Inappropriate?

dollybird09

I work in a job that involves dealing with high net worth clients on a daily basis. They are demanding and love me as I’m very good at my job.

A client met with one of the directors and said he’d like to take me out for dinner by way of thanks for a job well done on a deal last week. No problem there, except for he is notoriously inappropriate around female staff and is almost 30 years my senior. I called the client and respectfully declined but he insisted. The director basically insisted that I go, but has told me to leave work early to go home and change into a ‘dress or something nice’. I think this is inappropriate, in my suit I feel prepared to deal with clients, by going home, changing and dressing appropriately for dinner I will be dressed up, which makes this less work related and more uncomfortable for me. Also as I drive to work, I’ve been told to get a taxi back to town so I can have a few drinks and enjoy myself…

I feel like I’m being pimped out for want of a better expression…

Thoughts?

mood

Wear what you want and drive if you want. Can you borrow an engagement ring from a friend? This might put him off trying anything.

dollybird09

mood wrote: »

Wear what you want and drive if you want. Can you borrow an engagement ring from a friend? This might put him off trying anything.

good idea! I'm not quite sure that will deter him. I'm dreading it, he's so inappropriate :rolleyes:

Though he is very very wealthy....

mood

I wouldn't show any flesh at all, drink, accept a lift from him. Keep it very professional and tell him very little about hobbies and you life in general. Keep the talk to all think business related. I don't envy you at all.

And for the record your boss has no business telling you to have dinner with a client IMO.

Sleepy

Sounds like you are being pimped out tbh OP.

onemorechance

You are obviously not totally against it.

Though he is very very wealthy....

But you will give him the notion that he is in with a chance if you do go. Be prepared for all that may entail. If you really are dreading it don't go, you make yourself look weak if you do something you don't want to do.

snowy2008

definatly go, it might be a bit of craic, some old guys think they still got it, did you ever hear the expression like the little dog who chased the car, he'd never know what to do if he caught up with it in all seriousness, hes just trying to be nice becuase obviously your really good at your job and it was appreciated, just go and head off afterwards coz your up early the next day because you've lots of work on

hobochris

Sounds very dodgy.

If you boss is insisting, then I would insist on your boss paying you for the time spent strengthening the relationship with his client.

that way if anything does happen, you can pursue the avenue of sexual harassment in the work place.

dollybird09

mairtin888 wrote: »

You are obviously not totally against it.

I was kidding!!

I am very against it, I work in a male dominated company and have to really stand up for myself at client parties so I don't get groped constantly!

I'm answerable to the director of the company (also a male) and he insists that this is part of my role in the company.. 'keeping clients happy and satisfied'... all of a sudden I'm on the game!

helimachoptor

Go, but bring some mace and spray him with it if he tries it on

hobochris

dollybird09 wrote: »

I was kidding!!

I am very against it, I work in a male dominated company and have to really stand up for myself at client parties so I don't get groped constantly!

I'm answerable to the director of the company (also a male) and he insists that this is part of my role in the company.. 'keeping clients happy and satisfied'... all of a sudden I'm on the game!

I would ask are your male counterparts expected to give up their free time at a clients request for the benefit of the company?

thirtythirty

Sounds to me like you haven't been working in your current job for v long - less than a year or two maybe & I suspect I could probably guess a handful of firms you're in - if i'm right, I wouldn't be too worried if I were you. Client shmoozing is a big part of it. Golf for the lads, dinner for the ladies!

Though dinner by yourself is kinda unusual if you are fairly junior in the job - just don't encourage inappropriate jokes!

Mena

I don't see what all the fuss is about... I've had to entertain clients more times than I can recall. It's part and parcel of a lot of jobs.

helimachoptor

hobochris wrote: »

I would ask are your male counterparts expected to give up their free time at a clients request for the benefit of the company?

Yes but it would probably involve going for beers, I do expect she's being pimped out as a bit of eye candy for this guy.

mood

hobochris wrote: »

Sounds very dodgy.

If you boss is insisting, then I would insist on your boss paying you for the time spent strengthening the relationship with his client.

that way if anything does happen, you can pursue the avenue of sexual harassment in the work place.

Good idea.

Also tell your boss you think it is a situation where you could be sexually harassed as this man has a reputation. This should make the boss think.

