Macs are Easier - What a load of Rubbish

Zascar

So I've had my Macbook nearly a month now and I an nowhere nearer to understanding what it is exactly that people think is so great about Macs. I'm pretty much amazed on a daily basis just how difficult even the most normal little tasks and actions are on a Mac - and I just cannot see more than a handful of reasons why it would beat Windows PC's for doing the normal stuff that power users do.

I'm a very experienced PC user and spend most of my waking hours in front of a pc in some way shape of form, constandly insteracting with the web, music movies, programs, downloading, and general file management. There is just So much that I find windows miles miles better. My pc is out of action and I just cannot wait to get it back to do some fairly standard little things. I'm definteily considering selling this macbook and getting a better spec'd Win7 laptop and being done with it. The main reason I bought it was cause I DJ live and most DJs use Mac's as the risk of a windows laptop crashing are not worth it, but Win7 is very stable and really I've never had a pc crash when Djing.

I'm going to compile a list of things that I find myself trying to do on my macbook which is easy on a pc, but seems difficult or laborious - if not near impossible - on a Mac. Just to show you and see if I am right in the fact that some things are different / harder, or if I'm wrong and I'm just not doing it correctly.

Anyway, I did not come in here to b1tch and moan and complain - but I'm looking for other people's opinion and to see if there are any other people who were like me but got converted. Honestly I was really excited to get it and looked forward greatly to learning OSX and finding out what the big fuzz was about, but seriously I'm so disappointed I cannot tell you. Should I just give up now or should I hold on in there? But more importantly, can anyone tell me without faffy waffle, what it is exactly that you think is so much better about mac's than PC's - apart from the never crashing no virus stuff, why are they so good?

There are a few things I love about them, the multitouch trackpad is great and its a shame only apple can do this, the design is undoubtedly excellent, like the magnetic power chord, they look great and feel nice etc, and I cannot deny I actually feel cooler just because I have one lol - but please please tell me that it's not just people believing the marketing rubbish tat makes them so special???

aidan_walsh

At the risk of seeming fan-boish (I'm not being, its a genuine question) is it that its genuinely harder, or that you are more familiar with the Windows way of doing it? I'd be interested to see your list.

babypink

put up your list and we'll see if things really are harder or if you're just stuck in your ways as aidan suggests!



p.s. ---- if you really can't get your nut around Mac just install windows on the thing and have the best looking windows laptop around.

iMax

With you on certain points. I'm 20 years working with PCs (all flavours of windows). There are some things which are more difficult or not evident e.g. why can't I cut & paste instead of copy & paste & then have to delete original - just doesn't make sense to me or the vulcan death grip required for a screenshot, but I have my imac now about four months & I'm in love with it. I'm considering selling my laptop & buying a macbook.

I hate the fact I can't get a decent backup program that doesn't want to format my server first though.

I also wish I could get windows installed on it but bootcamp doesn't seem to want me to

Zascar

Well I knew at the start that I was going to have quite a learning curve to move to the mac way, I'm obvously very used to windows and anything different will seem, well, wrong, but i went in with an open mind and gave it a go, and with so many things, mostly just general file-management type stuff, its simply far easier to do stuff on windows, and you have many different ways of achieving each task depending on which suits best. With mac it seems like there is only one way to do anything - and you have to learn how they want you to do it, do it that way, and then think that it's the best way to do it to

MagicMarker

Care to give some examples?

Zascar

babypink wrote: »

if you really can't get your nut around Mac just install windows on the thing and have the best looking windows laptop around.

I'm definitely going to do that - and see how it goes, but it frustates me the lack of actual keys on the keyboard. No Home/End - PageUp/Page/Down - Delete - PrintScreen etc etc etc

Plus the Mac Key instead of just Ctrl for many things is annoying and unnecessary - Having to use Mac key instead of CRTL for copy + paste is just not as ergonomic/comfortable to use as Crtl

babypink

well fn+the arrow keys do pg up/down home/end

for file management delete doesn't matter because the key combination is different so that it uses backspace.

the mac key ---- well, that's always been there. Different key combinations is all!!


