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Sports Funding for 2010

Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,912 ✭✭✭thirtyfoot


    04072511 wrote: »
    Found this linked to an article on the RTE Website

    http://www.irishsportscouncil.ie/News_Events/Latest_News/2010_Archive/H-P_Carding_2010.pdf

    Why on earth is Paul Hession only on 20k? Thats madness!!

    On the face of if it may seem like madness but to be contracted you need to be a medalist at a Global champs. We have one who fits the bill yet we got 3 contracted.

    http://www.athleticsireland.ie/content/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/carding-criteria-2010.pdf


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,029 ✭✭✭Pisco Sour


    Thats outrageous criteria! Having to be in the top 3 in the world to earn 40k! Journeymen golfers would earn that in one average run of the mill european tour event. Shane Lowry earned around 200k last year, and achieved nothing! (his Irish Open win earned him 0 as he was an amateur when he won that).

    Hession should be on 40k aswell! He's consistently been in the top 10-12 in the world over the last 3 years in major championships, in an event that he is genetically at a massive disadvantage to the jamaicans and african americans! 20k grant is pathetic! Thats almost minimun wage! How can somebody be expected to live off that when training full time?!

    Rant over!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,912 ✭✭✭thirtyfoot


    Minority sport isn't probably given enough support by the government. Even more so now with so many cuts, we have done well to essentially maintain the level of financial support. After boxing, we are probably the best supported which is because we are the next most successfull. More support should be provided. Next time there is an election, mention it to the politicians who come to your door. Its great craic to see the blank look on their face when you say "I'll give you me vote if you can tell me how you would help the minority sports in Ireland".

    Americans don't get grants, they must survive on their endorsements and earnings once they leave college.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 384 ✭✭ss43


    04072511 wrote: »
    Thats outrageous criteria! Having to be in the top 3 in the world to earn 40k! Journeymen golfers would earn that in one average run of the mill european tour event. Shane Lowry earned around 200k last year, and achieved nothing! (his Irish Open win earned him 0 as he was an amateur when he won that).

    Hession should be on 40k aswell! He's consistently been in the top 10-12 in the world over the last 3 years in major championships, in an event that he is genetically at a massive disadvantage to the jamaicans and african americans! 20k grant is pathetic! Thats almost minimun wage! How can somebody be expected to live off that when training full time?!

    Rant over!

    Lowry's earnings are due to being in a more profitable sport though aren't they. He's not getting 200k in grant money. If golf is better marketed or more appealing to sponsors, that shouldn't increase government funding in other sports.

    If Hession should be on 40k (which would be great for him and athletics), where should the money come from? There is a limited supply of money. I think it could as easily be asked why do they get money to do their hobby. What is Hession or any of the others giving the state in return for the grant money. Unfortunately, I don't think they are inspiring another generation to get out running so where does the state benefit from this?

    It'd be great if all our athletes got loads of money but the money has to come from somewhere and the escapades of our athletes don't really impact on the vast majority of the population. The three most likely to medal on a global stage (and thus capture the imagination of the country) are on decent money which they should be able to supplement nicely with sponsorship and prize money.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,912 ✭✭✭thirtyfoot


    ss43 wrote: »
    If Hession should be on 40k (which would be great for him and athletics), where should the money come from? There is a limited supply of money. I think it could as easily be asked why do they get money to do their hobby. What is Hession or any of the others giving the state in return for the grant money. Unfortunately, I don't think they are inspiring another generation to get out running so where does the state benefit from this?

    Lets say Hession really didn't bother his arse and went on the dole. Lets say he went on the dole from when he left school (at maybe 16) and didn't get a job. He would have cost the taxpayer as much now as if he had decided to become a full-time athlete.

    Now, which Paul Hession has added more to Ireland and its society. The full-time athlete who is mixing it with the likes of Bolt or the Paul Hession who lives at home, smokes a few joints, drinks a few tins and gets young ones knocked up and nicks the odd car.

