Is OneVision's business model good enough?

10000maniacs

The key point is that the model was drawn up over two years ago before the recession kicked in.
The main points are:

Based on the analysis above we can draw key conclusions on the four areas assessed:
• The economy is expected to remain healthy overall
• Consumer expenditure on leisure will continue to grow, outpacing overall spend
• Our addressable market (TV households) is growing
• The proportion of ABC1s in Ireland is likely to be maintained
As a result, we believe that the Irish economy will provide stable market conditions which are favourable to
launch a new PayTV business.

Full doc:
http://www.bci.ie/DTT/one_vision/app1.pdf

slegs

They will be trying to get people to move from another providor for the most part. They will not be able to offer enough or or offer what they have at a low enough cost (without making a loss) to get enough people to move to have a viable business.

Thats the bottom line. Competition is good but Pay DTT has to compete with the other Pay TV providors who already have the market saturated with access to more services/channels than DTT can offer.

There is potential for another satellite entrant to shake up the market with a low cost model that could undercut Sky with no loss of choice.

Sam Russell

10000maniacs wrote: »

The key point is that the model was drawn up over two years ago before the recession kicked in.
The main points are:

Based on the analysis above we can draw key conclusions on the four areas assessed:
• The economy is expected to remain healthy overall
• Consumer expenditure on leisure will continue to grow, outpacing overall spend
• Our addressable market (TV households) is growing
• The proportion of ABC1s in Ireland is likely to be maintained
As a result, we believe that the Irish economy will provide stable market conditions which are favourable to
launch a new PayTV business.

Full doc:
http://www.bci.ie/DTT/one_vision/app1.pdf

Taking from that submission, one aspect will become apparent in the next few months. They are talking about overspill.

ASO in Ireland and the UK will cause these households to lose a number of their channels in the coming years,
forcing them to seek alternative TV services:
• UK channels received from Wales: ASO in Wales will happen between the summer of 2009 and spring of
2010. This will affect approximately 30,000 FTA homes, who will lose their UK channels by 2010.
– the Preseli transmitter area, serving south-west Wales will be converted between July and September
2009
– the Llanddona transmitter area, serving north-west Wales, including Anglesey will be converted between
October and December 2009
– the Blaenplwyf transmitter, serving west and central Wales, will be converted between January and
March 2010
• UK channels received from Northern Ireland: ASO in the Ulster region in 2012 will affect an estimated 116,000
homes in the north and along the north east coast of the Republic of Ireland who will lose their UK
channels in 2012
• Irish channels: ASO in Ireland planned for 2012 will affect all 350,000 analogue FTA homes in Ireland
because they will require a digital receiver to be able to receive a TV signal


If the digital signals romp in from Wales, Onevision will have a huge hole in their market.

Their only hope will be the MMDS and disaffected $ky customers. Some cable will migrate to Freesat, as will many $ky subscribers. I cannot see much of a trend to go for Paytv for 2nd and 3rd tellies.

Word will get out, lose 4 analogue - gain 40 digital channels.

Sam Russell

Sam Russell wrote: »

Taking from that submission, one aspect will become apparent in the next few months. They are talking about overspill.

ASO in Ireland and the UK will cause these households to lose a number of their channels in the coming years,
forcing them to seek alternative TV services:
• UK channels received from Wales: ASO in Wales will happen between the summer of 2009 and spring of
2010. This will affect approximately 30,000 FTA homes, who will lose their UK channels by 2010.
– the Preseli transmitter area, serving south-west Wales will be converted between July and September
2009
– the Llanddona transmitter area, serving north-west Wales, including Anglesey will be converted between
October and December 2009
– the Blaenplwyf transmitter, serving west and central Wales, will be converted between January and
March 2010
• UK channels received from Northern Ireland: ASO in the Ulster region in 2012 will affect an estimated 116,000
homes in the north and along the north east coast of the Republic of Ireland who will lose their UK
channels in 2012
• Irish channels: ASO in Ireland planned for 2012 will affect all 350,000 analogue FTA homes in Ireland
because they will require a digital receiver to be able to receive a TV signal


If the digital signals romp in from Wales, Onevision will have a huge hole in their market.

