Denman - Aon

Shane732 · 13-02-2010 3:16pm #1

I'm absolutely gutted Denman didn't get round today, it's really such a pity.

No doubt the questions will start as to whether McCoy is the right man for Denman. Hard to believe that the 14 time champion jockey could not be the right man for any horse.

Personally I think McCoy was asking him for too much the majority of the way round. Walsh describes Denman's jumping as being bombproof, this isn't quite accurate. My opinion would be that Denman gives enough at a jump without being asked for a big one. McCoy should have let him do it himself around the back straight. McCoy should be riding him out between now and Gold Cup day.

That said I'm not entirely sure what was under McCoy going around the home turn. Niche Market was back upsides him as he made the mistake. The second mistake can be forgiven as all confidence had gone at the fence before. I'd be interested to find out what other people think of the way Denman was travelling coming into the straight.

I think someone like Paul Carberry would be perfect on Denman - just let him do his thing through the jumps and pick the pace up a bit between the fences about a mile from home and gallop them into the ground.

He just isn't the same horse as he was in the 2008 Gold Cup. I'm gutted!

Edit:

As anyone watching Channel 4 will know McCoy has just said that he was happy with how Denman traveled the whole way round but he was disappointed that Niche Market was so close to him coming round the home turn.

Maybe he's just lost 5th gear?

cson · 13-02-2010 3:34pm

Shane732 wrote: »

I think someone like Paul Carberry would be perfect on Denman - just let him do his thing through the jumps and pick the pace up a bit between the fences about a mile from home and gallop them into the ground.

Lol.

Like he did on Harchibald in Cheltenham?

mdwexford · 13-02-2010 3:37pm

cson wrote: »

Lol.

Like he did on Harchibald in Cheltenham?

lol, you thought that was a bad ride?

fintonie · 13-02-2010 3:39pm

interesting once again he gets the pick of the field and fails who was the winning jockey

pokergraduate · 13-02-2010 3:40pm

so disappointing

cson · 13-02-2010 3:48pm

mdwexford wrote: »

lol, you thought that was a bad ride?

He's a showman, I'd liked to have seen Ruby on Harchi, none of this sitting on the bridle ****e.

Shane732 · 13-02-2010 3:54pm

cson wrote: »

Lol.

Like he did on Harchibald in Cheltenham?

Jesus is that the worst Carberry ride you could pick? Do you know anything about Harchibald?

Most jockeys would regard Paul as being every bit as good as Ruby and Tony.

Your comment is ridiculous.

UrbanSea · 13-02-2010 4:49pm

Don't really think it was McCoy's fault,I think he still would have won when Niche Market was coming back up to him,Denman still hadn't really been pushed and Niche Market was going near flat out.
I bet there would be uproar over the jockey's performance if it was Sam Thomas though.
I was never really the biggest fan of Sam,but I think of late he has really improved. Had a really good win today and two yesterday.

cson · 13-02-2010 5:21pm

Shane732 wrote: »

Jesus is that the worst Carberry ride you could pick? Do you know anything about Harchibald?

Most jockeys would regard Paul as being every bit as good as Ruby and Tony.

Your comment is ridiculous.

If I owned Denman, Paul Carberry would be far from my list of possible jockeys to ride him.

Shane732 · 13-02-2010 5:25pm

greetings wrote: »

Don't really think it was McCoy's fault,I think he still would have won when Niche Market was coming back up to him,Denman still hadn't really been pushed and Niche Market was going near flat out.
I bet there would be uproar over the jockey's performance if it was Sam Thomas though.
I was never really the biggest fan of Sam,but I think of late he has really improved. Had a really good win today and two yesterday.

I totally agree with you if Sam had been on Denman today and fallen off there would have been uproar. Brilliant winner today for Sam.

Shane732 · 13-02-2010 5:26pm

cson wrote: »

If I owned Denman, Paul Carberry would be far from my list of possible jockeys to ride him.

That's fair enough.

He would be at the top of my list but unfortunately I don't have the pleasure of owning Denman!

