airsoft tournament

SNAKEDOC

well guys was thinking what would make airsoft more exciting. i read that mac have the king of the jungle game where the winners are challenged every week or so and if they are beat then the winners are then challenged. its a great idea.
but i was thinking what about the premiership of airsoft. a table of teams and each team play every other team twice with a points based system to find the winners. instead of away games or stuff like that you could have men killed in action team members left after the game and amount of kills. i think that it would allow sites to get the buisnss they need and also work to promote the sport in a good safe manner. Also the tournament would allow for a more long term base for the sport where as the take aim game is on a weekend the tournament would be run for months at a time. obviously this would take a huge amount of time and effort from everybody involved but i just thought of it and thought that the rest of the airsoft community could help brain storm. Before someone points out the fact that the table was thought of before it was not really implemented so i just want to gauge the response from this thread and maybe try and make it work. a post would be much appriciated

Clemen

that sounds like a great idea

kdouglas

It's been tried before; http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055241468

Never really got off the ground. There's also the take AIM cup which is reasonably successful.

Personally, I think the idea of a league is a terrible idea, it's not what airsoft is about for me and I don't understand what the fascination is with competition-style airsoft in Ireland, nowhere else in the world really does it, except for some places where practical shooting is popular.

SNAKEDOC

i know it was tried before in a challenge format where the leaders could not challenge anybody and if beat they swapped position with the challengers. this would be different it would allow teams to play other teams from around the country and play a home and away game. each team can choose where to play one of the matches and this allows teams without a home turf to still enter. sure its competitive but the sport is also fun and you get to play with other people that we don't necessarily play with. also we get to visit other sites and promote the sport by supporting business and local airsoft shops. the tournament is just an idea to help airsoft on its way. and bring airsofters together more often than once every 6 months at the take aim cup for two days. and this keeps every body in the game until the end where as the take aim cup is knock out style and not fair on the teams knocked out in the first round. my idea may be crap but i think if a few people that were like minded meet up we could get it off the ground. it's all in the aim of fair play and sportsmanship. it's not about winning and been competitive.

gerrowadat

KD is right, this was tried before, and never really got off the ground, but that wasn't due to it not being a bad idea or lack of commitment, it just didn't for other reasons. I still think it's a good idea.

However, the one big thing you're going to run into is teams with differing philosophies on the game. I still run into people who honestly have no idea how you can field a support gunner with less than 3000 rounds. Catering to everyone isn't really going to happen on a grand scale.

Another big thing, of course, is that competitive Airsoft turns a lot of teams and players right off, and there'd still be some simpletons out there who think that being on top of this league somehow makes them the best team. It's a bit of craic, but the further you get involved the more it becomes a willy waving contest.

That said, best of luck if you want to do it. I'm happy to post the set of rules myself and the other lads came up with if someone else wants to run with it.

SNAKEDOC

yea if you wouldn't mind g that would be cool. thanks for the post. like you said i don't believe a tournament or a league can truly gauge the best team in the country, but, if you take into account the fact that matches would be on a home away basis so a team is going to be out of their comfort zone for at least 50% of the time. this always lets the good teams shine from my experience anyway. if there is anybody else with any thoughts please post a comment.

captaindanwaldo

Another big thing, of course, is that competitive Airsoft turns a lot of teams and players right off

The simple answer to that would be to reduce the size of the teams. It could allow more dedicated teams to enter without requiring them to take on 'space fillers'. it would also break down some of the larger teams and pit them against each other which could be intresting and it would create greater diversity and a greater standard among the teams participating.

Just a thought

-danny

jeawan

You could do it on the basis of a 4 man fire team this way teams are small they have to use the correct amount of ammo the gun carries in Military forces

A team could consist of support gunner ,rifleman, medic and sniper etc you could have rules on getting hit medic can get you back in but no one else etc and so on that may work as the team would have to have solid tactics and also not just spray and pray as they would be out of ammo.

sliabh

captaindanwaldo wrote: »

The simple answer to that would be to reduce the size of the teams.

I think it has more to do with the nature of Airsoft.

When you get down to it, the idea behind the sport is to shoot someone else, but it is up to that person to say if they were hit. That creates a problem when you want to do anything "competitive". The more there is at stake the greater the temptation to, em, "not notice" your hits.

It's just the nature of how people are. And that is why the Monday after any big competitive event you get posters coming whinging about people not taking hits. Personally I don't think competitive airsoft works, it just isn't that type of sport. But I do see that a lot of people want to try it.

