Advice on CFA EXAM and Msc in Financial Services

rocky2

Hello,


Firstly I have put this in the Investment area as I felt this is where I would get the feedback I needed.


I am considering undertaking an Msc in Financial Services in UL, this year if I get accepted, from this I would plan to do the 1st CFA exam. Looking for a completely new career, and just finishing BComm which I done on a part-time basis over the last 4 years.

Can anyone tell me, do you have to be a mathematical genius to undertake the CFA exams/Msc programme in UL? I hear great things about the course in UL, however is a masters in financial services the daftest thing to be doing at the moment? Would this Msc help you in these current times,and does the CFA improve career prospects.

Thank you in advance.

woodseb

from personal experience, being no maths whizz myself, the CFA isn't that bad

there's prehaps around 10-15% of the first two levels in stats, which goes from hypothesis testing to regression, time-series etc. Anybody with a bcomm should be able to handle it. It won't harm your career prospects to have the exam as although many more are doing it, the pass rate is still low

ixus

I did the MSc in UL have a look at my post history and there should be something about it in there.

I highly recommend it.

You don't have to be a maths whizz.

Haven't the time now but I'll try and answer your questions later.

Be handy to know what you are looking to get out of tha MSc and/or CFA?
What career path you are looking for.

rocky2

Firstly, Thank you for taking time to reply to my query.

What I would like to achieve out of the Msc in Financial Services is a job within a top tier investment company/Bank and would be hoping for a front office position, I totally understand that I will be starting at the bottom, but would like to see myself in a commodity trading position within a few years, I would also love to work for a top tier consultancy firm, that would be dealing with financial services companies etc. I am thinking that it I will have to go to London to find any such positions, but willing to do so.

I should also add, that I have returned to college on a part time basis, finishing the Bcomm this year. I have worked within the hospitality sector for the last 16+ years, and have no experience within the finance industry. So one of the reasons that I had intended to do the Msc in Financial Services, and start the CFA exams was that when I went for an interview that I would be bring something extra to the table as such. The financial world was a different place when I started the Bcomm almost 4 years ago, and I have to admit that I am asking myself lately am I absolutely mad looking to get into the financial sector. I should also add that I am 35+.

So, if you can give me any good honest advice etc, I will really appreciate it.

Many Thanks,

Rocky2

woodseb

to be honest, i think you will find it extremely difficult to get into a front office trading position without a strong maths background - there are many other interesting positions in investment banks that you could possibly get a foot in the door in middle office perhaps. Given your age and lack of relevant experience you will have to arm yourself with as much education and drive as possible to get into the area you want considering you will be competing against the best graduates to get a start. That said, don't give up too quickly, you should be able to pick up a back office job at least with those qualifications or maybe a smaller hedge fund and maybe push on from there - good luck

Priapus

Hi there!

I'm no expert on either the MSc or CFA, but you know you can do the CFA outright without doing the MSc? Sometimes universities sell the idea that you need to do their course to pass certain professional exams. CFA officially is a self study course. I would seriously question how valuable doing the MSc is, in comparison to just studying the CFA material independently.

Also, if you are trying to break into financial services I think having a level or two of the CFA under your belt would be very impressive. But TBH MSc from UL when looking for work in London won't reap as many rewards for your effort. So it's a large expenditure for questionable returns.

soddy1979

You absolutely do not have to be a mathematical genius to do the CFA exams. I've passed level 1 & gone through all the material in level 2 and it is not too technically difficult. You just need to put in the time.

You would probably need to go to London to get a front office job, but you can also take your Bcomm and study for the CFA charter in a back or middle office job (which you will find much easier to get), and then try to move internally. It will take you a few years to pass the exams anyway.

And don't limit your outlook to trading, as woodseb said, there are plenty of other interesting & rewarding areas in financial institutions.

rocky2

Thank you for your honest replies, I genuinely appreciate all your feedback and time.

I totally agree with you in regards to not just focus on trading, to be honest I am simply interested in all aspects of business. The main purpose of doing a Msc would be to have as much knowledge under my belt as possible. I have also been advised that a MSc in International Management would be a good option, and to do the CFA at the same time, then I also get some people telling me that I should focus on getting an accountancy qualification instead of a CFA as it will provide me with more options whether in banking, consultancy etc.

Can you tell me, will my age be viewed as a drawback, honestly?

soddy1979

It shouldn't, but I think some firms do prefer graduates. That shouldn't deter you though. If you are bright, and determined, you should get a role.

Rocky, can you tell me what your background is? If you have worked in industry, getting your CFA charter would definitely help you get in as an investment analyst. In this case, your age (well more so your experience) would be a benefit as opposed to a hindrance.

I am in my thirties, and I am pretty sure I am on the right track to getting the role I want. I've had to be patient, and I'm not there yet, but the best thing I did was join the CFA program.

woodseb

if your one and only goal is to get into front office trading i do think your age will be a disadvantage. assistant traders/ juniors are treated as general dogsbodies on trading floors initially (getting coffees, lunch etc) and work very long hours while gaining good experience. As you can imagine this could be pyschologically difficult for somebody 35+ and i think those in recruitment would be cognisant of that too....

doing the accountancy is useful in many analyst jobs, but it is a hard slog and lacks focus for the area i think you want to get into and may not benefit you as quickly as doing the CFA (assuming you would not be able to work and study for both qualifications at the same time)

rocky2

Soddy1979,My background is in the hospitality sector, I have working in the catering industry for almost 20 years, I also have international experience and have worked with some of the best people in the business, but its time for a change. I do know that its going to be a huge transtion,that’s if I can get a job, but it is something I just have to do, simply no passion anymore for the job.

Woodsed, trading etc is not my one and only goal.I do agree with you,that I would find it hard to be a dogs body,in saying that I would have no problem whatsoever being told what to do from some one younger,but would not be willing to be treated as a tea boy.I want a job, where I am going to be challenged as I enjoy working under pressure (good pressure) and in an environment where there is continuous learning.

Thank you for your feedback.

soddy1979

Hi Rocky2,

Why not try and bring your experience in the hospitality sector to the table as an analyst. 20 years industry experience is a lot, and I'm sure you could bring very insightful knowledge of the sector & possibly related sectors to the investment process. Companies like their analysts to have extensive knowledge of the sectors they cover (and that knowledge is gained through experience).

rocky2

soddy1979, thanks for your input.Food for thought I suppose.....excuse the pun.

I know that I need to show the positives of my experience,people skills etc.

Thanks a lot.

zillion

Hi Rocky,

Just to let you know that there is an MSc Corporate Finance course in UCC as well, this is its first year but part of the aim of the course is to develop relationships with people in the industry. I am currently studying it myself and am finding it to be a very good course. A lot of the lecturers have investment banking experience, VC experience etc.

We also took a trip to Morgan Stanley in London where few Irish speakers from all levels in the company shared their experiences and gave us their tips for applying to the investment banks. We also had an MD from Morgan Stanley visit the class as well as the CEO of Greencore and CFO with Kerry Group (and partners/directors from the big 4 etc).

Just thought I'd let you know in case it was of any interest to you. I have a friend doing the course in Limerick and he has very good things to say about that as well.

rocky2

Zillion,



Thanks for your post. I have had a quick look at this and it does sound very good. Do you gain any exemptions towards accountancy exams by doing this course? Do you want to share any tips that were given for applying to investment banks in London?

The reason I have such interest in the Msc in UL is that it seems to be very industry focused, in that it prepares you for employment.

Again, Thank you for your reply, much appreciated.

zillion

Rocky2,

Regarding the exemptions toward the accountancy exams, as far as I'm aware there are no exemptions but the focus is a lot more on how to analyse financial statements and reformulate them to suit the problem you are trying to solve. There isn't a need for previous accountancy studies at all and this is reflected with the lack of exemptions I suppose. We would be looking more at valuing companies, valuing projects, understanding the markets and analyzing business performance.

From what I can see investment banking must be one of the most difficult industries in the world to get in started in. You have to remember that you are competing with thousands of graduates from some of the best colleges in the world and in particular OxBridge if you are applying for work in London. Many people in my class with outstanding academic records didn't even get a first round interview with the investment banks so you'll have to be prepared for rejection (I could definitely give tips on that:)). Their online applications take quite a while to fill out so I'd recommend you keep an eye on the websites for the opening dates of the application procedure. The most important thing is to fill out as many as possible and make yourself out to be as rounded an individual as possible. Your probably well advised to seek advice on your covering letter as well as a lot of them ask for one in your application and it can really help you stand out from the crowd. We were given some metrics that a top tier investment bank in New York use to judge their interns. If you were lucky enough to get an interview it would be no harm to show you possess them if possible. They are listed below.

1. Proactively ask questions
2. Appropriate body language
3. Clear communication
4. Listening
5. Well prepared
6. Reasonable knowledge (FT Economist)
7. Ambition and drive
8. Work with other people

The investment banks are known for over hiring when times are good and making too many people redundant in the bad times, who knows what way things will be this time next year but it could work well for you. I don't know what else to say but best of luck.

Lastly, regarding the preparation for employment we have had many seminars on professional skills. All of these have been performed by professionals brought in from outside of the university, we have received coaching on PowerPoint and Excel while also worked hard on improving our presentation skills. We have received help from a man named Robert Freeburn who used to be high up in Eton College and now provides presentation and speaking skills to CEO's etc. worldwide. The focus on professional skills is probably one of the main attractions to the course.

Sorry, one more thing, we don't actually do a thesis earlier, we will be doing real projects for 5 big companies instead. This year these include Kerry Group and Smurfit Kappa. I don't know much more about this but can let you know when I know if you would like. As I mentioned we also have speakers from industry in every Friday so this course is trying to build up extensive relations with in industry and practice. While it may not matter to me (as this is the first year), these relations will hopefully pay dividends for future students.

9332EDWARD

Hi

Has anyone any opinions on M.Sc. in Financial and Industrial Maths (PAC Code: DC704) in DCU.

One of the positives is it only costs 4500 euro..

Any Opinions.

rocky2

Zillion,

Thank you for your comprehensive reply.

The course seems very good, in soft skills such as, presentation skills etc, which are all very important. However, I am looking to gain some hard skills, due to my age etc, I want/need to be able to bring as many skills as possible to a potential employer, this is why I am looking at the CFA, ACCA etc, also I want to gain that added qualification I am actually thinking about applying for the CFA this year as I do think this is the one that will benefit me more in the long run, but am concerned that I might be biting off more than I can chew, with degree exams etc in May.

I friend of mine who is involved in graduate recruitment in London (not Financial services) has told me that this year the firm they work for are not taking any graduates from Oxford etc, and are looking at Universities they have never considered before, whether this is a trend or not I cannot say. If I get any helpful advice or tips I will pass it on.

Thanks for your time,

rocky2

IXUS,

I have viewed your comments on the UL Msc,sounds very good.
Thank you for your reply

zillion

Rocky2,

Ya, I would imagine they're not a million miles away from each other in terms of content anyway.

If I hear anything in college in terms of recruitment or anything like that I'll post it up here anyway. Best of luck anyway if you decide on the course in Limerick. I know that I've enjoyed studying the subject anyway!

All the best.

rocky2

rocky2 wrote: »

Firstly, Thank you for taking time to reply to my query.

What I would like to achieve out of the Msc in Financial Services is a job within a top tier investment company/Bank and would be hoping for a front office position, I totally understand that I will be starting at the bottom, but would like to see myself in a commodity trading position within a few years, I would also love to work for a top tier consultancy firm, that would be dealing with financial services companies etc. I am thinking that it I will have to go to London to find any such positions, but willing to do so.

I should also add, that I have returned to college on a part time basis, finishing the Bcomm this year. I have worked within the hospitality sector for the last 16+ years, and have no experience within the finance industry.

Rocky2

Don't mean to sound negative but you will find it difficult to make this transition. I-banks like to employ bright eyed and bushy tailed 22 year old graduates who they treat as slaves. Those who don't burn out will advance (less than 1/2). The oldest that an i-bank would take someone on is very early 30's and that would be someone coming out of a top-mba school (e.g. Insead).
The best suggestion, as someone else said, for you would be to sell yourself as a sectoral equity analyst based on the hospitality industry when you have your cfa or accounting qualification but you will have to be able to demonstrate real sectoral expertise for a job that specialised (i.e. focussing exclusively on the hospitality sector) and would mean going to London.