Who should be the next leader of Fine Gael?

rubensni

2010 has been a disaster for Enda Kenny, but who is there to replace him should a leadership challenge happen?

hallelujajordan

rubensni wrote: »

2010 has been a disaster for Enda Kenny, but who is there to replace him should a leadership challenge happen?

Hardly worth a thread? I doubt you will find anyone who will propose anyone other than Richard Bruton . . an absolute shoe-in !

Rb

Jack Bauer

Sulmac

Richard Bruton, obviously.

rubensni

Personally, I'd like to see Richard Bruton stay in finance as we need someone with a cool head for figures. Coveney is a good communicator and with his experience in Brussels would be good for Council of the EU meetings. Phil Hogan is a level headed chap also.

Sulmac

rubensni wrote: »

Personally, I'd like to see Richard Bruton stay in finance as we need someone with a cool head for figures. Coveney is a good communicator and with his experience in Brussels would be good for Council of the EU meetings. Phil Hogan is a level headed chap also.

I think that's part of the problem, Bruton seems far more charismatic and a better leader than Kenny (at least in public), but he also has a head for numbers and is clearly best suited to Finance, I agree with you there. It's a tricky one.

I suppose he could always be head of the party but not Taoiseach, should the time come.

Biggins

Fergus O'Dowd should also be considered.

rubensni

Sulmac wrote: »

I think that's part of the problem, Bruton seems far more charismatic and a better leader than Kenny (at least in public), but he also has a head for numbers and is clearly best suited to Finance, I agree with you there. It's a tricky one.

I suppose he could always be head of the party but not Taoiseach, should the time come.

Yeah, no offence to Keiran O'Donnell but he's not cute enough for finance. I watched the NAMA committee stage pretty closely and he could easily be fobbed off by Lenihan with ridiculous bs and came across as naive to me. The dept of finance would run rings around him and Richard Bruton seems like the only man to have the political skill and experience to stand up to the "real" government who played Biffo, and to a lesser extent Lenny like a viola.

evercloserunion

If they ever want to actually get into power, Bertie is their only choice.

hmmm

Bruton sounds very shrill when in a debate, he has been minced any time I've seen him on Prime Time. I think he'd be a disaster as a leader, probably good for Finance though.

If FG can't convince Yates to return it would be Varadkar for me, articulate, tough and a break from the past. Haven't heard from Coveney in years, he's landing no punches. O'Dowd is another Kenny media profile in the making - nice guy but not hard enough.

Kaizer Sosa

What's with the Varadkar love-in on boards? I can't understand it at all. He seems to fall to pieces anytime I see him under any particular hard line of questioning. Vincent Browne in particular has made him look like a blubbering fool on a few occasions. I think he would make a terrible leader. I just don't see him as a strong politician at all. Seems to be constantly on the back foot and that's while in an opposition role so would despair if he was Taoiseach.

jhegarty

Is next leader of FF not a pressing question ?

rubensni

jhegarty wrote: »

Is next leader of FF not a pressing question ?

Whomever that is won't be taoiseach for a long time. Biffo isn't going anywhere any time soon and we're 2 years from a general election.

Freiheit

think Enda Kenny today, promising to be 'better informed ' and to' be himself' in the future just sounded ludicrous....Biffo will batter him again in the leaders debate in 2012

Red_Marauder

jhegarty wrote: »

Is next leader of FF not a pressing question ?

Lots of possibility but I'd say Brian Lenihan or Noel Dempsey. Totally exasperating possibilities, but I think the two most likely.

hallelujajordan

Red_Marauder wrote: »

Lots of possibility but I'd say Brian Lenihan or Noel Dempsey. Totally exasperating possibilities, but I think the two most likely.

? ? Lenihan might have been a possibility had he not gotten sick and may still be if he makes a full recovery. . Personally I would think that Dermot Aherne or Michael Martin stand a better chance - and would each make a better leader.

Red_Marauder

hallelujajordan wrote: »

? ? Lenihan might have been a possibility had he not gotten sick and may still be if he makes a full recovery. .