RichieLawlor · 13-02-2010 6:07pm

cson wrote: »

Lol.

Like he did on Harchibald in Cheltenham?

Yes Anyone would have won the champion on Harci that year

lol are you serious, you either have no clue or are leveling

westlife2010 · 13-02-2010 6:36pm

Dont think McCoy did anything wrong on him today. I would guess that having jumped and travelled so well at a good pace McCoy, looking behind, would have expected to see the opposition 20 -25L behind! The fact that the runner up was sitting a couple of lengths of him at that stage I think surprised him, and everybody, and I really dont know if he would have won even without the mishaps. Think he had an off day but as I said in a previous post, I dont like the booking of McCoy on this fella. He is a horse who travels so well without having to be bustled along and asked at every(or any) fence. Thomas is not in the same league as McCoy but he's just as good as any outside of the top 2 jocks and he knows this horse inside out.... Put him back up! (No chance:()

Nulty · 13-02-2010 7:27pm

There are people whinging (on other forums at least) that everyones saying McCoy is a bad jockey for his ride today. Noones saying that. Not the I've read.

It's just a case of 'horses for courses'. And by that I mean 'jockeys for horses'.

Another thing being said is if Sam Thomas was unseated would we be saying he's a crap jockey. The answer is obviously no, he's proven he rides Denman perfectly well. Denman has made mistakes in the past and did so again today.

I'd just make the point that perhaps Denman wasn't helped by a new riding style that arguably doesn't suit his running style.

Still, Denman 3/1 with PP. He's almost eachway!

mr.jingle · 13-02-2010 7:49pm

I had to have a little chuckle after seeing the ride Sam Thomas gave Winterwood a few minutes after Denmans failure just because of the way he was treated and plus Harry Findlay's a muppet! McCoy obviously doesn't suit Denman's style and i personally think he was asking to much of Denman today and should have let the horse do the job without too much of a fuss! I just can't imagine what Kauto Star would have done to that field!

If people are slating McCoy then what about Ruby on Master Minded ok he won was jumpin brilliantly and come to the last and not for the first time instead of pushing him into the fence he reins him back and almost cost him! He can only be so lucky for so long as he's done it a few times with Kauto
but i'm sure he knows what he's doing!:)

Morgans · 13-02-2010 7:56pm

I cant believe Denman fans are willing to look at the jockey. Horses make mistakes under good and bad jockeys, Master Minded under Ruby, Cousin Vinny under Mullins, Big Bucks under Thomas, and Denman under McCoy. The fact that Denman fans are willing to blame the jockey today instead of believing the obvious, that today, Denman wasnt nearly the horse they thought he was or the horse he could be.

I think the Harchibald/Paul Carberry ride as good a lithmus test to test people's understanding of racing. I think those who blame still have something to learn. They still belong to the betfair forum level of racing discussion. The only downside for Carberry was that he listened to the fools who criticised him and went on before the last at Punchestown a month later only for Harchibald to curl up beneath him and Brave Inca to rally and beat him.

corny · 13-02-2010 8:33pm

Morgans wrote: »

I cant believe Denman fans are willing to look at the jockey. Horses make mistakes under good and bad jockeys, Master Minded under Ruby, Cousin Vinny under Mullins, Big Bucks under Thomas, and Denman under McCoy. The fact that Denman fans are willing to blame the jockey today instead of believing the obvious, that today, Denman wasnt nearly the horse they thought he was or the horse he could be.

I think the Harchibald/Paul Carberry ride as good a lithmus test to test people's understanding of racing. I think those who blame still have something to learn. They still belong to the betfair forum level of racing discussion. The only downside for Carberry was that he listened to the fools who criticised him and went on before the last at Punchestown a month later only for Harchibald to curl up beneath him and Brave Inca to rally and beat him.

He didn't actually he listened to his trainer. Noel Meade told him to go on at Punch. I wouldn't blame Carberry for Harchi losing the CH because personally i don't think he'd have beaten HE that day but i know one thing. Giving a horse 50-100yards to quicken up at the end of a tough race is ridiculous and it wouldn't be the first time Carberry made a complete arse of himself in a finish.