    I'd choose the full-time athlete one. I'd also say that Paul Hession would inspire more people to make a decent shot of their life.

    Chances are as well, when the likes of Hession retires the fact that he is so intelligent (like so many of our athletes) he will very likely get a pretty decent 'real' job and payback all of the money he got from the state through the taxman.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,336 ✭✭✭EC1000


    04072511 wrote: »
    Thats outrageous criteria! Having to be in the top 3 in the world to earn 40k! Journeymen golfers would earn that in one average run of the mill european tour event. Shane Lowry earned around 200k last year, and achieved nothing! (his Irish Open win earned him 0 as he was an amateur when he won that).

    Whilst I agree that it would be great to see Hession on bigger money, you're comparing apples and oranges I'm afraid. You simply cannot equate grant money and prize money. BTW, I dont think Lowry would agree that he achieved nothing last year, he broke the world's top 100 after all!!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 384 ✭✭ss43


    Tingle wrote: »
    Lets say Hession really didn't bother his arse and went on the dole. Lets say he went on the dole from when he left school (at maybe 16) and didn't get a job. He would have cost the taxpayer as much now as if he had decided to become a full-time athlete.

    Now, which Paul Hession has added more to Ireland and its society. The full-time athlete who is mixing it with the likes of Bolt or the Paul Hession who lives at home, smokes a few joints, drinks a few tins and gets young ones knocked up and nicks the odd car.

    I'd choose the full-time athlete one. I'd also say that Paul Hession would inspire more people to make a decent shot of their life.

    Chances are as well, when the likes of Hession retires the fact that he is so intelligent (like so many of our athletes) he will very likely get a pretty decent 'real' job and payback all of the money he got from the state through the taxman.

    Hession the athlete should inspire lots of people but in reality how many people are going to be become athletes and have better lives as a result of his running? I could be wrong, but I don't think his achievements thus far are getting many people into the sport.

    The main reason I see for government funding elite performers is that they can inspire kids to get into the sport and lead more active, healthier lives. With athletics as (un)popular as it is and the level of our athletes in the more popular events I don't think there's a great return on investment for the state (obviously a better one than from those who take advantage of the system and draw dole all their life).

    I'd like to see athletes get more money but it has to come from somewhere and there are probably more important things to spend the money on than supporting an athlete who might scrape into a world championships final.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,912 ✭✭✭thirtyfoot


    ss43 wrote: »
    Hession the athlete should inspire lots of people but in reality how many people are going to be become athletes and have better lives as a result of his running?

    I'd say after O' Rourke and Gillick he is the next most inspirational athlete we have for our kids - on a par with Loughnane.

    ss43 wrote: »
    The main reason I see for government funding elite performers is that they can inspire kids to get into the sport and lead more active, healthier lives.

    I don't see increasing participation as the key driver for elite funding. Reward for excellence perhaps. There are other things that can be done to improve participation but I think seeing an Irish sprinter in the Olympic semi-final with the likes of Bolt (and hopefully final) will inspire many athletes. Even more so that he is a sprinter as it is more appealing to young kids. It was never before because we were so sh*t at it but now when kids see an Irish person mixing with the top dogs in the sprints they believe they can be there too. So increased participation could be a by product of elite funding but I don't see it as the main reason for it.
    ss43 wrote: »
    I'd like to see athletes get more money but it has to come from somewhere and there are probably more important things to spend the money on than supporting an athlete who might scrape into a world championships final.

    I'd take scraping into a world championship final anyday!

    Investment in sport to me is very, very important. Its a prevention instead of cure as regards much of the ills people give out about in Ireland today. Most kids I know in athletics in Ireland in their 20's are very much on the straight and narrow, doing well in college/work etc, very balanced people. I think its too much of a coincidence that the majority of athletes are like that. Is it something about the sport that does that to them? Could be. If someone stays in sport, in most cases they will stay out of trouble. Its short sighted to see sport as a luxury to be funded a bit here and a bit there, in my opinion.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,029 ✭✭✭Pisco Sour


    An example: Australia

    A country with massive levels of government funding for sport. As a result the country punches well above its weight on the world level in all sports.