Yeah... so, no change

Personally I would think that Dermot Aherne or Michael Martin stand a better chance - and would each make a better leader.

I think they are both too divisive within the party.

Nobody would say they aren't contenders but personally I think that Dempsey has shown more leadership skills, pragmatism and initiative over the past two and a half years.

stepbar

If varadkar became the next leader of FG, I'd reconsider my support for FG. He's not leadership material IMO.

brianthebard

Freiheit wrote: »

think Enda Kenny today, promising to be 'better informed ' and to' be himself' in the future just sounded ludicrous....Biffo will batter him again in the leaders debate in 2012

Again? Last elections leaders debate was between Kenny and Ahern and was called a draw/damp squid by most neutral observers from what I remember. tbh I have never understood the hate people have for Kenny but as time goes on I become more and more convinced that its a town/country divide. Kenny has done good things for his party, party members all seem happy with his leadership, and just because one inexperienced backbencher decided politics is not his forte does not mean it was a failure of the party leadership. There's a lot of things I don't like about FG or Kenny's policies but the constant petty attacks aren't warranted.

stepbar

Perhaps if Kenny concentrated on being a party leader more than trying to act like a cute hoor from mayo, he'd get more respect outside the party. I think he should leave the cute hoors to the boys from kerry.

Freiheit

I don't hate kenny,nor I suspect do many others, but he expresses himself incredibly badly and to my ears is an awful communicator.....I genuinely feel Bertie battered him in 2007 and I've no party alliegance. There's no hate or malice, he just seems ill equipped to run a country.

stepbar

Red_Marauder wrote: »

Yeah... so, no change
I think they are both too divisive within the party.

Nobody would say they aren't contenders but personally I think that Dempsey has shown more leadership skills, pragmatism and initiative over the past two and a half years.

Leading from another country (aka Malta) doesn't count.....

brianthebard

stepbar wrote: »

Perhaps if Kenny concentrated on being a party leader more than trying to act like a cute hoor from mayo, he'd get more respect outside the party. I think he should leave the cute hoors to the boys from kerry.

Thank you for proving my point. Your dislike for Kenny is not based on any policy and is instead based on a feature of his background over which he has no control. Bravo.

Mr.Micro

Enda Kenny seems like a nice enough man but he has not cut it as a leader of the largest opposition party and he lacks charisma. FG just sit back and think that they have already won the next election because of what the current shower have done to our economy. The FG party at the minute is inert and it could not cut butter. Enda should recognize that he should step down now gracefully and let someone a bit more voracious take the job before the next election.

stepbar

brianthebard wrote: »

Thank you for proving my point. Your dislike for Kenny is not based on any policy and is instead based on a feature of his background over which he has no control. Bravo.

It is generally accepted that when someone communicates the following points hold:

Words (the literal meaning) account for 7% of the overall message
Tone of voice accounts for 38% of the overall message
Body Language accounts for 55% of the overall message

Now considering that 7% makes up the words given across, I'd think it's fairly important that anyone delivering a message concentrates on the soft side of the message. How many times have you been in a lecture and thought "This guy or girl is talking a load of sh1te?". It's not because of what they have to say but how they present it.

BTW, I support FG primarily because "my background" is steeped in family allegiances to the party. I'm from the country as well. Kenny doesn't need to come across as a smug, cute hoor from Mayo. Whilst I agree that Kenny has done untold work within the party to bring people together; it's not going to be enough to encourage the mass public in his quest to become leader of the country.

picpress

Freiheit wrote: »

think Enda Kenny today, promising to be 'better informed ' and to' be himself' in the future just sounded ludicrous....

If he has'nt been himself before now one wonders who exactly has he been up to now?

Ivan Yeats the leader FG missed out on IMO

Red_Marauder

Freiheit wrote: »

Biffo will batter him again in the leaders debate in 2012

Brian Cowen has never run in a General Election as leader and has never engaged in a leader's debate on that level either.

Red_Marauder

stepbar wrote: »

Words (the literal meaning) account for 7% of the overall message
Tone of voice accounts for 38% of the overall message
Body Language accounts for 55% of the overall message

Eh you do know that this Mehrabian rule applies to face to face communicationa and not public address?

