What's with the snobbery?

Sharkface

Don't normally post on the net but regularly check out cycling forums and the like to see if there's anything of interest. To be honest the tone I find, particularly on here, is that of closet snobbery, something I am increasingly witnessing among the cycling fraternity on our roads. I commute to and from work in none too comfortable/practical clothes on a Carrera hybrid. 17kms each way gives me a great workout 5 times per week. On the weekends or on days off and holidays I take my Cannondale Synapse out and rack up some serious mileage. It is amazing the differences I have witnessed in fellow cyclists' attitudes towards me depending on the bike I am using. Lycrad up (is that a word?!) roadies don't give me the time of day, even if I acknowledge them, when on my Carrera. In fact it'd be safe to say some some seem to look down their noses at anyone not decked out in the 'trendiest' gear and on a semi decent (and expensive) road bike. The opposite occurs with the Cannondale and fellow 'roadies' not only acknowledge my presence but even engage me in conversation. In fact at times I can sometimes sense the envy and resentment of other roadies on 'lesser' bikes. I find it all a bit dispiriting and potentially off putting to cycling debutantes. I'm not sure when such a supposed hierarchy became so engrained in the Irish cycling world, probably during the material excess of the Celtic Tiger era, but it is nonetheless nonsensical and those paying lip service to it should get a grip...life is just too short for such frivolity.:mad:

abcdggs

23. One shall NEVER, under any circumstances, acknowledge the presence of a cyclist riding a bike costing less than 2000€ in ANY public place. This may be severely detrimental to one’s image. If such a situation cannot be helped, it is CRITICAL that the Euro Cyclist regard his “acquaintance” with a patrician mixture of disdain and SEVERE condescension.

God don't you know your euro rules, ptsch...

Chips Lovell

DirkVoodoo

I wonder about the fragile little petals that seem to be out on the roads. Are people really so upset because some random person doesn't stop, turn around, follow them up the road before saying "Hi, I saw you wave at me and just wanted to return the greeting. I know that some people are far too concerned with their own cycling to be worried about all the other people out and how sensitive we all really are under this thin veil of lycra and chamois cream, but not me".

Come on!

Lumen

Mmmm, debutantes.

DirkVoodoo

Lumen wrote: »

Mmmm, debutantes.

Mmmm indeed:

abcdggs

was gonna post a picture myself but thought it might be a bit too much on the nose

Doctor Bob

I have zero experience of road racing, so I can't comment, but I can genuinely say that this is one of the least affected, snobbish or cliquish places I've found on the internet, bike-related or otherwise (and leaving aside the generally tongue-in-cheek Euro banter obviously!). I'm often a bit taken aback by the decency of many of the regulars on here when a noob posts the same query for the umpteenth time.

RobFowl

JOHN CLEESE: I look down on him (indicates Barker) because I am upper class. BARKER: I look up to him (Cleese) because he is upper class. But I look down on him (Corbett) because he is lower class. I am middle class CORBETT: I know my place. I look up to them both. But I don't look up to him (Barker) as much as I look up to him (Cleese), because he has got innate breeding.
CLEESE: I have got innate breeding, but I have not got any money. So sometimes I look up (bends knees) to him (Barker).
BARKER: I still look up to him (Cleese) because although I have money, I am vulgar. But I am not as vulgar as him (Corbett) so I still look down on him (Corbett).
CORBETT: I know my place. I look up to them both. But while I am poor, I am honest, industrious and trustworthy. Had I the inclination, I could look down on them. But I don't.
BARKER: We all know our place, but what do we get out of it?
CLEESE: I get a feeling of superiority over them.
BARKER: I get a feeling of inferiority from him, (Cleese), but a feeling of superiority over him (Corbett).
CORBETT: I get a pain in the back of my neck.

Canis Lupus

lol.... You're on a hybrid you're just a commuter.

You're on the Cannondale and you're someone who potentially is into cycling.

It's hardly rocket science really.