Sounds like it's windows for you alright --- definitely stuck in your ways

Elessar

Give us some examples of what you are trying to do.

Ham'nd'egger

Zascar wrote: »

I'm definitely going to do that - and see how it goes, but it frustates me the lack of actual keys on the keyboard. No Home/End - PageUp/Page/Down - Delete - PrintScreen etc etc etc

Plus the Mac Key instead of just Ctrl for many things is annoying and unnecessary - Having to use Mac key instead of CRTL for copy + paste is just not as ergonomic/comfortable to use as Crtl

Cmd and the wee arrow keys bring you up and down to the top of a page or to scroll down. Print Screen is Cmd Shift and 3 (With some variations with 4 instead of 3 for some other functions) is fairly handy but I don't get your point about Cmd being uncomfortable compared to Ctrl aside from habit given it's a button in about the same place plus you get two of them on a keyboard.

Sad Professor

Macs are easy to use. What most certainly is not easy, however, is unlearning the Windows way of doing things. Some switchers find it harder than others. It requires a willingness to go back to square one and be a computer novice all over together. Many people aren't willingly to do this.

Macs do things differently, in a lot of ways better, than Windows. But as long as you keep blaming the command key for not being the control key, and generally expecting OSX to act like Windows, you are never go see any of the benefits.

Tell us what you are finding difficult and we'll share some of our experience with you. But you need to ask us what the best way of doing such-and-such is, rather than asking how do I make this work like Windows.

Gordon

Delete a file in the finder is Apple-Delete (backspace). Much rather that than randomly delete a file with the click of a button. The only major finder issue I have is that there is no CUT option, apart from that I prefer Macs desktop/finder.

MagicMarker

I love my mac, but of course there are things I dislike.

For instance, not being able to alt(cmd)-tab between different windows of the same application, such as safari, is there a way around that?

babypink

MagicMarker wrote: »

I love my mac, but of course there are things I dislike.

For instance, not being able to alt(cmd)-tab between different windows of the same application, such as safari, is there a way around that?

cmd+shift+[

and

cmd+shift+]

Gordon

MagicMarker wrote: »

I love my mac, but of course there are things I dislike.

For instance, not being able to alt(cmd)-tab between different windows of the same application, such as safari, is there a way around that?

Apple tilde (squiggle):

Apple ~

Strange, one day I found a combination to click between different tabs on firefox, but then the next day I checked it disappeared. I could have upgraded firefox at the time though. It was something like apple 1, apple 2 or something like that. Really strange how it appeared and then disappeared.

Ah, nice one on the tab navigation there babypink, maybe I was dreaming when I got the above combination.

Ham'nd'egger

MagicMarker wrote: »

I love my mac, but of course there are things I dislike.

For instance, not being able to alt(cmd)-tab between different windows of the same application, such as safari, is there a way around that?

Have you not bookmarked some regular pages on Safari?:)

MagicMarker

babypink wrote: »

cmd+shift+[

and

cmd+shift+]

That doesn't work for me.

Hugh_C

Zascar wrote: »

apart from the never crashing no virus stuff, why are they so good?

One word?

Intuitiveness.

I'm currently working on a PC-based Avid editing system and it's a dog. Clunky, ʇıɥs interface and just feels wrong. Of course the minute I go round tinkering in control panels and stuff, it just crashes. Wayhey!

