Names Of Top 10 Borrowers In First Wave Of Nama transfers revealed

jmayo

ANGLO IRISH Bank will transfer close to €10 billion in loans into the National Asset Management Agency (Nama), accounting for the largest amount owed by the top 10 developers moving to the agency in the coming weeks.

The Irish Times has established the identities of the top borrowers being moved in the first wave of transfers to the State agency.

They are developers
Liam Carroll; Bernard McNamara; Sean Mulryan of Ballymore; financier Derek Quinlan; Paddy McKillen, owner of the Jervis Street Shopping Centre;
Treasury Holdings, which is owned by Johnny Ronan and Richard Barrett;
Cork developer Michael O’Flynn; Joe O’Reilly, the developer behind the Dundrum Shopping Centre in Dublin; Dublin builder Gerry Gannon, co-owner of the K Club golf resort in Co Kildare; and Galway businessman Gerry Barrett, owner of Ashford Castle in Co Mayo and G Hotel in Galway.

More than €16 billion in loans linked to the top 10 are being moved to Nama out of a total of €80 billion being transferred.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2010/0218/1224264715434.html

Well folks here it is, these are first of the developers who are leaving toxic
debts to the taxpayers to clean up.
Here are the mug shots of the ones who we can thank.



Next time you see Johnny Ronan passing in his chauffeur driven Maybach be sure to wave and let him know that we are taking care of his debts.

Lets look through the list and do a bit of cross matching.

AFAIK the following are definite ff supporters:
Bernard McNamara; Sean Mulryan, Johnny Ronan, Paddy McKillen, Michael O’Flynn, Gerry Gannon, Joe O’Reilly.

Cross match with Anglo Golden 10 circle:
Paddy McKillen, Gerry Gannon, Joe O’Reilly

What is all the more galling is one of these shysters, Derek Quinlan (mr Irish Glass bottle plant as well), has run off to Switzerland so that he no longer contributes tax to the country.
How much of a spit in the face of Irish taxpayers is that ?

changes

Its mindboggling and its obscene.

But what amazes me is how peoples eyes glaze over when its mentioned.
Its almost as if people can't quite grasp it and therefore just ignore it.

To think that one of them decides to live in switzerland to ease his tax burden but is happy to leave his mess here for us to clean up.

Maddening.

fontanalis

Thanks for the sh!te lads!

donkey balls

most of the above have there fingers in many pies and still operate/own companies that are still making profits,what happens to the profits they make do they pay of the debts they owe?.:rolleyes:

and by the way one of the above owns a big sports store franchise throughout ireland.

T-Square

We should be taking ever thing they have in their possession.

Take the cars, especially Johnny Ronan's Maybach, take their wifes jewelery, take their clothes, take the houses they live in, take it all.

MysticalRain

Next time you see Johnny Ronan passing in his chauffeur driven Maybach be sure to wave and let him know that we are taking care of his debts.

and the next time he buys Glenda a new Range Rover.

Liam Byrne

donkey balls wrote: »

....and by the way one of the above owns a big sports store franchise throughout ireland.

Is this common knowledge ? If so, can we say it here so that we can [choose personally whether or not to] boycott it ?

Welease

Probably going to be an unpopular point of view... but why should we go after all their personal belongings?

Are they not entitled to the same protection that limited companies afford other owners? (and yes I know some of this is not so clear with some personal guarantee's that were given to the banks... ).

Would people be so quick to call for the seizing of personal assets of the owners of every business in Ireland that fails?.. that would be a lot of people being made homeless sometimes through little fault of their own given the current credit crunch.

Imagine the negative impact to entrepreneurship in this country if everyone who set up a business could be held liable for every asset they owned...

Liam Byrne

Welease wrote: »

Would people be so quick to call for the seizing of personal assets of the owners of every business in Ireland that fails?.. that would be a lot of people being made homeless sometimes through little fault of their own given the current credit crunch.

No, but FF aren't bailing out "every business in Ireland" with our money.

And the "little fault of their own" doesn't apply to those who operated in this manner.

Smaller businesses and bad luck, then maybe you have a point; out and out greed combined with a lack of ethics and a Galway tent inspired bailout, no chance!

Take 'em for everything they have.

Welease

Liam Byrne wrote: »

No, but FF aren't bailing out "every business in Ireland" with our money.

And the "little fault of their own" doesn't apply to those who operated in this manner.

