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Names Of Top 10 Borrowers In First Wave Of Nama transfers revealed

  • 19-02-2010 12:11PM
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,227 ✭✭✭✭


    ANGLO IRISH Bank will transfer close to €10 billion in loans into the National Asset Management Agency (Nama), accounting for the largest amount owed by the top 10 developers moving to the agency in the coming weeks.

    The Irish Times has established the identities of the top borrowers being moved in the first wave of transfers to the State agency.

    They are developers
    Liam Carroll; Bernard McNamara; Sean Mulryan of Ballymore; financier Derek Quinlan; Paddy McKillen, owner of the Jervis Street Shopping Centre;
    Treasury Holdings, which is owned by Johnny Ronan and Richard Barrett;
    Cork developer Michael O’Flynn; Joe O’Reilly, the developer behind the Dundrum Shopping Centre in Dublin; Dublin builder Gerry Gannon, co-owner of the K Club golf resort in Co Kildare; and Galway businessman Gerry Barrett, owner of Ashford Castle in Co Mayo and G Hotel in Galway.

    More than €16 billion in loans linked to the top 10 are being moved to Nama out of a total of €80 billion being transferred.

    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2010/0218/1224264715434.html

    Well folks here it is, these are first of the developers who are leaving toxic
    debts to the taxpayers to clean up.
    Here are the mug shots of the ones who we can thank.

    1zzs3zr.jpg

    Next time you see Johnny Ronan passing in his chauffeur driven Maybach be sure to wave and let him know that we are taking care of his debts.

    Lets look through the list and do a bit of cross matching.

    AFAIK the following are definite ff supporters:
    Bernard McNamara; Sean Mulryan, Johnny Ronan, Paddy McKillen, Michael O’Flynn, Gerry Gannon, Joe O’Reilly.

    Cross match with Anglo Golden 10 circle:
    Paddy McKillen, Gerry Gannon, Joe O’Reilly

    What is all the more galling is one of these shysters, Derek Quinlan (mr Irish Glass bottle plant as well), has run off to Switzerland so that he no longer contributes tax to the country.
    How much of a spit in the face of Irish taxpayers is that ?

    I am not allowed discuss …



«13

Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 959 ✭✭✭changes


    Its mindboggling and its obscene.

    But what amazes me is how peoples eyes glaze over when its mentioned.
    Its almost as if people can't quite grasp it and therefore just ignore it.

    To think that one of them decides to live in switzerland to ease his tax burden but is happy to leave his mess here for us to clean up.

    Maddening.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,619 ✭✭✭fontanalis


    Thanks for the sh!te lads!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,836 ✭✭✭donkey balls


    most of the above have there fingers in many pies and still operate/own companies that are still making profits,what happens to the profits they make do they pay of the debts they owe?.:rolleyes:

    and by the way one of the above owns a big sports store franchise throughout ireland.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 755 ✭✭✭T-Square


    We should be taking ever thing they have in their possession.

    Take the cars, especially Johnny Ronan's Maybach, take their wifes jewelery, take their clothes, take the houses they live in, take it all.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,428 ✭✭✭MysticalRain


    Next time you see Johnny Ronan passing in his chauffeur driven Maybach be sure to wave and let him know that we are taking care of his debts.
    and the next time he buys Glenda a new Range Rover.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,163 ✭✭✭✭Liam Byrne


    ....and by the way one of the above owns a big sports store franchise throughout ireland.

    Is this common knowledge ? If so, can we say it here so that we can [choose personally whether or not to] boycott it ?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,834 ✭✭✭Welease


    Probably going to be an unpopular point of view... but why should we go after all their personal belongings?

    Are they not entitled to the same protection that limited companies afford other owners? (and yes I know some of this is not so clear with some personal guarantee's that were given to the banks... ).

    Would people be so quick to call for the seizing of personal assets of the owners of every business in Ireland that fails?.. that would be a lot of people being made homeless sometimes through little fault of their own given the current credit crunch.

    Imagine the negative impact to entrepreneurship in this country if everyone who set up a business could be held liable for every asset they owned...


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,163 ✭✭✭✭Liam Byrne


    Welease wrote: »
    Would people be so quick to call for the seizing of personal assets of the owners of every business in Ireland that fails?.. that would be a lot of people being made homeless sometimes through little fault of their own given the current credit crunch.

    No, but FF aren't bailing out "every business in Ireland" with our money.

    And the "little fault of their own" doesn't apply to those who operated in this manner.

    Smaller businesses and bad luck, then maybe you have a point; out and out greed combined with a lack of ethics and a Galway tent inspired bailout, no chance!

    Take 'em for everything they have.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,834 ✭✭✭Welease


    Liam Byrne wrote: »
    No, but FF aren't bailing out "every business in Ireland" with our money.

    And the "little fault of their own" doesn't apply to those who operated in this manner.