Back to Denman. How is it obvious? Thats absolute rubbish. He gave 2 stone and a 7 length beating to Niche Market in the hennessy at the same track and today, for me anyway, he looked beaten when challenged by the same horse 4 out. PN even said this morning before the race he was a lot fitter for the Hennessy and that he's left a fair bit to work on with the horse. Whats obvious is that he ran below form. How much below is open to interpretation. The only reasonable thing you said there was that it wasn't McCoys fault.

I don't care who you're a 'fan' of but you're guilty of the same tunnel vision you level at the so called 'Denman fans'.

Morgans · 13-02-2010 8:41pm

corny wrote: »

He didn't actually he listened to his trainer. Noel Meade told him to go on at Punch. I wouldn't blame Carberry for Harchi losing the CH because personally i don't think he'd have beaten HE that day but i know one thing. Giving a horse 50-100yards to quicken up at the end of a tough race is ridiculous and it wouldn't be the first time Carberry made a complete arse of himself in a finish.

Back to Denman. How is it obvious? Thats absolute rubbish. He gave 2 stone and a 7 length beating to Niche Market in the hennessy at the same track and today, for me anyway, he looked beaten when challenged by the same horse 4 out. PN even said this morning before the race he was a lot fitter for the Hennessy and that he's left a fair bit to work on with the horse. Whats obvious is that he ran below form. How much below is open to interpretation. The only reasonable thing you said there was that it wasn't McCoys fault.

I don't care who you're a 'fan' of but you're guilty of the same tunnel vision you level at the so called 'Denman fans'.

Corny, maybe re-read my post. That today Denman wasnt the horse fans thought he was or he could be. You seem to totally agree with that statement, yet call it absolute rubbish. But I guess you are just waiting to argue again....

In the interview after Punchestown with RTE, Carberry made a point of addressing the critics. Of course, he consulted with the trainer and not the betfair forum for riding instructions before hand.

corny · 13-02-2010 8:57pm

Morgans wrote: »

Corny, maybe re-read my post. That today Denman wasnt the horse fans thought he was or he could be. You seem to totally agree with that statement, yet call it absolute rubbish. But I guess you are just waiting to argue again....

Oh my apologies then so. The today was quite important.:)

Argue again? Never.

corny · 13-02-2010 9:03pm

Morgans wrote: »

In the interview after Punchestown with RTE, Carberry made a point of addressing the critics. Of course, he consulted with the trainer and not the betfair forum for riding instructions before hand.

He flat out disagreed with his trainer but was overruled. You said he listened "to the fools who criticised him" suggesting they changed his mind. He didn't he listened to his trainer.

Morgans · 13-02-2010 9:06pm

corny wrote: »

Oh my apologies then so. The today was quite important.:)

Argue again? Never.

So, pretty much all I said was reasonable then in the post....

Looking forward to the next one.

Morgans · 13-02-2010 9:09pm

corny wrote: »

He flat out disagreed with his trainer but was overruled. You said he listened "to the fools who criticised him" suggesting they changed his mind. He didn't he listened to his trainer.

It would go a bit far to call Meade a fool of course, but Carberry mistrusted his own instincts and was proven that he shouldn't have done so with Harchibald.

Or Meade mistrusted Carberry's instincts and listened to the critics.

FINGAL FAN · 13-02-2010 9:21pm

I cannot ses what Tony Mc Coy is supposed to have done wrong today . The horse made a howler that lost him all chance today -end of . He would have won with a clear round . What would concern me though is the closeness of a horse like Niche Market at the time . Denman should be operating in a totally different planet to Niche Market if hes to win the Gold Cup.

corny · 13-02-2010 9:27pm

Morgans wrote: »

So, pretty much all I said was reasonable then in the post....

Looking forward to the next one.

How gracious of you!