Diarmuid

Sharkface wrote: »

Don't normally post on the net but regularly check out cycling forums and the like to see if there's anything of interest. To be honest the tone I find, particularly on here, is that of closet snobbery,

You're in for a rude awakening if you ever browse some other forums.

DirkVoodoo

Doctor Bob wrote: »

I have zero experience of road racing, so I can't comment, but I can genuinely say that this is one of the least affected, snobbish or cliquish places I've found on the internet, bike-related or otherwise (and leaving aside the generally tongue-in-cheek Euro banter obviously!). I'm often a bit taken aback by the decency of many of the regulars on here when a noob posts the same query for the umpteenth time.

I think some people just don't get it. If it were all true then I would be showing up in all white, spouting Italian and refusing to talk to anyone on here. I for one can't understand how someone who is making their first post, hasn't contributed yet or been on a spin or met anyone at any of the sportives decides to have a pop at the "snobbery" that is obviously running wild around here.

These type of posts are becoming more common, when did people take the internets so seriously???

Doctor Bob

Canis Lupus wrote: »

lol.... You're on a hybrid you're just a commuter.

You're on the Cannondale and you're someone who potentially is into cycling.

It's hardly rocket science really.

I commute on a Cannondale. A Cannondale WITH A HUB GEAR AND FLAT BARS!!

abcdggs

Rocket Science

Raam

I'll be riding my Cervelo tomorrow. Should I acknowledge anyone else on a bike?

DirkVoodoo

Raam wrote: »

I'll be riding my Cervelo tomorrow. Should I acknowledge anyone else on a bike?

They should be kneeling before you.

Doctor Bob

DirkVoodoo wrote: »

I for one can't understand how someone who is making their first post, hasn't contributed yet or been on a spin or met anyone at any of the sportives decides to have a pop at the "snobbery" that is obviously running wild around here.

And yet, what's the response? Playful banter. Boardsies ftw!

DirkVoodoo wrote: »

These type of posts are becoming more common, when did people take the internets so seriously???

Probably after they added some more tubes.

delta_bravo

To me a cyclist is a cyclist. Dont really judge people by their type of bike or clothing. As the wolfe tones said:

drogdub

Cant agree Sharkface. I am reletivly new to cycling and reguraly read this forum. There are alot of threads started by newbies and the number of replies and the genuine willingness of the regulars to give advise and encourage is fantastic. I have never detected any snobbery on this forum.

abcdggs

drogdub wrote: »

Cant agree Sharkface. I am reletivly new to cycling and reguraly read this forum. There are alot of threads started by newbies and the number of replies and the genuine willingness of the regulars to give advise and encourage is fantastic. I have never detected any snobbery on this forum.

less than a hundered posts, i fart in your generally direction!

Captain Havoc

I've met a good few boardsies out on the road (and I live in the sticks), don't see the snobbery here at all.

projectmayhem

Nope, I'm a recent cycling convert. All I do is commute on my lovely trek 7.3fx (which I bought after favourable reviews here and a good price online) and not once have I come across snobbery. I've had lovely conversations with cyclists on the road, regardless of the bikes. Sure we all hate the same thing - taxi's and buses that insist on cutting you off...

Also, a good example of snobbery & lack thereof might be the mockler thread

Lumen

Hold on chaps. Re-read the OP.

Sharkface didn't say there was snobbery on this forum, he said he'd experienced "snobbery" when out on the road, in the form of different reactions to him depending on whether he was riding his commuter hybrid or race bike.

This is hardly surprising, and I wouldn't even call it snobbery - people identify more strongly with people doing the same thing. There are certain models of car whose drivers wave at each other.

Do you not remember the social lessons of Sesame Street? "One of these kids is doing his own thing, he should be ashamed and join the rest". Or at least I think that's how the song went.

Doctor Bob

Well, s/he mentioned both...

Sharkface wrote: »

the tone I find, particularly on here, is that of closet snobbery, something I am increasingly witnessing among the cycling fraternity on our roads.

