship. At least when the GOP controlled congress adn the senate during Clinton's presidency they were able to come up with constructive compromises and as a result government worked better.

Overheal

Well the Problem with the Tea Party and Third Parties is they campaign on such a narrow focus its difficult to gain supporters. If the Economy is still in the Sh*ts by the time the election rolls around they may announce themselves as a player, but once some other issue raises its head (Dont ask Dont Tell; Abortion; Religion in Public Places; Gay Marriages; The Middle East) They will be left scrambling to formulate a Stance, one that not all Tea Party Patriots actually support. The only thing TPPs agree on is Economic Issues; the differences begin formulating on just about any other issue, and their voter base will fall apart during a drawn out election.

mattblacktiger

I think the tea partiers will hitch their wagon to Ron Paul
and he will run as a 3rd party candidate.
Over here it's about the economy and always will be , do you really think anyone cares about foreign policy or gay marriage when they don't know when their next paycheque is coming in...
I have had to cut my small company down to 3 of us as the work just isn't there right now and I don't see it improving any time soon. Hopefully I'm wrong.....

rightwingdub

mattblacktiger wrote: »

I think the tea partiers will hitch their wagon to Ron Paul
and he will run as a 3rd party candidate.
Over here it's about the economy and always will be , do you really think anyone cares about foreign policy or gay marriage when they don't know when their next paycheque is coming in...
I have had to cut my small company down to 3 of us as the work just isn't there right now and I don't see it improving any time soon. Hopefully I'm wrong.....

I'm sorry to hear about your tough times at the moment, I hope your business comes out stronger when the recession ends, lets be positive here. I'd say more moderate Republicans want to focus on the economy but you have all the religious right loonies focusing on the same cultural issues like as if the economy doesn't matter, as for Sarah Palin, McCain must have been having one hell of senior moment when he decided to nominate her as his running mate.

mattblacktiger

rightwingdub wrote: »

I'm sorry to hear about your tough times at the moment, I hope your business comes out stronger when the recession ends, lets be positive here. I'd say more moderate Republicans want to focus on the economy but you have all the religious right loonies focusing on the same cultural issues like as if the economy doesn't matter, as for Sarah Palin, McCain must have been having one hell of senior moment when he decided to nominate her as his running mate.

Nothing I haven't been through before , remember the 80's in Dublin?
I would like to see a return to common sense.
But there is nowhere else I would like to be as this country has been very good to me , if your willing to work hard you will be rewarded for it.
There are no quick fixes and as soon as people start realizing that the better off we'll be.