Rulmeq

Zascar wrote: »

I'm definitely going to do that - and see how it goes, but it frustates me the lack of actual keys on the keyboard. No Home/End - PageUp/Page/Down - Delete - PrintScreen etc etc etc

Plus the Mac Key instead of just Ctrl for many things is annoying and unnecessary - Having to use Mac key instead of CRTL for copy + paste is just not as ergonomic/comfortable to use as Crtl

As a Power user on the PC then you should be aware of why the command key (the Apple key as you call it) is a much better way of doing things. The control key is for sending control commands to the computer (try and do ctrl-c on the command line in windows and tell me that the use of control is better).
If you have an issue with the placement of they keys, you can just change the key-bindings. On the original keyboard the control key was where the caps-lock key is (and I know that a lot of UNIX heads still want it there)

You're complaints just seem to be the entrenched habits you have from windows, and while that's legitimate, just because something is different doesn't mean it's worse (or better), however since Windows is the copy, if anyone got it wrong then it was Microsoft.

jesus_thats_gre

Zascar wrote: »

The main reason I bought it was cause I DJ live and most DJs use Mac's as the risk of a windows laptop crashing are not worth it, but Win7 is very stable and really I've never had a pc crash when Djing.

Ya what?

sprinkles

The problem (I found anyway) with Mac OS is that there is plenty of nice things added to make it easier to use than Windows but those little things you are used to with Windows are missing.... but the thing is they aren't missing. They are just hidden.

Just like the APPLE ~ to alternate windows of the same application (it actually makes COMMAND TAB a lot more efficient - you only have the applications rather than all the windows...). Once you find out how to do the things you missed from Windows, and trust me they are more than likely there you will start to appreciate just how much easier it is to use. I constantly find myself running the mouse to the top corners of my PC in work to engage Xpose only to realise that I'm an idiot.

There are a good few tutorials on the Apple website that run you through some of the basics and there are loads of helpful hints and tips here

ps: I know that sounds very Fanboy-ish. To clarify - I haven't used Windows 7 so I am comparing Snow Leopard to Windows XP (Vista got 2 weeks use before I made the jump to Ubuntu).

conor.hogan.2

There is only one thing that is hard to do and doesnt make sense on the mac and that is a small thing - programming.

took me all of two mins to google how to type the hash sign and backspace.

I constantly have to switch and use a windows based pc - and theyre are few things that you have to be aware of and after a week of using the windows after being comfortable using osx they just come as natural as using either os on its own.

shift two for @ instead of shift @key - but most of my problems are hardware like no two finger trackpad scrolling - big clunky latches - dangerous ass hanging power cables.

If i ever had to buy a windows laptop providing it had eneough ram I would be able to use it if the above were fixed and I downloaded a dock type app and a expose and spaces app.

alexlyons

conor.hogan.2 wrote: »

If i ever had to buy a windows laptop providing it had eneough ram I would be able to use it if the above were fixed and I downloaded a dock type app and a expose and spaces app.

sounds like you'd be wanting another mac then....


as for the lack of cut in finder, AFAIK its due to a data safety issue. cutting a file/folder removes it and lets say there is a power otage and you don't have a UPS, then there's a high chance your file/folder is gone, so for all the extra hassle, I reckon it'l be worth it for that one time in history when the computer shuts down as your about to paste... You could always drag the file/folder to the destination and hold cmd which will move it instead of copying.

conor.hogan.2

haha - no doubt, but this macbook will have to be dead before I will get a new one because it cost me 1000 ish euro so ......

Stainless_Steel

I agree with you zascar....don't waste your time....I will give you 300 AND take that rubbish MacBook off you.

Seriously though...don't try and compare the mac OS to windows just yet. Start off your learning from scratch. Then after a small while (4 weeks) you can compare the two and you will never buy a windows PC again. Trust me on this....

The offer for the MacBook still stands by the way

Earthhorse

I made the switch a few months ago and what I will say is that, ultimately, the two are not so far apart in terms of their usability. OS-X isn't all that more usable than Windows, if, in fact, it is at all. There things I prefer on both and, all in all, being more used to the Windows way of doing things I think I would go back given the choice.

Having said that, I do agree with what some posters have said; almost everything I could do on Windows I can do on Mac. You just have to pause for a second, google it and you will find the shortcut key you're looking for.

While I'm here though...:)...one thing that annoys me on the iMac is the behaviour of the Home and End keys. In Windows, these will bring you to the end or beginning of a line (in, say, gmail). On Mac, they don't. I found an article on how to make them behave this way (by creating a file that changes key bindings) but it doesn't seem to work.

