Mercedes E class estate or Opel Zafira?

quenching

I need to change our family car for something with 7 seats, occassional use only by small children. I'm tempted by a W124 estate like this instead of a 4 year old Opel Zafira. It all boils down to running costs over about 5 years. Tax and insurance will cost about €500 a year more on the Merc than the Zafira.

It seems I can buy a very good W124 with leather and air con for about €7500, there are much cheaper ones out there but they are usually knackered old sheds. A 4 year old Zafira will cost me about €9500. W124 websites says to allow €1000 or so for annual maintenance etc, the Zafira should be a bit cheaper but a 4 year old one can start to generate big enough bills so you never know. The Zafira will depreciate steadily but be easy enough to sell, the W124 may depreciate less but will have a smaller market when it comes to sell - it'll be at least 20 years old with a bigger annual road tax bill.

Fuel consumption is a consideration but not a deal breaker as its only going to do about 8000 miles per year. The Zafira 1.6 petrol does about 30mpg around town, the W124 maybe 24mpg. That'll add about €500 a year to the fuel bill

So, the Merc will cost €1000 a year more in running costs than a Zafira, excluding unexpected repairs.

I would prefer the W124 and have an excellent local Mercedes mechanic who already takes care of my 26 year old MB 190, but I've a nagging feeling it could prove much more expensive overall.

Anyone have any experience or opinions of which may be the better bet over 5 years?

Top Dog

Step away from the Zafira! I know 2 people who've had them and they had nothing but headache, heartbreak and serious bills.

keefg

Top Dog wrote: »

Step away from the Zafira! I know 2 people who've had them and they had nothing but headache, heartbreak and serious bills.

Everyone and their sister has that same story to tell about every car on the market to be honest.

For example, I know plenty or people who think Passat's are the dogs you-know-what's, my experience is much different and I think they're terrible cars.

My wife has owned a Zafira for the past 4 years and it's been the most reliable car we've owned, other than usual consumables (tyres etc) we've never had to spend a shilling on it.

Leonard Hofstadter

I'd say a lot of the problems that people may have had with the Zafira are due to them all having a weedy little 1.6 which has only 100 bhp, hopeless in a car that size and that tall. The engines are overworked and blow things like HGs as a result. I know family cars like these are not about performance but they still need some bit of power with 7 people and lots of luggage on board.

I've never heard of the HG going in the 1.6 Astra or Vectra(I know 1.4 Astras are very fond of blowing their HG), which tells its own story.

All Opel petrols give EGR trouble which while bad is not the end of the world.

mike65

If you buy the Zafira you will lie awake at night with the nagging feeling you sold your motoring dreams short. Forget the running costs, the difference won't be large. As you have a 190e you know parts can be bought dirt cheap from third party suppliers and they are easy to fix. A modern MPV type things is loaded with potential boobie traps.

trad

You could get a 300 diesel auto, tax is dearer but I ran one for a while and it would go around 40mpg on a run so there is savings to put against the road tax. Should be cheaper to buy because of the road tax.

Don't for get you are buying an old car, the W124 estates ended in 95 /96. You can get large service bills with older mercs particularly with brake, bushings and driveshaft couplings tend all to want replacement at the same time resulting in a headache of a bill unless you are doing your own maintenance but they will run on to huge mileage with good servicing. Get your car checked over by a specialist who knows these cars inside out before you buy.

keefg

captainspeed wrote: »

I'd say a lot of the problems that people may have had with the Zafira are due to them all having a weedy little 1.6 which has only 100 bhp, hopeless in a car that size and that tall. .

Ahhhh I see, we have a 2lt diesel model which may explain why we've had no problems

€7500 for a W124, are you mad ? They're at least 15 years old.

BrianD3

Are you aware of how much safer a Zafira is than an old design such as a W124. The W124 would likely be - at best - a 2 star NCAP car. Whereas a 05 Zafira is a 5 star car.

Some people are not too interested in safety which is fair enough however I think the safety aspct is still worth pointing out and this video worth watching

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qBDyeWofcLY

Tea 1000

It's a lot of money for a W124 estate really. In terms of value, I'd rather one of these :
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201005351595131/sort/priceasc/usedcars/body-type/estate/model/e_class/make/mercedes-benz/radius/1500/page/1/postcode/w127rj/keywords/7%20seats?previous=%2Fsearch%2Fused%2Fcars%2Fmercedes-benz%2Fe_class%2Fpostcode%2Fw127rj%2Fradius%2F1500%2Fkeywords%2F7%2520seats%2Fbody-type%2Festate%2Fsort%2Fpriceasc%2Fpage%2F1&logcode=p

Or if you spend a bit more than the W124 costs you could have one of these:
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/200947346542051/sort/priceasc/usedcars/body-type/estate/model/e_class/make/mercedes-benz/page/8/keywords/7%20seats/postcode/w127rj/radius/1500?previous=%2Fsearch%2Fused%2Fcars%2Fmercedes-benz%2Fe_class%2Fpostcode%2Fw127rj%2Fradius%2F1500%2Fkeywords%2F7%2520seats%2Fbody-type%2Festate%2Fpage%2F8%2Fsort%2Fpriceasc&logcode=p

Safety on either of those would be a lot better, much more so on the 2004 one.

mike65

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dn19Qj5jtf4

gears

RoverJames wrote: »

€7500 for a W124, are you mad ? They're at least 15 years old.