And that it is based on emotional communications not the delivery of fact or statistics, so not applicable to a political speech? It's more applicable to an informal conversation over coffee.

Mehrabian himself is a strong public critic of people who peddle his research erroneously like you have done here.

stepbar

Well done on your selective quoting there.... but you missed a bit...

It is generally accepted that when someone communicates the following points hold:.......

.........I'd think it's fairly important that anyone delivering a message concentrates on the soft side of the message. How many times have you been in a lecture and thought "This guy or girl is talking a load of sh1te?". It's not because of what they have to say but how they present it.

Now, if you want to start another thread arguing the percentages, by all means fire ahead. The point remains that communication is more about a person's non-verbal actions than anything they've got to say. It's a fallacy even trying to argue that.

Choke

brianthebard wrote: »

Again? Last elections leaders debate was between Kenny and Ahern and was called a draw/damp squid by most neutral observers from what I remember. tbh I have never understood the hate people have for Kenny but as time goes on I become more and more convinced that its a town/country divide. Kenny has done good things for his party, party members all seem happy with his leadership, and just because one inexperienced backbencher decided politics is not his forte does not mean it was a failure of the party leadership. There's a lot of things I don't like about FG or Kenny's policies but the constant petty attacks aren't warranted.

Don't forget about Deasy and Creighton - two other rebels against Kenny.

peasant

Red_Marauder wrote: »

Dempsey ... leadership skills, pragmatism and initiative

I like your sense of irony

Biggins

The Independent newspaper is currently running a poll on if he should be replaced.

Mr.Micro

Biggins wrote: »

The Independent newspaper is currently running a poll on if he should be replaced.

It just emphasizes all the more how out of touch FG are and particularly Kenny. Unless they get a new leader soon they are in for a shock at the next election.

gandalf

Mr.Micro wrote: »

It just emphasizes all the more how out of touch FG are and particularly Kenny. Unless they get a new leader soon they are in for a shock at the next election.

Well they need to change leader now (ie in the next month) to try and start a momentum towards the expected GE in 2012. If they stick with Kenny and only decide to change closer to 2012 then it could be a disaster of Mayan* proportions for them.

*(sorry I couldn't resist it!)

Laminations

Biggins wrote: »

The Independent newspaper is currently running a poll on if he should be replaced.

Mr.Micro wrote: »

It just emphasizes all the more how out of touch FG are and particularly Kenny. Unless they get a new leader soon they are in for a shock at the next election.

How do you think a poll would look asking the same question of Brian Cowen?
Or how about a poll on the government? I mean don't the polls show that they have around 23% support....so where is the general election? where is their replacement?
If Kennys approval ratings dont start to rise then I think he must be replaced but definitely not because of this George Lee thing.

conorhal

It's time for Shane Ross to quit the Senate. FG should parachute him into George Lee's seat and immediately make him party leader. Then perhaps we would finally have the kind of honest,respected, intellectual leadership with an ability comunicate fearlessly and effectively that the country deserves.

Mr.Micro

Laminations wrote: »

How do you think a poll would look asking the same question of Brian Cowen?
Or how about a poll on the government? I mean don't the polls show that they have around 23% support....so where is the general election? where is their replacement?
If Kennys approval ratings dont start to rise then I think he must be replaced but definitely not because of this George Lee thing.

With all that has happened over the last year FG have been IMO very ineffective in opposition and Eamonn Gilmore has outshone them completely. This Lee issue is just a further example of the apathy that seems to be affecting FG. If it as a party are afraid to deal with the issue of a new dynamic leader now then they would be just as ineffective in Government as the current lot and that would not be good for our country.

Laminations

I really do like the idea of Shane Ross as leader

Red_Marauder

stepbar wrote: »

Well done on your selective quoting there.... but you missed a bit...



Now, if you want to start another thread arguing the percentages, by all means fire ahead. The point remains that communication is more about a person's non-verbal actions than anything they've got to say. It's a fallacy even trying to argue that.

