Banks not lending money anymore.

ben101

Just thought i'd let people know of my experience dealing with Bank of ireland.
I was approved for 135000 euro switcher mortgage in september.Was moving but informed them in november that i was going to extend instead.Mortgage advisor said "no problem".
Had suveyor out,legal papers all in the pipeline.Was assured by bank of ireland in <snip> that everything was good.I was trying to contact them to arrange sorting out the insurance end ,last stage but found them very hard to contact.Had a builder ready to start,got a fantastic price,a good five figure sum less than other quotes.Bank finally got back to tell me they were reneging on their promise
.After many days of the bank manager and mortgage advisor fighting my case in head office,reason turns out to be since the budget, they deem public sector as a bad risk because of levy's etc.Irony is those levy's are being used to bail them out,because of my job (postal) they are classing me a public sector worker,even though we're semi-state.I pointed out my P60 was more this year but was ominously told"criteria has changed since the budget"
<snip>

Toots

I've removed the poll as it was pointless. Of course banks are now applying stricter lending criteria.

Also OP, please don't refer to specific branches on thread.

stepbar

ben101 wrote: »

Just thought i'd let people know of my experience dealing with Bank of ireland.
I was approved for 135000 euro switcher mortgage in september.Was moving but informed them in november that i was going to extend instead.Mortgage advisor said "no problem".
Had suveyor out,legal papers all in the pipeline.Was assured by bank of ireland in <snip> that everything was good.I was trying to contact them to arrange sorting out the insurance end ,last stage but found them very hard to contact.Had a builder ready to start,got a fantastic price,a good five figure sum less than other quotes.Bank finally got back to tell me they were reneging on their promise
.After many days of the bank manager and mortgage advisor fighting my case in head office,reason turns out to be since the budget, they deem public sector as a bad risk because of levy's etc.Irony is those levy's are being used to bail them out,because of my job (postal) they are classing me a public sector worker,even though we're semi-state.I pointed out my P60 was more this year but was ominously told"criteria has changed since the budget"
<snip>

So wait a minute....

You applied for a 135k mortgage, was approved.

Then decided to extend the house. Got a quote.

And then throught that because you were approved you'd get the rest anyhow?

I mean seriously is that what happened?


And BTW.... "Those levys" are being used to pay for your pension. But lets not get in the way of the truth. So please keep your emotion at the door, because it's got very little to do with the facts.

ben101

to toots.Why "of course they are stricter"?They claim they are not.My finances are better this year than last yet they granted me a loan in september ,then refused it later on ,despite not informing me.To be honest your bias sickens me and don't think you should have removed the poll.Bank of irelands negligence has cost me several thousands of euros and frankly verges on the illegal,my mortgage advisor told me they are taking this tact with everybody in the public sector which is totally immoral.She said they are disregarding most of their overtime.Well i'd like to meet the idiot that put me in that category as i'm NOT CIVIL SERVICE.MY JOB IS SEMI STATE!!!
MY PAY HAS INCREASED!!!MY NEW MORTGAGE WOULD BE LESS THAN MY CURRENT ONE,WHICH I HAVE NOT MISSED A PAYMENT FOR LAST TWELVE YEARS!!!
WHAT KIND OF IDIOTS MAKE THESE DECISIONS!!!!!
Remember toots,i have a letter from bank of ireland congratulating me and asking me when do i want the cheque.Not a nice way to treat the people that have bailed you out of trouble.:mad::mad::mad:

ben101

to stepbar-i've got a letter from bank of ireland asking when would i like the cheque.Would you like to see?If me or you dealt with our daily business like this ,we would be in prison.I didn't "get a quote",i was officially approved,smarta**.Of course i'm emotional, BOI'S amatuerism has cost me big money,REAL money and not to mention several months wasted.
Oh and by the way,if you believe these so called health levies are not just another tax to bail out the bank and government,tell me is there a special fund that these levies go into to help towards pensions?Didn't think so.

stepbar

stepbar wrote: »

So wait a minute....

You applied for a 135k mortgage, was approved.

Then decided to extend the house. Got a quote.

And then throught that because you were approved you'd get the rest anyhow?

I mean seriously is that what happened?

Approved?

