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Non Athletics fans perceptions of doping in the sport. Very annoying!

  • 20-02-2010 07:22PM
    #1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,029 ✭✭✭


    This is something which gets my blood boiling! People who dont follow the sport of Track & Field, who know nothing about it, but when it comes up in conversation they always say "ah they are all on drugs", or "ah that sport is full of drugs". This is infuriating for a number of reasons:

    1) There are drugs in all sports. The reason it appears to the general public that there are more in Athletics is due to a far superior anti-doping system to other sports (with the exception of Cycling). As a result more people are going to be caught. Its plain common sense. I guarantee you there would be as many drug cheats exposed in Football and Rugby if they had proper anti-doping systems in place. The testing in these sports is very lax. I've read stories about premiership players going years without being tested. In addition the Juventus team that won the Champions League in 1996 and the Marseilles team that won the same competition in 1993 were both doped unknown to the players. This is well documented, and in a way is not very different to what was going on in East Germany. A Milan player from their 1969 European Cup team came out recently exposing the mass doping that was going on at the club at that time. Players were being given things that they didnt know what they were taking.

    2) Athletics has suffered from its own good measures that they have in place. Because they want to ensure fair play, and because they want to keep up with the drug cheats and improve anti-doping measures, they have as a result caught more cheats, which has led to a bad impression in the press. What the sport COULD have done was turn a blind eye to it all, like what the NFL in american and the MLB did for years, and still do to a large extent and just not test there athletes. This would result in no failed tests, and therefore no scandels in the newspapers, giving the sport a better image. Track & Field is essentially getting punished in the media because of the good work that is being done to ensure fair play.

    3) Athletics is cleaner now than it has been for about 50 years. Gone are the days of state sponsored doping. Now we have drug testing which is better than any sport in the world, with the exception of cycling perhaps. Athletes could be tested 15-20 times in a year! I'd like to know how many Football, Rugby, Tennis players etc are being tested 15-20 times a year!

    4) Its utterly ridiculous that people think people are more inclined to cheat in Athletics, and less inclined to in football, as if to say that footballers are a more honest lot, and that all the dishonest people of the world congregate in Athletics, Cyling, Swimming etc. Pure nonsense. There are dishonest people everywhere, in all walks of life, and it is human nature to try take a short cut. A footballer is no less likely to cheat than an Athlete!

    Long rant. The stupid opinions of outsiders is something that sickens me to the core.


Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,612 ✭✭✭gerard65


    Agree with all you say. But putting that here, well, your preaching to the converted.;)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,584 ✭✭✭✭tunney


    04072511 wrote: »
    This is something which gets my blood boiling! People who dont follow the sport of Track & Field, who know nothing about it, but when it comes up in conversation they always say "ah they are all on drugs", or "ah that sport is full of drugs". This is infuriating for a number of reasons:

    1) There are drugs in all sports. The reason it appears to the general public that there are more in Athletics is due to a far superior anti-doping system to other sports (with the exception of Cycling). As a result more people are going to be caught. Its plain common sense. I guarantee you there would be as many drug cheats exposed in Football and Rugby if they had proper anti-doping systems in place. The testing in these sports is very lax. I've read stories about premiership players going years without being tested. In addition the Juventus team that won the Champions League in 1996 and the Marseilles team that won the same competition in 1993 were both doped unknown to the players. This is well documented, and in a way is not very different to what was going on in East Germany. A Milan player from their 1969 European Cup team came out recently exposing the mass doping that was going on at the club at that time. Players were being given things that they didnt know what they were taking.

    2) Athletics has suffered from its own good measures that they have in place. Because they want to ensure fair play, and because they want to keep up with the drug cheats and improve anti-doping measures, they have as a result caught more cheats, which has led to a bad impression in the press. What the sport COULD have done was turn a blind eye to it all, like what the NFL in american and the MLB did for years, and still do to a large extent and just not test there athletes. This would result in no failed tests, and therefore no scandels in the newspapers, giving the sport a better image. Track & Field is essentially getting punished in the media because of the good work that is being done to ensure fair play.

    3) Athletics is cleaner now than it has been for about 50 years. Gone are the days of state sponsored doping. Now we have drug testing which is better than any sport in the world, with the exception of cycling perhaps. Athletes could be tested 15-20 times in a year! I'd like to know how many Football, Rugby, Tennis players etc are being tested 15-20 times a year!

    4) Its utterly ridiculous that people think people are more inclined to cheat in Athletics, and less inclined to in football, as if to say that footballers are a more honest lot, and that all the dishonest people of the world congregate in Athletics, Cyling, Swimming etc. Pure nonsense. There are dishonest people everywhere, in all walks of life, and it is human nature to try take a short cut. A footballer is no less likely to cheat than an Athlete!

    Long rant. The stupid opinions of outsiders is something that sickens me to the core.

    Throwing all this out there without supporting documentation or links is just as bad to be honest.

    Documentation supporting claims of elite soccer being doped without their knowledge?
    Documentation supporting claims that athletics is cleaner than 50 years ago?

    I do agree that fields sports are dirty I certainly don't agree that ahletics is any cleaner than ever.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,029 ✭✭✭Pisco Sour


    tunney wrote: »
    Throwing all this out there without supporting documentation or links is just as bad to be honest.

    Documentation supporting claims of elite soccer being doped without their knowledge?

    http://www.ergogenics.org/voetbal3.html

    http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/football/article396203.ece

    http://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/features/acmilandrugs.html
    tunney wrote: »

    Documentation supporting claims that athletics is cleaner than 50 years ago?

