selling a car problem

wesf

hi, i have my car for sale, 2 lads came to look at it last night, brought it for a test drive, were gone for a good 20 minutes, and yes i know it was stupid to let them off on there own, but they left the cash with me and the keys of there car. anyway, they didnt take it, but soon after they left the local police arrived down to the house, the guard said he was on his way into work when he came up behind the crx and it shot off, he was in his own car so no proof of speed or anything. said the car was doing an awful speed and that he's doing me for dangerous driving, when i wasn't even in the car. he obviously didn't catch up to them or pull them in to see who was driving the car, so he's assuming it was me. the lad called me on private number, so have no contact number or the reg of the car they were driving, only that they were from dublin. where do i stand?

just wondering can the guard do me for this?!

Paulw

You own the car and are responsible for it.

Unless you can provide the details of the person who was actually driving at the time, the Garda can prosecute you, as far as I'm aware.

wesf

ok thanks!

Beez Neez

You should keep in touch with this garda and ensure that he is made aware of the fact that you were not driving. let him have access to your phone so that he can see that you did get a private number call when you said you did - he could also do you for permitting your car to be driven without insurance as i am sure these lads didnt have insurance to drive your car!

If the Garda sees that you are sincere about this and worried about this he may have some sympathy for you.

wesf

Beez Neez wrote: »

You should keep in touch with this garda and ensure that he is made aware of the fact that you were not driving. let him have access to your phone so that he can see that you did get a private number call when you said you did - he could also do you for permitting your car to be driven without insurance as i am sure these lads didnt have insurance to drive your car!

If the Garda sees that you are sincere about this and worried about this he may have some sympathy for you.

yes i'm going to call up to see him today, thanks.

dats_right

Paulw wrote: »

You own the car and are responsible for it.

Unless you can provide the details of the person who was actually driving at the time, the Garda can prosecute you, as far as I'm aware.

100% wrong. If the Garda wishes to prosecute for dangerous driving, in law, it is he who must prove who was driving the car not the other way around. There are some offences that an owner of a vehicle may be guilty of, for example knowingly allowing his vehicle be driven without insurance (s56 of the Road Traffic Act 1961 as amended), but dangerous driving is committed by the driver of the vehicle at the time of the offence.

So if you are prosecuted for dangerous driving the prosecution will have to adduce identification evidence. Dangerous driving convictions usually result in a driving ban so you should consider instructing a solicitor at this stage, possibly with a view to making a formal statement to the Gardai re the whole incident. Certainly, if you are prosecuted you would certainly be well advised instructing a solicitor.

Hooch

dats_right wrote: »

100% wrong. If the Garda wishes to prosecute for dangerous driving, in law, it is he who must prove who was driving the car not the other way around. There are some offences that an owner of a vehicle may be guilty of, for example knowingly allowing his vehicle be driven without insurance (s56 of the Road Traffic Act 1961 as amended), but dangerous driving is committed by the driver of the vehicle at the time of the offence.

So if you are prosecuted for dangerous driving the prosecution will have to adduce identification evidence. Dangerous driving convictions usually result in a driving ban so you should consider instructing a solicitor at this stage, possibly with a view to making a formal statement to the Gardai re the whole incident. Certainly, if you are prosecuted you would certainly be well advised instructing a solicitor.

O/P I can see you getting prosecuted for 107 RTA, not dangeous driving or insurance. Failing to nominate a driver as required by law. Sorry but short answer is its your fault for not taking the drivers details.

dats_right

nice guy always wrote: »

O/P I can see you getting prosecuted for 107 RTA, not dangeous driving or insurance. Failing to nominate a driver as required by law. Sorry but short answer is its your fault for not taking the drivers details.

You are a member of AGS so your view on the potential charge that may be brought are insightful. In fairness though, even if a section 107 prosectution is brought it is poles apart from the relatively serious (and potentially indictable) offence of dangerous driving, particulalry so where the owner is in all other ways co-operative with AGS.

In any event, I assume it is s.107(4)(b), viz:

if the owner of the vehicle states that he was not actually using it at the material time, he shall give such information as he may be required by the member to give as to the identity of the person who was actually using it at that time and, if he fails to do so, shall be guilty of an offence unless he shows to the satisfaction of the court that he did not know and could not with reasonable diligence have ascertained who that person was,

that you have in mind?

This is not a strict liability offence i.e. it is not an absolute requirement that the owner identify the driver of the vehicle, rather the prosecution must prove that the identity of the driver could not with reasonable diligence have been ascertained by the owner. Therefore, if a prosecution is brought, the question for the Court will be; what in the circumstances constitutes 'reasonable diligence' in terms of identifying the user of the vehicle? And did the owner fail to exercise such reasonable diligence in that identification of the user of the vehicle?

It doesn't matter that it is arguably not reasonably diligent to allow a potential purchaser of the car go off and test drive it unaccompanied, because that is not an offence per se i.e. very unwise but not criminal of itself. The offence is failing to exercise reasonable diligence in identifying the user of the vehicle, so if for example, the owner was told by the individual that his name was Mr X, and the owner provided that name and any other information, that may assist in identifying that user of the vehicle, to the Gardai it would make a succesful prosecution under this provision very difficult.

jhegarty

Any cctv near you house that may have got thier number plate ?