I'll ask you again to either confirm or deny my version of your story.

stepbar

ben101 wrote: »

Oh and by the way,if you believe these so called health levies are not just another tax to bail out the bank and government,tell me is there a special fund that these levies go into to help towards pensions?Didn't think so.

It's called "Day to Day" expenditure, and I believe there's a difference of c20billion between what comes in and what goes out at the moment. So taking out the 11 odd billion that it cost to bail out Anglo and purchase "preference" shares in AIB / BOI, there's another 10billion that needs to be plugged.

Way off topic, but I thought I'd point that out before you go any further.

ben101

To toots ,you censored my post for inaccurate info.
The following was told to me by one of your own ,a BOI mortgage expert and i would like you to make sure it's NOT true before you edit it.New BOI criteria ,anybody deemed to be public sector will only have 25% of there overtime considered as income ,FACT.For example,25000 basic, 20000 OT=45000 MINUS 75% of 20000=30000.
I got hit with this rule,despite the fact that i'm not even officially public sector,very few postal workers have civil service status.I have proof of evey thing i claim if you wish to see it before you censor my post again.

ben101

stepbar wrote: »

Approved?

I'll ask you again to either confirm or deny my version of your story.

You obviously work for a bank so see nothing wrong in the way i was dealt with.I originally was approved for 135000,(asked if i wanted more),then i asked if i could change amount to 120000 to extend instead.Being a banker you might spot second amount is LOWER!!!Person in charge assured me that it would be no problem and even arranged the surveyor and gave me a number of a builder she knew.Rang her on several occasions to see what was happening but she just kept on saying that it was sorted.To be far to her they hadn't told her they had changed their minds and she kicked up with head office as did the bank manager.
My stories true.I'm NOT making it up for entertainment or shock value,i don't want to get into a personal slagging match as i've already had a pretty sh*t day.
I am not a financial expert so my lingo is not perfect.When i say approved i mean i had a written letter to say they were giving me 135000.I have went on several different bank sites tonight just to see and got provisional approval on all of them.I just can't think of the logic behind it,not even to come back with a lower offer.I can only surmise that they are not lending money ,fullstop.
If you or toots can explain,please do as neither i , the mortgage advisor nor the local bank manager can get a straight answer as to the thinking behind it.

stepbar

It would have been nice if you stated this from the start and not at post 8.

So it appears that instead of switching your mortgage (for 135k) you wanted to get an extra 120k in the form of an equity release (for an extension) and leave the existing mortgage where it is???

So in other words when all was done, your mortgage in TOTAL would have been 255k??



The fact I'm a banker is irrelivant to this. It would help if you stated the facts (which you're having a hard time doing) instead of heading off on an emotional rant that I can barely read.

Andymfinancial

ben101 wrote: »

Just thought i'd let people know of my experience dealing with Bank of ireland.
I was approved for 135000 euro switcher mortgage in september.Was moving but informed them in november that i was going to extend instead.Mortgage advisor said "no problem".
Had suveyor out,legal papers all in the pipeline.Was assured by bank of ireland in <snip> that everything was good.I was trying to contact them to arrange sorting out the insurance end ,last stage but found them very hard to contact.Had a builder ready to start,got a fantastic price,a good five figure sum less than other quotes.Bank finally got back to tell me they were reneging on their promise
.After many days of the bank manager and mortgage advisor fighting my case in head office,reason turns out to be since the budget, they deem public sector as a bad risk because of levy's etc.Irony is those levy's are being used to bail them out,because of my job (postal) they are classing me a public sector worker,even though we're semi-state.I pointed out my P60 was more this year but was ominously told"criteria has changed since the budget"
<snip>

Irrespective of what these bankers say the banks have backed off lending and are treating customers like sh1t. I have had several clients who who approved and then the bank changed the criteria and then withdrew the offer. The way the banks operate is a total disgrace, they are messing with peoples lives. I have virtually stopped offering mortgages because in a small town with lower incomes it is virtually impossible to get approval.

ben101

"Irrespective of what these bankers say the banks have backed off lending and are treating customers like sh1t. I have had several clients who who approved and then the bank changed the criteria and then withdrew the offer. The way the banks operate is a total disgrace, they are messing with peoples lives. I have virtually stopped offering mortgages because in a small town with lower incomes it is virtually impossible to get approval"
Thanks andy,finally someone who is honest.
As you can see from previous post some bankers don't see anything wrong treating people with contempt and derision.
BOI are in the process of running a big campaign to entice new customers,probably costing several million, yet have cut a large chunk of the market out of the equation by introducing draconian measures in choosing if you qualify or not.What's the point?
Behaving like this only helps grinds the economy down further.They were bailed out for a reason,if they are not going to do play their part ,well then maybe next time they should be allowed go under.:mad::mad::mad::mad:

Andymfinancial

ben101 wrote: »

"Irrespective of what these bankers say the banks have backed off lending and are treating customers like sh1t. I have had several clients who who approved and then the bank changed the criteria and then withdrew the offer. The way the banks operate is a total disgrace, they are messing with peoples lives. I have virtually stopped offering mortgages because in a small town with lower incomes it is virtually impossible to get approval"
Thanks andy,finally someone who is honest.
As you can see from previous post some bankers don't see anything wrong treating people with contempt and derision.
BOI are in the process of running a big campaign to entice new customers,probably costing several million, yet have cut a large chunk of the market out of the equation by introducing draconian measures in choosing if you qualify or not.What's the point?
Behaving like this only helps grinds the economy down further.They were bailed out for a reason,if they are not going to do play their part ,well then maybe next time they should be allowed go under.:mad::mad::mad::mad:

We are also an auctioneers and there are plenty of first time buyers viewing property. We are busier than we have been for 18mths with the viewings, but they simply cannot get the mortgages and yes as you say this is grinding the country to a halt. This is fact - out of the past 12 first time buyers who tried to get a mortgage to buy a house from us 9 were refused. Now dont get me wrong some shouldnt have been given a mortgage but there were several who should have. If someone is refused a mortgage on a new house the amount of people effected is massive - the auctioneer, the builder, the revenue, the furniture store, the carpet store the list goes on and on. And regards the bail out Anglo should have been allowed to go under as a warning to all banks. At least 10-20 billion is needed to sort the problem out. The govts bailout was pocket money.

ben101

stepbar
"So it appears that instead of switching your mortgage (for 135k) you wanted to get an extra 120k in the form of an equity release (for an extension) and leave the existing mortgage where it is??
So in other words when all was done, your mortgage in TOTAL would have been 255k??"
As stated.
"I originally was approved for 135000,(asked if i wanted more),then i asked if i could change amount to 120000"

my mortgage would have been 120000 ,property is worth more than twice that.If i get refused with a steady job and 130000 equity,god help some poor young couple starting out looking for 300000

jimmyfixit

I have been with the Bank of Ireland 22 years and had a number of loans from them. The last of which I paid up this month (€215 a month for five years €10,000). I reapplied for another €10000 to get work done to the house. Shot down in flames, but they are happy to let me have a 10 grand limit on my credit card which I rarely use. Is it worth appealing the decision?

My situation has changed a little in the last year. Just seems crazy
can having a loan refused affect your credit rating?

pavb2

I can sympathise had similar problem with BOI sanctioned for business loan and they withdrew at last minute .(details on older thread)

Cost me €15K in architects & solicitors fees

Toots

Ben 101, I don't think any banks are denying that their lending criteria has gotten stricter. They are most definitely being more conservative, but they are still lending (well some are and some aren't).

In addition, the part of your post which I removed (other than the name of the branch you dealt with) was a little rant at the end about bailing out the banks, which has no relevance to the situation, and has no place on this thread.

Now, I realise that this is a sensitive subject for you, and you are obviously upset, however I must ask you to tone it down with you posts. Name calling, etc is not permitted. If you have a problem with a post, use the 'Report Post' function and a moderator will have a look at it.

Andymfinancial, please refrain from using bad language on thread, even if you have asterixed out /substituted numbers for some of the letters. Boards has an inbuilt swear filter for a reason.

Also, suggestions that various banks should have been/ should be allowed to go under will not be tolerated on this forum. This is my only warning on the matter, and if it is suggested again, I will be issuing bans and infractions.

stepbar

OK, the OP PM'ed me.

The amount he was looking for was 120k in TOTAL (c51k to take over his home loan and the balance to extend).

Seriously OP, you would have removed a lot of confusion if you had split this out in the first place.

