Dublin City Underpasses

Son of Stupido

In light of the move towards stopping car traffic in Dublin city centre, should DCC not be considering the following projects, which I think would get the traffic moving much better around the city.

1. Underpass from South Lotts road (opposite the old gasometer) to the east link bridge, a distance of 800m
2. An overpass from the N4 at Kilmainham over the rail tracks & river liffey, and an underpass under the phoenix park to the NCR (roughly parallel to the rail tunnel), a combined total of 1,200m

The net result would be to connect the NCR with the SCR on both sides.

This combined with a readjustment of junctions, lights and road design on both roads would allow (IMO) a much smoother cross city passage, and would give the southside a much more direct route to the DP tunnel.


Not cheap, but might be worth it in the long run.

thoughts?

Victor

Son of Stupido wrote: »

give the southside a much more direct route to the DP tunnel.

Explain that for me. Drawings would be nice.

crushproof

I've been thinking about this for a good while and it's just a fly on the thought but nevertheless......

Ok, take for instance, the N11 in south Dublin, a wide dual carraigeway with numerous traffic light junctions. Would it be difficult to build cut and cover underpasses at the most congested junctions such Whites Cross, Blakes Corner, Merrion Road etc? And of course the dreaded Loughlinstown Roundabout)
Say it would be two lanes in width and built in the centre of the dual carraigeway. The underpass would be open to citybound traffic in the morning and southbound traffic in the evenings.
Now excuse the crude drawing but hopefully you get the jist....it's Whites Cross in Leopardstown. Citybound / Southbound traffic can free flow under the junction while those looking to go to Sandyford/Blackrock can stay over ground.
I'm not an engineer so thi is probably just a pipe dream! But thanks for listening :rolleyes:

I'll draw a better diagram if I have time later!

Irish and Proud

Son of Stupido wrote: »

In light of the move towards stopping car traffic in Dublin city centre, should DCC not be considering the following projects, which I think would get the traffic moving much better around the city.

1. Underpass from South Lotts road (opposite the old gasometer) to the east link bridge, a distance of 800m
2. An overpass from the N4 at Kilmainham over the rail tracks & river liffey, and an underpass under the phoenix park to the NCR (roughly parallel to the rail tunnel), a combined total of 1,200m

The net result would be to connect the NCR with the SCR on both sides.

This combined with a readjustment of junctions, lights and road design on both roads would allow (IMO) a much smoother cross city passage, and would give the southside a much more direct route to the DP tunnel.


Not cheap, but might be worth it in the long run.

thoughts?

Your thinking is generally on the right track, but I'd go further out with your ideas - for example:

1) Linking the R112 Kylemore Road to the R102 Tolka Valley/Griffith Avenue axis on the Northside;

2) Linking the N11 DC (at Donnybrook) towards the Docklands (maybe a tunnel for some part);

...further to this:

3) a new Bus Station at Spencer Dock for north/south bus routes (taking advantage of the M50 DPT, N11 Link, Luas Red Line, & Dart 2 Interconnector);

4) a new Bus Station at Heuston for westward bus routes (taking advantage of the N4 DC, Luas Red Line, & Dart 2 Interconnector).

All of these concepts should go some way towards solving Dublin's traffic congestion.

Regards!

Son of Stupido

I like the idea of a tunnel from donnybrook to the eastlink.

That would give an eastern bypass of sorts, much cheaper than going under the strand.

The junctions on the N11 are also a good idea. I have looked at them several times, and there is pleanty of space to go grade seperated on most of them.

Son of Stupido

some drawings

Steel Pump

Itd make sense to rid of the traffic lights on N4 at palmerstown as its freeflow up till then too, but same can be said about n3, n7 n11 etc.

I think their idea though is that everything inside the m50 is city limits, so driving within and direct freeflow routes are to be discouraged, so public transport is used.

Irish and Proud

Steel Pump wrote: »

...so driving within and direct freeflow routes are to be discouraged, so public transport is used.

...that's rubbish mate - the Dublin Port Tunnel (DPT) is a direct freeflow route within the city, but unlike most urban motorways across the globe, it actually works. Why does the DPT work? Because the Tolls are significantly increased for cars at rush-hour while the Buses go free. Effectively, this motorway is actually a public transport route at rush-hour. It was built mainly for the freight trucks, but public transport was also a consideration during planning.

Cities across the world struggle to make their urban freeways/motorways work - why don't they take on board what Dublin has done with the DPT.

Also, the N4 Lucan Road (inside the M50) could be upgraded to freeflow and Tolled in exactly the same way. A bus station should be built (in conjunction with the N4 upgrade) at Heuston in order the take advantage of the N4, Luas Red Line and Dart 2 Interconnector Line.

Regards!

L1011

The N4 Palmerston junction has more justification for grade seperation than any other inside the M50 because:

1: There is then a few km of grade-seperated DC (Chapeliziod BP) after it towards the city - not another set of lights/RAB 200m down the road like on the other routes
2: It carries both N4 and N7 traffic due to the N7 having been detrunked inside the M50.

crushproof

Son of Stupido wrote: »

some drawings

Hmmm, can't see where the space is gonna come at the East Link end on your map, best to move the exit point to Sean Moore Road I'd say, take some land from the bottle site.

But then again as well, you'd have the problem of so much traffic converging the two lane East link bridge.
Also always wondered why the Chapelizod junction wasn't grade seperated in the boom times

Steel Pump

@Irish and Proud



Good points, but no way if the N4 inside the M50 was made freeflow should they toll it, considering the Port Tunnel was a completely new road they can toll.


So a route that was once free is now tolled with no alternative route, by your idea

DWCommuter

Irish and Proud wrote: »

...that's rubbish mate - the Dublin Port Tunnel (DPT) is a direct freeflow route within the city, but unlike most urban motorways across the globe, it actually works. Why does the DPT work? Because the Tolls are significantly increased for cars at rush-hour while the Buses go free. Effectively, this motorway is actually a public transport route at rush-hour. It was built mainly for the freight trucks, but public transport was also a consideration during planning.

Cities across the world struggle to make their urban freeways/motorways work - why don't they take on board what Dublin has done with the DPT.

Also, the N4 Lucan Road (inside the M50) could be upgraded to freeflow and Tolled in exactly the same way. A bus station should be built (in conjunction with the N4 upgrade) at Heuston in order the take advantage of the N4, Luas Red Line and Dart 2 Interconnector Line.

Regards!

Claptrap!

If half the road design applied in other European capitals was applied in Dublin, traffic would move with more ease than melting icecream. Dublin is a tiny city that its managers seem to think is big.

Proper road solutions would work wonders.

The DPT is a huge waste of money in its current guise. The reduction in tolls is evidence enough that the powers that be realise this.

Steel Pump

DWCommuter wrote: »

Proper road solutions would work wonders.

Which ones are those now? and most cities in Europe are terrible to drive through,

cities not destroyed in WW2 didn't have the advantage of modern planning, so you cant do much with dublin city centre,

Dublin is far from a tiny city aswell

murphaph

A few short underpasses in strategic locations would work wonders, but only as part of a combined public transport improvement initiative. Berlin has loads of little underpasses like this, and they do help traffic flow well.