My advice would be to keep it as fun and informal as possible. As soon as anyone starts to take it seriously you will run into problems.

SNAKEDOC

good point sliabh. the non hit taking is a problem that i feel can ruin an event. i have had first hand experience as all of probably have had and it is not pleasant to be called a cheater or to have someone cheat against you in a game. it is a spor and should be played as such. the only thing that i feel is any way good with this is name and shame but some people don't like this either. its hard to please everybody but if i try this it will be in the fairest manner possible for every body. in response to an earlier comment about trying to ind the best team i think that a table of points on different aspects would be good such as points for amount of kills per game and points for men left at the end of the game. also teams can compete one on one at shoot outs like the range they have at droghada airsoft. it won't all be about spray and pray each game will be goal orientated and points for time can be awarded also. there is a wide range of angles to be scored on and also points can be deducted. One other thing i believe in having a head marshal and other deputy marshals to oversee each match so the decision is with one separate party rather than a group.

BioHazRd

From what I see, you are proposing a league. I don't think that is a bad idea, as there are some teams out there who will jump at the chance of regular competitive games.
However, you need to bear in mind that there is also a sizeable number of teams who would not wish to take part in this for their own reasons. For this to get off the ground, you will need a critical mass of teams to sign up for it and remain committed throughout the season or it will just fade away leaving a bad taste in peoples mouths.
It may prove to be a nightmare to coordinate teams too as some teams only play on Sundays and others only play on Saturdays. These will have to be facilitated somehow if they wish to sign up.
You will also need to have a core ruleset that applies to all games and you will need to ensure that marshalling is standardised throughout the league.
You also mention the home and away aspect, and for this to work you will need to get the site operators on board as they will be the ones facilitating the games and potentially turning away paying customers so that two teams can have a league game on their site.
I am not knocking your idea, but rather outlining some of the things that need to be adressed in order for this to be a success.

Good luck

SNAKEDOC

thanks for your input bio all good issues. however before anybody gets ahead of themselves this idea is still only an idea there are no rules drawn up and no official sponser from the IAA which would be crutial. the critical mass issue is nearly number one we do need a set number of teams before the table can be started and teams playing every week or two weeks can sometimes be difficult as it is only a hobby for most. Having sites allow the games on their site will be another big issue and also having enough marshals to go to each as an independant referee would be hard.

Airsoft Reloded

Dave, Dan and myself got a bunch of rules together for the Airsoft Ladder: https://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0AVm7-ayx-_k2ZGhkZzN6d2dfMTV0cHh6N3BnYg&hl=en.

Unfortunately we three are a to busy to get it off the ground nut if its cool with the lads I have no problem with anyone else using them to get something going.

TheDoc

Airsoft Reloded wrote: »

Dave, Dan and myself got a bunch of rules together for the Airsoft Ladder: https://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0AVm7-ayx-_k2ZGhkZzN6d2dfMTV0cHh6N3BnYg&hl=en.

Unfortunately we three are a to busy to get it off the ground nut if its cool with the lads I have no problem with anyone else using them to get something going.

Would have been niced to have been asked before it was published, so now it genuinely doesnt matter if I approve or not, its there

gerrowadat

TheDoc wrote: »

Would have been niced to have been asked before it was published, so now it genuinely doesnt matter if I approve or not, its there : /

Also that document if I'm not mistaken contained some personal comments from myself and Dave, personal opinions etc reflecting different things.

Way to drop the ball in fairness

Gone now anyway.

deco nate

TheDoc wrote: »

Would have been niced to have been asked before it was published, so now it genuinely doesnt matter if I approve or not, its there : /

Also that document if I'm not mistaken contained some personal comments from myself and Dave, personal opinions etc reflecting different things.

Way to drop the ball in fairness

i read it and tbh,i didnt see that just the r&r.maybe he took them out before postin
all the best deco
ps very well thought out game plan.

gerrowadat

deco nate wrote: »

i read it and tbh,i didnt see that just the r&r.maybe he took them out before postin
all the best deco
ps very well thought out game plan.

Yep, there's nothing there that's dodge in my book, but of course this is the Irish Airsoft community, so of course some people will make it their business to get all offended over something.

tbh for me it wasn't a question of time, it was a bit of a philosophical difference over whether there should be a load of money made off it, which would be evident in the comments.

Airsoft Reloded

I read over it beforehand to ensure there was nothing to sensitive inside. Its not the CIA lads relax.