Smaller businesses and bad luck, then maybe you have a point; out and out greed combined with a lack of ethics and a Galway tent inspired bailout, no chance!

Take 'em for everything they have.

My impression was we were bailing out the banks.. not the developers.. Will anyone on the list above receive money from the government or NAMA?

ei.sdraob

NAMA is a crime

10 people run up debts of 16billion

and it all gets dumped on the taxpayers

sick :mad:

SLUSK

Private profits and socialized losses. That is what modern capitalism has been reduced to. It is sickening. Ordinary people getting hit with higher taxes and reduced social services while the people who bankrupted the nation gets to keep their property.

These developers should be asked to repay these debts and if they can't they should be thrown in jail.

The_Thing

Dyin's too good for 'em.

ei.sdraob

SLUSK wrote: »

Private profits and socialized losses. That is what modern capitalism has been reduced to. It is sickening. Ordinary people getting hit with higher taxes and reduced social services while the people who bankrupted the nation gets to keep their property.

These developers should be asked to repay these debts and if they can't they should be thrown in jail.

this is not capitalism

its bastardized socialism at its worst

in a proper capitalist system these people and their companies would go under and become bankrupt, in their failure a lesson is taught to whoever gave them money that lending carries risk, what was done with NAMA and bailouts has created a huge moral hazard, and all of this will be repeated again on a larger scale in a few years

where has that money gone? well one of them owns that ****hole of a G hotel here in Galway, a giant white elephant that symbolizes the mis-allocation and waste of capital

SLUSK

ei.sdraob wrote: »

this is not capitalism

its bastardized socialism at its worst

in a proper capitalist system these people and their companies would go under and become bankrupt, in their failure a lesson is taught to whoever gave them money that lending carries risk, what was done with NAMA and bailouts has created a huge moral hazard, and all of this will be repeated again on a larger scale in a few years

where has that money gone? well one of them owns that ****hole of a G hotel here in Galway, a giant white elephant that symbolizes the mis-allocation and waste of capital

The economists of today do not believe in proper capitalism. They much more prefer crony capitalism.

stepbar

So Paddy Kelly's not in the top ten? or Bernard McNamara's buddies Jerry O'Reilly and David Courtney? Well holy god if that's the case :eek:

And remember lads, every last one of these guys are multibanked.

SkepticOne

Welease wrote: »

My impression was we were bailing out the banks.. not the developers.. Will anyone on the list above receive money from the government or NAMA?

Most bailouts aren't free money of the sort that the banks are getting. Most bailouts are in the form of credit on better terms than the market would normally provide. It is this second more common form that the developers will be enjoying. A case in point would be Liam Carroll where creditors were closing in on him before NAMA. He narrowly made it in and so you won't be hearing about him being shut down for a while. There were reportedly celebrations among developers when the NAMA legislation was passed.

None of the measures taken by the government actually solve anything. What they do is pass the problem down the line for a few years so that it can be dealt with by someone else.

With NAMA issues that would have led to short term problems in the banks have been transformed into long term problems for the country as a whole. We've no idea of how those are going to be solved but that is a problem for the next government.

dunsandin

I would imagine that taking a clear-windscreen view of our political system would help here. The current system of governance that pertains in Ireland has absolutely no eye on the future what so ever. To be elected to high office, or even to reach the higher echelons of the civil service, big business or commerce, is like winning the lottery. If you are onto a good thing, you do your best to stay there-in the saddle. All of the opinions and outrage assume one thing- that our leadership have a moral compass, and are not simply interested in keeping hold of power and therefore money. They do not give a toss about future generations, the ordinary people, nor even what public opinion believes. Like the "Catholic Church PLc", they are a system, and that system enriches those within, and hang everyone else.
It is not a question of right or wrong, just a question of manipulating public perception to suit their ends. Once a businessman passes a certain size, the normal rules cease to apply.(rules are for the little people) So, if they need big loans written off - the system obliges, if they need legislation altered, tax rules re-written, it is done. Big business means big money, and big money makes the rules, and the more corrupt a country is, the easier the rules are melded and bent for them. You will not see too many skinny dictators, while their people starve. The system in dictatorships is just less well dressed up than it is here in Ireland, Mugabi doesn't have to pretend nice, cos he will be re-elected regardless. Our lot have to a least pretend nice, and smile for the cameras, but at the end of the day, big money rules, and the people pay for their lifestyles.

