How do you tell if a karate club is good?

StormWarrior

I've just started karate at a large club in my area (not in Ireland so no point saying which one it is.) But I've never done karate before, so what are some things I should look out for to tell me if this is a good club where I'll learn karate properly, or a "mcdojo" as people call the sloppier places?

JohnMc1

StormWarrior wrote: »

I've just started karate at a large club in my area (not in Ireland so no point saying which one it is.) But I've never done karate before, so what are some things I should look out for to tell me if this is a good club where I'll learn karate properly, or a "mcdojo" as people call the sloppier places?

If you're getting promoted every couple of months just because you show up then its a McDojo. If you are not executing a technique properly and you advance in rank then that is a school that should be avoided.

The Karate Classes I am taking now are the opposite. There is only gradings every 6 months and we won't be sparring until April or May plus the instructor really breaks down the techniques for us.

StormWarrior

So is it bad if the class is made up of people of all different ranks and you spar and do all the other things right from the start?

JohnMc1

StormWarrior wrote: »

So is it bad if the class is made up of people of all different ranks and you spar and do all the other things right from the start?

That's really up to the instructor's discretion. Usually they have you wait a few months so you can improve your conditioning and learn the techniques so you can apply them when its time to spar.

FruitLover

StormWarrior wrote: »

So is it bad if the class is made up of people of all different ranks and you spar and do all the other things right from the start?

Sounds good to me, although I'd consider it best if beginners weren't doing full free sparring right off the bat (people get over-excited and teeth get lost). Normally newbies would start with something like 5-step sparring.

bujinkanjiyu

I think to find the art you like you go through 2 processes:

- try lots of dfferent arts
- try lots of different clubs within the art that suits you

if any instructor tells you this is "not on" you can put them on your black-list and find another.

In the end, this leg-work is worth it.

poconnor16

Grading should never be rushed into - a lot of Dojo's are now pushing them every 3 months. Gradings should only be for students that have trained regulalry, have a good knowledge for their rank etc...everyone learns at a different rate so it cant just be set at 3 months.
Classes should be split into adults and children IMO. It is ridiculous for adults to practive sparring techniques against children.
Ideally you should be training with your own grade (I'm assuming you are a white belt?). This allows you to focus on your basics and kata with people at your level.
Check into what associations the club has? Who is the head Sensei of that association i.e. who grades the black belts? Has the club competed internationally?
And try to find out more about your Sensei - what Dan are they? How long have they trained?
A good ettiquite in the Dojo can be a good indicator also. Do the students show the appropriate respect in the dojo?
Feel free to PM me if you want to know anymore, I've seen enough McDojo's to make me study another art.:)

StormWarrior

Thanks for the replies. At my dojos the gradings are every three months. I don't know if they just automatically put people up though. One of the teachers said he likes everyone to have done at least 26 classes before being considered for grading. There are some seperate adults classes and some where adults and kids come together. All of the grades are put in class together though. But if they put the white belts seperately they'd sometimes only have one person in a class. The classes sometimes have one white, one orange, one yellow, one red and a few black belts, so I guess it wouldn't be worth their while to give seperate classes for each belt. But they do give each belt their own exercises and usually check that we're doing it rigt. Respect is a big thing in the dojo, everyone does all the bowing and stuff. They also get outside karate people to come and give seminars every couple of months. Do you think it sounds ok?

joepenguin

StormWarrior wrote: »

Thanks for the replies. At my dojos the gradings are every three months. I don't know if they just automatically put people up though. One of the teachers said he likes everyone to have done at least 26 classes before being considered for grading. There are some seperate adults classes and some where adults and kids come together. All of the grades are put in class together though. But if they put the white belts seperately they'd sometimes only have one person in a class. The classes sometimes have one white, one orange, one yellow, one red and a few black belts, so I guess it wouldn't be worth their while to give seperate classes for each belt. But they do give each belt their own exercises and usually check that we're doing it rigt. Respect is a big thing in the dojo, everyone does all the bowing and stuff. They also get outside karate people to come and give seminars every couple of months. Do you think it sounds ok?

Yeah that sound ok. Bit of a mix in grades so you will have someone of your own level, some a few ranks ahead of you so they have just recently went through what you are doing now which is always helpful and a few of the higher grades like black belts always act as secondary coaches so there is benefits to training with them all.
Plus for the most part it seems you will be brought on at your own level and because it doesnt seem like a big club you will get more personal tuition.

Maybe they hold gradings every 3 months but only people eligible for the grades do it? Basically your first few grades will be 2-3 months apart, then 4-5 months apart, 6 months between brown belts and a year before black with several years between dan grades. That would be in or around the norm anyway.

So as long as they are of good standard and you think you would enjoy it put that on your to do list. What style is it?

