Am Christian/Catholic?? Opinions?

grrrrrrrrrr · 17-02-2010 11:38pm #1

Just wondering am I still Catholic even though i dont attend mass? i consider myself religious but really dont see what going to listen to s**t has to do with spirituality! i believe in god etc..

Any comments?

yessam · 17-02-2010 11:47pm

grrrrrrrrrr wrote: »

Just wondering am I still Catholic even though i dont attend mass? i consider myself religious but really dont see what going to listen to s**t has to do with spirituality! i believe in god etc..

Any comments?

you are probably still catcholic but you are not a practicing catcholic. you said you are religious, how do you practice it, maybe it is a different religion your practicing

grrrrrrrrrr · 17-02-2010 11:58pm

yessam wrote: »

you are probably still catcholic but you are not a practicing catcholic. you said you are religious, how do you practice it, maybe it is a different religion your practicing

id pray but not too regularly! id participate in lent, funerals etc....

prinz · 18-02-2010 9:11am

grrrrrrrrrr wrote: »

i consider myself religious but really dont see what going to listen to s**t has to do with spirituality!

You know that s**t you don't think has anything to do with spirituality?..... that's Catholicism.

Xluna · 18-02-2010 9:20am

grrrrrrrrrr wrote: »

Just wondering am I still Catholic even though i dont attend mass? i consider myself religious but really dont see what going to listen to s**t has to do with spirituality! i believe in god etc..

Any comments?

Non denominational Christian.

grrrrrrrrrr · 18-02-2010 9:38am

prinz wrote: »

You know that s**t you don't think has anything to do with spirituality?..... that's Catholicism.

haha. sorry if i offended you but seriously what has god got to do with things that happened 2000 years ago! like wit human nature its blatently obvious that you can not preserve stories that long!

and then the churchs' view on evolution and the like.... f**k sake

and homosexuality?? all just sh*t really!!

another debate i supppose.

maybe i should talk to a priest!! ha

Xluna · 18-02-2010 9:48am

grrrrrrrrrr wrote: »

haha. sorry if i offended you but seriously what has god got to do with things that happened 2000 years ago! like wit human nature its blatently obvious that you can not preserve stories that long!

and then the churchs' view on evolution and the like.... f**k sake

and homosexuality?? all just sh*t really!!

another debate i supppose.

maybe i should talk to a priest!! ha

Well if it's the Judeo Christian God you believe in then what's alleged to have happened 2000 years has a lot to do with it. The Catholic church actually does support evolution,though tolerating homosexual relations is another matter. If it's just some devine creator you believe in than that would make you a Deist.

Tea 1000 · 18-02-2010 9:54am

grrrrrrrrrr wrote: »

haha. sorry if i offended you but seriously what has god got to do with things that happened 2000 years ago!

Everything really, from a Catholic point of view.

grrrrrrrrrr wrote: »

and then the churchs' view on evolution and the like.... f**k sake

You're obviously not aware about the Catholic view on evolution... unless of course you think evolution is all nonsense, which is the only way to validate your remark.

grrrrrrrrrr wrote: »

maybe i should talk to a priest!! ha

No point, you're not Catholic based on your posts here. Not even Christian either. I would say that you're a theist, based on your posts alone. If you don't like religion you don't have to be part of one.

grrrrrrrrrr · 18-02-2010 10:00am

Xluna wrote: »

Well if it's the Judeo Christian God you believe in then what's alleged to have happened 2000 years has a lot to do with it. The Catholic church actually does support evolution,though tolerating homosexual relations is another matter. If it's just some devine creator you believe in than that would make you a Deist.

ya maybe i odnt see the point in the stories because of the corruption in the church?? like a 2 priests in my parish driving big brand neew cars! fair enough they can use their money but dont they give out to me when they took a vow of poverty!

i just see the church as a money making racket and to be honest id prob leave it officially on that "count me out" site but wannna stay for wedding funeral etc.... if the church gets money off me etc then ill get something out of them!!

Deist????

grrrrrrrrrr · 18-02-2010 10:12am

Tea 1000 wrote: »

Everything really, from a Catholic point of view.

You're obviously not aware about the Catholic view on evolution... unless of course you think evolution is all nonsense, which is the only way to validate your remark.

Right sorry. theres a priest in my class in school(long story, came back to do the LC)

He got into a big debate with our biology teacher about adam and eve being real and that he couldnt believe the teacher was taken in by the whole darwin thing. he can be very touchy!

No point, you're not Catholic based on your posts here. Not even Christian either. I would say that you're a theist, based on your posts alone. If you don't like religion you don't have to be part of one.

fair enough! not overly bothered. i believe in a god but have my own views on it

prinz · 18-02-2010 10:17am

grrrrrrrrrr wrote: »

haha. sorry if i offended you

It takes more than that to offend me.

grrrrrrrrrr wrote: »

....but seriously what has god got to do with things that happened 2000 years ago!