Morgans · 13-02-2010 9:30pm

It was strange to see Denman niggled at the beginning of the race to take up the lead. Maybe he is a horse that takes a bit of knowing. I was expecting him to gradually pull clear after the cross fence. McCoy said that he asked him to pick up and he didn't. If he is beaten again this year by Kauto, he will have his excuse again though, which is a shame.

mdwexford · 13-02-2010 9:32pm

Just for the record Carberrys ride on Harchibald was top drawer and no other jockey would have got him that close to winning a Champion Hurdle.

People saying McCoy doesnt suit Denman are talking complete rubbish, hes a 14 time Champion jockey who has won almost every big race, he can ride any kind of horse. Especially a straight forward front runner, Denman doesnt take any riding, its not like hes needs cover or to be delivered late.

After watching again i think Denman definitely had them covered today before the first mistake, he was only starting to get into him. Perhaps he didnt go fast enough through the race to burn them off but i suppose he thought he would win easy. I dont think Denman was majorly below par today, im open to being wrong on this obviously but he looked fine to me till the mistake.

McCoys comments after the race about when he asked him to quicken up the straight there was no turn of foot surprised me though, Denman has no turn of foot, his strength is being able to keep up a fast gallop the whole way through a race and having horses out on their feet by 2 out.

corny · 13-02-2010 9:32pm

Morgans wrote: »

It would go a bit far to call Meade a fool of course, but Carberry mistrusted his own instincts and was proven that he shouldn't have done so with Harchibald.

Or Meade mistrusted Carberry's instincts and listened to the critics.

Carberry trusted his own instincts but was overulled. Meade trusted his own instincts and didn't listen to the media. Ipso Facto you were wrong to suggest Carberry was swayed by public opinion. I'll look forward to the next time too.

Morgans · 13-02-2010 9:37pm

corny wrote: »

Carberry trusted his own instincts but was overulled. Meade trusted his own instincts and didn't listen to the media. Ipso Facto you were wrong to suggest Carberry was swayed by public opinion. I'll look forward to the next time too.

Excuse me for using shorthand about Paul Carberry and Harchibald in a thread about Denman and the Aon. It will teach me to be more precise. Keep up the analysis of my posts though. You'll never know, you might learn something.

corny · 13-02-2010 9:40pm

Morgans wrote: »

Excuse me for using shorthand about Paul Carberry and Harchibald in a thread about Denman and the Aon. It will teach me to be more precise. Keep up the analysis of my posts though. You'll never know, you might learn something.

Chance would be a fine thing but consider yourself excused.

Morgans · 13-02-2010 9:41pm

mdwexford wrote: »

Just for the record Carberrys ride on Harchibald was top drawer and no other jockey would have got him that close to winning a Champion Hurdle.

People saying McCoy doesnt suit Denman are talking complete rubbish, hes a 14 time Champion jockey who has won almost every big race, he can ride any kind of horse. Especially a straight forward front runner, Denman doesnt take any riding, its not like hes needs cover or to be delivered late.

After watching again i think Denman definitely had them covered today before the first mistake, he was only starting to get into him. Perhaps he didnt go fast enough through the race to burn them off but i suppose he thought he would win easy. I dont think Denman was majorly below par today, im open to being wrong on this obviously but he looked fine to me till the mistake.

McCoys comments after the race about when he asked him to quicken up the straight there was no turn of foot surprised me though, Denman has no turn of foot, his strength is being able to keep up a fast gallop the whole way through a race and having horses out on their feet by 2 out.

Im not really sure McCoy was expecting a turn of foot as such more for Denman to move into fifth gear, and was surprised that there was none there. Maybe that is not the way to ride him (maybe there is something in having a jockey that knows the horse in that, but its something Nicholls or Ruby could have passed on) I think he might have won with four ordinary jumps, given the way Niche Market folded on the run in, but not like a 1/7 shot with 20 odd pounds in hand.