I'm just saying don't throw around percentages like that which have nothing to do with political rhetoric, expect people to pull you up on it. Don't quote Mehrabian on political speeches - it doesn't come into this kind of comunication.

dixierip

Bruton is the standout canditate and Leo Varadkar would fancy it himself but is no doubt a couple of years away from it.

Laminations

dixierip wrote: »

Bruton is the standout canditate and Leo Varadkar would fancy it himself but is no doubt a couple of years away from it.

Bruton needs to stay in finance, he is excellent there.
Varadkar says he'd love to be leader one day but points out he's never been in government so he wants to just do that first, do a good job, and maybe in 10 years time he'll be in a position to lead (said so himself on the radio).

Colonel Sanders

brianthebard wrote: »

Again? Last elections leaders debate was between Kenny and Ahern and was called a draw/damp squid by most neutral observers from what I remember.

Totally agree. Kenny didn't exactly impress but Ahern (IMO) came across as a childish, load mouthed idiot. I was honestly expecting him to shout 'yer ma' at Kenny at any stage.

However I watched it with about 5 others at the time (flat mate and a few of her friends) and they were lapping up every word of Ahern's nonsense

Sulmac

Biggins wrote: »

The Independent newspaper is currently running a poll on if he should be replaced.

The Irish Times are also running one.

I'd normally be very wary of such self-selecting polls, though I think these ones are generally representative of the public mood.

rubensni

Laminations wrote: »

I really do like the idea of Shane Ross as leader

He's not even in Fine Gael. I think he was a FG member some years back, but couldn't hack the party system.

irishh_bob

stepbar wrote: »

If varadkar became the next leader of FG, I'd reconsider my support for FG. He's not leadership material IMO.

you are so wrong , its not funny

irishh_bob

Laminations wrote: »

I really do like the idea of Shane Ross as leader

id fancy ivan yates a whole lot more

Biggins

Of the two newspaper polls that were done, I wonder how much of the minority percentage that voted - were actually FF voters?
I say this because they probably want the poodle like Enda (biteless and meek) to keep running FG.
It clearly gives them a better chance of re-election!

stepbar

irishh_bob wrote: »

you are so wrong , its not funny

I'm wrong huh? lol :rolleyes:

You might want to expand on your one liner seeing you're doing the disagreeing..... Exactly what qualities do you see in Varadkar that would make him worthy of the FG leadership?

stepbar

Red_Marauder wrote: »

I'm just saying don't throw around percentages like that which have nothing to do with political rhetoric, expect people to pull you up on it. Don't quote Mehrabian on political speeches - it doesn't come into this kind of comunication.

Perhaps you might like to throw another theory out into the mix there, huh?

I didn't "quote" Mehrabian per se but that's beside the point and you know it. Anyhow, who said I was talking about political speeches? Not every interview Enda Kenny conducts or conversation he holds is a party political broadcast. However, one things for sure, his non verbal communication skills are not powerful and have everything to do with the power of "political rhetoric".

irishh_bob

stepbar wrote: »

I'm wrong huh? lol :rolleyes:

You might want to expand on your one liner seeing you're doing the disagreeing..... Exactly what qualities do you see in Varadkar that would make him worthy of the FG leadership?

well hes articulate , bright , speaks with authority , is mature for his years , not afraid to speak some home truths but most of all , being one of the few politicians on the right , hes someone who would help fine gael rediscover thier conservative roots

Red_Marauder

stepbar wrote: »

Perhaps you might like to throw another theory out into the mix there, huh?

I didn't "quote" Mehrabian per se but that's beside the point and you know it.

It's not beside the point. You did quote his research findings, except it is wrong to use them in a political context. It's simple.

Anyhow, who said I was talking about political speeches? Not every interview Enda Kenny conducts or conversation he holds is a party political broadcast.

You were talking about his ability to "deliver a message". Read the posts.

However, one things for sure, his non verbal communication skills are not powerful and have everything to do with the power of "political rhetoric".

That's fine - then say that. Don't start using figures which are not applicable because people notice and it devalues your entire post.