Kess73

donkey balls wrote: »

most of the above have there fingers in many pies and still operate/own companies that are still making profits,what happens to the profits they make do they pay of the debts they owe?.:rolleyes:

and by the way one of the above owns a big sports store franchise throughout ireland.

I was under the impression that he was not the sole owner, and owned it with other family members.

dunsandin

Kess73 wrote: »

I was under the impression that he was not the sole owner, and owned it with other family members.

The Soprano family?

stepbar

Kess73 wrote: »

I was under the impression that he was not the sole owner, and owned it with other family members.

McNamara sold out of Superquinn and AFAIK done the same with Lifestyle Sports.

ei.sdraob

SLUSK wrote: »

The economists of today do not believe in proper capitalism. They much more prefer crony capitalism.

what economists exactly? the ones who work for banks and financial companies??

plenty of independent economists and academic economists here in Ireland and abroad (including a Nobel prize winner) have told us and written letters that NAMA is a terrible idea

PeakOutput

jmayo wrote: »

Well folks here it is, these are first of the developers who are leaving toxic
debts to the taxpayers to clean up.
Here are the mug shots of the ones who we can thank.

you dont understand how nama works at all do you?

ei.sdraob

PeakOutput wrote: »

you dont understand how nama works at all do you?

how does it work?

doc_17

Nobody knows how it works, Maybe that's the idea. It's looking like a worse and worse idea by the day.

amjon.

jmayo wrote: »

What is all the more galling is one of these shysters, Derek Quinlan (mr Irish Glass bottle plant as well), has run off to Switzerland so that he no longer contributes tax to the country.

What a genius! Hilarious!

PeakOutput

ei.sdraob wrote: »

how does it work?

goverment gives money to bank bank gives goverment the debt. goverment gets repayments off people who are in debt and chases them threw the normal legal routes if they cant pay it all back, goverment then owns the assets of anyone who couldnt repay and gets to use them / sell them if and when the market recovers

pretty close? i think so and therefore saying we are getting lumped with developers debt and they are getting away scot free is not an accurate representation of how it works

Kess73

stepbar wrote: »

McNamara sold out of Superquinn and AFAIK done the same with Lifestyle Sports.

Was not talking about him as the Stafford family own Lifestyle sports.

ei.sdraob

PeakOutput wrote: »

goverment gives money to bank bank gives goverment the debt. goverment gets repayments off people who are in debt and chases them threw the normal legal routes if they cant pay it all back, goverment then owns the assets of anyone who couldnt repay and gets to use them / sell them if and when the market recovers

1. there lies one huge problem

these assets are not worth a fraction of what they used to, and never will be

these are ghost estates, anglo irish building and the likes of that carpark in d4...

2. problem #2 a chunk of NAMA has nothing to do with property but are billions in worthless paper called Credit Default Swaps these are nothing more than paper and perverse form of insurance policies

3. a third of NAMA is in assets outside the state, in places such as east europe and dubai

PeakOutput wrote: »

pretty close? i think so and therefore saying we are getting lumped with developers debt and they are getting away scot free is not an accurate representation of how it works

both the banks and developers are getting of the hook

the developer declares bankruptcy and now the state (taxpayer) owns all the crap, the developer and bank get away from these toxic assets



NAMA is a big scam and an indirect bailout of the reckless who should fail, if you think otherwise you should stop drinking FF cool aid

Nate--IRL--

PeakOutput wrote: »

......when the market recovers

Recovers to what? bubble prices?

Nate

Edit:- this nicely illustrates the current position.

Two statements from Bank of Ireland on Friday underscored the crisis that continues to engulf Ireland's banking system. The first came in court, where the bank was trying to pursue unpaid loans from a developer.

According to its barrister, the bank had valued two parcels of land, one in Kildare that had been worth €17.5m at the peak of the property market and one in Athlone that had scaled the dizzy heights of €31m. Today the Kildare land is worth €4m and the Athlone land just €600,000, the bank said. Even Judge Peter Kelly, who has seen it all in the Commercial Court, was shocked, saying that his experience suggested that land prices had fallen by only 70-80 per cent.