Shane732 · 13-02-2010 9:41pm

Morgans wrote: »

It was strange to see Denman niggled at the beginning of the race to take up the lead. Maybe he is a horse that takes a bit of knowing. I was expecting him to gradually pull clear after the cross fence. McCoy said that he asked him to pick up and he didn't. If he is beaten again this year by Kauto, he will have his excuse again though, which is a shame.

It was strange to see him being niggled today. I know he was out the back the last day at the start but Walsh had to do little or nothing to get him through the pack.

Personally I'm a huge Denman fan, I absolutely love the horse but he just isn't the same horse since the heart problem. People have to remember just how serious the heart problem was.

Unfortunately I feel that when the history books are written he would get the praise that he deserves.

mdwexford · 13-02-2010 9:49pm

Morgans wrote: »

Im not really sure McCoy was expecting a turn of foot as such more for Denman to move into fifth gear, and was surprised that there was none there. Maybe that is not the way to ride him (maybe there is something in having a jockey that knows the horse in that, but its something Nicholls or Ruby could have passed on) I think he might have won with four ordinary jumps, given the way Niche Market folded on the run in, but not like a 1/7 shot with 20 odd pounds in hand.

Im presuming he was trying to do as little as possible and win by a cosy 4-5 lengths, you would think Nicholls and Ruby obviously would have given him plenty of advice on how to ride him. Id say they all thought he'd only have to amble round to win in a canter and maybe AP panicked a bit when he saw they werent all out on their feet when he looked behind.

When he went 1.22 on Betfair after they jumped off i was very tempted to back him, would be drinking a bottle of vodka right now if i had.

mdwexford · 13-02-2010 9:51pm

Shane732 wrote: »

It was strange to see him being niggled today. I know he was out the back the last day at the start but Walsh had to do little or nothing to get him through the pack.

Personally I'm a huge Denman fan, I absolutely love the horse but he just isn't the same horse since the heart problem. People have to remember just how serious the heart problem was.

Unfortunately I feel that when the history books are written he would get the praise that he deserves.

His last run to win his second Hennessy was his joint highest rated run ever so im not so sure you are correct there.

I wouldnt be overly worried by today if i was a Denman backer.

Morgans · 13-02-2010 9:55pm

Yeah. Reportedly a very stuffy horse it may be that Nicholls has undercooked twice in the last three years (here and at Kempton) maybe underestimating opposition on both times. I don't think all is lost for his ante post fans but its not ideal. I didnt have a bet but was tempted by Niche Market each way. Delighted he was chinned.

Shane732 · 13-02-2010 10:34pm

mdwexford wrote: »

His last run to win his second Hennessy was his joint highest rated run ever so im not so sure you are correct there.

I wouldnt be overly worried by today if i was a Denman backer.

I'm not overly worried about the Gold Cup betting - I'll even get a better price now and I think all the money will be for Kauto on the day so I can see him drifting out a bit further. I'll back Denman regardless of the price because I love the horse and I'm not someone who usually backs with my heart.

The Hennessy was a remarkable achievement but it's not what he should be remember for.

Sprouts · 13-02-2010 10:42pm

How can anyone blame AP? He didn't do anything wrong. Its like Denman loses concentration in races. I'd try blinkers on him. Im still backing him for the Gold cup.

chinguetti · 13-02-2010 10:45pm

Right, my two cent worth. Denman was in trouble when he made the mistake, McCoy was looking behind him like a worried man and Niche Market was coming back to him without too much trouble in my eyes. He can't go from the Hennessy display to today unless something is wrong or he was 80% or so fit. I'ld go with the lack of fitness. March 19th is the day.

McCoy should have left Denman just get over the 2nd last and then see if there was anything in the tank. I think he was, as he always is, trying to win. He wouldn't have caught Niche Market i think but he would have finished for all that was worth.

Ruby seemed quite surprised by the whole thing from what he said and just won which will give him a big weight for Aintree so Denman unseating has probably messed more than one plan for Nicholls.

cson · 13-02-2010 11:10pm

I know it's a while ago but that Hennessy race was an extremely tough race on the animal; lumping the weight around and Ruby didn't spare him either. It's possible that he hadn't recovered from it - iirc it was a reason offered why he wasn't at his best last season, the 2008 GC romp had taken too much out of him.