    The consequence of this is a country which is absolutely sports mad. Wherever you go you see people running, mountain biking, playing vollyball etc etc. Granted having a good climate helps this, but in my opinion the government's heavy sports funding programme has helped create a sporting obsession in Australia, which has led to huge participation levels, and a healthier way of living.

    You dont see this in Ireland. We love watching our sport, but we arent too keen on doing it ourselves. Perhaps greater sports funding can create a sporting culture more like Australia!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,762 ✭✭✭✭ecoli


    Tingle wrote: »
    I'd say after O' Rourke and Gillick he is the next most inspirational athlete we have for our kids - on a par with Loughnane.




    I don't see increasing participation as the key driver for elite funding. Reward for excellence perhaps. There are other things that can be done to improve participation but I think seeing an Irish sprinter in the Olympic semi-final with the likes of Bolt (and hopefully final) will inspire many athletes. Even more so that he is a sprinter as it is more appealing to young kids. It was never before because we were so sh*t at it but now when kids see an Irish person mixing with the top dogs in the sprints they believe they can be there too. So increased participation could be a by product of elite funding but I don't see it as the main reason for it.



    I'd take scraping into a world championship final anyday!

    Investment in sport to me is very, very important. Its a prevention instead of cure as regards much of the ills people give out about in Ireland today. Most kids I know in athletics in Ireland in their 20's are very much on the straight and narrow, doing well in college/work etc, very balanced people. I think its too much of a coincidence that the majority of athletes are like that. Is it something about the sport that does that to them? Could be. If someone stays in sport, in most cases they will stay out of trouble. Its short sighted to see sport as a luxury to be funded a bit here and a bit there, in my opinion.

    i think that this is a valid comment and is something which needs to be exploited. Sports Funding needs to be viewed as an investment by the government rather than a hand out for recreational purposes.

    Some of the advantages which need to be highlighted in the poditives of sport from a political perspective include:

    Health
    With obesity being a major concern and health being in the political spot light an increase in physical activity can be seen in the long run to reduce the demand on the health system.

    "There must be governmental will if any progress is to be made. The prospect of 300,000 Irish children becoming obese and the medical time-bomb that constitutes, should be the only motivation we need as a society."
    http://www.finegael.ie/news/index.cfm/type/details/nkey/36833

    As said before increase in physical activity significantly reduces Anti social behaviour including vandalism under age smoking and drinking and drug use.

    The study reveals statistics on drug use in Ireland. One in two (51%) 18 – 29 year olds have tried illegal drugs in the past, according to ID. Of those who have tried drugs in the past, 9 out of 10 have tried cannabis with four out of ten having tried cocaine or ecstasy. Just over four in ten have taken illegal drugs in the past 6 months. Illegal drugs are becoming increasingly easy to buy for this age group, which favours teenage drug use. One in three 18 – 29 year olds surveyed had a contact in their mobile phone who they felt confident they could buy drugs from. The Irish drug epidemic is not only being experienced by young adults. Our latest survey of our youth panel reveals that one in three 16 – 17 year olds have experimented with drugs (mainly cannabis).

    The programme also focused on young smokers and unveils the following smoking statistics: one third of 18 – 29 year olds smoke. One third of smokers have tried unsuccessfully to give up smoking in the past. The smoking ban in Ireland has helped somewhat as one in three smokers say that they are now smoking less since its implementation.

    Teenage drinking statistics show that underage drinking is common in Ireland as one in four 16 – 17 year olds claim to drink alcohol at least once a week. The locations for underage drinking for this age group tend to be at a friend’s house (31%), at home (30%) or outdoors (22%). Despite the recession, the majority of 18 – 29 year olds drink at least once a week, though some probably wish they didn’t as one in four claim to have called someone they shouldn’t have (e.g. an ex) while drunk.