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/analysis/message-from-banks-is-prepare-for-worst-2072627.html

doc_17

from 31m to 600k. says a lot about the state of things. so the houses in those ghost estates are gonna continue to fall for the foreseeable future whereas for nama to be profitable the finance minister is hoping for values to increase by 10% over 10 years. we're doomed, i feel so sorry for people who bought houses and land in 2007. they must be truely sickened

Welease

doc_17 wrote: »

from 31m to 600k. says a lot about the state of things. so the houses in those ghost estates are gonna continue to fall for the foreseeable future whereas for nama to be profitable the finance minister is hoping for values to increase by 10% over 10 years. we're doomed, i feel so sorry for people who bought houses and land in 2007. they must be truely sickened

It depends on how much a person paid, and the location/desirability etc. of that property. I purchased my current house in late 2007 and still consider it a good purchase, but then again I didn't buy a badly built flat in dublin for 1/2 million...

A lot of the properties that the state will own are not worth much more than dirt, but there are also properties in their that have grown in value.. Obviously not enough to fix this in the short term, but not all properties are ghost estates in the arseend of nowhere.

Nate--IRL--

Welease wrote: »

......... but not all properties are ghost estates in the arseend of nowhere.

Very true, we will own worthless properties all over the world.

http://www.thepropertypin.com/viewtopic.php?f=46&t=16621&p=199841#p199841


Nate

Welease

funny pic.. but like it or not.. there are properties on the books abroad that should realise a pretty quick profit. Not every country has a rediculous property fed boom like Ireland and in the UK for example prices have been rising due to a continual shortage of housing.

Liam Byrne

Welease wrote: »

fthere are properties on the books abroad that should realise a pretty quick profit. Not every country has a rediculous property fed boom like Ireland and in the UK for example prices have been rising due to a continual shortage of housing.

How many of those properties will be required to even remotely offset the ones like this :

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2010/0220/1224264880680.html?via=mr

Welease

Liam Byrne wrote: »

How many of those properties will be required to even remotely offset the ones like this :

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2010/0220/1224264880680.html?via=mr

I'll save you the bother of reading my post and quote myself

Welease wrote: »

Obviously not enough .

Joking aside.. I am not claiming the NAMA is good/bad/average or whatever.. Just pointing out that if people want to have a constructive arguement, then pretending all NAMA properties are ghost estates doesn't attempt to understand the real situation.

Liam Byrne

Welease wrote: »

Just pointing out that if people want to have a constructive arguement, then pretending all NAMA properties are ghost estates doesn't attempt to understand the real situation.

Yup, fair point. And I've never suggest that they're all ghost estates; I never even knew these existed until after NAMA was foisted on us, and was under the impression that there was a shortage (as we were told by whatever vested interests); these only came to light as soon as FF decided they'd force us to buy stuff that no-one wants.

But likewise I'd wish people would stop reporting a 30% overpayment* as a "30% discount".

*And climbing, as per the story at above link

the_barfly1

PeakOutput wrote: »

goverment gives money to bank bank gives goverment the debt. goverment gets repayments off people who are in debt and chases them threw the normal legal routes if they cant pay it all back, goverment then owns the assets of anyone who couldnt repay and gets to use them / sell them if and when the market recovers

pretty close? i think so and therefore saying we are getting lumped with developers debt and they are getting away scot free is not an accurate representation of how it works

Ok... So based on your explanation of how NAMA works...
In layman's terms... NAMA is a debt collection agency. They buy the debt and take a gamble on whether or not they can make the money back by collecting.

The problem with that is, anybody with a good knowledge of contract law (as these developers or their advisors will have), will know that they aren't legally obliged to pay any money to a debt collection agency, because they have no contract with them, the contracts for those loans are between the developers and the banks, and now NAMA will be paying off the loans for the developers... Mr Developer's contract has now been fulfilled by a third party without Mr Developer's consent. Mr Developer has never contracted with NAMA so has no obligation to pay NAMA. (unless of course, the contract between the developer and the bank states that the developer would be liable to pay money to an at-the-time non-existant entity in the event of non-payment)

In short, chances are that unless these developers are easily intimidated by strongly worded letters, they're not paying a cent. The government would have more success employing Viper Debt Collection in all fairness.

.......oops.


[If I'm wrong about any of this and a lawyer would like to correct me, please feel free... I'm only speaking from personal experience in dealing with collection agencies]

SkepticOne

the_barfly1 wrote: »

The problem with that is, anybody with a good knowledge of contract law (as these developers or their advisors will have), will know that they aren't legally obliged to pay any money to a debt collection agency, because they have no contract with them, the contracts for those loans are between the developers and the banks, and now NAMA will be paying off the loans for the developers..

I'm not a lawyer but I would be very surprised if that was the case. The problem I believe is more that the developers will milk the system for all it is worth then if it doesn't work out for them, go bust.

jmayo

changes wrote: »

Its mindboggling and its obscene.