Does anyone know of a way to achieve this?

hmmm this is an interesting thread, I've never even used an iMac before but decided I want to use one, so have one ordered to replace my windows system.

Hoping it won't be too hard to adjust ! I'm a little bit of a gadget geek so hopefully it's all good.

buzzymam

I was a Windows user, daily for over 10 years. Never knew anything other than microsoft. I got a Macbook Pro a year ago and after about a month of "figuring it out" I swore then and now that i would only ever buy Macs from now on.

Any of the transitional issues (all were pure habit) i had like "how to open tabs for more then one website in safari" were sooooo easily resolved by minimal google'ing. Macs are intuitive, easy to use and have the best software. I converted all my windows home movies, kids, holidays etc... and have made and editted some brilliant DVD's to keep forever in idvd and imovie. Makes windows movie maker look like a joke in comparison. apart from all the home/office based programs, there media software is just so damn impressive.

Malari

When first introduced to the world of computers it was Macs I used. In every university department I was ever in there was a fleet of Macs. I should be used to the tricks and short-cuts but I find Windows much more intuitive.

I use a Windows PC in work and we have an iBook at home, which frustrates me so much I rarely use it. I think it's more than just getting used to using a Mac, it's personal preference and there seem to be so many more shortcuts for Windows!

Kbeg3

I've been a Mac user now for 2 months and have to say enjoying every bit of it!..

m83

One month into my MacBookPro (previous 16 years using Windows only) and I'm loving every minute of it.

I can't stand the fanboy thing but honestly, I don't know how I lasted so long with Windows - simply worlds apart for me.

cornbb

After (presumably) spending your whole life accustomed to Windows, you're not gonna change your habits overnight. I was using a Mac every day for about 2.5 years til I ditched Windows completely, so the transition can take a while. I remember how certain things about using a Mac infuriated me at first but now I can't ever see myself going back. I haven't touched Windows once in the last year or so. I'm not saying it's bad, I'm just saying that after using a Mac for a while I have no desire to go back.

but please please tell me that it's not just people believing the marketing rubbish tat makes them so special???

From a geeky standpoint, once you get to know the internals of the system, it becomes a real pleasure to use a machine that comes from a UNIX heritage. It's more stable, it's more secure. Apple aren't afraid to "spring clean" their OS on a relatively regular basis, this means that they drop support for older technologies sooner but it also means that they keep it lean and efficient. One of my macs hasn't been rebooted in 3 months, another hasn't been repartitioned or thoroughly cleaned out in 3 years, both are running as smoothly as you could ask. Plus, Apple are extremely good at interaction design (e.g. your touchpad) whereas Microsoft just don't have a clue how to innovate any more.

I'm definitely going to do that - and see how it goes, but it frustates me the lack of actual keys on the keyboard. No Home/End - PageUp/Page/Down - Delete - PrintScreen etc etc etc

PrintScreen is a throwback to the 80s, when that key would literally send the green text on your screen to the printer. See what I mean about reluctance to dump old technologies in Windows? To take a shot of the entire screen on a Mac, use cmd-shift-3. To take a selection of the screen, cmd-shift-4 and drag a lasso around the portion you want a screenshot of. To take a shot of a single window, cmd-shift-4, then spacebar, then click the window. In each case, the image is handily saved to your desktop with a timestamped filename. Much better than having to piss around by pasting your screenshot into MS Paint.

I didn't think any of this til years after I first started using a Mac as I said. I'm basically saying that if you stick with it, you probably won't be sorry.

nialler

Listen, I've been a mac user since 1990, they have their quirks, I use a dell laptop day to day because it's a laptop, my main machine is an imac, my previous machine was a g5, previous again was g4, imac etc so you get the picture, long time user of macs n windows, if I was to introduce my 70 year old parents to the computing world it would be mac (installed on a dell 10v), I have a 10 year old mac running the music in my local, how many times can you say that about a windows machine that hasn't been levelled a few times.