    Despite some unhealthy lifestyle habits, two thirds of 18 – 29 year olds perceive themselves to live a healthy lifestyle, with just over 40% getting regular exercise. This may be Ireland’s most body conscious generation according to ID, as six in ten males and seven in ten females are actively trying to manage their weight. Twenty nine per cent of those surveyed felt that obesity is the biggest health risk facing young Irish people (one per cent more than cancer).



    http://www.irishpressreleases.ie/2009/03/27/youth-id-reveal-statistics-on-irish-youth-drug-use-drinking-and-smoking-habits/

    Vandalism and other activities also provide a major strain on taxpayers money so from an economical point of view for every million invested at least 2 million is saved.

    At the end of the day money talks in terms of political standpoint and we need to highlight investment in sports funding as good business acumin rather than a donation


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 384 ✭✭ss43


    Tingle wrote: »
    I'd say after O' Rourke and Gillick he is the next most inspirational athlete we have for our kids - on a par with Loughnane.

    Unfortunately, that doesn't seem to be very inspirational for a lot of kids
    I don't see increasing participation as the key driver for elite funding. Reward for excellence perhaps. There are other things that can be done to improve participation but I think seeing an Irish sprinter in the Olympic semi-final with the likes of Bolt (and hopefully final) will inspire many athletes. Even more so that he is a sprinter as it is more appealing to young kids. It was never before because we were so sh*t at it but now when kids see an Irish person mixing with the top dogs in the sprints they believe they can be there too. So increased participation could be a by product of elite funding but I don't see it as the main reason for it.

    I don't think Olympic semi-final cuts it with inspiring kids. It's impressive to people who know athletics, but they're already involved.
    Investment in sport to me is very, very important. Its a prevention instead of cure as regards much of the ills people give out about in Ireland today. Most kids I know in athletics in Ireland in their 20's are very much on the straight and narrow, doing well in college/work etc, very balanced people. I think its too much of a coincidence that the majority of athletes are like that. Is it something about the sport that does that to them? Could be. If someone stays in sport, in most cases they will stay out of trouble. Its short sighted to see sport as a luxury to be funded a bit here and a bit there, in my opinion.

    All fair points but how many people stay in the sport because of elite level funding?
    04072511 wrote: »
    An example: Australia

    A country with massive levels of government funding for sport. As a result the country punches well above its weight on the world level in all sports.

    The consequence of this is a country which is absolutely sports mad. Wherever you go you see people running, mountain biking, playing vollyball etc etc. Granted having a good climate helps this, but in my opinion the government's heavy sports funding programme has helped create a sporting obsession in Australia, which has led to huge participation levels, and a healthier way of living.

    You dont see this in Ireland. We love watching our sport, but we arent too keen on doing it ourselves. Perhaps greater sports funding can create a sporting culture more like Australia!

    Greater sports funding - yes. Not necessarily, funding for elites that aren't quite at the top
    ecoli wrote: »
    i think that this is a valid comment and is something which needs to be exploited. Sports Funding needs to be viewed as an investment by the government rather than a hand out for recreational purposes.

    Some of the advantages which need to be highlighted in the poditives of sport from a political perspective include:

    Health
    With obesity being a major concern and health being in the political spot light an increase in physical activity can be seen in the long run to reduce the demand on the health system.

    "There must be governmental will if any progress is to be made. The prospect of 300,000 Irish children becoming obese and the medical time-bomb that constitutes, should be the only motivation we need as a society."
    http://www.finegael.ie/news/index.cfm/type/details/nkey/36833

    As said before increase in physical activity significantly reduces Anti social behaviour including vandalism under age smoking and drinking and drug use.