If you can't get out of it leave as soon as possible and get a male friend or brother to pick you up - actually call into the place to let you know he arrived to collect you.

onemorechance

If you don't want to do it, then don't do it. I still think it will make you look weak. Your boss will expect you to do this all the time. If you are good at your job then that should be enough. I think your boss will have more respect for you as a person if you stand up for yourself and refuse. There are plenty of laws out there to protect your rights in this kind of situation. If you get fired or get treated badly at work because of this then you can sue for multiple years wages. If you are good at your job and if your boss does not see you as eye candy more than a good employee, then you will gain respect by refusing to do this.

MagicMarker

Do your male counterparts do this kind of thing?

Quigs Snr

Go out, be professional, have a laugh and if it starts veering towards the appropriate, ask him to check out the pins on the waitress and start drooling, tell him you are a lesbian. He will know he will not be getting any joy and will probably be strangely turned on all at the same time. Everyones a winner.

Or not. Nah seriously, I don't like doing this kind of stuff either (I am male), but I have to do it all the time when our offshore leaders come for a visit). Its a royal pain.

dollybird09

MagicMarker wrote: »

Do your male counterparts do this kind of thing?

they go play golf/to rugby matches with the clients, I attend all of these types of client outings. Not one of the guys has ever been expected to go to dinner alone with a lclient, usually it's lunch or drinks.

As for the person who said I'll look weak if I do it, I don't agree. It's deemed as a client request and we manage their investments so it's our job to keep them happy, I just dispute the being to told to go home and put on a dress! I know it's just dinner but I also know that he will try it on with me afterwards, he's that type, but I'm more than capable of turning guys down... I've had practice!!

dudara

It's not a pleasant situation to be placed in, but at least take control of it.

If you don't want to drink, then don't. If you don't want to wear a 'nice' dress then don't.

Go, be pleasant to the client, but keep your boundaries and relationship professional. And try to enjoy the free dinner!

mood

How has he behaved with other females in the company?

ToasterSparks

I wouldn't look into it too much. It's just client schmoozing like an earlier poster said. On the plus side, it might give you a chance to get to know him better professionally and enhance your working relationship.

Obviously, if things get uncomfortable you can always remove yourself from the situation and complain to your superiors. But I wouldn't jump on the 'sexual harassment' bandwagon unless you're sure that the intentions of this colleague are inappropriate. Maybe the client thought you'd prefer to discuss business over dinner rather than a golf course or over a few pints! I'd give them the benefit of the doubt for now.

onemorechance

I guess dudara gave the best advice, do it how you want to do it, try and enjoy it and ensure boundaries that you are comfortable with are strictly adhered to!

markpb

dollybird09 wrote: »

The director basically insisted that I go

Like others have said, this is fine and expected in a lot of businesses.

but has told me to leave work early to go home and change into a ‘dress or something nice’

This is not acceptable and verges on sexual discrimination by your boss. Wear a suit. If he orders you to wear something else, you need to have words with him.

gandalf

As hobochris said try and make sure that the boss compensates your for your free time. Also were you the only person dealing with this client or were there others. Any smoozing that I have done normally would involve at least two from any company I have worked for because we worked on the deal as a team but also to ensure nothing untoward happened that could effect the relationship with that client.

mood

deadtiger wrote: »

As hobochris said try and make sure that the boss compensates your for your free time. Also were you the only person dealing with this client or were there others. Any smoozing that I have done normally would involve at least two from any company I have worked for because we worked on the deal as a team but also to ensure nothing untoward happened that could effect the relationship with that client.

Very good approach. Protects employee, company and client.

tatli_lokma

I think your boss telling you to get dressed up for it like it was a date is out of order. TBH, here I think your boss is more out of order than the client. in fairness to the client he did run it past your boss first, possibly to make it clear it is business related only???

I would speak to your boss - ask if it is possible for your boss to also attend (mention as others have done the reputation of this client). Perhaps point out to your boss, that if the client has any misconceptions of the meal and feels you have knocked him back, this could damage the future working relationship with the client. In order to ensure this doesn't happen the safest way would be for the boss to also attend, then it is clear it is business only.

If the boss will not attend and you still feel you should go, then I would tell your boss that you will only go straight afterwork, in business wear. If you have to, say you have a prior appointment to keep at 9pm. Then go to the meal with the client, leave by 9pm claiming that you have a prior engagement to meet your boyfriend/partner, or say you must collect them from the airport or something. Can't be helped, blah blah.. all very charming, but still making it clear that you are a) not available, and b) it is a business related meeting.

i really think it is the boss you need to be clear with here first and foremost though.

Let us know what you decide.

Pablo Sanchez

Hmmm..... the name 'dollybird09', says it all.

Dont be shocked if your employer is also aware that good looks may have an effect on the client.