FruitLover

poconnor16 wrote: »

Grading should never be rushed into
...
Ideally you should be training with your own grade

I disagree with both of these statements. Grading in martial arts is so overblown that people think they need 3 months of constant training in order to grade. The reality is, grades are nowhere near as important as people seem to think, and failing a grading is not a big deal (although if your instructor has recommended you go for a grade, chances are good that you're going to pass anyway). Here in Japan, some clubs don't even have minimum training times between grades. You go for a grade when your instructor reckons you can pass it.

I also believe lower grades training only with lower grades breeds stagnation. When I was a beginner, I was inspired by the speed and precision of the black belts I sparred with, and their superior technique meant that I had to try my hardest to keep up. Had I spent that same time just farting around with other unskilled practitioners, I don't think I would have improved as quickly.

joepenguin

FruitLover wrote: »

I disagree with both of these statements. Grading in martial arts is so overblown that people think they need 3 months of constant training in order to grade. The reality is, grades are nowhere near as important as people seem to think, and failing a grading is not a big deal (although if your instructor has recommended you go for a grade, chances are good that you're going to pass anyway). Here in Japan, some clubs don't even have minimum training times between grades. You go for a grade when your instructor reckons you can pass it.

I also believe lower grades training only with lower grades breeds stagnation. When I was a beginner, I was inspired by the speed and precision of the black belts I sparred with, and their superior technique meant that I had to try my hardest to keep up. Had I spent that same time just farting around with other unskilled practitioners, I don't think I would have improved as quickly.

In reality this should be the case. You get the grade when you are ready. I think the minimum training times etc is good for standardisation.

Zen65

StormWarrior wrote: »

....... so what are some things I should look out for to tell me if this is a good club where I'll learn karate properly, or a "mcdojo" as people call the sloppier places?

Firstly, if this club is convenient to you, don't underestimate the importance of that. I've trained with a few clubs over many years and I see that where people are local to the club they are typically more likely to continue training, and sloppy training is better than no training at all.

If what you're looking for is really good karate so that you can practise it for a long period of time without injury and with continuous improvement, then my advice is as follows:.....

If you have visiting instructors on a regular basis that can help to keep the standard high (but only if the visiting instructors are good) and will also help you to discern whether you've been taught correctly by your own instructors. I agree with other posters here that a good club does not have too many gradings in a year, typically no more than three gradings per year is OK, but at the lower belts up to 4 gradings in a year is not a problem. The more important issue is whether the gradings are genuine representations of learning or just a money-earner for the instructor. If the gradings are expensive this is a sure sign that this is a "mcdojo" and you should consider whether you could find a better place not too far away! If the brown belts look no better than the yellow belts then you're in a bad place.

I think it's best to train with a mix of grades. Lower grades learn better from senior grades, senior grades learn how to explain techniques & theory to lower grades. If you're getting into sparring before your brown belt this should be very controlled and carefully done. The instructor should show concern for the wellbeing of his/her students. If you're being hit a lot without explanation and guidance you're wasting your money.

When you've trained there often enough to know what's going on, take a look at some other clubs and see if the approach there is better or worse than in your own dojo. Nothing helps you to understand the standard in your own place as quickly as seeing the standard in another place.

Is your own club very focussed on competitions? I consider it a bad sign if a club goes from one competition to another, as this means there is not enough time being spent learning the important finer points in karate, and frankly unless you get to the "good stuff" in karate the whole thing can quickly become just pants. Literally!! Just going along to classes, expending energy and panting along with exhaustion, feeling you've had a good session but the learning is minimal. If you want to do karate into your later years this can only happen if you spend time learning the core art, and not just getting a good workout.

Okay, that's my two cents!

FruitLover

joepenguin wrote: »

In reality this should be the case. You get the grade when you are ready. I think the minimum training times etc is good for standardisation.

Surely the standardization should be controlled by the test itself, rather than some arbitrary 'minimum time' between tests. I.e. if you're not good enough, despite preparing for the exam for 6 months, you don't pass. If you are good enough, despite it only being 1 month since your last exam, you pass. If this isn't how it should work, what's the point of the test itself??

smacl

If you're getting into sparring before your brown belt this should be very controlled and carefully done.

It's been a long time since I practiced karate, i.e. about 20 years ago under Iwasaki, but free sparring started in wado ryu at yellow belt (8th kyu) and was part of the grading exam from green belt (6th kyu) onwards. Given you are going to take 2-3 years to get a brown belt (3rd kyu), that seems like a hell of a long time to spend at any martial art without regular sparring. Putting competition and sport fighting aside, i think it is a critical skill to be able to counter a single opponent who is throwing one of a number of possible techniques your direction with realistic speed and intent.