I thought we agreed there was going to be no money made on it and that the best situation was that the IAA would take it over if possible? I'm pretty sure I remember discussing that with you Dave, I said we should charge commercail interests to advertise on the website (including myself), this way we could save the player (and us) from paying for the league itself or I guess we could somehow run it all for free, I'm pretty sure a lot of great leagues are ran that way.

Sure anyway, whatever now there it is.

Oh just to add, you guys said I could use it ages ago once I gave props where props where due. PROPS!

TheDoc

Airsoft Reloded wrote: »

I read over it beforehand to ensure there was nothing to sensitive inside. Its not the CIA lads relax.

I thought we agreed there was going to be no money made on it and that the best situation was that the IAA would take it over if possible? I'm pretty sure I remember discussing that with you Dave, I said we should charge commercail interests to advertise on the website (including myself), this way we could save the player (and us) from paying for the league itself or I guess we could somehow run it all for free, I'm pretty sure a lot of great leagues are ran that way.

Sure anyway, whatever now there it is.

Oh just to add, you guys said I could use it ages ago once I gave props where props where due. PROPS!

I'm over it, genuinely dont care If it goes to useall well and good, it was a good rule set

Airsoft Reloded

TheDoc wrote: »

I'm over it, genuinely dont care If it goes to use all well and good, it was a good rule set

Nah Doc, I'm not using them. As you said there though, you did a great job in making these rules and it would be a shame to let them go to waste ya know.

deco nate

deco nate wrote: »

i read it and tbh,i didnt see that just the r&r.maybe he took them out before postin
all the best deco
ps very well thought out game plan.[/QUOTE]

TheDoc wrote: »

I'm over it, genuinely dont care If it goes to useall well and good, it was a good rule set

Airsoft Reloded wrote: »

Nah Doc, I'm not using them. As you said there though, you did a great job in making these rules and it would be a shame to let them go to waste ya know.

agreed:)

SNAKEDOC

hey guys
dont' quite know what all that was about. if someone has a problem with a post pm the offender and ask them to remove same. i didn't start the thread to have people to start throwing their toys out of the pram. the rules which i haven't looked at yet are much appreciated by the way brian thank you. if anybody does not want them to be used (looking at you doc) say so and i will not even look at them no need for anybody to get upset. so back on thread still no team captains have said if they would be interested so maybe it won't go anywhere. if there is interest i would like to give it a go.

Airsoft Reloded

SNAKEDOC wrote: »

hey guys
dont' quite know what all that was about. if someone has a problem with a post pm the offender and ask them to remove same. i didn't start the thread to have people to start throwing their toys out of the pram. the rules which i haven't looked at yet are much appreciated by the way brian thank you. if anybody does not want them to be used (looking at you doc) say so and i will not even look at them no need for anybody to get upset. so back on thread still no team captains have said if they would be interested so maybe it won't go anywhere. if there is interest i would like to give it a go.

To my knowledge (and please forgive me if I'm speaking out of turn here) the only teams really interested in competitive airsofting are Kosa, A.O.N and The Tigers. Sure others will take you on in their home ground but those teams are the only ones I've seen travelling to take teams on elsewhere (I could be mistaken now), other than the Take Aim cup I mean. If I'm right though thats' not a lot to start with Anthony.

SNAKEDOC

yea. not great numbers. well hopefully some more teams might come forward in a few months tie and a league can be started. thought i might give a thread a go and see the response i got not bad for a first timer:D:D well sure you never know, early days yet. you can't keep a good thing down.

TheDoc

Not speaking on my teams behalf, just myself. Really dont see it being any use.

As one of THE most supportive people for competitive arisoft, I've seen now what I feared it wouldnt turn into.

Contraversy, cheating, and it just attracts the biggest amount of ****ters ever.

Cant say I'd ever get myself involved to particpate or organise a competitve tournament again because as much as it hurts to say, it is actually not what this game is about and it doesnt bring out the best in people.

What it actually brings out is a really bad looking playstyle, that promotes doing things quickly, rather then properly. It brings out aggression, itbrings out moaning and it brings this completely inaccurate reflection on whose good and whose not,which really isnt any use in a competition.

As one of the guys at the take aim weekend helping marshall and organise people, I just have no desire doing it again. It was a decent event, but wathcing some of the games ws painful it was so speedball like, and the general vibe was just not a nice one.


I'd quicker support a massive collection of players, playing milsim, or even a skirmish like the old gatherings, quicker then supporting another competitive event.