BTW... I hadn't even started to comment on how you were being dealt with (or not), so to bring that into the equation is mindblowing to say the least.

ben101

sorry stepbar if i was unclear, but the last few days have been head melting.
Have learned of several other cases same as mine but will refrain from going into details as i have been given an infraction and don't want to see this post closed as i feel its important.
All i'll add is that if there is any one else in the same boat they should contact the financial regulator who will guide them through the proper procedure.They have been very helpful.
This is what i've done and will update this post of my progress

ben101

Sorry toots
but i was told by the mortgage advisor herself the change in criteria is to do with wages being lower because of levys ,taxes which the tax payer has been burdened with in the first part,,,a situation that the banks had a large part in creating which is why i referred to it.
Irony is that they are telling me that they are refusing on the grounds of diminished income ,yet my p60 is higher than last year?!?!
Just seems a bit ludicrous to the layman.

stepbar

Ok.

I'm going to clarify one thing for people.

If you're approved for a loan (of any kind) an offer letter is produced. If you read the offer letter, it usually states that the offer is valid for a period of X days after which time the offer lapses and is withdrawn.

Now before anyone else comments on how such and such a loan offer was withdrawn, please think back and ask yourself "Did the offer lapse?"

A bank has the right to set it's own credit policy. If credit policy changes after an offer letter lapses then it's tough luck really. I keep repeating the bank is not a charity, it is entitled to make a profit.

ben101

I get what your saying ,stepbar,but my point is despite several attempts from the local bank staff,they failed to hear anything back from head office for nearly THREE MONTHS!!!
What gives?
They left my details on a desk somewhere gathering dust for so long it went out of date and i've lost out.
To me thats negligence.

Drivebybanjo

I share the dismay. I was contacted by Allied Irish Bank directly on several ocassions and asked if there was any way they could help me. "Hello sir, is there any way that we can help you at all, would you like information on re-mortgaging, releasing equity in your property etc. etc.". I said OK and the caller arranged for a mortgage advisor to call me back the following Saturday.

I assume this call came on foot of my having saved over €1,300 consistently each month for the previous 12 months. I also had paid off a 3-year loan 1 year early. Neither I nor my wife have any other debts. No car loans or credit card debt.

My wife and I spent an over half an hour on the phone and were advised that we could get a loan of up to 300k euro. I applied for 240k. My current mortgage is 173k. I am nowhere near being in negative equity. The additional money was required to extend the house and would have added further value to the property.

I spent some time putting together all the required details on foot of a written request from the bank. I received a letter stating that I had been refused and that a reason could not be provided. Remember, they contacted me! My repayments would have been less than the amount I have consistently saved with them each month for the last year, while at the same time paying installments to my existing mortgage provider. This is incredible.

And yes, I work for the public sector. I have done for the last 11 years. From reading the previous posts, it seems clear to me now that the banks consider public sector employees to be high risk (this was hinted at when I phoned AIB to complain). You would have imagined, listening to the government and the media in recent times, that a permanent public-sector job meant that we are over-paid fat-cats enjoying extraordinary levels of pay and entitlements. Surely not! if it the case that we cannot get approval for what is, for all intents and purposes, a very small mortgage in this day and age.

And before I am reprimended for allegedly going off the point - this is very much part of the point and the previous poster is correct to bring it up. Part of the argument here is the failure of the banks to determine risk and to allow credit to flow freely. It is correct to point out that the public sector has been shafted for the sake of the banks, as have many other sectors in this society.

Remember, the bank contacted me. Central operations, not local. They were aware of all my details from the very first call-back. It is quite clear that there is now an embargo on the release of credit in this country, despite the banks being propped up by our taxes (and our childrens taxes when they come of age). I have no faith that this will change. There is no willingness on the part of government to challenge the system. Western economics works on boom-bust-boom-bust cycles. Nothing will be learned from it this time around either.

As part of my job I meet businesses of every size and from every sector in the economy - dozens every month. The lack of available credit is no different here and anyone who says otherwise is deluded.

Domscard

Agree 100% with OP and previous poster - this is not the first time I've heard these accounts recently. It's really difficult not to feel cynical about the motives involved - force people to wait (despite excellent credit ratings) and shaft them with higher interest rates/charges later on?

Toots

Domscard wrote: »

Agree 100% with OP and previous poster - this is not the first time I've heard these accounts recently. It's really difficult not to feel cynical about the motives involved - force people to wait (despite excellent credit ratings) and shaft them with higher interest rates/charges later on?