Lumen

Doctor Bob wrote: »

Well, s/he mentioned both...

Oh yeah. As you were.

I'm a bit perplexed by how it's possible to demonstrate "closet snobbery" on an internet forum. Is the forum the closet? Or is it the snobbery of one's closet? I have to say my cycling closet is looking pretty fantastic now. Kaiku Season is surely upon us soon.

Anyway, I'm thinking of having a rear extension built on my house in the shape of a giant nose, with an uplit glass orb placed on top in which I'll set up my turbo. I can then pedal away whilst looking down my nose, looking down my nose. This should help me simultanously work towards my goals in the areas of snobbery, narcissism, and power development.

Chips Lovell

Sharkface wrote: »

The opposite occurs with the Cannondale and fellow 'roadies' not only acknowledge my presence but even engage me in conversation. In fact at times I can sometimes sense the envy and resentment of other roadies on 'lesser' bikes.

The OP is getting very carried away with themselves for someone who is on a Cannondale Synapse:

The ultra-comfortable Synapse features relaxed geometry...

Raam

Today I went out of my way to find people who I could ignore.

iregk

I'm not sure the OP has looked around too many forums on this site. Check out the soccer forum then come back here and say that this is full of snobbery. You can't say hello on the soccer forum without getting the head taken off you.

blorg

hello

runs and hides

lukester

There's an old lady on a creaky beige Triumph 20 and totally un-euro furry boots that I pass on my commute each morning. Normally I scowl at her but today I gave a big happy wave. She didn't wave back, WTF is her problem??

tunney

Sharkface wrote: »

Don't normally post on the net but regularly check out cycling forums and the like to see if there's anything of interest. To be honest the tone I find, particularly on here, is that of closet snobbery, something I am increasingly witnessing among the cycling fraternity on our roads. I commute to and from work in none too comfortable/practical clothes on a Carrera hybrid. 17kms each way gives me a great workout 5 times per week. On the weekends or on days off and holidays I take my Cannondale Synapse out and rack up some serious mileage. It is amazing the differences I have witnessed in fellow cyclists' attitudes towards me depending on the bike I am using. Lycrad up (is that a word?!) roadies don't give me the time of day, even if I acknowledge them, when on my Carrera. In fact it'd be safe to say some some seem to look down their noses at anyone not decked out in the 'trendiest' gear and on a semi decent (and expensive) road bike. The opposite occurs with the Cannondale and fellow 'roadies' not only acknowledge my presence but even engage me in conversation. In fact at times I can sometimes sense the envy and resentment of other roadies on 'lesser' bikes. I find it all a bit dispiriting and potentially off putting to cycling debutantes. I'm not sure when such a supposed hierarchy became so engrained in the Irish cycling world, probably during the material excess of the Celtic Tiger era, but it is nonetheless nonsensical and those paying lip service to it should get a grip...life is just too short for such frivolity.:mad:

Never liked the Synapse.

Chips Lovell

lukester wrote: »

WTF is her problem??

She thinks you're some kind of pervert.

tunney

Sharkface wrote: »

Don't normally post on the net but regularly check out cycling forums and the like to see if there's anything of interest. To be honest the tone I find, particularly on here, is that of closet snobbery, something I am increasingly witnessing among the cycling fraternity on our roads. I commute to and from work in none too comfortable/practical clothes on a Carrera hybrid. 17kms each way gives me a great workout 5 times per week. On the weekends or on days off and holidays I take my Cannondale Synapse out and rack up some serious mileage. It is amazing the differences I have witnessed in fellow cyclists' attitudes towards me depending on the bike I am using. Lycrad up (is that a word?!) roadies don't give me the time of day, even if I acknowledge them, when on my Carrera. In fact it'd be safe to say some some seem to look down their noses at anyone not decked out in the 'trendiest' gear and on a semi decent (and expensive) road bike. The opposite occurs with the Cannondale and fellow 'roadies' not only acknowledge my presence but even engage me in conversation. In fact at times I can sometimes sense the envy and resentment of other roadies on 'lesser' bikes. I find it all a bit dispiriting and potentially off putting to cycling debutantes. I'm not sure when such a supposed hierarchy became so engrained in the Irish cycling world, probably during the material excess of the Celtic Tiger era, but it is nonetheless nonsensical and those paying lip service to it should get a grip...life is just too short for such frivolity.:mad:

In all honesty there is not enough snobbery on this board. Far too many things have been tolerated and allowed. I blame the mods.

lukester

el tonto wrote: »

She thinks you're some kind of pervert.