That said, it does seem quite inappropriate, unless other co workers were invited too?

jimoc

If you've ever seen the film White Chicks, just do that

flash harry

go out have a few drinks, take a few risks.......but seriously make a BIG deal of getting ready in work and just change into the exact same business attire as you would notmally wear. No way the boss can comment on what you change into, what could he possibly say that would be legal???

I'd just go and as soon as desert arrives start the exit strategy!

Morlar

I also think it's out of order.

If you are required to go - ie if your male colleagues routinely do the same then wear what you want to wear and do not drink unless you want to. Stick to that and it would send the clearest signal possible in my view.

You mentioned this person is notoriously inaproppriate around women - which doesn't sound promising at all.

Perhaps ask him to bring his wife and you bring your boyfriend or make excuses that you can only stay for an hour as you then need to meet your bf. Also if you have a boyfriend ring him repeatedly throughout the evening, if you dont then ring a male colleague as if he were. This whole scenario sounds very dodgy and tasteless to be honest.

dollybird09

The dinner was last night, I found him very professional to begin with and then the charm tactics came out... He kept commenting on the colour of my eyes, which I could deal with - everyone comments on how nice my eyes are so I took it as a compliment.

So mid way through the meal he goes to the men's room, as he comes back, rubs his hand across my shoulder and kind of through my hair. When he was seated, I politely explained that I am in a relationship and would prefer if we kept things professional. He apologized immediately and we had a very civil chat for the rest of dinner and he was nothing less than a gentleman, walked me to my car and thanked me for a nice evening.

Until this morning... I arrived into work to find him in reception. Overnight, he decided to expand his business interests, which requires him to travel overseas. As is company policy, we often travel with our clients so I am expected to spend at least a week abroad with him. There was no mention of these intentions in recent conversations or last night... Am I being paranoid or is this a sneaky tactic of a lonely man with too much money?

28064212

I highly doubt he's investing a huge amount of money and changing his business just for the possibility of spending more time with you. However, it does sound like he's taking advantage of the position that you are in. To my mind, you have a two choices:

1. Talk to your boss about it and ask him to assign someone else to this account. Outcomes depend entirely on your boss, and from the sounds of it, it doesn't seem like he'd take to kindly to your request. Even if he acquiesced to it, there's a good chance he would hold it against you, and you could gain a reputation as stubborn or "not a team player". Completely unfair, but that's the corporate world
2. Go with him on the trip. This will require a fair amount of forward planning and keeping your guard up while over there. The chances of him actually trying to force you to do something against your will are almost non-existent, but there's a strong possibility he'll use his power and influence to put pressure on you. Some advice:
   • Don't drink at all while over there. Very, very important. No matter what the situation is. Use whatever excuse you want, teetotaller, off the drink (for Lent might be a good one), medical reasons, whatever
   • Handle your own travelling and accommodation arrangements as much as you possibly can. Double-check everything that you don't personally book. The last thing you want is to arrive at a hotel to find that "Actually, they only have the one double-room left..."
   • Be prepared going out. Have the name and number of a second hotel and more than enough money. You don't want to be reliant on him in any way
   • Don't interact with him outside of business reasons. You're going to need to prepare a list of excuses for this. Sight-seeing, meeting with someone else (helps if you have any acquaintances where you're going), phone-call to make to your boyfriend whom you're missing, not feeling well (use "women's troubles" if he asks what wrong, pretty much a silver bullet against any amorous advances)
   • If (extremely unlikely, but possible) he tries to kiss/grope/whatever you, politely, but forcefully, say no, explain (again), that you're in a relationship, and that you have no wish to have any kind of relationship with him outside of a business one. If he continues to try to force the issue, that's the time to get to a public place with people around asap
   • Keep a diary of your interactions with him, including the stuff that went on beforehand, and anything you may have heard against him from other employees. This may sound like overkill, and hopefully it is, but if it comes down to your word against his, this will help you

All of this is most likely unnecessary, he could just like your company, or want to be seen with a "pretty young thing", but better safe than sorry. It's not a nice situation to be in, but sometimes you have to play the game

ToasterSparks

Okay, so I said before that you should give him the benefit of the doubt. You did, but it's clear his intentions are more than professional.

Don't go on this overseas trip - make it clear that you are uncomfortable with the situation and organise another colleague to go in your place.

Don't let him take advantage of you, his 'surprise' change of business interests (which wasn't discussed at the dinner) show his lack of respect for you.

mood

Talk to the boss and HR again. I have a feeling you will get no where but try anyway.

