Advise buying a seondhand hatchback.

macalase

Guys,

I am a first time buyer and looking at buying a car preferably a hatchback, somewhere less that 5000 would be fine. Can come from the uk, don't mind having to travel over there.

I was looking at Almera's, Corolla's, Astra's, Golfs, etc.

I am thinking of going for the Almera, mainly because there seems to be more on them available second hand, on autotrader and carzone.
What size engine should i get, should I get a diesel or a petrol, or does it really matter. Whats the best for tax, vrt, etc.

Any advice would be much appreciated.

Mac

colm_mcm

Almeras are dirt.
Poor safety, awful gearchange, timing chain issues, horrid driving position.

Midnight_EG

A Civic =D

colm_mcm

do you want stuff like aircon, alloys etc?

-Corkie-

A corolla would be best and if your goin uk youll get something nice with a good spec for that price. ignore the nissan they are junk.

colm_mcm

Corolla hatchbacks are an obvious choice for Irish punters buying in the UK and as a result it's hard to get a good one and VRT it for decent money.

-Corkie-

Thats true a mate paid 9k for a 02 last year:eek:. Spotless car though with a nice spec.

David09

colm_mcm wrote: »

Corolla hatchbacks are an obvious choice for Irish punters buying in the UK and as a result it's hard to get a good one and VRT it for decent money.

Toyota Corollas are horrible, overrated, overpriced cars that are equally as bad as nissans to drive. Try a ford focus or peugeot 306 instead.
In the case of the focus, buy a good one and you won't regret.

colm_mcm

Corollas are actually quite decent to drive and streets ahead of a 00-on Almera and there's no denying the reliability of the 02-07 model. to say a 306 (launched in 1993) is a better option is ridiculous.

-Corkie-

colm_mcm wrote: »

Corollas are actually quite decent to drive and streets ahead of a 00-on Almera and there's no denying the reliability of the 02-07 model. to say a 306 (launched in 1993) is a better option is ridiculous.

Agreed peugeots are pure junk, how many old peugeots do you see eneryday compared to corollas.
Ford focus is better than the peugeot but no great shakes either.

David09

colm_mcm wrote: »

Corollas are actually quite decent to drive and streets ahead of a 00-on Almera and there's no denying the reliability of the 02-07 model. to say a 306 (launched in 1993) is a better option is ridiculous.

Not quite. They are far more comfortable, handle much better and are a lot cheaper to buy.
If you like driving, rather than just going from a to b then don't buy a corolla or almera.
Corollas are drab, with nasty plastic interiors, steering that's so light it lacks "feel", and they are just so boringly average in every department. What's more Irish people overrate them on reliability so therefore jack up the prices.
If your budget will stretch, also consider buying a vw golf, but only the diesel models. The tdi with pd engine from 01 onward is exceptionally good. Avoid any 1.4 16 valve golfs though as they have issues with excess oil consumption and electronic problems.

philstar

one of these would be perfect for a first time buyer, have one myself super reliable and a little belter to drive.

cheap as chips up north, the VRT will be about €950

-Corkie-

philstar wrote: »

one of these would be perfect for a first time buyer, have one myself super reliable and a little belter to drive.

cheap as chips up north, the VRT will be about €950

I think they shrunk since the older model which was a good enough car.

zilog_jones

The new (2002-) Colt is a completely unrelated car - it's a supermini based on the Smart Forfour platform. The old Colt/Mirage was just a hatchback Lancer. They're probably more spacious inside than the old Colt though, which was quite cramped...

philstar

malcox wrote: »

I think they shrunk since the older model which was a good enough car.

shorter but taller than the older model, but surprisingly spacious inside esp the 5 door version > its got a sliding rear seat

David09

David09 wrote: »

What's more Irish people overrate them on reliability so therefore jack up .

Interesting facts from warranty folk.........