As the OP says you can pick up a bucket that you wouldn't use as a chicken shed for very small money but for a very good W124, like these, you will pay a good bit more.

Who wouldn't want something that looks like this in the drive.

Go for the W124.

€7500 for a non AMG W124 is totally looney, for an AMG I still reckon it's looney.

itarumaa

Silly money to pay over 7k for old Merc. The whole point of old cars are that you can get them cheap.

For comparison

http://www.carzone.ie/search/Volvo/V70/2.5--AUT/200946195823335/advert?channel=CARS

2k Volvo, safe and boring:) but also 5k cheaper than the Merc. Also more modern and safer car than old W124.

quenching

Tea 1000 wrote: »

It's a lot of money for a W124 estate really. In terms of value, I'd rather one of these :
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201005351595131/sort/priceasc/usedcars/body-type/estate/model/e_class/make/mercedes-benz/radius/1500/page/1/postcode/w127rj/keywords/7%20seats?previous=%2Fsearch%2Fused%2Fcars%2Fmercedes-benz%2Fe_class%2Fpostcode%2Fw127rj%2Fradius%2F1500%2Fkeywords%2F7%2520seats%2Fbody-type%2Festate%2Fsort%2Fpriceasc%2Fpage%2F1&logcode=p

Or if you spend a bit more than the W124 costs you could have one of these:
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/200947346542051/sort/priceasc/usedcars/body-type/estate/model/e_class/make/mercedes-benz/page/8/keywords/7%20seats/postcode/w127rj/radius/1500?previous=%2Fsearch%2Fused%2Fcars%2Fmercedes-benz%2Fe_class%2Fpostcode%2Fw127rj%2Fradius%2F1500%2Fkeywords%2F7%2520seats%2Fbody-type%2Festate%2Fpage%2F8%2Fsort%2Fpriceasc&logcode=p

Safety on either of those would be a lot better, much more so on the 2004 one.

Thanks for the suggestion but that model was VERY prone to rusting, the W124 was a much better built car without the electronic complexity of the more modern model.

BrianD3's pointed out the only real concern I have, but Mercedes safety testing of the W124 was used as the basis for NCAP test when introduced. That said, things have moved on and a more modern car will naturally be much safer, however the most important safety feature of ANY car is the driver, best to avoid the crash in the first place, that doesn't compensate for the other loonies though! Our driving is mainly in slow moving traffic on busy suburban roads.

A 12 year old Volvo V70 is not nearly as reliable as the W124 so they're out.

I'd be happy to pay what would generally be considered a lot of money for a really good W124 with full MB service history, leather and air con. Good W124's are not cheap but like most things you get what you pay for, and if well maintained will hold their value well.

itarumaa, cars are not cheap just because they're old, and old cars are not always cheap to buy, old bangers are cheap to buy. I don't want an old banger

quenching

quenching wrote: »

Thanks for the suggestion but that model was VERY prone to rusting, the W124 was a much better built car without the electronic complexity of the more modern model.

................A 12 year old Volvo V70 is not nearly as reliable as the W124 so they're out.

..............if well maintained will hold their value well.

An Irish one won't be susceptible to rust unlike their UK counterparts, the Volvo may not be as relaible as a W124, however they are far from being unreliable. The one linked to looks like it got a slap though.

If you buy a non AMG W124 estate for anywhere near to €6000 / €7000 you will lose a good few quid on it. Buy a Volvo for €2000 or so and you won't lose much. I'd be very interested to see if you do find a good one, they are rare as hen's teeth. The prices asked in the UK are totally mad, add VRT and ferry etc to them and you're looking at mega bucks for a 15 year old car that in many peoples eyes will be a well cared for candidate for a scrappage scheme.

W124s are nice though, I had one for a few months, best €430 I ever spent

Fabritzo

BrianD3 wrote: »

Are you aware of how much safer a Zafira is than an old design such as a W124. The W124 would likely be - at best - a 2 star NCAP car. Whereas a 05 Zafira is a 5 star car.
Some people are not too interested in safety which is fair enough however I think the safety aspct is still worth pointing out and this video worth watching

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qBDyeWofcLY

Hmmm, lose your legs or drive a Renault, it's a tough call

ecoangel

Hello,

Could you please tell me the name of your mechanic in Galway that deals with Mercedes? We are being robbed every time something happens to our car.