Their only hope will be the MMDS and disaffected $ky customers. Some cable will migrate to Freesat, as will many $ky subscribers. I cannot see much of a trend to go for Paytv for 2nd and 3rd tellies.

Word will get out, lose 4 analogue - gain 40 digital channels.

Lol-they had that in their submission.... :eek:

I actually don't know of anyone that has lost presely since switch over.
I can tell you another thing,when Divis ,Brougher and the NI relays get going-then huge swathes of Leinster,Connaught and the 3 ROI Ulster counties will have service.

Utterly utterly laughable.

mrdtv2010

Deleted User wrote: »

Lol-they had that in their submission.... :eek:

I actually don't know of anyone that has lost presely since switch over.
I can tell you another thing,when Divis ,Brougher and the NI relays get going-then huge swathes of Leinster,Connaught and the 3 ROI Ulster counties will have service.

Utterly utterly laughable.

I see lots of people on this board getting grumpy (but alas I am decidely unfazed...)

The real problems are:

a) No investor commitment. Endless discussion about Onevision: but guess what f**k all squared happens!!! And there is a reason: NO BUSINESS MODEL.

b) Economic instability.Like it or not Greece will go down and will take other EU countries and, indeed, possibly the UK with it. This is the next Lehman brothers debacle which will hammer investor sentiment into the floor.

c) Multichannel TV needs in Ireland are served in so many different directions. In Ireland the throwaway for now purchase is the Sagem Picnic box: the perfect risk 'hedge' unlike T2, combo boxes, etc.etc...

d) The politicians, regulators and RTE are completely clueless.

e) Those on this board who say 'This is the standard and that's that' have not understood economic realpolitik. RTE are not in a position to commit to a marketing rollout for obvious reasons. Within the next few weeks OneVision will disappear followed by EasyTV. TV3 are clearly looking for the exit to minimise operating costs.

f) Anyone thinking Freesat will be free forever has not priced in a Conservative Government in the UK. There will be 'sweetheart' deals between the Tories and News, just as there were in 1989 when Astra was launched....

slegs

mrdtv2010 wrote: »

I see lots of people on this board getting grumpy (but alas I am decidely unfazed...)

The real problems are:

a) No investor commitment. Endless discussion about Onevision: but guess what f**k all squared happens!!! And there is a reason: NO BUSINESS MODEL.

b) Economic instability.Like it or not Greece will go down and will take other EU countries and, indeed, possibly the UK with it. This is the next Lehman brothers debacle which will hammer investor sentiment into the floor.

c) Multichannel TV needs in Ireland are served in so many different directions. In Ireland the throwaway for now purchase is the Sagem Picnic box: the perfect risk 'hedge' unlike T2, combo boxes, etc.etc...

d) The politicians, regulators and RTE are completely clueless.

e) Those on this board who say 'This is the standard and that's that' have not understood economic realpolitik. RTE are not in a position to commit to a marketing rollout for obvious reasons. Within the next few weeks OneVision will disappear followed by EasyTV. TV3 are clearly looking for the exit to minimise operating costs.

f) Anyone thinking Freesat will be free forever has not priced in a Conservative Government in the UK. There will be 'sweetheart' deals between the Tories and News, just as there were in 1989 when Astra was launched....

Onevision's business model and its potential for success or failure has f*ckall to do with standards. At this point you are just trolling every single thread you enter with a T2 angle for some unknown reason.

Points a, b,d and f are valid though.

mrdtv2010

You need to read what is written more carefully rather than jumping to quite presumptious conclusions about T2, its costs and commercial attractiveness. It is the system for the future in Ireland as Jordy noted today over on ukfree.v, but not for 2010,in a very long and erudite post.

Here in 2010 in ROI there are two perfectly viable low cost solutions for now:

a) Actually do nothing whilst seeming to do something. Tests are the perfect technopolicy way of spinning things out whilst you decide what to do and truncate long-run (25 year + ) operating costs: a very cute move by RTENL. This means the current analogue/cable/Freesat/Sky/overspill arrangements are exploited in the interim whilst you either vacillate or formulate a long-run strategy.

b) Wait a few years till the recession is over and the T2 standard is cheap. Of course by that time there might be no market for Irish DTT and everybody is on cable or satellite or some overspill. Then forget about DTT altogether or line up with NI.

I think RTE, the broadcasters and the regulators have chosen a). Its a low risk, low cost option option which buys time: that's why TV3 have disappeared. And its the same old story since 1998. Had they gone with MPEG2 in 1998 they would now have probably had decent DTT penetration and been able to consider a switch to T2 at their leisure and bargained Sky into the ground, like the BBC did in the UK.

I don't mean to be uncharitable but Irish digital television policy has been Mickey Mouse and is now governed by Sky and, to a lesser extent, UPC. This has been the very same story since the 1950's and, putting it brutally, they never, ever, learn. The poor consumer is left to reap the whirlwind or pay Mr Murdoch. The overspill and satellite punter will be coattailing on UK economics au futur.

Sam Russell

mrdtv2010 wrote: »

You need to read what is written more carefully rather than jumping to quite presumptious conclusions about T2, its costs and commercial attractiveness. It is the system for the future in Ireland as Jordy noted today over on ukfree.v, but not for 2010,in a very long and erudite post.

Here in 2010 in ROI there are two perfectly viable low cost solutions for now:

a) Actually do nothing whilst seeming to do something. Tests are the perfect technopolicy way of spinning things out whilst you decide what to do and truncate long-run (25 year + ) operating costs: a very cute move by RTENL. This means the current analogue/cable/Freesat/Sky/overspill arrangements are exploited in the interim whilst you either vacillate or formulate a long-run strategy.

b) Wait a few years till the recession is over and the T2 standard is cheap. Of course by that time there might be no market for Irish DTT and everybody is on cable or satellite or some overspill. Then forget about DTT altogether or line up with NI.

I think RTE, the broadcasters and the regulators have chosen a). Its a low risk, low cost option option which buys time: that's why TV3 have disappeared. And its the same old story since 1998. Had they gone with MPEG2 in 1998 they would now have probably had decent DTT penetration and been able to consider a switch to T2 at their leisure and bargained Sky into the ground, like the BBC did in the UK.

I don't mean to be uncharitable but Irish digital television policy has been Mickey Mouse and is now governed by Sky and, to a lesser extent, UPC. This has been the very same story since the 1950's and, putting it brutally, they never, ever, learn. The poor consumer is left to reap the whirlwind or pay Mr Murdoch. The overspill and satellite punter will be coattailing on UK economics au futur.

There is another option.

RTE withdraw from the $ky deal and remove RTE from satellite altogether. Anyone who wants RTE gets it off an aerial. That would guarantee attention, and an audience.

Wonder what would happen!

mrdtv2010

Yes indeed ! And the BBC never had the balls to do that in the UK. It would have pulled the plug on Sky just like the loss of the PL rights. But I suspect RTE don't have the guts to do that as they are dependent on cable and Sky for widespread digital distribution. Its also why the BBC created Freesat and if RTE were ever on Freesat then they would be in a far better negotiating position. In France you have Fransat for twenty euros for five years: such a FTV DSAT solution in Ireland would scrap the requirement for an Irish terrestrial DTT network. But they seem incapable at Donnybrook of creating these 'out-of-the-box' solutions. Traditionalists..

slegs

mrdtv2010 wrote: »

You need to read what is written more carefully rather than jumping to quite presumptious conclusions about T2, its costs and commercial attractiveness. It is the system for the future in Ireland as Jordy noted today over on ukfree.v, but not for 2010,in a very long and erudite post.

Here in 2010 in ROI there are two perfectly viable low cost solutions for now:

a) Actually do nothing whilst seeming to do something. Tests are the perfect technopolicy way of spinning things out whilst you decide what to do and truncate long-run (25 year + ) operating costs: a very cute move by RTENL. This means the current analogue/cable/Freesat/Sky/overspill arrangements are exploited in the interim whilst you either vacillate or formulate a long-run strategy.

b) Wait a few years till the recession is over and the T2 standard is cheap. Of course by that time there might be no market for Irish DTT and everybody is on cable or satellite or some overspill. Then forget about DTT altogether or line up with NI.

I think RTE, the broadcasters and the regulators have chosen a). Its a low risk, low cost option option which buys time: that's why TV3 have disappeared. And its the same old story since 1998. Had they gone with MPEG2 in 1998 they would now have probably had decent DTT penetration and been able to consider a switch to T2 at their leisure and bargained Sky into the ground, like the BBC did in the UK.

I don't mean to be uncharitable but Irish digital television policy has been Mickey Mouse and is now governed by Sky and, to a lesser extent, UPC. This has been the very same story since the 1950's and, putting it brutally, they never, ever, learn. The poor consumer is left to reap the whirlwind or pay Mr Murdoch. The overspill and satellite punter will be coattailing on UK economics au futur.

I agree and have never disagreed that DVB-T2 or the next step DVB-T3/T4/T5 or whatever will be the technology for the future - how can anyone argue against it? But it has very little relevance to Irish DTT today in 2010. 2010 Irish DTT has bigger problems that what the next technology will be.

slegs

slegs wrote: »

But it has very little relevance to Irish DTT today in 2010. 2010 Irish DTT has bigger problems that what the next technology will be.

I actually disagree.
The model followed as it stands is an ourselves alone approach and was and is severely flawed exactly because it's devoid of joined up thinking.
It's as if somebody somewhere in control of this project is saying "la la la dee dumm dum dee dee la la" in the hope that spillover and freesat will go away.

Whats wrong with recognising that irish people have always gone out of their way for access to uk stations?
Whats wrong with the simple cheaper idea of a merge solution whereby Ireland and the UK have the same standard?
Whats wrong with a system allowing freesat to recognise an irish address via say a verified registered phone number meaning those boxes will display the 4 irish channels aswell as the uk ones island wide ?

It's not a rocket science solution so why the gombeen approach?

Whats being protected?
In reality nothing.

A lot of damage is being done though.

mrdtv2010

slegs wrote: »

I agree and have never disagreed that DVB-T2 or the next step DVB-T3/T4/T5 or whatever will be the technology for the future - how can anyone argue against it? But it has very little relevance to Irish DTT today in 2010. 2010 Irish DTT has bigger problems that what the next technology will be.

Alas, you are right. For now the safest purchasing solutions are:

a) VHF/UHF analogue/digital MPEG4 DVB-T1 TV sets ( The bottom is about to fall out of this market with the forthcoming Sony/Pana/ Tosh T2 IDTVs from April as I see their prices falling through the floor to clear the way for the new model range.)

b) Freesat nationwide

c) Cheapo MPEG2 boxes or reuse MPEG2 TVs if you are in an overspill area

d) T2 boxes in the South East if you have the HD signal and the money.

e) Sky and UPC if you want to pay..

Sam Russell

The DTT infrastructure is there now. RTENL could launch tomorrow if the politicos would let them. If they did launch, and turn off the alalogue, they wouls save a lot of money. Analogue is dead - no replacement parts, old creaky equipment, high power requirement, etc. etc. It is not RTE that are holding back.

So we have DTT. How do we use it? Sell it to the highest bidders? Try to use it to further our culture? Use it to let Irish TV develope a home market and then sell abroad?

Almost all the plans so far are associated with how can we get the most foreign TV available for the least cost. Not very productive in the long term, look what happened to the food sector when Tesco took over Quinnsworth. Now you have to look for Irish product on the shelves. The same will happen with Irish TV production.

Rant over ......

mrdtv2010

Deleted User wrote: »

I actually disagree.
The model followed as it stands is an ourselves alone approach and was and is severely flawed exactly because it's devoid of joined up thinking.
It's as if somebody somewhere in control of this project is saying "la la la dee dumm dum dee dee la la" in the hope that spillover and freesat will go away.

Whats wrong with recognising that irish people have always gone out of their way for access to uk stations?
Whats wrong with the simple cheaper idea of a merge solution whereby Ireland and the UK have the same standard?
Whats wrong with a system allowing freesat to recognise an irish address via say a verified registered phone number meaning those boxes will display the 4 irish channels aswell as the uk ones island wide ?

It's not a rocket science solution so why the gombeen approach?

Whats being protected?
In reality nothing.

A lot of damage is being done though.

A very sensible counter argument to the 'ourselves alone' (translated from the Irish!) digital television policy standard which has, to date, failed completely, comprehensively and conclusively since 1998. Its very like the policy in the period 1953-1961. I think we are on the cusp of a watershed as the current Irish DTT policy is now a very dead duck.

slegs

Now there is a radical idea.

Announce a 12 month digital switchover plan with ASO on 1 March 2011.

Why not?

Sam Russell

slegs wrote: »

Now there is a radical idea.

Announce a 12 month digital switchover plan with ASO on 1 March 2011.

Why not?

I have been suggesting it for ages. All we need are the STBs.

If the ASO was going to be 1st June 2010, and we had enough STBs, there would not be a problem as everyone would simply go and buy one. [Assuming they were cheap - less than €30]

slegs

Sam Russell wrote: »

I have been suggesting it for ages. All we need are the STBs.

If the ASO was going to be 1st June 2010, and we had enough STBs, there would not be a problem as everyone would simply go and buy one. [Assuming they were cheap - less than €30]

Well it would immeiately get the media attention and momentum underway.

Nothing worse than a 2-4 year plan for these kind of things. Bit like a long marriage engagement - whats the point?

sesswhat

Sam Russell wrote: »

I have been suggesting it for ages. All we need are the STBs.

If the ASO was going to be 1st June 2010, and we had enough STBs, there would not be a problem as everyone would simply go and buy one. [Assuming they were cheap - less than €30]

It would be a big saving to get the main transmitters switched off but wouldn't they be pushing it at this stage to get the in fill sites changed over even by 2012?

slegs

sesswhat wrote: »

It would be a big saving to get the main transmitters switched off but wouldn't they be pushing it at this stage to get the in fill sites changed over even by 2012?

Its a money thing I would say rather than an time/effort thing.

But if its going to happen anyway and the OPEX savings post ASO can be realised sooner then surely its a no brainer business case. Spend the money this year on upgrading instead of next year and be done with it.

Biffo The Bare

10000maniacs wrote: »

Based on the analysis above we can draw key conclusions on the four areas assessed:
• The economy is expected to remain healthy overall:D
• Consumer expenditure on leisure will continue to grow, outpacing overall spend:D
• Our addressable market (TV households) is growing:D
• The proportion of ABC1s in Ireland is likely to be maintained:D
As a result, we believe that the Irish economy will provide stable market conditions which are favourable to
launch a new PayTV business.:D

Why doesn't RTE do what its paid to do?
Supply people who pay their licence fee with a TV service.
Times have moved on so now we need digital. They should get off their asses and give us a service.
Why is OneVision even involved? Why does anybody need to make a profit?
Why can't RTE supply us with around 10 free channels INCLUDING BBC 1 and BBC 2 (even the British Government have agreed to this) and maybe UTV. We can buy the boxes ourselves.
This should not be about third party profit.
Whoever came up with the commercial scenario should be fined for stupidity.:mad:

Sam Russell

Biffo The Bare wrote: »

Why doesn't RTE do what its paid to do?
Supply people who pay their licence fee with a TV service.
Times have moved on so now we need digital. They should get off their asses and give us a service.
Why is OneVision even involved? Why does anybody need to make a profit?
Why can't RTE supply us with around 10 free channels INCLUDING BBC 1 and BBC 2 (even the British Government have agreed to this) and maybe UTV. We can buy the boxes ourselves.
This should not be about third party profit.
Whoever came up with the commercial scenario should be fined for stupidity.:mad:

It is NOT RTE, it is BAI or the Dept that are stopping it. RTENL HAVE got off their arses and provided the infrastructure. BAI and their predecessor have been in negotiations with Boxer and OneVision since forever and still no deal. That is where the blame lies.

Free channels cost money or they force us to watch crap adverts. The Dept can change their mind on the Beeb from Monday (FTA) to Thursday the same week (Not FTA), so with decision making like that what can you expect. At least blame the ones responsible for the sad mess.

10000maniacs

Sam Russell wrote: »

The Dept can change their mind on the Beeb from Monday (FTA) to Thursday the same week (Not FTA), so with decision making like that what can you expect. At least blame the ones responsible for the sad mess.

Thats true, but why did the Dept change its mind on the beeb? My guess is that One Vision theathened to pull the plug.
I agree with the above that if One Vision were taken out of the equasion, we would have at least RTE1, RTE2, TV3, TG4, RTE News, BBC 1 and BBC 2 on the multiplex fairly soon.
If a top Up TV premium channel consortium hopped on in a few years, great, but please for the love of Christ put out what we can get for free now. Its the very least we should expect for €160.00 a year ( €13.00 P/M) and is about 10 years too late.

Sam Russell

The whole problem as I see it that is preventing launch is the STB.

RTE could go ahead, the network is built already. What is stopping the launch is the commercial side - what encryption will they use? If a cheap standard STB [FTA] was approved and available in the shops, the current 'tests' could become a 'service'. I]People would have to understand that they would not be compatible with the PAYTV service[/I. Then a firm schedule for ASO could be set. We do not need to turn all transmitters off on the same day. Start with 3Rock as it has the fullest area for cable and satellite, and some overspill from Kippure. Once the dust has settled, close off the others, one by one. The various fill in stations would go as their feeder was turned off.

The commercial encryption requirement would have to be solved by the operator of the commercial muxes. In its original submission, Onevision did not see that it would subsidise the STBs, but then again it expected that digital overspill would end after ASO.

We are at 85% coverage already, enough to go ahead.

10000maniacs

Sam Russell wrote: »

People would have to understand that they would not be compatible with the PAYTV service.

Why not?
Any STB would have a slot for a conditional access module. This would handle any encryption for the top up tv scenario while allowing FTA as well.

Sam Russell

10000maniacs wrote: »

Why not?
Any STB would have a slot for a conditional access module. This would handle any encryption for the top up tv scenario while allowing FTA as well.

This is not so for the cheapest STBs. Low cost is important if rapid take up is required. Onevision expected STBs to cost €70. I think a €30 price point is required for FTA take up - therfore no CA slot. The more expensive units would of course be an option, but I think most initial users would not be interested.

STB

Its all very well for people who reside outside the state to pick holes in our platform. They should be more concerned about their own.

Here in Ireland, we are not dependent on the UK for TV technology. Anyone who actually wants British Free TV does not need to depend on terrestrial overspill and shouldnt. It is not a solution for 90% of the country as it isnt receivable. Satellite is a perfect solution for this and will continue to be.

Therefore DVBT2 is irrelevant as will be those products for the next 5 years.

I have never seen such rubbish being posted (well I have actually, incidentally from the same poster) about markets for MPEG4 DVBT falling through the ground to make way for dvbt2. NONSENSE. There are MILLIONS of MPEG4 DVBT products out there as a result of the HUGE populations using that technology. That is the simple economics of it. (There is life outside the UK MRDTV - its called Europe btw)

The price point however for MPEG4 DVBT will not reach €30 though. That is an impossible price point right now. The French population base could only get them down to €60.

The UK have serious headaches ahead trying to get the average punter to move to DVBT2 (for most it wont matter and wont be an option as long as cheaper products are out there - nevermind the legacy stuff also out there). When you way up the options there is not much to be gained for the average John by switching now!

STB

STB wrote: »

Its all very well for people who reside outside the state to pick holes in our platform. They should be more concerned about their own.

Here in Ireland, we are not dependent on the UK for TV technology. Anyone who actually wants British Free TV does not need to depend on terrestrial overspill and shouldnt. It is not a solution for 90% of the country as it isnt receivable. Satellite is a perfect solution for this and will continue to be.

Therefore DVBT2 is irrelevant as will be those products for the next 5 years.

I have never seen such rubbish being posted (well I have actually, incidentally from the same poster) about markets for MPEG4 DVBT falling through the ground to make way for dvbt2. NONSENSE. There are MILLIONS of MPEG4 DVBT products out there as a result of the HUGE populations using that technology. That is the simple economics of it. (There is life outside the UK MRDTV - its called Europe btw)

The price point however for MPEG4 DVBT will not reach €30 though. That is an impossible price point right now. The French population base could only get them down to €60.

The UK have serious headaches ahead trying to get the average punter to move to DVBT2 (for most it wont matter and wont be an option as long as cheaper products are out there - nevermind the legacy stuff also out there). When you way up the options there is not much to be gained for the average John by switching now!

Much as you'd like to dismiss it, the point is valid.
Joined up thinking and cost effectiveness should dictate that we don't ignore what is happening in the state next door tv wise given it's where the bulk of our popular tv is sourced.
We should compliment it.

I wonder what would happen if we ran with Betamax video's all those years ago and refused to adopt VHS or were only doing so now?
Thats the krux of it.

Mayo Exile

I can see the validity in mrdtv’s point about market forces deciding this to some extent (especially with regards to TVs being sold here). However at the moment this has lead to unintended bad consequences for the publicity for Irish DTT. In other words, the selling of MPEG2 only equipment in the Irish market and the annoyance of the punter who buys this stuff and gets home finding out he’s bought a rather expensive radio.

However in time, TVs with T2 tuners WILL be sold here as MPEG2 TVs still are now. TV manufacturers will sell the equipment here regardless of standards. I believe they see us as a join on to the UK market. Backwards compatibility with any variant of DVB-T should ensure that they work. Irish DTT can launch in DVB-T/MPEG4 if it wants too, at least if Joe Bloggs buys a T2 set not knowing what standard DTT is here, it should work when he gets it home and unintended GOOD consequences should flow from that. Toshiba gave details of their Freeview HD range of sets for launch in April and according to them, these TV’s will cost £100 more than their SD equivalent. Not much at launch and sure to narrow to little or nothing in time.

Link: http://blog.wotsat.com/page/whatsat?entry=april_launch_for_toshiba_freeview

Personally I have 3 DVB-T/MPEG4 tellys in the house and I am very pleased with what DTT can offer me and would be well happy if Irish DTT was launched in this standard. (Please Eamon Ryan just launch the bloody thing!!). Getting the signal so easily, makes DTT my favourite platform. My mate bought a 40” Samsung TV during the week and when I plugged in a half chewed up set of rabbits ears and showed them DTT they were well gobsmacked (they have Sky at the moment).

Watty gave a sound piece of advice on here once: treat your TV as a monitor and make sure the socketry on it can do the job for the future.

Sam Russell

Mayo Exile wrote: »

Please Eamon Ryan just launch the bloody thing!!

I agree 100%. Why the wait?

STB

Deleted User wrote: »

Much as you'd like to dismiss it, the point is valid.
Joined up thinking and cost effectiveness should dictate that we don't ignore what is happening in the state next door tv wise given it's where the bulk of our popular tv is sourced.
We should compliment it.

I wonder what would happen if we ran with Betamax video's all those years ago and refused to adopt VHS or were only doing so now?
Thats the krux of it.

DVBT2 is not relevant now to the UK OR Ireland. For the very reason that you have stated - cost effectiveness. Ireland will get its cost effectivesness from the TVs manufactured for other Markets such as France and Poland and Germany actually!

I'm not saying DVBT2 is a bad thing - of course technology will move on. But thats 5 years at least down the road for the UK nevermind Ireland who dont need to move to DVBT2 now. We have chosen our platform. Space on the UHF band is NOT tight and wont be come DSO and ASO.

As far as I know (and I may be wrong) this is a discussion board about Irish Terrestrial TV. I'm just wondering why it is being hijacked constantly by Freeview discussions which are only receivable in ROI as a result of overspill and should not be depended upon. The Freesat platform does cover Ireland and should be the No.1 option for those that want FREE TV from Britain.

It is confusing people who come here to discuss Irish Terretrial Television. I am wondering what the motives are to be honest. I would hope its just stupidity.

Mayo Exile wrote: »

However in time, TVs with T2 tuners WILL be sold here as MPEG2 TVs still are now. TV manufacturers will sell the equipment here regardless of standards. I believe they see us as a join on to the UK market. Backwards compatibility with any variant of DVB-T should ensure that they work. Irish DTT can launch in DVB-T/MPEG4 if it wants too, at least if Joe Bloggs buys a T2 set not knowing what standard DTT is here, it should work when he gets it home and unintended GOOD consequences should flow from that. Toshiba gave details of their Freeview HD range of sets for launch in April and according to them, these TV’s will cost £100 more than their SD equivalent. Not much at launch and sure to narrow to little or nothing in time.

Personally I have 3 DVB-T/MPEG4 tellys in the house and I am very pleased with what DTT can offer me and would be well happy if Irish DTT was launched in this standard. (Please Eamon Ryan just launch the bloody thing!!). Getting the signal so easily, makes DTT my favourite platform. My mate bought a 40” Samsung TV during the week and when I plugged in a half chewed up set of rabbits ears and showed them DTT they were well gobsmacked (they have Sky at the moment).

Watty gave a sound piece of advice on here once: treat your TV as a monitor and make sure the socketry on it can do the job for the future.

DVBT2 stock will only be relevant when it reaches an equivelant price point. Unfortunately MPEG2 equipment will be in the public domain for some time in the UK until the UK government actually firmly commit to a format for their SD stations which remain in MPEG2. Unfortunately the UK using MPEG4 on DVBT2 for a couple of HD stations and then continuing to use MPEG2 on DVBT for SD broadcasts is a mess for the UK as they are not compatible unless you upgrade! That is a HUGE transition period. Unfortunately for Ireland that means that cheap UK stock continues to be availale in your dixons and curry's etc!

In Ireland shortly you may see an announcement during the ASO and DSO transition period that Digital Tuners will have to be MPEG4 and be stocked by retailers and that Freeview MPEG2 SD products are not to be stocked.

Treating LCDs as panels is all very well if you include no tuners. In the first instance, that defeats the purpose of TVs as the general public knows it. Secondly it wont as most manufacturers include one. It will not help DSO. The technology we have adopted is clear and has been published some time ago. http://www.digitaltelevision.ie/National+DTT/Useful+Information.htm

The points in red are in that colour for retailers (who were written to by Dept of Comms over a year ago) for a reason.

Mayo Exile

STB wrote: »

In Ireland shortly you may see an announcement during the ASO and DSO transition period that Digital Tuners will have to be MPEG4 and be stocked by retailers and that Freeview MPEG2 SD products are not to be stocked.

Yes STB, hopefully this happens soon. I dont want to see people buying stuff that doesn't work with Irish DTT. I am personally not pushing for DTT here to adopt the T2 standard, just that if T2 products are sold here then they should work here, so subsequently those that buy these TV's wont be disappointed.