Please don't post speculative material like that without something concrete to back it up. There is a Conspiracy Theories forum if you would like to discuss this idea further.

stepbar

ben101 wrote: »

I get what your saying ,stepbar,but my point is despite several attempts from the local bank staff,they failed to hear anything back from head office for nearly THREE MONTHS!!!
What gives?
They left my details on a desk somewhere gathering dust for so long it went out of date and i've lost out.
To me thats negligence.

Hold on.....

You said you were approved. Yes?

Typical mortgage approval lasts for somewhere between 30 - 60 days. If you sign an offer letter and return same within this period, it has to be honoured (within reason - e.g. you don't loose your job within this period or the information submitted is wildly different from what was submitted in the application).

And again I find it hard to believe that BOIMB did not return a decision for 3 months. Knowing the system these mortgages go up on, communication by a form of email.

Did you actually sign the offer letter and return it?

ben101

Yes ,stepbar,crossed all the t's and dotted all the i's.That is why i was so angry in previous posts so don't take it personally.
You are dead right ,they should have got back to me in 60 days,but they didn't,thats my whole point of why i wasn't too happy.I could have been looking elsewhere but they have wasted 3 months of my life ,so yeah,i am annoyed.
I will say ,though,that the local mortgage advisor and bank manager of BOI have been great and were just as disgusted as i was.

jimoc

ben101 wrote: »

To toots ,you censored my post for inaccurate info.
The following was told to me by one of your own ,a BOI mortgage expert and i would like you to make sure it's NOT true before you edit it.New BOI criteria ,anybody deemed to be public sector will only have 25% of there overtime considered as income ,FACT.For example,25000 basic, 20000 OT=45000 MINUS 75% of 20000=30000.
I got hit with this rule,despite the fact that i'm not even officially public sector,very few postal workers have civil service status.I have proof of evey thing i claim if you wish to see it before you censor my post again.

This particular post caught my eye because of the enormous overtime figure being quoted in comparision to teh basic salary.
Are these the actual figures or just illustrative for the sake of the argument?
I don't know about anyone else's situation but when I went looking for my mortgage (over 10 years ago) overtime was completely ignored in the income calculation, even though at the time I had been getting about 10% extra per month on OT. At the time I questioned it and was told that overtime is never guaranteed income and so was not considered.
It looks now as if banks are moving back to that sort of calculation, which does suck if it affects but does make sense if you look at it a bit objectively.

ben101

To jimoc,no ,it's just an example.But don't forget if you have a low basic but rely on allowances and OT ,this will affect you badly,even if its guaranteed.
Some jobs have allowances built in ,night duty etc. and these will be mostly disregarded.

stepbar

ben101 wrote: »

Yes ,stepbar,crossed all the t's and dotted all the i's.That is why i was so angry in previous posts so don't take it personally.
You are dead right ,they should have got back to me in 60 days,but they didn't,thats my whole point of why i wasn't too happy.I could have been looking elsewhere but they have wasted 3 months of my life ,so yeah,i am annoyed.
I will say ,though,that the local mortgage advisor and bank manager of BOI have been great and were just as disgusted as i was.

Ok, we've established now that you signed an offer letter. Now, I agree that it was **** that the bank withdrew the offer, perhaps not legal? But I'm sure there's a term in there covering your situation off. Do I agree with it? No. The day you returned the offer letter should have started the ball rolling. I'm curious why this did not happen? Have you appealed the decision yet? Because that's the first thing I would do. And furthermore request the details of any correspondance between BOIMB and the branch. Best do this by formal letter and wait for a final letter. If you're still unhappy go to the ombudsman.

Domscard

Toots* wrote: »

Please don't post speculative material like that without something concrete to back it up. There is a Conspiracy Theories forum if you would like to discuss this idea further.