But what amazes me is how peoples eyes glaze over when its mentioned.
Its almost as if people can't quite grasp it and therefore just ignore it.

To think that one of them decides to live in switzerland to ease his tax burden but is happy to leave his mess here for us to clean up.

Maddening.

Well last time checked this thread on Friday afternnon, nobody had bothered replying. Your reply was 5 hours after thread opened.
I was worried it was just going to be ignored totally.

donkey balls wrote: »

most of the above have there fingers in many pies and still operate/own companies that are still making profits,what happens to the profits they make do they pay of the debts they owe?.:rolleyes:

and by the way one of the above owns a big sports store franchise throughout ireland.

That is what is pi**ing me off.
These guys will continue to make money, still have fancy homes, fancy cars but the rest of us taxpayers will get hammered because we will be stuck with their debts.

Welease wrote: »

Probably going to be an unpopular point of view... but why should we go after all their personal belongings?

Are they not entitled to the same protection that limited companies afford other owners? (and yes I know some of this is not so clear with some personal guarantee's that were given to the banks... ).

Would people be so quick to call for the seizing of personal assets of the owners of every business in Ireland that fails?.. that would be a lot of people being made homeless sometimes through little fault of their own given the current credit crunch.

Imagine the negative impact to entrepreneurship in this country if everyone who set up a business could be held liable for every asset they owned...

Ah the poor developers my ar**.
They didn't setup long term enterprises, they jumped on a bubble, took gambles and are now leaving the debts to us the taxpayers.
They are not ordinary entrepreneurs who actually create something sustainable.
They are gamblers who just built buildings and often very poor ones at that.
Every other business in Ireland isn't getting bailed out when it fails.
And yes the developers do benefit from NAMA as can be seen from the carroll/Zoe case.

Welease wrote: »

My impression was we were bailing out the banks.. not the developers.. Will anyone on the list above receive money from the government or NAMA?

Actually as highlighted by the Zoe/carrol case the banks were going to give the developers money in some cases to complete the developments, so yes they may be going to get money indirectly from us the taxpayers.

Also article in one of yesterday's papers highlighted how not alone are the developers getting tax back due to their losses on the these developments, they are sometimes employed by banks to manage the developments.

Note nobody wants or needs these developments at this time.
We have over supply of residential hosuing, retail space and commerical property in most towns and ciites.

stepbar wrote: »

So Paddy Kelly's not in the top ten? or Bernard McNamara's buddies Jerry O'Reilly and David Courtney? Well holy god if that's the case :eek:

And remember lads, every last one of these guys are multibanked.

Don't worry paddy kelly, personal friend of bertie and seanie fitz, is going to dumping lots of sh**e into NAMA.
Wasn't he awfully upset the way ff were abandoning him

Are you still in BOI ?
Remember we now are shareholders

Kess73 wrote: »

I was under the impression that he was not the sole owner, and owned it with other family members.

Yep that is the way they all operate, divest the assets with putting them in family names, trust, etc.
Sure doesn't poor ould mrs drumm own the house and not david "the scumbag" ex Anglo ceo.
Nice to know he is now resident in New England, rather than little old debt ridden Ireland. :mad:

PeakOutput wrote: »

you dont understand how nama works at all do you?

Why don't you tell me and all the other poor smucks that can't see how it will make us all money rather than cost us money. :rolleyes:
ei.sdraob sums up my answer perfectly.

If you are deluded enough to think that buying loans originally worth 70 odd billion for knock down 54 odd billion and trying to get repayment from defunct development vehicles is going to work then you must be frank fahey.
Oh and when they take the development land/property do you think it will realise anywhere near the amount outstanding on the loans ?

In some cases these securing properties have dropped to 10 to 30% of original purchase value, see Irish glass bottle plant as good example.
Also here is kicker sometimes there have been very little repayment, if any, on the loans since the developers and bankers did cosy deals where they only repaid on completion of project.
Thus we get total loan.

PeakOutput wrote: »

goverment gives money to bank bank gives goverment the debt. goverment gets repayments off people who are in debt and chases them threw the normal legal routes if they cant pay it all back, goverment then owns the assets of anyone who couldnt repay and gets to use them / sell them if and when the market recovers

pretty close? i think so and therefore saying we are getting lumped with developers debt and they are getting away scot free is not an accurate representation of how it works

Ah frank is it yourself ?