Diggy78 · 13-02-2010 11:48pm

cson wrote: »

I know it's a while ago but that Hennessy race was an extremely tough race on the animal; lumping the weight around and Ruby didn't spare him either. It's possible that he hadn't recovered from it - iirc it was a reason offered why he wasn't at his best last season, the 2008 GC romp had taken too much out of him.

I know what you mean about having a hard race but he wasn't carrying much more weight than he always does. Sure he was giving away weight but there's only 2 lbs difference to normal conditions races.

Nulty · 13-02-2010 11:54pm

chinguetti wrote: »

Right, my two cent worth. Denman was in trouble when he made the mistake, McCoy was looking behind him like a worried man and Niche Market was coming back to him without too much trouble in my eyes. He can't go from the Hennessy display to today unless something is wrong or he was 80% or so fit. I'ld go with the lack of fitness. March 19th is the day.

McCoy should have left Denman just get over the 2nd last and then see if there was anything in the tank. I think he was, as he always is, trying to win. He wouldn't have caught Niche Market i think but he would have finished for all that was worth.

Ruby seemed quite surprised by the whole thing from what he said and just won which will give him a big weight for Aintree so Denman unseating has probably messed more than one plan for Nicholls.

The owners of Tricky Trickster said they are going to go for the Gold Cup after the race. And they seemed (I read it) generally pleased.

Racing Post

Tricky Trickster-owner Chris Giles said: "That's brilliant. He's our National horse but he'll be going for the Gold Cup now.

"He really seems a big-race horse as it brings him alive. He was really up for it today before the race unlike last time."

Nulty · 13-02-2010 11:59pm

Diggy78 wrote: »

I know what you mean about having a hard race but he wasn't carrying much more weight than he always does. Sure he was giving away weight but there's only 2 lbs difference to normal conditions races.

I think he means in context of the heart problem. The Hennessy and the heart problem

Nulty · 14-02-2010 2:40am

I know its late but do my eyes decieve me!?

Tricky Trickster is in Top 5 Bets on Paddy Power for the National...on the day the owner said he's going to run in the Gold Cup!

He's bet more than Master Minded who is in a race he's actually going to run in.

:pac:

Lay?

westlife2010 · 14-02-2010 3:23am

Nulty wrote: »

I know its late but do my eyes decieve me!?

Tricky Trickster is in Top 5 Bets on Paddy Power for the National...on the day the owner said he's going to run in the Gold Cup!

He's bet more than Master Minded who is in a race he's actually going to run in.

:pac:

Lay?

dont agree, I think the Gold cup is one of the best grand National trials... Rough Quest finished 2nd to Imperial Call in the GC and was the ONLY bet i have ever had in the Grand National wr I actually thought I was on 'a good thing' in this race ( had only a feather weight in the National and danced in). Hedgehunter ran a cracker in the gold cup (2nd to War) before another great run in the National. And the 1991 Gold Cup winner Garrison Savannah was just touched off by Seagram the same year! Tricky could (and prob will) get badly outpaced at half way and run on (under 'tender' handling) for 5th or 6th.....actually, just looking at the field again...maybe 4th or 5th. The perfect prep.

RichieLawlor · 14-02-2010 5:10am

cson wrote: »

I know it's a while ago but that Hennessy race was an extremely tough race on the animal; lumping the weight around and Ruby didn't spare him either. It's possible that he hadn't recovered from it - iirc it was a reason offered why he wasn't at his best last season, the 2008 GC romp had taken too much out of him.

Lol some of your posts are embarrassing. Do you watch racing. The Gold Cup was not offered as an excuse, Denman had a serious heart problem which is why he was not at his best.

mdwexford · 14-02-2010 5:37am

Nulty wrote: »

I know its late but do my eyes decieve me!?

Tricky Trickster is in Top 5 Bets on Paddy Power for the National...on the day the owner said he's going to run in the Gold Cup!