Thanks

ecoangel

ecoangel wrote: »

Hello,

Could you please tell me the name of your mechanic in Galway that deals with Mercedes? We are being robbed every time something happens to our car.

Thanks

Is that q for me ? I didn't bring my W124 to a garage, she just needed a service, the handbrake adjusting, an OVP relay for the ABS, a battery bracket and a few other small jobs doing to get he past the NCT, and tyres. Did it all myself. I don't really know any mechanics or garages in Galway, the crowd across from the NCT centre seem quite good though, very obliging and friendly.

arnelv

captainspeed wrote: »

I'd say a lot of the problems that people may have had with the Zafira are due to them all having a weedy little 1.6 which has only 100 bhp, hopeless in a car that size and that tall. The engines are overworked and blow things like HGs as a result. I know family cars like these are not about performance but they still need some bit of power with 7 people and lots of luggage on board.

I've never heard of the HG going in the 1.6 Astra or Vectra(I know 1.4 Astras are very fond of blowing their HG), which tells its own story.

All Opel petrols give EGR trouble which while bad is not the end of the world.

I have a 1.6 Zafira for 3 years, yeah it may be slower than a 1.8, after all they were designed to be family car and lot of luggage space at the back. Comfort and safety, wont trade it with a 7 seater japanese tin cans. Just follow its maintenance procedure wont give you a problem just like any other car. ex. changing your oil every 5K or 10K kms. will prolong its engine life. There are no such thing as a under powered car, its the driving habbit. too much of Top Gear pollutes your brain. Drive safely, don't race. 120 -140 kph is fast enough.

Tragedy

Since when are v70's unreliable?

The D5 engine is a peach, and that generation of volvo petrols do massive mileage with no bother.

quenching

quenching wrote: »

I'd be happy to pay what would generally be considered a lot of money for a really good W124 with full MB service history, leather and air con. Good W124's are not cheap but like most things you get what you pay for, and if well maintained will hold their value well.

itarumaa, cars are not cheap just because they're old, and old cars are not always cheap to buy, old bangers are cheap to buy. I don't want an old banger

Quenching - Given that you reckon a good W124 estate would cost €5000 to €7500 is this one you're selling an old banger so ?
http://www.adverts.ie/282752/cars/mercedes-w124-200te-estate-7-seater-taxed-and-nct-to-12-2011/

quenching

RoverJames wrote: »

Quenching - Given that you reckon a good W124 estate would cost €5000 to €7500 is this one you're selling an old banger so ?
http://www.adverts.ie/282752/cars/mercedes-w124-200te-estate-7-seater-taxed-and-nct-to-12-2011/

Now now RoverJames!! I've since revised my opinion on spending €5k on a W124 estate, particularly as when I started this thread (8 months ago!) the car was for my wife to drive the kids to school, and they might not be a careful as me with the car

The one I'm selling isn't prefect and I'd expect perfection for €5000, that said I've yet to see one for which I'd be happy to pay €5k. Even the ones for sale with the likes of www.w124.co.uk have minor cosmetic issues, and I wouldn't pay their prices, some work out at about €10k once VRT and travel is factored in. The black one I'm selling is great mechanically but does have its share of scratches and dings, hence its price. I do have my 1984 190E listed for sale also, at €5750, but that is actually perfect!

Seweryn

quenching wrote: »

I need to change our family car for something with 7 seats, occassional use only by small children. I'm tempted by a W124 estate like this instead of a 4 year old Opel Zafira. It all boils down to running costs over about 5 years. Tax and insurance will cost about €500 a year more on the Merc than the Zafira.

It seems I can buy a very good W124 with leather and air con for about €7500, there are much cheaper ones out there but they are usually knackered old sheds. A 4 year old Zafira will cost me about €9500. W124 websites says to allow €1000 or so for annual maintenance etc,

Anyone have any experience or opinions of which may be the better bet over 5 years?

I would go for the Benz without hesitation. The main reason would be the looks of it - I just wouldn't like to sit in the Zafira and hope that I will enjoy my time driving it.
Regarding the cost of ownership of the Estate 124T... I can say that my service bills are low due to the fact that parts for the Benz are cheap and easily accessible. The petrol 2.8 engine would do around 25-28 mpg, a smaller one say E220 would do up to about 30 mpg (I have one at the moment) and the E300 Diesel automatic Estate about 30-36 mpg (I drive one at the moment, so the numbers are verified). The smaller Diesel Estate 2.5 with manual transmission does 45 mpg (my daily car), but someone will say that it is slow (over 100 mph easily anyway). So that is the fuel cost.
The 2.8 E280 needs to be checked prior to the engine wiring loom failure (biodegradable cables), any other issues – I am sure you know about, as you drove one before.
Good Luck with your choice.

quenching

quenching wrote: »

Now now RoverJames!! I've since revised my opinion on spending €5k on a W124 estatet

Glad you saw sense Was only joking about the one you have being a banger