anyone heard of "Bloom Energy" .. residential fuel cells??

zod

After almost a decade of development and hundreds of millions in investment, Bloom Energy is coming out.

Until now, all we've been able to garner were "no comments" from their marketing people. But this weekend, there's a Bloom piece airing on 60 Minutes that will feature none other than Greentech Media editor-in-chief Michael Kanellos. And next week is the official press conference and unveiling.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B2m3jmN_jTc

http://www.triplepundit.com/2010/02/bloom-box-fuel-cell-energy/

It seems to be some sort of fuel cell that runs on a cheap fuel source .. hardly hydrogen ?

Apparently this is part financed by John Doerr .. who is a super successfull venture capitalist (turned green) .. his talk on ted here :

http://www.ted.com/talks/john_doerr_sees_salvation_and_profit_in_greentech.html

Macha

I'd never heard of the company or their product until I read your post but came across this article on them this morning:

http://ecogeek.org/efficiency/3079

It definitely looks promising. Higher efficiencies are always welcome.

zod

if it's as good as they say, then it's big news alright

http://www.breakingglobalnews.com/bloom-energys-bloombox-fuel-cell/1222998

full 60 minutes clip here : http://www.i4u.com/article31055.html

mike65

Guardian article
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2010/feb/22/bloom-box-fuel-cell-launch

The launch is on Wednesday so expect a lively blog debate late Wednesday or early Thursday.

robtri

looks interesting....
curious to see the full details...

zod

According to U.S. government statistics, in October 2009, the cost of coal as a fuel for electrical generation plants was about $2.17 per million BTUs. The cost of natural gas was $4.78. Electric utilities use natural gas for so-called peak power, because the generators can be brought up or down quickly but that are more expensive to fuel. However, divide the $4.78 by 2, and you’re down in roughly the same range. In other words, if the figures we’re hearing are right, Bloom’s devices could be cost competitive with coal.

That means Google could buy plenty of units — think of the company’s bank account and cash flow — and install them to run data centers and then sell off the extra wholesale. Suddenly Google could be in the electric business, creating power farms as readily as it assembles server farms, powering its own data centers, and making extra capacity available. That’s potentially a lot of money coming from nothing more than pushing electrons a little differently than it usually does.



Google to sell electricity - its power now out of hand?

Sergeant

There has been quite a bit of speculation about this product at conferences I have attended. Distributed power generation is a noble aim, especially in remote and underdeveloped areas.
Interesting to see what fuel source they can use. Even if it makes use of a fossil, or methane based fuel, the efficiencies gained as opposed to the loose in centralised generation and transmission make it a viable proposition.

Alun

The thing I find odd is this comment in the Grauniad article ...

Grauniad wrote:

But its real potential lies in its claimed ability to use any fuel source – gas, plants, wind, solar, etc – to generate power...

Doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me and all sounds a bit Steorn like.

Sergeant

SOFC have been around for decades. So far, they have been inefficient as they have a short lifespan, run at high temperatures, and are less cost effective that 1)Fossil, 2)Renewable.


http://www.neco.com.au/bluegen --Commercially available.
http://www.energy.siemens.com/hq/en/power-generation/fuel-cells/

So Bloom is either going to be an effective marketing exercise, or it introduces a new cost/reliability/fuel supply paradigm.

robtri

can't find the article i read earlier ...
but it said that the Bloon Box was not for domestic use... maybe in a few years...
unit the size needed to power a normal starbucks... $800,000 :eek::eek::eek:

zod

Bloom Boxes don't come cheap--companies pay $700,000 to $800,000 a pop--but Cole estimates that eBay's system will pay for itself within three years. Since the system started running seven months ago, eBay has already saved $100,000 in electricity costs compared to power from the grid.

At the moment, eBay is running its Bloom Boxes off natural gas, but the company plans to switch to biogas sometime in the near future. "We're in the stages of finalizing the contract to turn on biogas," Cole explained. Once the system switches to biogas, CO2 will not longer be released as a byproduct of the Bloom Box energy production process.

http://www.fastcompany.com/1560450/bloom-box-ebay-interview?partner=rss

Dara Robinson

if they are what they say they are and it comes to fruition as they want should be amazing.

They are saying that it should cost as low as 3k us for a house hold sized one and thats the US sized one. EU one was half that size so could be as little as 2k euro. Thats would be great

Macha

Dara Robinson wrote: »

if they are what they say they are and it comes to fruition as they want should be amazing.