97 to 01 306........
http://www.reliabilityindex.co.uk/search_results.html?apc=3128339010848601

02 to 07 Corolla
http://www.reliabilityindex.co.uk/search_results.html?apc=3128339010848601

The 306s score is quite respectable considering the average age is double (ish) that of the Corolla along with the mileage.

For a more direct comparison I also had a peak at the 307 01 to 07 which appeared fairly bad at first glance
http://www.reliabilityindex.co.uk/search_results.html?apc=3128339010848601

but then one notices the high miles, presumably quite a lot of the 307s were diesel fleet cars perhaps.

Personally I'd take the Corolla

Unfortunately you will have to enter the car make and model details on that site, bummer, pity the links won't not default to a search, ah well.

colm_mcm

I just know from selling that model Corolla for 6 years that they didn't give any trouble, and on trade-ins regardless of mileage never gave us nasty surprise service or warranty bills.
It's all great fun Toyota bashing these days but I've seen it from both sides where we've had Corollas in the family and have also sold themnew and secondhand - From a reliability POV I think their reputation is justified.

Driving experiece and dash plastics are subjective - The dash mightn't be strewn with fake silver effect plastic but it's good quality stuff that doesn't break or rattle.

bazz26

I'd say you would buy something like these close to your budget:

http://www.driving.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=201007196944720
http://www.driving.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=201003196649954
http://www.driving.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=201004196708849
http://www.driving.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=201006196883406

W.Shakes-Beer

I'd recommend an Astra, 5k would get you a decent 03 or 04 model, nice car to drive, handle grand and are comfy enough. The 1.4 engine although small has a tidy 90bhp so is perky enough.

Something like this maybe?

colm_mcm

Isn't the 98 Astra a bit old-hat at this stage? I mean compare one with a Civic or Mazda3

zilog_jones

I'd say that even moreso for the Lancer - it's just a heavily facelifted 1995 model (the top of the car is nearly identical), and the interior looks cheap and dated (the fact it took so long to get here doesn't help). Anyway, the OP is looking for a hatchback

colm_mcm

Yep, the 1.3 lancer is a hateful yoke, the engine is SOHC and really struggles. That model was actually lauched in Japan in 2000 but they kept selling the old 95 model Lancer in Europe so as not to compete with the (Europe built) Carisma.
It would also have put pressure on them to release an updated Colt, itself just a revised 1991 model which was offered here until 2003. With a 12 valve SOHC engine and windey windows!


A high spec 1.6 UK model wouldn't be the worst though, they get leather and loadsa toys.

macalase

Thanks for the advice guys.

I am probably going to the get the corolla now. Looks like I'll have to get it in the UK too, but looks like some fairly decent cars over there.

Probably going to get a diesel, 2005 model, of some sort.
How about this one.

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/200949347710927/sort/priceasc/usedcars/price-to/7000/body-type/hatchback/quantity-of-doors/5/price-from/2000/maximum-age/up_to_5_years_old/model/corolla/make/toyota/page/1/radius/1500/postcode/sw1a0aa?previous=%2Fsearch%2Fused%2Fcars%2Ftoyota%2Fcorolla%2Fpostcode%2Fsw1a0aa%2Fradius%2F1500%2Fprice-to%2F7000%2Fbody-type%2Fhatchback%2Fquantity-of-doors%2F5%2Fprice-from%2F2000%2Fmaximum-age%2Fup_to_5_years_old%2Fpage%2F1%2Fsort%2Fpriceasc&logcode=p

VRT would be abot 1000, and then tax each year should be 302euro as that car has 151g/km CO2?

I am correct about the tax?
Any other input much appreciated.