She did look a bit scared. Mind you, I was wearing white shorts, and it had been raining.

Raam

Yesterday I purchased some tall socks in order to comply with this ruling:

6. The socks of the Euro Cyclist shall extend to within two (2) cm. of the main bulge of the calf muscle, and shall never extend further than one (1) cm. past said primary calf muscle bulge. All socks SHALL BE WHITE in colour with prominent logo placement.

Jawgap

I wish I was good enough to be a cycling snob......

.....on the road my experience would be one of civility and friendliness. When I have crossed paths with the non-waving, non-friendly sort of cyclists they seem to be the more serious type who are pushing themselves while out training - so it should be understandable enought if they want to concentrate on training rather than chatting.

....on here 've found posters to be very free with advice and encouragement and it's a great learning experience (as well as good fun).



(btw has anyone noticed the number of bloody POBSOs who've suddenly come out of hibernation:))

petethedrummer

Sharkface wrote: »

To be honest the tone I find, particularly on here, is that of closet snobbery

You're in the wrong forum, you want the home furnishings or cabinet builders forum.

This is the closet I'm palping atm.

el tel

Everyone needs a little love is the message I get from Sharkface. But when are commuting this love can't be given out to all on sundry - chaos would reign. Can you imagine if everybody on a bike in Beijing gave the love to fellow riders? When you are out at the weekend getting in the lonely miles it's right that you should expect some love from fellow roadies, even on your Carerra. But when roadies see you rollin' on the weapon Synapse, they see you as the alpha-roadie and want to acknowledge you, talk to you,...be you. But don't expect ANYTHING from MTBers, even if you were on the Synapse. On anything more than an a minor route or unclassified road an MTBer will not glance your way. You'd need to be in a telephone box with one of them before they'd nod back at you.

petethedrummer

As an innocent country boy standing at the gate of my secondary school in Dundalk I said hello to an old woman who walked passed. All the townies laughed and asked why I said hello to someone I didn't know.

I knew I was going to have to harden up to survive in this concrete jungle so I punched her in the face the following day.

abcdggs

Dundalk... concrete jungle, lol

TinyExplosions

Sharkface wrote: »

To be honest the tone I find, particularly on here, is that of closet snobbery

Closet? CLOSET! There's noting hidden about the snobbery on here... we're better than everyone, and can look down on who we want, it is the internets after all

Doctor Bob wrote: »

but I can genuinely say that this is one of the least affected, snobbish or cliquish places I've found on the internet, bike-related or otherwise

Balls, we need to work harder to marginalize people

tomasrojo

Lumen wrote: »

This is hardly surprising, and I wouldn't even call it snobbery - people identify more strongly with people doing the same thing. There are certain models of car whose drivers wave at each other.

Like Larry David greeting other Prius-drivers on Curb Your Enthusiasm.

shapez

I'm riding my Cervelo to work. Everyone, including cars better move aside as I want a clear street to the workplace in the morning. Traffic lights, they better be green, I have a Cervelo............

kona

OP, Look at it from the otherside.

I dont wave at people cycling in normal clothes, because the chances are that:

1- They will think I'm a freak

2-They look like the ever increasing amount of ejits on bikes...I want to distance myself from these twats.

Infact , I dont really wave at anybody unless they look like waving back, or if they are waving at me.

However, when your around bikes long enough, you can pick out the people who are into it, even if they are not dressed in lycra

Also You are riding a Carrera, fine bicycle for the commute, and they are not expensive......