And I wasnt throwing the toys out the pram, and if thats what you interpret the toys going up, I cant wait to see you at a "tournament" when some dickhead is going spare at you cause HIS gun chronoed near 2 joules.

Or when a guy is hurling abuse at you for calling him out on his cheating.

Airsoft Reloded

True enough, thats the main reason I wouldn't be bothered either. I have to say hats off to the Take Aim lads for bothering.

TheDoc wrote: »

Not speaking on my teams behalf, just myself. Really dont see it being any use.

As one of THE most supportive people for competitive arisoft, I've seen now what I feared it wouldnt turn into.

Contraversy, cheating, and it just attracts the biggest amount of ****ters ever.

Cant say I'd ever get myself involved to particpate or organise a competitve tournament again because as much as it hurts to say, it is actually not what this game is about and it doesnt bring out the best in people.

What it actually brings out is a really bad looking playstyle, that promotes doing things quickly, rather then properly. It brings out aggression, itbrings out moaning and it brings this completely inaccurate reflection on whose good and whose not,which really isnt any use in a competition.

As one of the guys at the take aim weekend helping marshall and organise people, I just have no desire doing it again. It was a decent event, but wathcing some of the games ws painful it was so speedball like, and the general vibe was just not a nice one.


I'd quicker support a massive collection of players, playing milsim, or even a skirmish like the old gatherings, quicker then supporting another competitive event.

And I wasnt throwing the toys out the pram, and if thats what you interpret the toys going up, I cant wait to see you at a "tournament" when some dickhead is going spare at you cause HIS gun chronoed near 2 joules.

Or when a guy is hurling abuse at you for calling him out on his cheating.

T.w.a.T.

IMO all kind of competition, make the game less fun and take the pleasure away.

Doesn't matter who is winning. If somebody wins, is that make his dick bigger than mine? No!

Firekitten

SNAKEDOC wrote: »

yea if you wouldn't mind g that would be cool. thanks for the post. like you said i don't believe a tournament or a league can truly gauge the best team in the country, but, if you take into account the fact that matches would be on a home away basis so a team is going to be out of their comfort zone for at least 50% of the time. this always lets the good teams shine from my experience anyway. if there is anybody else with any thoughts please post a comment.

yo G! *facepalm*
*mental warning flashes already*
as for the teams comfort zone, surely, the best team doesnt have one? the best team adapts and operates where they need to? Airsoft isnt about comfort zones, decent players can just adapt to a site once on the ground. This 'home and away' concept you envisage makes it sound like football.
Competions like this will only cause trouble, rivalry, and upset. and of course, encourage dick swinging by the so called 'best' which I might point out, is only the best of those that take part, but that will fall on deaf ears once some team is wandering around bullying people into worshinping them because 'they r best team'
Given the state of airsoft here as it is.... further competition style airsoft can only hurt it.

Do you know Ireland is the only country in the WORLD that is so obsessed with team airsoft? Nowhere else in the entire world, that has been playing airsoft decades longer, is this obsessed... I'm not quite sure i get the facination either...

I saw one airsoft site owner today advertising a game for airsoft players without a team... what the heck? Is this what Irish airsoft has become? is this all that is left? it's started up in a short time and burned itself out on the funeral pire of ego... Times coming to pack my bags... What went wrong?

gerrowadat wrote: »

KD is right, this was tried before, and never really got off the ground, but that wasn't due to it not being a bad idea or lack of commitment, it just didn't for other reasons. I still think it's a good idea.

However, the one big thing you're going to run into is teams with differing philosophies on the game. I still run into people who honestly have no idea how you can field a support gunner with less than 3000 rounds. Catering to everyone isn't really going to happen on a grand scale.

Another big thing, of course, is that competitive Airsoft turns a lot of teams and players right off, and there'd still be some simpletons out there who think that being on top of this league somehow makes them the best team. It's a bit of craic, but the further you get involved the more it becomes a willy waving contest.

That said, best of luck if you want to do it. I'm happy to post the set of rules myself and the other lads came up with if someone else wants to run with it.

Probably the best damn post in this topic. Nuff said.

thermo

If people are hesitant to partake in a competition like the take aim cup due to cheating ect, just an idea, run it along the lines of the recently held 'round up competition' held in HRTA? It was an enjoyable day and you don't need to worry about non-hit taking.

Firekitten

It's a good point... its what a lot of us 'fun' competitions use to decide a fair winner. Its simply team tactics against the clock. Bit like the annual swat competitions for LEAs.

TheDoc

thermo wrote: »

If people are hesitant to partake in a competition like the take aim cup due to cheating ect, just an idea, run it along the lines of the recently held 'round up competition' held in HRTA? It was an enjoyable day and you don't need to worry about non-hit taking.

Might not have sounded appealing to most, but after hearing feedback it sounded a decent day.

OK we all want things to shoot back and stuff, but it would be a nice idea the odd time to just brush up on some skills

Firekitten

If people want to be the best , or seen as the best, that style of contest is the only viable method that iliminates problems. American law enforcement units run competitions in that manner using targets rather than force on force and are perfectly happy using it to compare forces. It works... and its fair, and it examines skills and technique, not just who fired more rounds.

Puding

Firekitten wrote: »

If people want to be the best , or seen as the best, that style of contest is the only viable method that iliminates problems. American law enforcement units run competitions in that manner using targets rather than force on force and are perfectly happy using it to compare forces. It works... and its fair, and it examines skills and technique, not just who fired more rounds.

Have to agre, and was pritty much what Paul from htra set up

MacAonghusa

Not sure if it has been mentioned but I like the idea of an individual skills game.

We did something similar in the Reserves and it was great fun (though it involved more navigation, distance judging, memory test etc)

deco nate

Firekitten wrote: »

Do you know Ireland is the only country in the WORLD that is so obsessed with team airsoft? Nowhere else in the entire world, that has been playing airsoft decades longer, is this obsessed... I'm not quite sure i get the facination either...

I saw one airsoft site owner today advertising a game for airsoft players without a team... what the heck? Is this what Irish airsoft has become? is this all that is left? it's started up in a short time and burned itself out on the funeral pire of ego... Times coming to pack my bags... What went wrong?


Probably the best damn post in this topic. Nuff said.[/QUOTE]
regardin teams in ireland: in ireland today,as you know we have teams.
the tigers...aon...hawks....contractors...and many many more teams that are MUCH,MUCH OLDER (clans)
o cuinn(wisdom,chief),o murchadha(sea battler) o broin(raven)an my fave........... o murieadhaigh(ME) (LORD,MASTER)its simple really,its in our blood,to gather together....is to be stronger...TO FIGHT THY ENEMY
dates back to the times when clans fought each other for food,land,women(2008,the battle of mullingar:eek:)
.only now we hit each other with tiny little plastic bb's lol
as for above yea,maybe:cool:
(i was told on here a while ago that google is my friend,well i bloody hope so cause i googled the names,waits for the back lash:p)
so now you now,glad to help,if you have any more questions feel free to ask.
deco(lord,master,if you beleave google):D

dazo

am sure theres bound to be a business out there who would be up for pitching in a bit of money to get the league started off like hunky dories and in return the league could be named after them.
If some teams not up for the competitiveness of the league its not like they are forced to join the league just because other teams have.
As for how to sort out the game styles in the paint balling world there are mainly two types of paint ball there is woods ball which is the basic of the two its basically playing in forest area. then theres speed ball which is far more competitive its all about the speed and skill.
If this league did kick off right am sure that we can get one of the national papers to publish the league status in the sports section. would be a great way of advertising the sport.

Lemming

dazo wrote: »

am sure theres bound to be a business out there who would be up for pitching in a bit of money to get the league started off like hunky dories and in return the league could be named after them.

If this league did kick off right am sure that we can get one of the national papers to publish the league status in the sports section. would be a great way of advertising the sport.

We ain't that big an interest ...

dazo

What about MIA surely they would sponsor a league in the sport which they set up around. As for the newspaper thing i don't mean like a full page just a small article like but with the sport still been small compared to soccer or football chances are slim is there no news papers who do just sport like. What about the take aim mag they may put the league, fixtures and results in the mag.

Gatling

we honestly dont need an airsoft league ,there's very few if any airsoft leagues anywhere ,airsoft is a hobby/sport the moment it becomes totaly about competition its going to ruin it for most players too much emphasis is put on teams you cant play unless your on a team ,your crap because your not on a team ,your not good enought and so on ,

more emphasis should be put on getting more people into playing airsoft and on to sites regularly rather than on oh lets be all about who's the best and who's won what ,its not soccer or most other team sports ,
its honor based ,social based and open to all,
the day its about competition the ego's and the eliteism takes over ,
when it should be about having fun and a laugh with group of like minded people