Take your time, get used to the interface and a way of doing things rather than coming on and giving out about it saying you're going back to windows, listen, learn and take advice from all on here and you'll learn to appreciate a much older, more stable and better system.

/end fanboy

N

ps: oh and cornbb that copy paste ****e annoys the living hell outta me on PC and you see it everyday from clients sending you word documents with pictures pasted into them, grrrrrrrr. Get photoshop ffs or save a png/tiff/jpg to your desktop

whiterebel

Earthhorse wrote: »

I made the switch a few months ago and what I will say is that, ultimately, the two are not so far apart in terms of their usability.

Why wouldn't they be? M$ have copied all the good stuff from the Mac since the beginning, and are still doing it.

Earthhorse

whiterebel wrote: »

Why wouldn't they be?

Why do people continually claim that they are?

Kimbot

I have been a PC/Windows head since I was about 7. Up until a few weeks ago I hated Mac's for no reason other than it was different!

I bought a Macbook Pro and even tho there is a learning curve I am thinking of replacing every PC & Laptop in my house with Mac's. I am loving them. They are reliable, do exactly what I want and even tho I am still getting used to it I am finding them easier to use than a PC/Windows based machine.

Gordon

Gordon wrote: »

Strange, one day I found a combination to click between different tabs on firefox, but then the next day I checked it disappeared. I could have upgraded firefox at the time though. It was something like apple 1, apple 2 or something like that. Really strange how it appeared and then disappeared.

And now it's back!

Suffice it to say, you may be able to hit Apple 1, Apple 2, etc for tabbing between tabs on Firefox. On safari this will open up the 1st, 2nd, 3rd etc items on your favourite bar.

Earthhorse

Gordon wrote: »

And now it's back!

Suffice it to say, you may be able to hit Apple 1, Apple 2, etc for tabbing between tabs on Firefox.

What if you have more than 9 tabs open?

nialler

Earthhorse wrote: »

What if you have more than 9 tabs open?

You've got to much porn open!

Type 17

Preface: I have studied Interface Design, and I train people on using computers and handheld devices.

The difference in design ethos between Win and Mac is that Windows treats users as if its their first day using a computer, constantly showing warnings and popping up balloons offering to tidy things up, etc. This can be great at the start, as you get shown things you didn't know, but on the other hand, it does mean you get a lot of distractions, and I've found that older people find it fairly confusing. As time goes on, if you don't bother to find out how to customise things to turn a lot of this stuff off, it can become very annoying (and a lot of people don't want to change things, in case they 'break something').

Mac, on the other hand, assumes that you know what you are doing, and doesn't nanny you with reminders, warnings, etc. At the beginning, this can be a bit daunting, especially for people switching from Windows, as they are used to a certain level of hand-holding. However, in the long-run, using a Mac becomes like owning a sports car - at the start it feels strange, the clutch and steering feel heavy, you don't know the limits of the car, but after a while, the car feels like a glove, and you can throw it around a track with great confidence. You start to realise that it is cleaner and more pure.

No one can say that Mac is better than Windows, or vice-versa, but it is obvious that the designers had different mindsets/target markets in mind when they were developing them and making improvements. Keep that in mind OP, and you'll understand the Mac OS better.

Gordon

Earthhorse wrote: »

What if you have more than 9 tabs open?

Heh, strange, but Apple 9 actually opens the last tab, so if you have 12 tabs open, you'll open 1-8, but then Apple 9 will open tab 12. Bonkers, I prefer the Apple Shift ] approach.

Earthhorse

nialler wrote: »

You've got to much porn open!

:eek:

They told me Macs couldn't be hacked!

Gordon wrote: »

Heh, strange, but Apple 9 actually opens the last tab, so if you have 12 tabs open, you'll open 1-8, but then Apple 9 will open tab 12. Bonkers, I prefer the Apple Shift ] approach.

Interesting.

I use Ctrl Shift and Tab myself.

Gordon

Hmm, control tab works for me too on Firefox, but only ctrl shift [ works on Safari also. Is ctrl shift [ a generic in-app window navigator or just for browsers?