If you go you could get your boyfriend (or male friend pretending to be your OH) to come to the airport to see you off etc. Only be around him for business purposes. Pretend to be sick etc.

If there is a medical condition or medication you can think of that would prevent you from flying use this as an excuse.

Ok this is extreme but if you are really desperate to get out of the trip you could pretend you are pregnant therefore can't fly. I know you can fly during certain months of pregnancy but I also know women who refuse to fly just in case. I don't know if your boss would ask for proof if you tried this but worth a try.

aleybert

dollybird09 wrote: »

The dinner was last night, I found him very professional to begin with and then the charm tactics came out... He kept commenting on the colour of my eyes, which I could deal with - everyone comments on how nice my eyes are so I took it as a compliment.

So mid way through the meal he goes to the men's room, as he comes back, rubs his hand across my shoulder and kind of through my hair. When he was seated, I politely explained that I am in a relationship and would prefer if we kept things professional. He apologized immediately and we had a very civil chat for the rest of dinner and he was nothing less than a gentleman, walked me to my car and thanked me for a nice evening.

Until this morning... I arrived into work to find him in reception. Overnight, he decided to expand his business interests, which requires him to travel overseas. As is company policy, we often travel with our clients so I am expected to spend at least a week abroad with him. There was no mention of these intentions in recent conversations or last night... Am I being paranoid or is this a sneaky tactic of a lonely man with too much money?

I'm sorry, I know this will be a very unpopular opinion, but I think that the poster is completely making this up. I too work in the same business and this all sounds like bs to me. Honestly, it sounds like the poster is looking for attention.

pog it

I'm with aleybert on this. Sorry to anyone who's a believer!
Even the name 'dollybird'...

pathway33

aleybert wrote: »

I too work in the same business

Don't recall dollybird saying what business she worked in

28064212

pog it wrote: »

I'm with aleybert on this. Sorry to anyone who's a believer!
Even the name 'dollybird'...

That might be relevant (not really, but would be closer to it) if she had registered under that name solely to post about this issue. If you think usernames are a legitimate reason to form opinions about a poster, does that mean we can assume your posts are as out of date as Pogs?

pog it

28064212 wrote: »

That might be relevant (not really, but would be closer to it) if she had registered under that name solely to post about this issue. If you think usernames are a legitimate reason to form opinions about a poster, does that mean we can assume your posts are as out of date as Pogs?

I don't even know what Pogs are hehe. The pog is actually Irish 'póg'- just at the time of signing up (4 years ago) I didn't know how to get the fada. But my name does reflect my interest in Irish and something about me.. similar to 'dollybird' and which is way more specific.

I just would imagine that the rub of the shoulders and the brush through the hair is a load of bs! My opinion dude. If you believe, I respect that.

28064212

pog it wrote: »

I don't even know what Pogs are hehe. The pog is actually Irish 'póg'- just at the time of signing up (4 years ago) I didn't know how to get the fada. But my name does reflect my interest in Irish and something about me.. similar to 'dollybird' and which is way more specific.

I just would imagine that the rub of the shoulders and the brush through the hair is a load of bs! My opinion dude. If you believe, I respect that.

How is it more specific? Maybe she's a fan of Dolly Parton. Maybe she had a doll called Dollybird as a child. Maybe it was a nickname from school. What could it possibly matter? What does it have to do with whether the story is true or not? Why is it "a load of bs"?

pog it

28064212 wrote: »

How is it more specific? Maybe she's a fan of Dolly Parton. Maybe she had a doll called Dollybird as a child. Maybe it was a nickname from school. What could it possibly matter? What does it have to do with whether the story is true or not? Why is it "a load of bs"?

instinct

Magenta

aleybert wrote: »

I'm sorry, I know this will be a very unpopular opinion, but I think that the poster is completely making this up. I too work in the same business and this all sounds like bs to me. Honestly, it sounds like the poster is looking for attention.

Do you work for the same company?

aleybert

pathway33 wrote: »

Don't recall dollybird saying what business she worked in

It's deemed as a client request and we manage their investments so it's our job to keep them happy.

There ya go.
I don't work in the same company as the poster. Besides, its irrelevant what business she's in - it still sounds like a made-up story.
What the poster is describing is a very serious matter, however I believe she's making it up. As another poster said, its instinct, just a feeling.
Just read all her posts. If she carried on, next thing she'll be telling us that this bloke whisked her off to Paris for lunch and New York for dinner.
Better lay off the Mills and Boon stories and get back to work!;)

28064212

aleybert wrote: »

It's deemed as a client request and we manage their investments so it's our job to keep them happy.

There ya go.

What exactly does that show? There's about 14 professions that require managing a client's investments. Even if it was the same industry as you, are you trying to say that every company handles their clients exctly the same?

aleybert wrote: »

I don't work in the same company as the poster. Besides, its irrelevant what business she's in - it still sounds like a made-up story.
What the poster is describing is a very serious matter, however I believe she's making it up. As another poster said, its instinct, just a feeling.
Just read all her posts. If she carried on, next thing she'll be telling us that this bloke whisked her off to Paris for lunch and New York for dinner.
Better lay off the Mills and Boon stories and get back to work!;)

That might make the slightest bit of sense if anyone here had a clue who she was. Do you think she gets some kind of thrill from telling strangers made-up stories? She posted on here about an awkward situation, looking for advice. You have no reason to disbelieve her, other than "a feeling".

aleybert

28064212 wrote: »

Do you think she gets some kind of thrill from telling strangers made-up stories? QUOTE]

Yes. Thats my point. As i also said, its completely irrelevant what her job is, surely you agree with that?

28064212

aleybert wrote: »

Yes. Thats my point. As i also said, its completely irrelevant what her job is, surely you agree with that?

You were the one who said you believed her story was bs because you worked in the same business. Do you get some thrill out of dismissing strangers' stories as fabrications? It's an equally relevant question as asking whether she gets a thrill out of making stuff up

aleybert

28064212 wrote: »

You were the one who said you believed her story was bs because you worked in the same business. Do you get some thrill out of dismissing strangers' stories as fabrications? It's an equally relevant question as asking whether she gets a thrill out of making stuff up

I dismissed her story because it sounds made-up. Thats why I dismissed it.
As i stated earlier, what the poster describes is a very serious matter, but her posts seem to cry out for attention FOR HER.
If I was ever proved wrong, I would be the first to apologize to her but c'mon, read her posts............
This is not a male/female or work issue, i believe its a spoof post.
If its not too bold of me to ask, do you believe her?

dollybird09

Interesting to see people's opinions on this.

As for the posts, entirely true, I'm not even going to debate those poster's comments.

I found it interesting that someone thought my username 'said it all'... my username is a nickname, nothing more....

To clarify the point on the client touching my shoulder and hair, it was done in a casual way as he walked by me returning to table - I hardly said he felt me up! It was enough to make me feel uncomfortable though, and that is the point of this thread. I'm not exactly innocent so I know the ways of the world, I'm just wondering am I being overly sensitive by feeling uncomfortable in this situation?

mrgardener

dollybird09 wrote: »

Interesting to see people's opinions on this.

As for the posts, entirely true, I'm not even going to debate those poster's comments.

I found it interesting that someone thought my username 'said it all'... my username is a nickname, nothing more....

To clarify the point on the client touching my shoulder and hair, it was done in a casual way as he walked by me returning to table - I hardly said he felt me up! It was enough to make me feel uncomfortable though, and that is the point of this thread. I'm not exactly innocent so I know the ways of the world, I'm just wondering am I being overly sensitive by feeling uncomfortable in this situation?

• are demanding and love me as I’m very good at my job
• have to really stand up for myself at client parties so I don't get groped constantly
• I know it's just dinner but I also know that he will try it on with me afterwards, he's that type, but I'm more than capable of turning guys down... I've had practice!!
• He kept commenting on the colour of my eyes, which I could deal with - everyone comments on how nice my eyes are
• as he comes back, rubs his hand across my shoulder and kind of through my hair. When he was seated, I politely explained that I am in a relationship and would prefer if we kept things professional. He apologized immediately and we had a very civil chat for the rest of dinner and he was nothing less than a gentleman, walked me to my car and thanked me for a nice evening.

I have been reading this thread with great amusement. This girl seems to be completely self centered. Despite what she KNEW would happen with this man - nothing happened! It sounds like a man out to dinner with a business colleague, casually touched her on the shoulder, and then she turns on him and explains that this is a professional dinner meeting. I'd say that the poor man was stunned! And then you have the arrogance to think that this client of yours has, overnight, changed his investments and business plans to spend time with you?
I'm sorry, but i agree with some of the other contributors. This is fantasy stuff.
You should look for another profession, you're clearly not suited to this one.

amdublin

If this is true it is inappropriate. Bear in mind I said IF.

OP if it is true and you are uncomfortable go to HR on it.