    Smaller businesses and bad luck, then maybe you have a point; out and out greed combined with a lack of ethics and a Galway tent inspired bailout, no chance!

    Take 'em for everything they have.

    My impression was we were bailing out the banks.. not the developers.. Will anyone on the list above receive money from the government or NAMA?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,364 ✭✭✭ei.sdraob


    NAMA is a crime

    10 people run up debts of 16billion

    and it all gets dumped on the taxpayers

    sick :mad:


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,156 ✭✭✭SLUSK


    Private profits and socialized losses. That is what modern capitalism has been reduced to. It is sickening. Ordinary people getting hit with higher taxes and reduced social services while the people who bankrupted the nation gets to keep their property.

    These developers should be asked to repay these debts and if they can't they should be thrown in jail.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,017 ✭✭✭The_Thing


    Dyin's too good for 'em.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,364 ✭✭✭ei.sdraob


    SLUSK wrote: »
    Private profits and socialized losses. That is what modern capitalism has been reduced to. It is sickening. Ordinary people getting hit with higher taxes and reduced social services while the people who bankrupted the nation gets to keep their property.

    These developers should be asked to repay these debts and if they can't they should be thrown in jail.

    this is not capitalism

    its bastardized socialism at its worst

    in a proper capitalist system these people and their companies would go under and become bankrupt, in their failure a lesson is taught to whoever gave them money that lending carries risk, what was done with NAMA and bailouts has created a huge moral hazard, and all of this will be repeated again on a larger scale in a few years

    where has that money gone? well one of them owns that ****hole of a G hotel here in Galway, a giant white elephant that symbolizes the mis-allocation and waste of capital


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,156 ✭✭✭SLUSK


    ei.sdraob wrote: »
    this is not capitalism

    its bastardized socialism at its worst

    in a proper capitalist system these people and their companies would go under and become bankrupt, in their failure a lesson is taught to whoever gave them money that lending carries risk, what was done with NAMA and bailouts has created a huge moral hazard, and all of this will be repeated again on a larger scale in a few years

    where has that money gone? well one of them owns that ****hole of a G hotel here in Galway, a giant white elephant that symbolizes the mis-allocation and waste of capital

    The economists of today do not believe in proper capitalism. They much more prefer crony capitalism.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,123 ✭✭✭stepbar


    So Paddy Kelly's not in the top ten? or Bernard McNamara's buddies Jerry O'Reilly and David Courtney? Well holy god if that's the case :eek:

    And remember lads, every last one of these guys are multibanked.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,718 ✭✭✭SkepticOne


    Welease wrote: »
    My impression was we were bailing out the banks.. not the developers.. Will anyone on the list above receive money from the government or NAMA?
    Most bailouts aren't free money of the sort that the banks are getting. Most bailouts are in the form of credit on better terms than the market would normally provide. It is this second more common form that the developers will be enjoying. A case in point would be Liam Carroll where creditors were closing in on him before NAMA. He narrowly made it in and so you won't be hearing about him being shut down for a while. There were reportedly celebrations among developers when the NAMA legislation was passed.

    None of the measures taken by the government actually solve anything. What they do is pass the problem down the line for a few years so that it can be dealt with by someone else.

    With NAMA issues that would have led to short term problems in the banks have been transformed into long term problems for the country as a whole. We've no idea of how those are going to be solved but that is a problem for the next government.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 879 ✭✭✭dunsandin


    I would imagine that taking a clear-windscreen view of our political system would help here. The current system of governance that pertains in Ireland has absolutely no eye on the future what so ever. To be elected to high office, or even to reach the higher echelons of the civil service, big business or commerce, is like winning the lottery. If you are onto a good thing, you do your best to stay there-in the saddle. All of the opinions and outrage assume one thing- that our leadership have a moral compass, and are not simply interested in keeping hold of power and therefore money. They do not give a toss about future generations, the ordinary people, nor even what public opinion believes. Like the "Catholic Church PLc", they are a system, and that system enriches those within, and hang everyone else.
    It is not a question of right or wrong, just a question of manipulating public perception to suit their ends. Once a businessman passes a certain size, the normal rules cease to apply.(rules are for the little people) So, if they need big loans written off - the system obliges, if they need legislation altered, tax rules re-written, it is done. Big business means big money, and big money makes the rules, and the more corrupt a country is, the easier the rules are melded and bent for them. You will not see too many skinny dictators, while their people starve. The system in dictatorships is just less well dressed up than it is here in Ireland, Mugabi doesn't have to pretend nice, cos he will be re-elected regardless. Our lot have to a least pretend nice, and smile for the cameras, but at the end of the day, big money rules, and the people pay for their lifestyles.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,560 ✭✭✭✭Kess73


    most of the above have there fingers in many pies and still operate/own companies that are still making profits,what happens to the profits they make do they pay of the debts they owe?.:rolleyes:

    and by the way one of the above owns a big sports store franchise throughout ireland.


    I was under the impression that he was not the sole owner, and owned it with other family members.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 879 ✭✭✭dunsandin


    Kess73 wrote: »
    I was under the impression that he was not the sole owner, and owned it with other family members.


    The Soprano family?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,123 ✭✭✭stepbar


    Kess73 wrote: »
    I was under the impression that he was not the sole owner, and owned it with other family members.

    McNamara sold out of Superquinn and AFAIK done the same with Lifestyle Sports.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,364 ✭✭✭ei.sdraob


    SLUSK wrote: »
    The economists of today do not believe in proper capitalism. They much more prefer crony capitalism.

    what economists exactly? the ones who work for banks and financial companies??

    plenty of independent economists and academic economists here in Ireland and abroad (including a Nobel prize winner) have told us and written letters that NAMA is a terrible idea


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,638 ✭✭✭PeakOutput


    jmayo wrote: »

    Well folks here it is, these are first of the developers who are leaving toxic
    debts to the taxpayers to clean up.
    Here are the mug shots of the ones who we can thank.

    you dont understand how nama works at all do you?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,364 ✭✭✭ei.sdraob


    PeakOutput wrote: »
    you dont understand how nama works at all do you?

    how does it work?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,434 ✭✭✭doc_17


    Nobody knows how it works, Maybe that's the idea. It's looking like a worse and worse idea by the day.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 403 ✭✭amjon.


    jmayo wrote: »

    What is all the more galling is one of these shysters, Derek Quinlan (mr Irish Glass bottle plant as well), has run off to Switzerland so that he no longer contributes tax to the country.

    What a genius! Hilarious!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,638 ✭✭✭PeakOutput


    ei.sdraob wrote: »
    how does it work?

    goverment gives money to bank bank gives goverment the debt. goverment gets repayments off people who are in debt and chases them threw the normal legal routes if they cant pay it all back, goverment then owns the assets of anyone who couldnt repay and gets to use them / sell them if and when the market recovers

    pretty close? i think so and therefore saying we are getting lumped with developers debt and they are getting away scot free is not an accurate representation of how it works


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,560 ✭✭✭✭Kess73


    stepbar wrote: »
    McNamara sold out of Superquinn and AFAIK done the same with Lifestyle Sports.



    Was not talking about him as the Stafford family own Lifestyle sports.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,364 ✭✭✭ei.sdraob


    PeakOutput wrote: »
    goverment gives money to bank bank gives goverment the debt. goverment gets repayments off people who are in debt and chases them threw the normal legal routes if they cant pay it all back, goverment then owns the assets of anyone who couldnt repay and gets to use them / sell them if and when the market recovers

    1. there lies one huge problem

    these assets are not worth a fraction of what they used to, and never will be

    these are ghost estates, anglo irish building and the likes of that carpark in d4...

    2. problem #2 a chunk of NAMA has nothing to do with property but are billions in worthless paper called Credit Default Swaps these are nothing more than paper and perverse form of insurance policies

    3. a third of NAMA is in assets outside the state, in places such as east europe and dubai

    PeakOutput wrote: »
    pretty close? i think so and therefore saying we are getting lumped with developers debt and they are getting away scot free is not an accurate representation of how it works

    both the banks and developers are getting of the hook

    the developer declares bankruptcy and now the state (taxpayer) owns all the crap, the developer and bank get away from these toxic assets



    NAMA is a big scam and an indirect bailout of the reckless who should fail, if you think otherwise you should stop drinking FF cool aid


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 2,253 ✭✭✭Nate--IRL--


    PeakOutput wrote: »
    ......when the market recovers

    Recovers to what? bubble prices?

    Nate

    Edit:- this nicely illustrates the current position.
    Two statements from Bank of Ireland on Friday underscored the crisis that continues to engulf Ireland's banking system. The first came in court, where the bank was trying to pursue unpaid loans from a developer.

    According to its barrister, the bank had valued two parcels of land, one in Kildare that had been worth €17.5m at the peak of the property market and one in Athlone that had scaled the dizzy heights of €31m. Today the Kildare land is worth €4m and the Athlone land just €600,000, the bank said. Even Judge Peter Kelly, who has seen it all in the Commercial Court, was shocked, saying that his experience suggested that land prices had fallen by only 70-80 per cent.

    http://www.independent.ie/opinion/analysis/message-from-banks-is-prepare-for-worst-2072627.html


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,434 ✭✭✭doc_17


    from 31m to 600k. says a lot about the state of things. so the houses in those ghost estates are gonna continue to fall for the foreseeable future whereas for nama to be profitable the finance minister is hoping for values to increase by 10% over 10 years. we're doomed, i feel so sorry for people who bought houses and land in 2007. they must be truely sickened


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