So until that the market recovers we are stuck with loads of property that nobody will want.

I can't wait to see how they are going to chase quinlan for his debts. :rolleyes:
The developers set up companies to handle developments, once these go bust there may be no comeback to their other businesses.
Then if they have given personal guarantees you will find their personal residence, possibly worth many millions even intodays market, is deemed immune from repossession.
Then you also find through a mire of companies and trusts that they own nothing to repossess.

I will still bet that in tens years time they will sill be living in very fancy homes, still drive very fancy expensive cars, still jet around the world and lo and behold their kids and family will have loads of money to set up new businesses and enterprises.

Meanwhile us normal taxpayers will be paying more tax, if we are lucky enough to still have a job, will be getting even crappier public services and our kids will be looking at emigrating if they haven't already.

woodseb

ei.sdraob wrote: »

2. problem #2 a chunk of NAMA has nothing to do with property but are billions in worthless paper called Credit Default Swaps these are nothing more than paper and perverse form of insurance policies

source for this?

Nate--IRL--

woodseb wrote: »

source for this?

In General the derivatives in question are Interest rate swaps rather that Credit Default swaps.

http://www.tribune.ie/business/news/article/2010/jan/24/nama-hires-societe-generale-division-for-derivativ/

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/finance/2009/0821/1224253021778.html

Nate

woodseb

Nate--IRL-- wrote: »

In General the derivatives in question are Interest rate swaps rather that Credit Default swaps.

http://www.tribune.ie/business/news/article/2010/jan/24/nama-hires-societe-generale-division-for-derivativ/

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/finance/2009/0821/1224253021778.html

Nate

OK - so they are completely different from credit default swaps....in fact they are quiet rational instruments to be used to manage interest rate risk by any vehicle taking on billions in debt

they are hardly

are billions in worthless paper called Credit Default Swaps these are nothing more than paper and perverse form of insurance policies

Slideshowbob

Kess73 wrote: »

Was not talking about him as the Stafford family own Lifestyle sports.

McNamara was involved with Champion Sports - no secret!

http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/superquinn-buyers-in-champion-sports-deal-79493.html

fontanalis

woodseb wrote: »

OK - so they are completely different from credit default swaps....in fact they are quiet rational instruments to be used to manage interest rate risk by any vehicle taking on billions in debt

they are hardly

But vlauation of "simple" derivatives can be complicated, remember this is Irish banks we're talking about!

kleefarr

It clear, and has been for a while now, that the average Joe is being screwed by the Banks and by the Government. People think that when this all blows over everything will be Hunky Dory again. It may be for a while but not for ever.
I don't think the future is rosy. Not here or anywhere that employs the 'Money as Debt' principle of finance, which is just based on a credit borrowing economy.
How can it be sustained? The greed is killing everything. :mad:

oppenheimer1

jmayo wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2010/0218/1224264715434.html

Well folks here it is, these are first of the developers who are leaving toxic
debts to the taxpayers to clean up.
Here are the mug shots of the ones who we can thank.



Next time you see Johnny Ronan passing in his chauffeur driven Maybach be sure to wave and let him know that we are taking care of his debts.

Lets look through the list and do a bit of cross matching.

AFAIK the following are definite ff supporters:
Bernard McNamara; Sean Mulryan, Johnny Ronan, Paddy McKillen, Michael O’Flynn, Gerry Gannon, Joe O’Reilly.

Cross match with Anglo Golden 10 circle:
Paddy McKillen, Gerry Gannon, Joe O’Reilly

What is all the more galling is one of these shysters, Derek Quinlan (mr Irish Glass bottle plant as well), has run off to Switzerland so that he no longer contributes tax to the country.
How much of a spit in the face of Irish taxpayers is that ?

Were you giving about those "shysters" when they were employing thousands of people?

Diarmuid

SLUSK wrote: »

The economists of today do not believe in proper capitalism. They much more prefer crony capitalism.

Care to back up that sweeping statement?

ei.sdraob

Diarmuid wrote: »

Care to back up that sweeping statement?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Asset_Management_Agency

Liam Byrne

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

Were you giving about those "shysters" when they were employing thousands of people?

Unfair question.

When they were employing thousands of people, we didn't know that they were reckless, gambling con-men.

If we had known, then of course we would have complained.

hinault

They're shysters all right - every last one of 'em.

Must keep an eye for Ronan when he's sweating his way around the Wicklow200 course this year.