I know of 2 cases locally where banks have refused to say why the person has been refused, despite an initial affirmative response only a few WEEKS prior to that and no material change in circumstances. There is nothing else that one can do in this situation except speculate - I placed a question mark in my post in case anyone does know. I assume that's why we're posting here. If I or anyone else had a concrete reason I would post it - but no one appears to have any reasonable explanation

ben101

To stepbar
Appealed and refused and have just today lodged a formal complaint to head office over the phone and written complaint will be sent tomorrow by reg post.
I'm pretty much following the advice given to me by the financial regulator number i rang which has been great because i'm fairly new when it comes to this kind of stuff.

stepbar

ben101 wrote: »

To stepbar
Appealed and refused and have just today lodged a formal complaint to head office over the phone and written complaint will be sent tomorrow by reg post.
I'm pretty much following the advice given to me by the financial regulator number i rang which has been great because i'm fairly new when it comes to this kind of stuff.

You must wait for a formal resolution letter and then proceed to the ombudsman. He will take it from there. The fin reg has got nothing got to do with this. Let us know how you get on, I'd be interested in the final resolution.

Toots

ben101 wrote: »

To stepbar
Appealed and refused and have just today lodged a formal complaint to head office over the phone and written complaint will be sent tomorrow by reg post.
I'm pretty much following the advice given to me by the financial regulator number i rang which has been great because i'm fairly new when it comes to this kind of stuff.

This is probably the best thing you can do at the moment. My advice would be from now on make sure all communication on the matter is in writing. Keep copies of everything, and if someone from head office phones you, ask them to follow it up with a letter. (if it's someone from customer care, they'll do this anyway, but it's always good to ask just to make sure) This way if you do need to get the regulator to investigate, you'll have records of all the communication between you and the bank.

Andymfinancial

Also, suggestions that various banks should have been/ should be allowed to go under will not be tolerated on this forum. This is my only warning on the matter, and if it is suggested again, I will be issuing bans and infractions.[/QUOTE]

Toots, is there any point in being involved in this website if you cannot express opinions? There are several financial reasons why this government would have been better off by letting Anglo fall and it is a genuine discussion topic. Every time someone says something that is slighly anti bank they get shot down by you.

ben101

Andymfinancial wrote: »

Toots, is there any point in being involved in this website if you cannot express opinions? There are several financial reasons why this government would have been better off by letting Anglo fall and it is a genuine discussion topic. Every time someone says something that is slighly anti bank they get shot down by you.

Couldn't agree with you more ,andy.I made the point that in the states many banks were left to go under as it was seen as healthier in the long run.
I do accept that being a small country we would have to think carefully about such measures.
But theres no doubt in my mind that if a lot of our banks were based in america they wouldn't be here now.
I find it strange that this topic seems to be banned.

Toots

Andy & Ben, please read the charter in relation to arguing with moderator instructions on-thread. If you do not agree with the instruction, then use the PM function to contact me or one of the Category Moderators.

ben101

stepbar
"The fin reg has got nothing got to do with this"
technically no but my experrience with talking to them over the phone is that if you're a complete beginner ,they will point you in the right direction and give you the correct phone numbers and website that will take you through the complaints procedure ,step by step.

ben101

Just applied online and was approved provisionally
(WITHOUT using wives p60)
for over 114000.Now why the hell didn't the muppet that refused 120000 and caused so much grief come back with that and i could of worked with it?!?
BOI may be advertising that they want new customers but it sure doesn't seem that way in reality.

Domscard

ben101 wrote: »

Just applied online and was approved provisionally
(WITHOUT using wives p60)
for over 114000.Now why the hell didn't the muppet that refused 120000 and caused so much grief come back with that and i could of worked with it?!?
BOI may be advertising that they want new customers but it sure doesn't seem that way in reality.

Very interested to see how this pans out ben101 - if you really do end up with an actual loan, please let us know. As I said before, I've known a couple of people whose 'approval' never materialised into a loan - with no reason given.

ben101

Interesting development in the news yesterday,government have taken 16% stake in BOI as from monday.
Seeing that BOI are semi-state now,does this mean that there own workers will face difficulties procurring loans from their own bank as i have as a semi-state worker.As i was informed on the phone, criteria for lending to public sector and semi-state workers has changed because of the rocky economy.

keary79

im sorry to hear about your bad experience with a bank... hope things work out. maybe you could sue the bank.

but i work in an irish bank not the one in this thread and i know. that there is also alot of debts with the workers like other people out there.
possibly due to lax lending in the past.
but like every other customer its been tightened up.

also dont forget in the next few months or sometime this year. alot of us due to no fault of our own or work. will possibly be losing our jobs.

but going to the financial regulator was the right thing possibly the next stage will be to go to the ombusman