The problem is, they're a little short on the details. This reminds me of Steorn a few years ago - still waiting for that miracle to happen.

robtri

taconnol wrote: »

The problem is, they're a little short on the details. This reminds me of Steorn a few years ago - still waiting for that miracle to happen.

but they have large full scale units already in place with Ebay and others...

even if the bought out a household one for 3k...... the payback would be a long time i would say....

Macha

robtri wrote: »

but they have large full scale units already in place with Ebay and others...

Sure but the American grid is notoriously is notoriously inefficient so saying its twice as efficient as American grid energy isn't exactly amazing.

The American grid can also be unreliable so its very possible that Ebay and other companies have installed the units for security of supply and perhaps to reduce energy costs. In Ireland, Intel wanted to install their own energy generators (cant remember what type) as energy is a large part of their costs.

None of this means that the Bloom box is a major breakthrough. They might be - but they just haven't explained quite how yet (for example, where do they get their hydrogen from?).

I am willing to be convinced

robtri

taconnol wrote: »

Sure but the American grid is notoriously is notoriously inefficient so saying its twice as efficient as American grid energy isn't exactly amazing.

The American grid can also be unreliable so its very possible that Ebay and other companies have installed the units for security of supply and perhaps to reduce energy costs. In Ireland, Intel wanted to install their own energy generators (cant remember what type) as energy is a large part of their costs.

None of this means that the Bloom box is a major breakthrough. They might be - but they just haven't explained quite how yet (for example, where do they get their hydrogen from?).

I am willing to be convinced

if it was security of supply.. ebay I am sure would have worked with back up Benerators and UPS supply to bridge the gap from power drop to generator start up... a lot less expensive thatn install numerous of these units....

why you ask a bout hydrogen.....

ebays one run natural gas....

zod

Up to 50% of electricity is lost in transmission

We are not in Kansas anymore ..

http://www.engadget.com/2010/02/24/live-from-the-bloom-box-press-event/

hick

We're a bit a away from residential units but the plan is to get them down to $3000 in the future, currently they come in at $700,000 and produce 100Kw
If this crowd take off I'll definetly get one!

http://www.gizmag.com/bloom-energy-server-fuel-cell-launched/14328/?utm_source=Gizmag+Subscribers&utm_campaign=53e52526c6-UA-2235360-4&utm_medium=email

zod

interesting line @ 2:10 .. Moores law equivalent in efficiency

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5RehT-Do9bs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FV96eLggmD8

Mahatma coat

when they say 'BioGas' we're basicly talkin Methane right??

that'd be excelent, a genny that ya could power from the vent in the septic, nothin but yer initial outlay and yer continued eatin;)etc

Morrisseeee

OK just found this and it does sound............interesting. But.........I have a few simple Q's (hopefully not stupid ones): scenario: taking an average home, we buy a single 'stack' at say ~€3000, but it then also needs (some form of) gas to run it, so...
1. How much will this cost ? (ie. how much gas does it need ?)
2. Could it possibly be run from a cylinder of gas ?
3. What will the installation costs be ? (also depends on what type of gas you will be using I'd imagine!!)
4. When will my 'stack' run out ? (thought I saw 5 years being mentioned !!)
5. Can I buy shares in this company ?

/.....I'll flag it in my 'brain' as 'watch with interest'

zod

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wgMZ_M4TmcM

SLUSK

Very much hype.
Very little data.

I shall remain skeptical.

Macha

zod, please provide some commentary on your links, be they links to articles or videos

Cunsiderthis

SLUSK wrote: »

Very much hype.
Very little data.

I shall remain skeptical.

The only intelligent position, on most issues, is to remain sceptical .

I have found this very interesting so far, and agree its high on hype and low on details, or even how its supposed to work.

Having said that, I'm fascinated to find out more...

Cunsiderthis

Having done a little research on what appears to be a major step forward in electricity and power production, it appear the Bloom Box is not unique. Solid oxide fuel cells are also produce by a UK company (Ceres Power) and Ceramic Fuel Cells in Australia/Germany. Both the latter have products close to being launched on the market for domestic and commercial use, and it's unclear whether Bloom, or Ceres Power or Ceramic Fuel Cells have significant differences from each other.

I think we should watch this space in what might prove to be an interesting market.