He's bet more than Master Minded who is in a race he's actually going to run in.

:pac:

Lay?

Um, you do know you're allowed to run in both yes?

UrbanSea · 14-02-2010 10:01am

westlife2010 wrote: »

dont agree, I think the Gold cup is one of the best grand National trials... Rough Quest finished 2nd to Imperial Call in the GC and was the ONLY bet i have ever had in the Grand National wr I actually thought I was on 'a good thing' in this race ( had only a feather weight in the National and danced in). Hedgehunter ran a cracker in the gold cup (2nd to War) before another great run in the National. And the 1991 Gold Cup winner Garrison Savannah was just touched off by Seagram the same year! Tricky could (and prob will) get badly outpaced at half way and run on (under 'tender' handling) for 5th or 6th.....actually, just looking at the field again...maybe 4th or 5th. The perfect prep.

Ya,My Will ran a big race into 5th last year at 100/1 and decided to go for the National,being a very well backed 3rd at 8/1,hardly a bad run.

cson · 14-02-2010 12:18pm

RichieLawlor wrote: »

Lol some of your posts are embarrassing. Do you watch racing. The Gold Cup was not offered as an excuse, Denman had a serious heart problem which is why he was not at his best.

I'm pretty sure I've heard on the record from Nicholls, Findlay et al that he wasn't right after his Gold Cup win for quite some time. Maybe the heart defect was already latent in him at that stage, one thing I know for sure is that he was legless at the end of the Gold Cup he won. It was an extremely hard race on him - which could have exacerbated his heart problem and led to his 2009 showing and equally in my opinion his Hennessy triumph was an extremely hard race on him and may have and continue to effect him - it's obvious he wasn't 100% for the race even after a lengthy layoff after the Hennessy.

I think what we have to look at here is the fact the horse didn't run to form yesterday at all - even if he had won. He wasn't 100%. The glaring question that throws up is will he be 100% for Cheltenham?

Nulty · 14-02-2010 3:15pm

westlife2010 wrote: »

dont agree, I think the Gold cup is one of the best grand National trials... Rough Quest finished 2nd to Imperial Call in the GC and was the ONLY bet i have ever had in the Grand National wr I actually thought I was on 'a good thing' in this race ( had only a feather weight in the National and danced in). Hedgehunter ran a cracker in the gold cup (2nd to War) before another great run in the National. And the 1991 Gold Cup winner Garrison Savannah was just touched off by Seagram the same year! Tricky could (and prob will) get badly outpaced at half way and run on (under 'tender' handling) for 5th or 6th.....actually, just looking at the field again...maybe 4th or 5th. The perfect prep.

mdwexford wrote: »

Um, you do know you're allowed to run in both yes?

Ok, thanks for telling me. And um, yes mdwexford I know your allowed run in both I just didn't know that it was done regularly. I've stated many times that I only started following racing since the Punchestown festival last year yes?.

Colonel Sanders · 14-02-2010 4:06pm

First of all I think Sam Thomas should have kept the ride, however I don't blame McCoy

At the time just before the first mistake I thought to myself 'Denman might actually have to be shaken up here to win'. He lost an acre of ground after his first mistake and was maybe a bit shaken when hitting the next.

I've always been a Kauto fan in the match between himself and Denman but lets not forget that Kauto was far from impressive in beating L'ami in this race in 2007 before winning the gold cup. All is not lost for Denman backers but Nicholls definately has some work to do in the next 5 weeks

Colonel Sanders · 14-02-2010 4:11pm

Btw about Denman being scrubbed to start, did Ruby not say he had to bustle him along at the start of the Hennessy too?

mdwexford · 14-02-2010 5:47pm

Nulty wrote: »

Ok, thanks for telling me. And um, yes mdwexford I know your allowed run in both I just didn't know that it was done regularly. I've stated many times that I only started following racing since the Punchestown festival last year yes?.

I did not know that, anyway Nicholls uses the Gold Cup as a National prep frequently the last few years.

Denman - Aon

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