Earthhorse

Gordon wrote: »

Is ctrl shift [ a generic in-app window navigator or just for browsers?

Ctrl Shift Tab is.

In Windows anyway.

Idleater

sprinkles wrote: »

Just like the APPLE ~ to alternate windows of the same application (it actually makes COMMAND TAB a lot more efficient - you only have the applications rather than all the windows...).

Gordon wrote: »

Suffice it to say, you may be able to hit Apple 1, Apple 2, etc for tabbing between tabs on Firefox. On safari this will open up the 1st, 2nd, 3rd etc items on your favourite bar.

Gordon wrote: »

Heh, strange, but Apple 9 actually opens the last tab, so if you have 12 tabs open, you'll open 1-8, but then Apple 9 will open tab 12. Bonkers, I prefer the Apple Shift ] approach.

Thanks for these! The ~ one is brilliant - I was thinking there had to be something better than alt+tab + click

The apple 1 2 3 doesn't work in Camino though. I thought I randomly clicked something to make it work once but can't do it now.

Earthhorse

Gordon wrote: »

Hmm, control tab works for me too on Firefox, but only ctrl shift [ works on Safari also. Is ctrl shift [ a generic in-app window navigator or just for browsers?

Odd. I just opened Safari there and Ctrl Tab works for me. Ditto Chrome. I prefer the Ctrl Tab approach because I'm used to it and because it allows your left hand to tab through while your right is still on the mouse.

muggyog

On a slightly different tack, I would like to ask the OP how he found the transition from Office 03 to Office 07. Pretty intuitive?

As a Mac/PC user I find issues with both platforms but I think your casual discarding of the virus robustness/ lack of crashing of the Mac, reveals that you don't work in a support role.

Rulmeq

Gordon wrote: »

Hmm, control tab works for me too on Firefox, but only ctrl shift [ works on Safari also. Is ctrl shift [ a generic in-app window navigator or just for browsers?

There are a number of shortcuts that are built into the API, and these will be common to all apps written using that API (cocoa) - essentially the apps get this behaviour for free. However there is a legacy API (carbon) which doesn't include these features, and apps like Firefox (and most apps by Adobe) use the legacy API (note I'm using legacy here, because Cocoa is actually chronologically older than carbon, but I digress). This is also the reason why the Adobe apps need to be re-written if they want to become 64bit apps (Apple decided to not support 64bit Carbon apps).

Not even sure if that shortcut is one of the built in ones, but you could try browsers like OmniWeb to see if they are (All Omni apps are cocoa apps)

Zascar

Hey guys thanks for all the replies. Sorry moving house right now so do not have internet but will reply properly soon - with the list of specific thnigs I find annoying/difficult.

Type17 I like your racecar analogy and I'm sure you're right so I'll hang on in there for now!

I'm going to do a bootcamp dual boot with Windows 7 for the meantime just to get me by ...

faceman

Zascar, as a fellow biker, let me give you an analogy that might make more sense:

Windows and OSX are a bit like comparing cars and motorbikes. They both have the same purpose but using them is completely different. So think of Windows as the car and OSX as the motorbike.

If a cager wants to start driving a bike, he cant just get out of his car, hop on a bike and do what he has been doing in his car upto then. He has to learn, practise and not crash.

But when he does learn, his commute will be faster, more fuel efficient and offer a freedom that being stuck in a cage doesnt.

alexlyons

faceman wrote: »

Zascar, as a fellow biker, let me give you an analogy that might make more sense:

Windows and OSX are a bit like comparing cars and motorbikes. They both have the same purpose but using them is completely different. So think of Windows as the car and OSX as the motorbike.

If a cager wants to start driving a bike, he cant just get out of his car, hop on a bike and do what he has been doing in his car upto then. He has to learn, practise and not crash.

But when he does learn, his commute will be faster, more fuel efficient and offer a freedom that being stuck in a cage doesnt.

Wow, that is actually an incredibly good analogy! absolutely perfect!