...presumably the same that God has to do with things now, are you now going back on your belief in God?

grrrrrrrrrr wrote: »

...like wit human nature its blatently obvious that you can not preserve stories that long!

Apparently you can.

grrrrrrrrrr wrote: »

...and then the churchs' view on evolution and the like.... f**k sake

Care to expand on what you think the Church's view on evolution is?

grrrrrrrrrr wrote: »

ya maybe i odnt see the point in the stories because of the corruption in the church?? like a 2 priests in my parish driving big brand neew cars! fair enough they can use their money but dont they give out to me when they took a vow of poverty!

Maybe they won some cash in the lotto? See this fyi. Particularly the one about diocesan priests and the vow of poverty...

http://www.sandyfordparish.org/UPLOADS/vocation_questions_2.pdf

grrrrrrrrrr wrote: »

i just see the church as a money making racket and to be honest id prob leave it officially on that "count me out" site but wannna stay for wedding funeral etc.... if the church gets money off me etc then ill get something out of them!!

So you want to corrupt the Church more?

grrrrrrrrrr · 18-02-2010 10:32am

Maybe they won some cash in the lotto? See this fyi. Particularly the one about diocesan priests and the vow of poverty...

http://www.sandyfordparish.org/UPLOADS/vocation_questions_2.pdf

So you want to corrupt the Church more?

Great, in that case ignore what i said! im off to join the seminary! theres some money in it....

ill get stoned for that anyway!!

i suppose at the end of the day im very ignorant on the matter! suppose its lack of interest!!

Stephentlig · 18-02-2010 11:22am

I've been through this debate before with a Catholic professor of science, and I dont wanna go into another one, so this is gonna be my only post on the matter. the Catholic Church does not accept the theory of evolution, it is neither in Tradition or sacred Scripture. To ask more questions you can consult John Salza concerning this subject ( Catholic apologist ) at www.scripturecatholic.com

To the OP, for some reason I cannot help but think your ( which is new to me ) a troll and have come here just to spark debate on certain things.

Your gonna have to accept the view that God made Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve if you wanna remain Catholic, the Catholic churches teaching in the Cathechism on homosexuality can be found in your local Veritas or Christian shop.its not that expensive, about 7 to 10 euros. after reading it if you cannot accept all the infallible doctrines within it, then your not Catholic.

what do you mean by listening to s**t? if its homilys then I must agree I've heard some liquid S..H..etc etc from the pulpit in my day, and not every priests homily is as good as the next, but he is still trying and he or she will always have my respect as I wouldnt consider myself to be able to do any better than them.

You have lost interest, this happens us all, even the greatest of Saints lost interest at times, but with the help of God and their co-operation with him they got through it. My suggestion to you is to go and practice the Sacraments, form a relationship with Christ, but nobody is asking you to do this all in one go, take it step by step, at your own pace and allow to the Holy Spirit to lead you. Pick up an interesting spiritual novel, such as ''the way of a pilgrim'' http://www.amazon.ca/Way-Pilgrim-Walter-J-Ciszek/dp/0385468148

Read a passage of the Gospel once a day whilst reading the novel along with one Hail Mary when you finish it all and take it from there.

Ask God every day to lead you to him according to his will etc etc.

again dont overload your self, if what I have said is too much for you, then just take it at your own pace, step by step.

I play the guitar, and sometimes I get disinterested in it and dont play it for months, I even consider giving it up and going on to some other instrument, but soon, my love for the guitar and playing it is soon rekindled and I understand that I'll always be a guitarist whether I like it or not :pac: haha.

God bless and take care
Stephen

Xluna · 18-02-2010 11:31am

grrrrrrrrrr wrote: »

Deist????

A person who believes in a divine creator,a supreme being,but does not presume to know said creators intent nor expects the Deity to intervene in personal human affairs.

kelly1 · 18-02-2010 11:45am

grrrrrrrrrr wrote: »

Just wondering am I still Catholic even though i dont attend mass? i consider myself religious but really dont see what going to listen to s**t has to do with spirituality! i believe in god etc..

Do you think the word of God (bible readings) is s**t!? Do you want to be entertained at Mass or do you want to worship God!?

grrrrrrrrrr wrote: »

haha. sorry if i offended you but seriously what has god got to do with things that happened 2000 years ago! like wit human nature its blatently obvious that you can not preserve stories that long!

Actually it can be proven that bible texts have changed very, very little since they were first written because of the high degree of agreement between ancient manuscripts.

grrrrrrrrrr wrote: »

and then the churchs' view on evolution and the like.... f**k sake

You really should check these things out for yourself. The Church does accept evolution and other scientific discoveries.

prinz · 18-02-2010 11:57am

Stephentlig wrote: »

I've been through this debate before with a Catholic professor of science, and I dont wanna go into another one, so this is gonna be my only post on the matter. the Catholic Church does not accept the theory of evolution, it is neither in Tradition or sacred Scripture.