    I do agree that fields sports are dirty I certainly don't agree that ahletics is any cleaner than ever.

    One only has to look at the fact that most of the women's world records are from the 1980's when state sponsored doping was in existance. The 400m WR is 47:60. Now, 25 years on we have Olympic Gold Medals won with times of 49:60. A whole 2 seconds slower. This is the case for many events. Most WR's on the women's side have remained untouched for years.

    Happy now?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,584 ✭✭✭✭tunney


    04072511 wrote: »
    http://www.ergogenics.org/voetbal3.html

    http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/football/article396203.ece

    http://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/features/acmilandrugs.html



    One only has to look at the fact that most of the women's world records are from the 1980's when state sponsored doping was in existance. The 400m WR is 47:60. Now, 25 years on we have Olympic Gold Medals won with times of 49:60. A whole 2 seconds slower. This is the case for many events. Most WR's on the women's side have remained untouched for years.

    Happy now?

    Regarding the soccer - yes.
    Regarding the state of athletes compared to 50 years ago - no. For every WR you say hasn't fallen there are probably two that have.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,029 ✭✭✭Pisco Sour


    tunney wrote: »
    Regarding the soccer - yes.
    Regarding the state of athletes compared to 50 years ago - no. For every WR you say hasn't fallen there are probably two that have.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/blog/2009/aug/16/world-athletics-championships-records

    Have a read of this


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,584 ✭✭✭✭tunney


    04072511 wrote: »

    That covers female athletes.
    Male athletes of any discipline?

    Your huge argument is based on a single sex, and actually given the intersex issues, not all the womens records may be held by women.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,029 ✭✭✭Pisco Sour


    tunney wrote: »
    That covers female athletes.
    Male athletes of any discipline?

    Your huge argument is based on a single sex, and actually given the intersex issues, not all the womens records may be held by women.

    Doping has a greater effect on women than it does on men. So the women's events can be better used as a measure of how much doping has decreased since the 1980's. If doping was as much present in the sport now as it was in the 1980's, then why can nobody get within an asses roar of the WR's?

    With regards Men, theres only so much doping can do for them. The effects arent as large, therefore the gains athletes in the 80's would have made would not be anywhere near as outrageous. As a result the WR's set in the 80's would be a lot easier to break, and combined with natural progression has led to nearly all of these records being broken.

    IMO the women's events highlight more so the huge amounts of doping that existed in the 1980's, thats why I'm basing my argument around women.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,336 ✭✭✭EC1000


    I'm afraid you can throw all the stats out there that you can find but I think you'll find that people's perceptions are based on what they see and hear. This week you could have sat down and watched Dwain Chambers competing in a warm up for the world indoors. He is a proven cheat. This is what people base their perceptions on. As long as there are people taking part who are known cheats, there will be many who will turn away.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,029 ✭✭✭Pisco Sour


    EC1000 wrote: »
    I'm afraid you can throw all the stats out there that you can find but I think you'll find that people's perceptions are based on what they see and hear. This week you could have sat down and watched Dwain Chambers competing in a warm up for the world indoors. He is a proven cheat. This is what people base their perceptions on. As long as there are people taking part who are known cheats, there will be many who will turn away.

    Its stupid though. If there was no drug testing and the IAAF took a blind eye to doping in the sport, then Chambers would never have been caught, and consequently more people would tune in. This is ridiculous but is what happens. Look at the NFL in america. The league is full of drugs but nothing is done about it as the NFL dont want big scandels to ruin their product!

    The IAAF deserve praise for their good work in trying to rid the sport of cheats, but instead the sport gets nothing only a slating in the press. Doesnt seem fair.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,336 ✭✭✭EC1000


    04072511 wrote: »
    Its stupid though. If there was no drug testing and the IAAF took a blind eye to doping in the sport, then Chambers would never have been caught, and consequently more people would tune in. This is ridiculous but is what happens. Look at the NFL in america. The league is full of drugs but nothing is done about it as the NFL dont want big scandels to ruin their product!

    The IAAF deserve praise for their good work in trying to rid the sport of cheats, but instead the sport gets nothing only a slating in the press. Doesnt seem fair.

    In my opinion, much of the harm is down to lack of punishment. Ben Johnson caused the biggest drugs scandal ever to hit the sport and was allowed back to cheat again (and again I think....). Its still happening, with chambers et al. Cycling is another sport which is struggling to shed a negative image and again its down to the sport being full of convicted cheats - David Millar etc. etc. Until one can tune in to a big event and at least be assured that none of the competitors have ever tested positive then you might as well be rolling that stone up the mountain.....


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,029 ✭✭✭Pisco Sour


    EC1000 wrote: »
    In my opinion, much of the harm is down to lack of punishment. Ben Johnson caused the biggest drugs scandal ever to hit the sport and was allowed back to cheat again (and again I think....). Its still happening, with chambers et al. Cycling is another sport which is struggling to shed a negative image and again its down to the sport being full of convicted cheats - David Millar etc. etc. Until one can tune in to a big event and at least be assured that none of the competitors have ever tested positive then you might as well be rolling that stone up the mountain.....

    You do realise though that sports such as football and rugby are full of cheats aswell, but the difference is that little is being done to try expose these cheats, therefore theres less people failing drugs tests, therefore these sports dont suffer from such negative publicity.

    Its a bit of a conflict of interests. Does the sport want to either 1) ensure fair play, or 2) sell the "product" and protect its image. Many sports chose the latter. Fair play to Athletics for going with the former, a more difficult deciision.


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