BUT

You bought in Halfords, thats a big No No to some of the snobs;)

tomasrojo

kona wrote: »

2-They look like the ever increasing amount of ejits on bikes...I want to distance myself from these twats.

I'd just like to put in a good word for the newcomers to cycle-commuting. They're more of a boon than a curse. Rather them cycling than driving. Most of them will stop doing the crazier things if they persist (I hope).

DirkVoodoo

tomasrojo wrote: »

I'd just like to put in a good word for the newcomers to cycle-commuting. They're more of a boon than a curse. Rather them cycling than driving. Most of them will stop doing the crazier things if they persist (I hope).

Yes I think a lot of cycling is trial and error. It reinforces the case for cyclist training schools, but I would like to think most people alter their behaviour after a few months. Of course, there will always be the guys who give the majority a bad name, but this is hardly a cycling exclusive phenomenon.

kona

tomasrojo wrote: »

I'd just like to put in a good word for the newcomers to cycle-commuting. They're more of a boon than a curse. Rather them cycling than driving. Most of them will stop doing the crazier things if they persist (I hope).

Well, I am being tarred with the same brush, they can do what they want but I dont want to pay for their stupidity. I mean if they are/were motorists, they KNOW what they are doing is wrong(A 3 year old would too for most of it, eg Red light running), so how will they change? when they get a smack of a Dublin Bus?

I had some Lorry driver have a go at me yesterday, why?

Becasue I turned left when there was a green light, this upset him as he was turning right onto the same road.

He said I should Indicate left, I asked why, as I had the green light? Either way It would have made no difference to him, he still HAD to wait if I was going straight on, or turning left.

I wonder If he would have beeped his horn and started arguing with the many motorists who have blown indicator bulbs, or the many who just cant be arsed indicating.

Personally I only indicate if I'm trying to either move out into traffic or turning right across traffic. Dont see the need to indicate left, seen as Im not turning across anybody.

blorg

kona wrote: »

I dont wave at people cycling in normal clothes, because the chances are that:

1- They will think I'm a freak

This really is the root case. People commuting to work in the suburbs don't tend to wave at each other. I certainly don't. Utility cycling we don't wave, with the exception that if I am pulling a trailer, I will wave to other people with the same trailer but not to someone with panniers, or for that matter someone hauling a guitar. If I am carrying shopping on aerobars, I will wave to other people carrying shopping on aerobars but no-one else (including people hauling trailers.) There is a peculiarity there that unites our experience.

On the other hand if the person looks like they are out for a cycle whether for training or leisure or just a bit of exercise and we are well out of the city I will wave. The point is they are out on the bike for the purpose of being out on the bike. I will certainly wave to (for example) a guy on a hybrid in a loose T-Shirt struggling up the Wicklow Gap.

As an experiment I waved at several cyclists this lunch time while on a ride out to Enniskerry. Most looked like commuters or utility cyclists in normal clothes although there were a few roadies I would (condescendingly) describe as being unlikely to be racers.

I was in full lycra maintaining a TT position on aerobars.

Some of them looked at me funny. None waved back.

Jawgap

tomasrojo wrote: »

I'd just like to put in a good word for the newcomers to cycle-commuting. They're more of a boon than a curse. Rather them cycling than driving. Most of them will stop doing the crazier things if they persist (I hope).

+1

I thought I was on holidays this morning - sunshine and lots of cylcists on the cycle path in Clontarf - felt very continental - then it started to snow......

niceonetom

blorg wrote: »

I was in full lycra maintaining a TT position on aerobars.

Some of them looked at me funny. None waved back.

They clearly assumed you were a triathlete. See how their derision makes sense now?

tomasrojo

blorg wrote: »

Utility cycling we don't wave, with the exception that if I am pulling a trailer, I will wave to other people with the same trailer but not to someone with panniers, or for that matter someone hauling a guitar.

Ah, you'd surely wave if you saw someone hauling a guitar in a bikehod cycling a Dawes Horizon?