Perhaps you should check Pope Piux XII's encyclical Humani Generis or

We cannot say: creation or evolution, inasmuch as these two things respond to two different realities. The story of the dust of the earth and the breath of God, which we just heard, does not in fact explain how human persons come to be but rather what they are. It explains their inmost origin and casts light on the project that they are. And, vice versa, the theory of evolution seeks to understand and describe biological developments. But in so doing it cannot explain where the 'project' of human persons comes from, nor their inner origin, nor their particular nature. To that extent we are faced here with two complementary -- rather than mutually exclusive -- realities.
– Cardinal Ratzinger

or

In an October 22, 1996, address to the Pontifical Academy of Sciences, Pope John Paul II updated the Church's position to accept evolution of the human body:
"In his encyclical Humani Generis (1950), my predecessor Pius XII has already affirmed that there is no conflict between evolution and the doctrine of the faith regarding man and his vocation, provided that we do not lose sight of certain fixed points....Today, more than a half-century after the appearance of that encyclical, some new findings lead us toward the recognition of evolution as more than a hypothesis. In fact it is remarkable that this theory has had progressively greater influence on the spirit of researchers, following a series of discoveries in different scholarly disciplines. The convergence in the results of these independent studies – which was neither planned nor sought – constitutes in itself a significant argument in favor of the theory."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church_and_evolution#cite_note-0

Stephentlig · 18-02-2010 12:14pm

prinz wrote: »

Perhaps you should check Pope Piux XII's encyclical Humani Generis or

or

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church_and_evolution#cite_note-0

Yes I have check Pius XII's Humani Generis and like protestants who twist the scriptures Catholics are no different than them when it comes to twisting the words of the Pope.

Cardinal ratzingers comment is not an infallible one, and is his own private opinion, the last infallible statement coming from the Church with regards to evolution was Humani Generi which I will qoute you now.

1950 – On August 12, Pope Pius XII issues the encyclical Humani Generis which addressed false opinions that were threatening to undermine Catholic doctrine. The pope, in echoing St. Augustine and Providentissimus Deus, declared that the modern exegete’s desire to depart from a literal interpretation of Scripture in favor of a non-literal interpretation was foreign to Catholic teaching: “Further, according to their fictitious opinions, the literal sense of Holy Scripture and its explanation, carefully worked out under the Church's vigilance by so many great exegetes, should yield now to a new exegesis, which they are pleased to call symbolic or spiritual” (no. 23). “Everyone sees how foreign all this is to the principles and norms of interpretation rightly fixed by our predecessors of happy memory, Leo XIII in his Encyclical Providentissimus Deus, and Benedict XV in the Encyclical Spiritus Paraclitus, as also by Ourselves in the Encyclical Divino Afflante Spiritu” (no. 24). The pope also broached the theory of evolution with caution by stating that the Church “does not forbid research and discussions...with regard to evolution,” but warns that “divine revelation demands the greatest moderation and caution” when so discussing, and says we must ultimately “submit to the judgment of the Church” (no. 36). The pope further condemned “polygenism,” the heretical belief that the human race is not the product of a single set of parents (Adam and Eve), but multiple parents, as evolutionary theory maintains.

The early Church Fathers were unanimous in their belief that God directly created all things out of nothing (not by an evolutionary process of secondary causes). None of the Fathers’ views ever supported the possibility of an evolutionary process in creation. The Fathers also agreed that God created the universe in six literal days. St. Augustine introduced an alternative theory which proposed that God may have created the entire world in an instant (not in six days, and certainly not in millions of years). However, Augustine also said that a six-day creation was possible as well. Are the Fathers’ views important to us as we interpret the Scriptures? The answer is: Yes, very important.

In 1564, the Council of Trent (Session IV, April 8), one of the Church’s most important councils and to which the Catholic conscience is bound forever, infallibly taught that no one could “in matters of faith and of morals pertaining to the edification of Christian doctrine...interpret the sacred Scriptures...even contrary to the unanimous consent of the Fathers.” This infallible teaching was restated by the First Vatican Council in 1870.

Hence, the Church definitively teaches that the faithful cannot depart from the interpretation of the Fathers when they are unanimous in their interpretation of Scripture on a point of Revelation. This also means that we must defer to the unanimous opinion of the Fathers in all matters of Revelation, not just religious matters.

Pope Benedict XV stated that “by these precepts and limits [set by the Fathers of the Church]...wish, indeed, that inspiration itself pertain to all ideas, rather even to the individual words of the Bible...” Spiritus Paraclitus, September 15, 1920. The pope condemned contrary opinions by stating “For their belief is that that only which concerns religion is intended and is taught by God in the Scriptures; but that the rest, which pertains to the profane disciplines...is left to the feebleness of the writer...But how rashly, how falsely this is affirmed.” Ibid.