-Corkie-

Tax would be over 600 euro 620 i think. why not get the petrol cheaper tax and cheaper car

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201007352673323/sort/priceasc/usedcars/price-to/7000/body-type/hatchback/quantity-of-doors/5/price-from/2000/maximum-age/up_to_5_years_old/model/corolla/make/toyota/radius/1500/page/1/postcode/sw1a0aa?previous=%2Fsearch%2Fused%2Fcars%2Ftoyota%2Fcorolla%2Fpostcode%2Fsw1a0aa%2Fradius%2F1500%2Fprice-to%2F7000%2Fbody-type%2Fhatchback%2Fquantity-of-doors%2F5%2Fprice-from%2F2000%2Fmaximum-age%2Fup_to_5_years_old%2Fpage%2F1%2Fsort%2Fpriceasc&logcode=p

Guy:Incognito

macalase wrote: »

Thanks for the advice guys.

I am probably going to the get the corolla now. Looks like I'll have to get it in the UK too, but looks like some fairly decent cars over there.

Probably going to get a diesel, 2005 model, of some sort.
How about this one.

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/200949347710927/sort/priceasc/usedcars/price-to/7000/body-type/hatchback/quantity-of-doors/5/price-from/2000/maximum-age/up_to_5_years_old/model/corolla/make/toyota/page/1/radius/1500/postcode/sw1a0aa?previous=%2Fsearch%2Fused%2Fcars%2Ftoyota%2Fcorolla%2Fpostcode%2Fsw1a0aa%2Fradius%2F1500%2Fprice-to%2F7000%2Fbody-type%2Fhatchback%2Fquantity-of-doors%2F5%2Fprice-from%2F2000%2Fmaximum-age%2Fup_to_5_years_old%2Fpage%2F1%2Fsort%2Fpriceasc&logcode=p

VRT would be abot 1000, and then tax each year should be 302euro as that car has 151g/km CO2?

I am correct about the tax?
Any other input much appreciated.

Tax will be CC based. All pre 08 cars are taxed on CC.
https://www.motortax.ie/OMT/pdf/motortax_rates_2009_en.pdf

Presumably €614, but it's €784 if the CC is over 2001.


EDIT 1995cc apparently so, it's €613 tax http://www.parkers.co.uk/cars/reviews/toyota/corolla-hatchback-2002.aspx?

colm_mcm

watch for injector or flywheel problems on the Corolla 2.0 D-4D.

That's also the high power (116PS) 2.0 which was very uncommon here, especially since the 1.4 D-4D came in in 2004.

great car to drive, good enough spec on that and safely upgradable to 130bhp

Make sure there is a service history on the car - don't buy without one.

pajero12

malcox wrote: »

Agreed peugeots are pure junk, how many old peugeots do you see eneryday compared to corollas.
Ford focus is better than the peugeot but no great shakes either.

Correction every peugeot is crap new or old

Guy:Incognito

pajero12 wrote: »

Correction every peugeot is crap new or old

My 97 Expert van that had a really hard life before I got it begs to differ. My 97 Partner van I had berore it never missed a beat either. Both are still running with arounf 350,000 miles between them.

The 1.9 D engine used in the vans also made its way into a few Corollas iirc.

colm_mcm

Stekelly wrote: »

The 1.9 D engine used in the vans also made its way into a few Corollas iirc.

We don't like to talk about that one....

David09

With the exception of certain models of fiats and renaults, all cars nowadays are reliable. Build quality and reliability has increased exponentially since the 70's and 80's and cars don't fall asunder with corrosion or fail catastrophically in clouds of steam on the roadside like they used to.
So, that said, why buy a car and pay over the odds for the benefit of it's only claimed merit which is reliability, when reliability is expected of all modern cars nowadays???
If I were seeking to replace my car I'd look towards buying a car that had inspiring dynamics such that it drove and handled well, that was comfortable to travel in and was economical to run. Such cars as focus, 306 or golf.
To take reliability into consideration I'd ensure the vehicle was in prime condition and had a detailed service history to ensure that it was correctly maintained and any critical service items such as timing belt were carried out.

Guy:Incognito

David09 wrote: »

With the exception of certain models of fiats and renaults, all cars nowadays are reliable.