    The study reveals statistics on drug use in Ireland. One in two (51%) 18 – 29 year olds have tried illegal drugs in the past, according to ID. Of those who have tried drugs in the past, 9 out of 10 have tried cannabis with four out of ten having tried cocaine or ecstasy. Just over four in ten have taken illegal drugs in the past 6 months. Illegal drugs are becoming increasingly easy to buy for this age group, which favours teenage drug use. One in three 18 – 29 year olds surveyed had a contact in their mobile phone who they felt confident they could buy drugs from. The Irish drug epidemic is not only being experienced by young adults. Our latest survey of our youth panel reveals that one in three 16 – 17 year olds have experimented with drugs (mainly cannabis).

    The programme also focused on young smokers and unveils the following smoking statistics: one third of 18 – 29 year olds smoke. One third of smokers have tried unsuccessfully to give up smoking in the past. The smoking ban in Ireland has helped somewhat as one in three smokers say that they are now smoking less since its implementation.

    Teenage drinking statistics show that underage drinking is common in Ireland as one in four 16 – 17 year olds claim to drink alcohol at least once a week. The locations for underage drinking for this age group tend to be at a friend’s house (31%), at home (30%) or outdoors (22%). Despite the recession, the majority of 18 – 29 year olds drink at least once a week, though some probably wish they didn’t as one in four claim to have called someone they shouldn’t have (e.g. an ex) while drunk.

    Despite some unhealthy lifestyle habits, two thirds of 18 – 29 year olds perceive themselves to live a healthy lifestyle, with just over 40% getting regular exercise. This may be Ireland’s most body conscious generation according to ID, as six in ten males and seven in ten females are actively trying to manage their weight. Twenty nine per cent of those surveyed felt that obesity is the biggest health risk facing young Irish people (one per cent more than cancer).



    http://www.irishpressreleases.ie/2009/03/27/youth-id-reveal-statistics-on-irish-youth-drug-use-drinking-and-smoking-habits/

    Vandalism and other activities also provide a major strain on taxpayers money so from an economical point of view for every million invested at least 2 million is saved.

    At the end of the day money talks in terms of political standpoint and we need to highlight investment in sports funding as good business acumin rather than a donation

    Getting people involved in sport will help in this regard. How will giving Paul Hession an extra few grand? Unless that helps him get a massive performance or gets him involved in a campaign that convinces loads of kids to do athletics it's not going to have any of those effects. And even if it did get them involved, it won't have the desired effects unless the structures are there to keep them.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,029 ✭✭✭Pisco Sour


    You could say that by not giving Paul Hession, a world class sprinter the full 40k funding it is sending a negative message out to other up and coming sportspeople in Ireland. It tells them that no matter how hard they try, and how good they get, they will still not be fully supported by the Irish Government. This could be quite demotivating, and stop people getting involved in sport.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,762 ✭✭✭✭ecoli


    ss43 wrote: »
    Unfortunately, that doesn't seem to be very inspirational for a lot of kids



    I don't think Olympic semi-final cuts it with inspiring kids. It's impressive to people who know athletics, but they're already involved.



    All fair points but how many people stay in the sport because of elite level funding?



    Greater sports funding - yes. Not necessarily, funding for elites that aren't quite at the top



    Getting people involved in sport will help in this regard. How will giving Paul Hession an extra few grand? Unless that helps him get a massive performance or gets him involved in a campaign that convinces loads of kids to do athletics it's not going to have any of those effects. And even if it did get them involved, it won't have the desired effects unless the structures are there to keep them.

    By supporting our top athletes to top performances to help inspire the next generation. Like it or not even kids are consumed by materialism. How many kids are gonne say to themselves "okay i am willing to live off just above minimum wage at the height of my sporting career". Kids turn to soccer however selfish it may be because they see it as a somewhere they can make enough to live after retirement. Look at Olive Loughnane 2nd in the world and gets 40k how long is that gonna last her after retirement when this grant is gone she has nothing to fall back on. In this sense Athletics is not a viable pursuit for the majority as there is no security which is why we lose so many. Larger grants make it more viable


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