Why are the Fathers important? The Church teaches that the Fathers are important because they received the rule of interpretations from the successors to the apostles and the apostles themselves. The Fathers “endeavored to acquire the understanding of the Holy Scriptures not by their own lights and ideas, but from the writings and authority of the ancients, who in their turn, as we know, received the rule of interpretation in direct line from the Apostles.” Pope Leo XIII, Providentissimus Deus, No. 14, 1893.

Now I'll shall allow you to debate with John Salza as if your interested in learning the truth about what the church teaches regarding evolution you'll e-mail him.

I end my discussion on the matter with the words from St.Anthony the Great ''When you find someone arguing, and contesting what is true, and self evident, break off the dispute and give way to such a man, since his intellect has been petrified. For just as bad water ruins good wines, so harmful talk corrupts those who are virtuous in life and character. ''

grrrrrrrrrr · 18-02-2010 12:38pm

Xluna wrote: »

A person who believes in a divine creator,a supreme being,but does not presume to know said creators intent nor expects the Deity to intervene in personal human affairs.

thats me so i guess!!

and that stephen guy (above) makes me sound less ignorant! do the church themselves know what their views are??

Tea 1000 · 18-02-2010 12:42pm

It looks like you've quoted a synopsis of the entire document, yet you criticise people for twisting words.

grrrrrrrrrr · 18-02-2010 12:42pm

Stephentlig wrote: »

I end my discussion on the matter with the words from St.Anthony the Great ''When you find someone arguing, and contesting what is true, and self evident, break off the dispute and give way to such a man, since his intellect has been petrified. For just as bad water ruins good wines, so harmful talk corrupts those who are virtuous in life and character. ''

Butter my arse, what a quote!!

prinz · 18-02-2010 12:52pm

Stephentlig wrote: »

Cardinal ratzingers comment is not an infallible one, and is his own private opinion, the last infallible statement coming from the Church with regards to evolution was Humani Generi which I will qoute you now...

Can you show where/when/how Humani Generis is to be taken as infallible?

grrrrrrrrrr · 18-02-2010 1:00pm

http://www.ucg.org.uk/ad/ev/?gclid=CM-wo8r4-58CFVpb4wodX21qjw

this was an advertisement at the bottom of the page!!

PDN · 18-02-2010 1:18pm

grrrrrrrrrr wrote: »

http://www.ucg.org.uk/ad/ev/?gclid=CM-wo8r4-58CFVpb4wodX21qjw

this was an advertisement at the bottom of the page!!

I wouldn't worry about that. Ads are generated by keywords in posts.

I once wrote a blog post while I was on a cruise, and happened to refer in passing to homosexuality, to this day I get lots of people find their way to my blog by googling about gay cruises. They must be mightily disappointed to find themselves reading my opinions on sociology, missiology and church history - but to date no-one has been so ungracious as to leave me any unkind comments.

grrrrrrrrrr · 18-02-2010 1:22pm

PDN wrote: »

I wouldn't worry about that. Ads are generated by keywords in posts.

I once wrote a blog post while I was on a cruise, and happened to refer in passing to homosexuality, to this day I get lots of people find their way to my blog by googling about gay cruises. They must be mightily disappointed to find themselves reading my opinions on sociology, missiology and church history - but to date no-one has been so ungracious as to leave me any unkind comments.

oh so your a fag??

thats a joke by the way... hahaha well not really

PDN · 18-02-2010 1:35pm

grrrrrrrrrr wrote: »

oh so your a fag??

thats a joke by the way... hahaha well not really

Yes, and we all know that God hates cigarettes.

grrrrrrrrrr · 18-02-2010 1:38pm

PDN wrote: »

Yes, and we all know that God hates cigarettes.

no i was asking were you a homosexual?!?!

PDN · 18-02-2010 2:02pm

grrrrrrrrrr wrote: »

no i was asking were you a homosexual?!?!

I don't accept labels based on orientation. I think that our behaviour is what matters. But that's a bit of a whole other subject in itself.

A bit off topic, but in answer to your question, prior to my conversion from atheism to Christianity in 1981 I experienced sex with women (of my own free will and volition) and with men (not of my own free will or volition - i.e. child abuse). Then upon conversion I decided that the correct place for sexual activity was within marriage and so abstained until then.

I have been happily married to the same woman since 1986 and obviously chose the right one since I've never wanted to get involved with anyone else in that time, nor do I want or expect to be anything else but faithful and monogamous in the future.

grrrrrrrrrr · 18-02-2010 2:08pm

PDN wrote: »

I don't accept labels based on orientation. I think that our behaviour is what matters. But that's a bit of a whole other subject in itself.

A bit off topic, but in answer to your question, prior to my conversion from atheism to Christianity in 1981 I experienced sex with women (of my own free will and volition) and with men (not of my own free will or volition - i.e. child abuse). Then upon conversion I decided that the correct place for sexual activity was within marriage and so abstained until then.

I have been happily married to the same woman since 1986 and obviously chose the right one since I've never wanted to get involved with anyone else in that time, nor do I want or expect to be anything else but faithful and monogamous in the future.

Well done fair play!!:D

grrrrrrrrrr · 18-02-2010 2:21pm

he's dead right

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LHqOG8p0Lkc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LHqOG8p0Lkc

ItisintheSTARS · 18-02-2010 2:33pm

prinz wrote: »

You know that s**t you don't think has anything to do with spirituality?..... that's Catholicism.

It is very fashoinable to say that it has nothing to do with spirituality,
but that is not true.
I will say that without the Catholic church we would not have evolved to the position in the West that we have .
The spititual path is many sided,and includes Organised religion,which brings together,and disciplines during the PROGRESS towards a higher position in the human condition.

It is like saying that Primary school has nothing to do with Education ,
or even secondary school.
You are living in the society ,which has been more or less CREATED by the Catholic Church.
Yes there is a new phase now,but abandon all that you have been given ,and it is like a Rocket without a launching pad,the rocket cannot take off .
The church is flawed ,and was never meant to any other way,because it is full of human beings.
However the Fundamental laws of the church have always been true,while
many mistakes,even crimes have been made by people who say they are Catholics.
Another thing is that Ireland is a special case ,for the Shadow of colonialism has never totally gone,and Ireland has never been compensated for the crimes done by that power.
The catholic church helped the Irish survive those times,but it must let go
of the power it gained at this time in the community,and concentrate on
it's spiritual,healing role,avoiding politics etc.
People are totally free to think for themselves,and to follow what ever god or believe they wish in whatever way they wish.
There are different levels of awareness,and the church had to cater for them all,so she took the path of helping the lowest ,but now she must enter into dialogue with the more advanced or she will fail.
Although intellectual rigour ,and knowledge are part ,and a neccessary one for the spiritual truth ,that cannnot be found until the heart submits,and the Church knew this ,and therein lies her strength.
Her weakness was to ignore the needs of the intellectually more advance and curious, in order to keep the 'sheep' in the fold,and so she lost the former.

But her role is not mainly intellectual anyway,for it is easier to Learn facts ,than to be quiet,and to submit to faith in God, much easier if you are well educated to reject 'faith',and that is the challenge of the individual ,not the church.

grrrrrrrrrr · 18-02-2010 2:40pm

ItisintheSTARS wrote: »

It is very fashoinable to say that it has nothing to do with spirituality,
but that is not true.
I will say that without the Catholic church we would not have evolved to the position in the West that we have .
The spititual path is many sided,and includes Organised religion,which brings together,and disciplines during the PROGRESS towards a higher position in the human condition.

It is like saying that Primary school has nothing to do with Education ,
or even secondary school.
You are living in the society ,which has been more or less CREATED by the Catholic Church.
Yes there is a new phase now,but abandon all that you have been given ,and it is like a Rocket without a launching pad,the rocket cannot take off .
The church is flawed ,and was never meant to any other way,because it is full of human beings.
However the Fundamental laws of the church have always been true,while
many mistakes,even crimes have been made by people who say they are Catholics.
Another thing is that Ireland is a special case ,for the Shadow of colonialism has never totally gone,and Ireland has never been compensated for the crimes done by that power.
The catholic church helped the Irish survive those times,but it must let go
of the power it gained at this time in the community,and concentrate on
it's spiritual,healing role,avoiding politics etc.
People are totally free to think for themselves,and to follow what ever god or believe they wish in whatever way they wish.
There are different levels of awareness,and the church had to cater for them all,so she took the path of helping the lowest ,but now she must enter into dialogue with the more advanced or she will fail.
Although intellectual rigour ,and knowledge are part ,and a neccessary one for the spiritual truth ,that cannnot be found until the heart submits,and the Church knew this ,and therein lies her strength.
Her weakness was to ignore the needs of the intellectually more advance and curious, in order to keep the 'sheep' in the fold,and so she lost the former.

But her role is not mainly intellectual anyway,for it is easier to Learn facts ,than to be quiet,and to submit to faith in God, much easier if you are well educated to reject 'faith',and that is the challenge of the individual ,not the church.

didnt read the entire post but i would say the world is a better place with the church than without it.

i see the comfort the church can bring to people, specially the elderly.
if i came across some ancient scripts in the morning than proved the church was completely and utterly wrong i do not think i would release them!!

the church has and does do a lot of good work. they havent given alot to education in this country despite the negative publicity with the abuse.

prinz · 18-02-2010 2:41pm

ItisintheSTARS wrote: »

It is very fashoinable to say that it has nothing to do with spirituality,
but that is not true....

I think we are 100% in agreement.

I wasn't trying to say that the RCC isn't spiritual, but rather how pointless it was to entitle a thread Am I Catholic?... and then describe it as sh*t..

grrrrrrrrrr · 18-02-2010 2:45pm

prinz wrote: »

I think we are 100% in agreement.

I wasn't trying to say that the RCC isn't spiritual, but rather how pointless it was to entitle a thread Am I Catholic?... and then describe it as sh*t..

i was just seeing what ye thought. i am a teen so wasnt sure like....

the world has changed in 2000 years but the church is still far behind and i dont see how listening to old stories will help with someones spirituality!

like we know christ did alot of fantastic things but theres no need to go through all of them and continually repeat them!!

prinz · 18-02-2010 2:48pm

grrrrrrrrrr wrote: »

if i came across some ancient scripts in the morning than proved the church was completely and utterly wrong i do not think i would release them!

Do you mean like this...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=suRzway95yI

There is a need to continually repeat them, until people start paying attention and living them that is!

ItisintheSTARS · 18-02-2010 2:48pm

PDN wrote: »

I don't accept labels based on orientation. I think that our behaviour is what matters. But that's a bit of a whole other subject in itself.

A bit off topic, but in answer to your question, prior to my conversion from atheism to Christianity in 1981 I experienced sex with women (of my own free will and volition) and with men (not of my own free will or volition - i.e. child abuse). Then upon conversion I decided that the correct place for sexual activity was within marriage and so abstained until then.

I have been happily married to the same woman since 1986 and obviously chose the right one since I've never wanted to get involved with anyone else in that time, nor do I want or expect to be anything else but faithful and monogamous in the future.

Very good post,and lucky you.
Perhaps ,since you sound kind and wise,you could say a little prayer for me. As an ex atheist too, I wish that my family would pray for me as I do for them ,but no , and I will not ask the priest because we are intellectually incompatible ?

ItisintheSTARS · 18-02-2010 2:51pm

grrrrrrrrrr wrote: »

didnt read the entire post but i would say the world is a better place with the church than without it.

i see the comfort the church can bring to people, specially the elderly.
if i came across some ancient scripts in the morning than proved the church was completely and utterly wrong i do not think i would release them!!

the church has and does do a lot of good work. they havent given alot to education in this country despite the negative publicity with the abuse.

Well I think you should read the whole post,please !

Ultravid · 18-02-2010 2:57pm

I live a spiritual life in my own way. Why go to church? It’s just filled with hypocrites anyway.
http://www.chastitysf.com/q_whychurch.htm

^ Might answer some of your questions.

If you study the writings of the early Church Fathers, you will find that their beliefs were Catholic, which is reassuring!

Ignatius of Antioch:

"I have no taste for corruptible food nor for the pleasures of this life. I desire the bread of God, which is the flesh of Jesus Christ, who was of the seed of David; and for drink I desire his blood, which is love incorruptible" (Letter to the Romans 7:3 [A.D. 110]).

"Take note of those who hold heterodox opinions on the grace of Jesus Christ which has come to us, and see how contrary their opinions are to the mind of God. . . . They abstain from the Eucharist and from prayer because they do not confess that the Eucharist is the flesh of our Savior Jesus Christ, flesh which suffered for our sins and which that Father, in his goodness, raised up again. They who deny the gift of God are perishing in their disputes" (Letter to the Smyrnaeans 6:2–7:1 [A.D. 110]).

About St Ignatius of Antioch: http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07644a.htm

More here about the Church Fathers:
http://www.cin.org/users/jgallegos/contents.htm

ItisintheSTARS · 18-02-2010 3:00pm

grrrrrrrrrr wrote: »

i was just seeing what ye thought. i am a teen so wasnt sure like....

the world has changed in 2000 years but the church is still far behind and i dont see how listening to old stories will help with someones spirituality!

like we know christ did alot of fantastic things but theres no need to go through all of them and continually repeat them!!

I agree .In this the church is wrong ,totally wrong .
There is so much more to God's universe ,and what a wonderful story it is ,but like a BAD teacher they kill off the interest in learning and the story.

Move on Catholic church .Have some Respect for your 'sheep'.
Some of them are ahead of you now.Enter the debate .You have done your job to launch the 'rocket',raise the hearts,now have 'faith' in God
and HIS place in His creation,and have 'faith in his people,for they are HIS ,not yours.

ItisintheSTARS · 18-02-2010 3:12pm

grrrrrrrrrr wrote: »

haha. sorry if i offended you but seriously what has god got to do with things that happened 2000 years ago! like wit human nature its blatently obvious that you can not preserve stories that long!

and then the churchs' view on evolution and the like.... f**k sake

and homosexuality?? all just sh*t really!!

another debate i supppose.

maybe i should talk to a priest!! ha

Read if you can the story of the Prodigal Son,especially that of Henri Nouwen, also 'What is so amazing about Grace'! by Phillip Yancey,and if you can find them, books by M.Scott Peck.
I am an emotional ,cultural Catholic,and if the church engages with me intellectually I might become a full one again .Meantime I am a a Christian,and believe totally in a Creator,for I see His laws in action
especially His love of us.
I love churches ,candles and hyms.

Ultravid · 18-02-2010 3:20pm

ItisintheSTARS wrote: »

I agree .In this the church is wrong ,totally wrong .
There is so much more to God's universe ,and what a wonderful story it is ,but like a BAD teacher they kill off the interest in learning and the story.

Move on Catholic church .Have some Respect for your 'sheep'.
Some of them are ahead of you now.Enter the debate .You have done your job to launch the 'rocket',raise the hearts,now have 'faith' in God
and HIS place in His creation,and have 'faith in his people,for they are HIS ,not yours.

I'm not sure having faith in a flock of sinners is a good idea. The shepherd leads the way, and it was Christ who appointed Peter, and his legitimate successors (cf. Isa. 22) as shepherd of the earthly flock, commanding him to feed his sheep (Jn. 21) and strengthen his brethren (Lk. 22:32). He also said, 'He who hears you, hears me,'' - this applies to the Church, which is the pillar and foundation of the truth (Timothy 3:15).

This is good: http://www.catholic.com/library/pillar.asp

It addresses, among other things, the four scriptural marks of the true Church: One Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church.

The Catholic Church, founded by Christ (cf. Mt 16:18) presents to the world the Gospel of Jesus Christ and marks out the narrow way of salvation, which Christ said, few find. What some people desire is an easy, false Gospel, which St Paul warned about in his letters:

2 Timothy 4:3-4

For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths

and here is what Jesus said:

Matthew 7

"Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.

Christ's promises in Matthew 16:18 means that the true Church will prevail, with its correct doctrines, essential for salvation. Of course there will always be enemies of the cross of Christ, and of the Church, who will seek to tear it down, but the key thing is, they will not ultimately succeed.

And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

This is the battle that is being played out now in Ireland, but also throughout the western world: we see some people trying to hijack and profit from the wretched abuse crisis in order to further their own agenda. Pretty despicable, but that is fallen human nature working in association with the Father of Lies.

This article goes into the issue: http://www.independent.ie/opinion/analysis/ignore-critics--church-must-be-true-to-teachings-2004600.html

What these people are ultimately looking for, is to destroy Christ's Church, in order to salve their stinging consciences.

grrrrrrrrrr · 18-02-2010 4:11pm

Ultravid wrote: »

I'm not sure having faith in a flock of sinners is a good idea. The shepherd leads the way, and it was Christ who appointed Peter, and his legitimate successors (cf. Isa. 22) as shepherd of the earthly flock, commanding him to feed his sheep (Jn. 21) and strengthen his brethren (Lk. 22:32). He also said, 'He who hears you, hears me,'' - this applies to the Church, which is the pillar and foundation of the truth (Timothy 3:15).

This is good: http://www.catholic.com/library/pillar.asp

It addresses, among other things, the four scriptural marks of the true Church: One Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church.

The Catholic Church, founded by Christ (cf. Mt 16:18) presents to the world the Gospel of Jesus Christ and marks out the narrow way of salvation, which Christ said, few find. What some people desire is an easy, false Gospel, which St Paul warned about in his letters:

and here is what Jesus said:

Christ's promises in Matthew 16:18 means that the true Church will prevail, with its correct doctrines, essential for salvation. Of course there will always be enemies of the cross of Christ, and of the Church, ho will seek to tear it down, but the key thing is, they will not ultimately succeed.

This is the battle that is being played out now in Ireland, but also throughout the western world: we see some people trying to hijack and profit from the wretched abuse crisis in order to further their own agenda. Pretty despicable, but that is fallen human nature working in association with the Father of Lies.

This article goes into the issue: http://www.independent.ie/opinion/analysis/ignore-critics--church-must-be-true-to-teachings-2004600.html

What these people are ultimately looking for, is to destroy Christ's Church, in order to salve their stinging consciences.

No offence but what sort of an american church are you involved in??

sorry im just always sceptical of people who can quote the bible....

PDN · 18-02-2010 4:16pm

grrrrrrrrrr wrote: »

sorry im just always sceptical of people who can quote the bible....

What the heck do you expect in the Christianity forum? That people won't be able to quote from the most widely read book in history that also happens to be the foundational text in Christianity?

grrrrrrrrrr · 18-02-2010 4:24pm

PDN wrote: »

What the heck do you expect in the Christianity forum? That people won't be able to quote from the most widely read book in history that also happens to be the foundational text in Christianity?

but sure its all just a joke really isnt it, heaven and hell and ever lasting life.....

ha joking(fr ted)

i do appreciate all yeer help tho but i just can get into it as much as ye...
i dono who that makes more intelligent but ye are entitled to yeer beliefs as i am mine.

threecheers for freedom of speech!! anyone else getting annoyed with me besides myself??

Ultravid · 18-02-2010 4:37pm

grrrrrrrrrr wrote: »

No offence but what sort of an american church are you involved in??

sorry im just always sceptical of people who can quote the bible....

Lol none taken.

I'm Catholic.

grrrrrrrrrr · 18-02-2010 4:40pm

Ultravid wrote: »

Lol none taken.

I'm a Northern Catholic.

this is what we need/want.... a scholar with a sense of humour....

although PDN i found your homosexual expirences quite humours too!

Fanny Cradock · 18-02-2010 4:47pm

grrrrrrrrrr wrote: »

although PDN i found your homosexual expirences quite humours too!

You really need to reread what PDN said.

grrrrrrrrrr · 18-02-2010 4:53pm

why?

Fanny Cradock · 18-02-2010 4:58pm

If you have to ask then it seems we are talking about two different posts. My bad.

grrrrrrrrrr · 18-02-2010 5:09pm

Fanny Cradock wrote: »

If you have to ask then it seems we are talking about two different posts. My bad.

its ok but supposably im not christian so i dont have to forgive you!!

i think i shud be made a mod of this forum!!

ItisintheSTARS · 18-02-2010 5:13pm

grrrrrrrrrr wrote: »

but sure its all just a joke really isnt it, heaven and hell and ever lasting life.....

ha joking(fr ted)

i do appreciate all yeer help tho but i just can get into it as much as ye...
i dono who that makes more intelligent but ye are entitled to yeer beliefs as i am mine.

threecheers for freedom of speech!! anyone else getting annoyed with me besides myself??

I don't know if you read .I hope so ,for knowledge is necessary.
God gave us 'big' brains ,and He wants us to use them.
Some of us have gone beyond those who need to quote .
I never ever thought that in a million years I would be where I am now .

Like you I am suspicious ,and avoid those who QUOTE scriptures,for they
forget that REVELATION is how God chooses to speak to those who followed him,and already learned,what Jesus had to say .
They are like people who insist that the Primary class is the ultimate one.
Neccessary ,but only part of an ongoing process.
Me,I am stuck between the Quoters,and the quoters,take your pick of them,believers or atheists.
I am a profound believer in Christ as Saviour ,but many christians
are the enemy of Christ. Instead of inspiring ,they create fear,like BAD teachers did in school.
I nearly got failed because my pupils LIKED their classes too much.
A dose of Medicine[poison] is neccessary they believe.

For Grrrrrrrrr.
We are living in a large Eternal Garden,and a garden has rules of growth ,for each plant .
We are the only truly concious ones,and we have to learn the rules
which allow us to grow to our full original design.
For this basis ,the church always gets it CORRECT [I am not quoting,I do not need to] ,although she gets it wrong for other things ,like HOW to lead people to this condition .
Good teachers accept that 'good teaching ,imaginative inspiration understanding,inclusion[except for extremes] is required to get the pupils
to advance.
The church puts the EXAM before the teaching .
If you are a teacher you do everything [or should ]to get your pupil to pass the exam,but you cannot Pass it for them.
Because the church has missed out on the idea of Reincarnation
she has to say that God created us when we were born,but we were created a long time ago and have come through many trials.
Our state of evolution [to GOD's design] will be judged,and if found wanting.?
Neither evolutionists ,nor the Catholics /Protestants get it right.
YOU Grrr are a very bright soul,an advanced one.
I am curious about when you were born etc ?
people to become

Ultravid · 18-02-2010 5:46pm

ItisintheSTARS wrote: »

I am a profound believer in Christ as Saviour ,but many christians
are the enemy of Christ. Instead of inspiring ,they create fear,like BAD teachers did in school.
I nearly got failed because my pupils LIKED their classes too much.
A dose of Medicine[poison] is neccessary they believe.

We are the only truly concious ones,and we have to learn the rules
which allow us to grow to our full original design.
For this basis ,the church always gets it CORRECT [I am not quoting,I do not need to] ,although she gets it wrong for other things ,like HOW to lead people to this condition .

Because the church has missed out on the idea of Reincarnation
she has to say that God created us when we were born,but we were created a long time ago and have come through many trials.

I am curious about when you were born etc ?
people to become

You have quoted a mix of new age, gnostic, and heretical beliefs.

The Church has rejected reincarnation from the founding of the Church up to the present day.

Additionally, Jesus spoke many times about hell, as a loving warning, not to scare us for the sake of it.

I echo the sentiments of Basil the Great in regard to your post:

"[A]void the nonsense of those arrogant philosophers who do not blush to liken their soul to that of a dog, who say that they have themselves formerly been women, shrubs, or fish. Have they ever been fish? I do not know, but I do not fear to affirm that in their writings they show less sense than fish" (The Six Days’ Work 8:2 [A.D. 393]).

Am Christian/Catholic?? Opinions?

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