In spite of neither coming bottom of any reliability lists I'm aware of

David09

Stekelly wrote: »

In spite of neither coming bottom of any reliability lists I'm aware of

Certain renault dci engines have an alarming propensity to fail catastrophically due to turbo failure in which the engine ingests its engine oil and in turn uses it as a fuel to rev flat out uncontrollably. Renaults response was that incorrect grade of engine oil was used.

In the case of the fiat, certain puntos and brava/o's have an appetite for clutches and headgaskets which can only be attribituted to downright shoddy design/ build quality.

eamon234

W.Shakes-Beer wrote: »

I'd recommend an Astra, 5k would get you a decent 03 or 04 model, nice car to drive, handle grand and are comfy enough. The 1.4 engine although small has a tidy 90bhp so is perky enough.

Something like this maybe?

The Astra's a sh1tbox notorious for blowing head gaskets after 70k and some garages won't even work on the brakes unless you sign a waiver because they have a habit of locking permanently.
Skoda Octavia's probably the best value hatch imo even the basic models have good spec and you can fit a small African village in the boot. Just stay away from the 1.4.

Guy:Incognito

David09 wrote: »

Certain renault dci engines have an alarming propensity to fail catastrophically due to turbo failure in which the engine ingests its engine oil and in turn uses it as a fuel to rev flat out uncontrollably. Renaults response was that incorrect grade of engine oil was used.

In the case of the fiat, certain puntos and brava/o's have an appetite for clutches and headgaskets which can only be attribituted to downright shoddy design/ build quality.

But yet neither came bottoms of lists, indicating that there a much worse outthere ans the list of unrelable cars is more than a couple of renault and fiat models.

Wat of BMW's well documented turbo failures for example?

David09

eamon234 wrote: »

The Astra's a sh1tbox notorious for blowing head gaskets after 70k and some garages won't even work on the brakes unless you sign a waiver because they have a habit of locking permanently.
Skoda Octavia's probably the best value hatch imo even the basic models have good spec and you can fit a small African village in the boot. Just stay away from the 1.4.

Yes, some of them have headgasket issues but the brakes thing is down to incorrect bleeding technique. If carried out incorrectly, the seals can invert in the master cylinder.

ianobrien

malcox wrote: »

A corolla would be best and if your goin uk youll get something nice with a good spec for that price. ignore the nissan they are junk.

colm_mcm wrote: »

Almeras are dirt.
Poor safety, awful gearchange, timing chain issues, horrid driving position.

The Almera isn't that bad. The problem is the image (old granny's car). If you can get past the image, you can get a bargin. I've a '05 Almera that I've put almost 110K Km on in 2 and a half years. The only problems I've had were two heater motor resistors packing up (100euro job at the main delaers) and a heater ECU packing it in as well (300euro plus vat & fitting!). Other than that, I've had no other issues, and I'm very hard on suspension/tyres (I believe in holding my speed - the speed limit, no matter what corner comes up). I've done classic Retro rallies in it (when the Vintage car sulked), driven it at 80mph down forest tracks, set out night navigation trials in it and there was never a problem. There isn't a rattle or sweak from the cabin, the gearchange is grand (you're baby finger will change gears) and it starts every morning.

With regard to the safety, I rolled an Almera up the road one day, and I walked (well, climbed out the broken window) away without a scratch.

Granted the Focus has better handling, but does the average Joe drive that hard to notice the difference in Handling? The Golf may "feel" better, but the amount of Golfs I've been in with rattles is amazing.

In case you're wondering, my other cars include a 33year ols Mk2 Escort, a Peugeot 205GTi, and I miss the Citroen AX GT I had.:(

ianobrien

ianobrien wrote: »

(I believe in holding my speed - the speed limit, no matter what corner comes up). ......................... I rolled an Almera up the road one day, and I walked (well, climbed out the broken window) away without a scratch.

:cool: