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When did Boxrec change John Duddy's nationality to Irish?

Comments

  • #2
    jimjo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 717 ✭✭✭jimjo


    Its been like that for a good while now, over a year at least.


  • #3
    colly10
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,017 ✭✭✭colly10


    bamboozler wrote: »
    just noticed john duddy now has an irish flag on Boxrec after all the online petitions and complaints. Just like to know if i just missed it and it was changed ages ago.

    http://boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_id=213891&cat=boxer

    Probably changed the day after he lost to Billy Lyell :D


  • #4
    Vintagekits
    Closed Accounts Posts: 942 ✭✭✭Vintagekits


    colly10 wrote: »
    Probably changed the day after he lost to Billy Lyell :D

    :D

    Actually the bould John Shepard (guy that owns BoxRec that we had all the trouble with) came up and introduced himself to me at the Hatton show in Altrincham the other week.

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055161316


  • #5
    Big Ears
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,004 ✭✭✭Big Ears


    I got changed when boxrec decided fighters(or their management) could choose which rankings a fighter wanted to be part of. EG. fighter from Poland fights the majority of his career in the United States so he can change his nationality ranking to US if he wishes because he wants to be ranked alongside the other fighters where he is based.

    Boxrec have not actually recognised Duddy as being Irish, merely acknowledged that he wants to be ranked among Irish fighters.

    At one point Andy Lee was ranked as American, and you'll find a lot of the time it's the admins who will change a fighters nationality to what they want regardless of if they'd had contact from a fighter/fighter's management.

    Duddy originally started out on boxrec as Irish, and was then changed to UK after he blitzed prospect Lenoard Pierre in a round. He was changed back a few times, but only briefly as the change never had the backing of boxrec's anti-Irish owner John Shep. Thankfully the current situation avoids fighters having to be listed as a nationality that they are not part of against their will.


  • #6
    bamboozler
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 118 ✭✭bamboozler


    looks i dragged up a bit of an old topic then, i remember all the hassle before but never knew wot happened in the end and jus saw him marked up as Irish today

    thanks for all the replies anyway lads :)


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  • #7
    Vintagekits
    Closed Accounts Posts: 942 ✭✭✭Vintagekits


    Big Ears wrote: »
    I got changed when boxrec decided fighters(or their management) could choose which rankings a fighter wanted to be part of. EG. fighter from Poland fights the majority of his career in the United States so he can change his nationality ranking to US if he wishes because he wants to be ranked alongside the other fighters where he is based.

    Boxrec have not actually recognised Duddy as being Irish, merely acknowledged that he wants to be ranked among Irish fighters.

    At one point Andy Lee was ranked as American, and you'll find a lot of the time it's the admins who will change a fighters nationality to what they want regardless of if they'd had contact from a fighter/fighter's management.

    Duddy originally started out on boxrec as Irish, and was then changed to UK after he blitzed prospect Lenoard Pierre in a round. He was changed back a few times, but only briefly as the change never had the backing of boxrec's anti-Irish owner John Shep. Thankfully the current situation avoids fighters having to be listed as a nationality that they are not part of against their will.

    Actually they switched it from "country rated in" back to nationality which I'm not happy about.

    Its basically down to Shepard. I think he is working for the Hattons now so I will probably bump into him again - if I do I will have a word with him about our concerns.


  • #8
    bamboozler
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 118 ✭✭bamboozler


    Vintagekits wrote: »
    Actually they switched it from "country rated in" back to nationality which I'm not happy about.

    Its basically down to Shepard. I think he is working for the Hattons now so I will probably bump into him again - if I do I will have a word with him about our concerns.

    Why is their an issue with how they switched it from "country rated in" back to nationality, i thought nationality would be better?

    Also Vintagekits, out of interest, how are you involved in boxing and how do you know the hattons, ignore me if that is not too much of a personal question


  • #9
    Vintagekits
    Closed Accounts Posts: 942 ✭✭✭Vintagekits


    bamboozler wrote: »
    Why is their an issue with how they switched it from "country rated in" back to nationality, i thought nationality would be better?

    Also Vintagekits, out of interest, how are you involved in boxing and how do you know the hattons, ignore me if that is not too much of a personal question

    Well I live in Manchester, if I was a professional boxer it wouldnt bother me if I was rated in the United Kingdom rankings but it would bother me if someone said my nationality as British


  • #10
    bamboozler
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 118 ✭✭bamboozler


    Vintagekits wrote: »
    Well I live in Manchester, if I was a professional boxer it wouldnt bother me if I was rated in the United Kingdom rankings but it would bother me if someone said my nationality as British


    oh sorry didnt quite understand the first time because i was lookin at this below for a 'country rated in' on the left hand side of his boxrec page instead of nationality so my mistake

    alias Ireland's John Duddy
    nationality Ireland
    residence New York, New York, United States


    I reread BigEars and your post and makes sense now.

    So essentially although they have him as Irish nationality but this is purely based on the national rankings he is placed in and not representing his actual nationality so if he went doing fights in China he could put realistically be changed some day to be down as Chinese.

    PS thanks for clearing up my other query as well


  • #11
    makl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 710 ✭✭✭makl


    from boxrec archives

    [when boxers] are British licensed, [such as] Matthew Macklin
    ...they fall into the category of British rated boxers.


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  • #12
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    they probably got tired of all my threads over there :D


  • #13
    T-K-O
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,309 ✭✭✭T-K-O


    because he is Irish.


  • #14
    Vintagekits
    Closed Accounts Posts: 942 ✭✭✭Vintagekits


    In truth they are bullshítters and move the goal posts to suit their personal point of view. They have given me numerous differing stories on various occasions as to the criteria with which they choose the boxers rating country/nationality.First it was what country they boxed in, then it was what passport they held, then it was where they fought the majority of their fights and now its who licences them.For example what country is Luis Garcia and Alexia Acosta registered in?


  • #15
    Dirty whore!
    Closed Accounts Posts: 91 ✭✭Dirty whore!


    Vintagekits wrote: »
    In truth they are bullshítters and move the goal posts to suit their personal point of view. They have given me numerous differing stories on various occasions as to the criteria with which they choose the boxers rating country/nationality.First it was what country they boxed in, then it was what passport they held, then it was where they fought the majority of their fights and now its who licences them.For example what country is Luis Garcia and Alexia Acosta registered in?
    What about boxrecs rankings? would you take them with a pinch of salt also?


  • #16
    Vintagekits
    Closed Accounts Posts: 942 ✭✭✭Vintagekits


    Dirty whore! wrote: »
    What about boxrecs rankings? would you take them with a pinch of salt also?

    I've no issues with their ranking system, its an attempt to be fair in an industry that is notoriously unfair. Sure there are plenty anomalies but they give a fairly accurate reflection of who stands where at any given time - definitely gives you more of a steer than looking at any of the ABC organisations rankings.


  • #17
    Big Ears
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,004 ✭✭✭Big Ears


    Vintagekits wrote: »
    I've no issues with their ranking system, its an attempt to be fair in an industry that is notoriously unfair. Sure there are plenty anomalies but they give a fairly accurate reflection of who stands where at any given time - definitely gives you more of a steer than looking at any of the ABC organisations rankings.

    Except the IBO who also use computerised rankings.
    The IBO's rankings are better than boxrec's too.


  • #18
    Vintagekits
    Closed Accounts Posts: 942 ✭✭✭Vintagekits


    Big Ears wrote: »
    Except the IBO who also use computerised rankings.
    The IBO's rankings are better than boxrec's too.

    I wouldnt disagree with that either - typing my previous post I knew you would be the first to reply mate, IBO rankings are your favourite topic, well that and some east Asian boxer that I should have heard of but havent.


  • #19
    Dirty whore!
    Closed Accounts Posts: 91 ✭✭Dirty whore!


    Vintagekits wrote: »
    I've no issues with their ranking system, its an attempt to be fair in an industry that is notoriously unfair. Sure there are plenty anomalies but they give a fairly accurate reflection of who stands where at any given time - definitely gives you more of a steer than looking at any of the ABC organisations rankings.
    Im the same i never think boxrecs rankings are million miles away from truth.Boxers nationalitys should always come down to the boxers choice and their eligibility for that country and shouldnt be boxrecs choice really.As for what the other guy said about the IBOs computerised rankings which are in my eyes also much more realistic than say the prestigious WBCs rankings which are usually a joke, shame nobody gives a **** about the IBO belt.


  • #20
    Vintagekits
    Closed Accounts Posts: 942 ✭✭✭Vintagekits


    Dirty whore! wrote: »
    Boxers nationalitys should always come down to the boxers choice and their eligibility for that country and shouldnt be boxrecs choice reallybelt.

    at the end of the day it is a private website owned by John Sheppard and he can list fighters nationalities as Martian if he so desires but his attitude with respect to this issue eats away at his credability from my perspective - but I doubt he cares about that or what Irish fans think as we arnt exactly a major force in world boxing to be honest.


  • #21
    makl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 710 ✭✭✭makl


    Dirty whore! wrote: »
    What about boxrecs rankings? would you take them with a pinch of salt also?

    Hundreds of pages online criticisin them


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  • #22
    Dirty whore!
    Closed Accounts Posts: 91 ✭✭Dirty whore!


    makl wrote: »
    Hundreds of pages online criticisin them
    Do you mean criticism?


  • #23
    makl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 710 ✭✭✭makl


    Dirty whore! wrote: »
    Do you mean criticism?

    no, criticising. loads of pages criticising the boxrec system.


  • #24
    Vintagekits
    Closed Accounts Posts: 942 ✭✭✭Vintagekits


    makl wrote: »
    no, criticising. loads of pages criticising the boxrec system.

    what is it exactly that they are criticisin?


  • #25
    makl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 710 ✭✭✭makl


    formula used for calculatin can never not be subjective - hard to overcome.

    p4p rankings also attract a lot of criticism.

    i've come across far more scathing but sometimes unbased accusations but here are 2 good examples

    one insight from eastsideboxing forum

    ...................anyone who can't see this doesn't understand how computer rankings work. Boxrec's rankings are done similarly to RPI in American collegiate basketball. A chunk of the rating comes from the power of the fighter's record, a chunk comes from his opponent's records, and a chunk comes from his opponent's opponent's records, so a ranking can quite easily move without someone ever fighting. The biggest chunk comes from opponent's records, not the fighter's record itself.

    Boxrec's rankings are imperfect, but the're relatively useful for figuring out the relative strength of untested fighters, and they're a hell of a lot better than the ABC rankings. Sure, most knowledgeable individuals could probably put together better rankings, but their rankings do pretty accurately reflect results. They just don't seem to take things like lapse of time into account enough, or whether someone's level of competition is improving or getting worse.

    also

    boxrec posts discussing it at http://boxrec.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=28051


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