Trying to get Farm up and running

kincaid

Hi

Due to working away from home for many years I’ve now decided to come back to the land on a part-time basis,
Have about 33 acres in all which was leased out until end of last year.
Anyway I’m going to try and get it up and running myself and have a few ideas but not very clued up on the farming scene and need some good solid advice Please…

What’s the best way to make money on such a small holding?
WAS thinking of getting some dry stock to start with but not sure.

Also would like to try the free range hens but seems everyone is at this now so if anyone started this business –how is it going for you and is it expensive to start up etc?

Any advice at all appreciated

Thanks

red bull

Well first I wish you good luck. Its very difficult time, a friend of mine started the same two years ago and he bought relatively cheap angus weanling heifers and finished them for factory.Did not make a fortune but he's happy. He also has a pension from his former job without this I dont he would exist ?

leg wax

i would go about this project thinking how can i save money rather than how can i make money. grow all your own food for your house first at cost /veg/beef/lamb/etc and any surplus sell.

Username John

Hello kincaid,

Well, the common question people seem to ask is whether you want to go farming cos you would like to, or whether you want to do it as a money making enterprise?
he he, I think maybe the question should be - would you like to go farming knowing you are going to lose money?

Whats the setup on the farm? Good facilities, good fields / grass. Or would a lot of investment be needed? 33 acres is small, but its a good bit too if you have a lot of clearing to do, or re-seeding, etc. Its also maybe a size where you might need new sheds if you want to carry animals.

I was in the same boat as you there two years ago. Came home after being away, and I started farming the home place. Its only a small farm like yerself. In my case, the place was run-down, facilities poor, etc. So its taking a good bit of investment. Luckily I joined REPS before it finished, so I have some kinda money coming in, which is all going back into the farm.

To be honest - if I was you, I'd wait and see whats going to happen with this new REPS scheme. It would be good if you had some kinda money coming in. Without it, I am not sure I would recommend farming the full 33 acres.

Maybe you could take back a few acres, and keep the rest let out. Grow your own veg, you could also get a few lambs, pigs, etc, as Leg_wax suggests above. I think if you were to do this, you would still have the benefits of living on the land, doing yer own thing, having your own food, etc. But you wouldn't have the same workload, nor the same demands, both financially and timewise as farming 33 acres might have.

Just my thoughts.

Let us know what state the farm is in, as this really affects what you can do.

The post above might sound a bit negative - but I must say I really enjoy farming, and am very glad that I am back home. Even though it isnt really making me any money, and is eating up time, I enjoy it!

And finally - best of luck with it whatever you decide to do.

JohnBoy

I'm heading into a similar situation along with my wife shortly.

we'll be taking on a farm that's been leased for the last five years.

Some conclusions I've come to....

Obviously the most money is to be made by renting out the land, but where's the fun in that.

Get everything into your control as early as possible. what I mean by this is if you're planning on making a go of this then dont lease out the land. 2 reasons. 1) we're heading for a new SFP system in a few years time, who knows what criteria it'd be based on, but it's unlikely to favour landlords. also you'll be taxed at top whack for rent, whereas if you "sell the grass" instead then that's the sale of a crop, and you can offset some of your costs against it.

Get a herd number activated for similar reasons, get some class of a beast onto it and get into the system. it all helps when you want to start applying for stuff.



Oh, and buy a vice grips

reilig

JohnBoy wrote: »

Oh, and buy a vice grips

And a set of hammers . .... . sledge, lump and nail.....


You can achieve anything

jfh

just a thought, if you live near a few schools, you rent half and keep the rest as a pet farm for school tours etc..
best of luck with whatever decision you make.

kincaid

Hi

I enjoy the outdoors and do have a keen interest in farming even more so now than when I was younger…but I want to maximize what I have and I know that I will lose money as well as make some but with the right advice at the start on what to get involved in and what is making people money in farming at present maybe it will not be so bad….


Farm overall is pretty good shape, it would need fencing and about 10 acres would need reseeding.

Have the herd no. sorted out now too…

Username John

Well - sounds like you have yer mind made up, and your eyes are open re the financials.

I'm not really the person to be talking to re what to do, I know little enough about farming myself... but I dont let that stop me

What was on the farm before - sheep, cattle? This would determine what you could get into again more easily.

Does your location lend itself to anything in particular - jfh suggested close to schools, or close to a busy road, if you wanted to have a farm shop. Although I am unsure how feasible these things are if yer not at them full time?

There was another thread on here last week, re organic farming - might be worth a look.

There are two ways to make money in farming these days, in my opinion
1) Be big - have lots of ground, animals, etc
2) Get a niche, whatever that is, and charge a premium for it

Then, there is the way I farm, and probably lots of others
- try to have good animals, produced as cheaply as possible, and hope and pray that you get a good price for em when you go to sell em.

You wont become rich, and any money you do make, will somehow find its way to being spent on the farm, to improve something else. :rolleyes:
But tis enjoyable, and as long as I make some money, and its not a drain on my off-farm finances, I'm happy...

Let us know how you get on, and what you decide to do

haybob

Ok the first thing you need to do is see the doctor and get your head checked out.

What’s there regarding sheds, tractors etc if any, I see lads recommending finishing cattle and renting plots to schools and that’s fine but I say get 9 or 10 cows and go for middling quality you could also chance 9 or 10 sheep too. Hens are awful easy look after in my experience but I'm only talking about a dozen or so lock em in a night and feed em scraps and a bit of layers mash, turkeys and geese used to fetch a nice price around the Christmas €50 easy and you can feed em scraps and a few oats and they will graze away.

Regarding a tractor you will need something for lifting bales of silage so I'd be going for a 290 but if you have the good fortune to be able save hay and store it go for something smaller I presume you will be using the contactors for the heavy work.

Get a good gardening book

kincaid wrote: »

Hi

Due to working away from home for many years I’ve now decided to come back to the land on a part-time basis,
Have about 33 acres in all which was leased out until end of last year.
Anyway I’m going to try and get it up and running myself and have a few ideas but not very clued up on the farming scene and need some good solid advice Please…

What’s the best way to make money on such a small holding?
WAS thinking of getting some dry stock to start with but not sure.

Also would like to try the free range hens but seems everyone is at this now so if anyone started this business –how is it going for you and is it expensive to start up etc?

Any advice at all appreciated

Thanks

kincaid

I have all the machinery etc but what area is best to get involved in .ie
is there more money to be made in sheep than cattle,as regards to cattle is it best to buy bullocks, heifers etc or what breed is best etc

Regarding hens i was looking at that in a much bigger scale -the free rang.
anyone any experience of setting up a large scale free range egg production unit

haybob

Back to the question of what facilities are in place and what kind of work you can do yourself, you could get a few autumn calving heifers now for handy enough money, if you go into dairy you will have to invest I'd imagine even if don't have a slatted house you can leave the cows run away for the winter and feed em outside.

I'd suggest a mix of beef, sheep and poultry as well as a grow you own policy where possible on a personal level I'd be interested to know how you get on with the poultry as I have to kill and pluck 5 or 6 geese and turkeys most Christmases’



PS sorry i'd suggeat whitehead fresian X in calf from the limousine

kincaid wrote: »

I have all the machinery etc but what area is best to get involved in .ie
is there more money to be made in sheep than cattle,as regards to cattle is it best to buy bullocks, heifers etc or what breed is best etc

Regarding hens i was looking at that in a much bigger scale -the free rang.
anyone any experience of setting up a large scale free range egg production unit

agcons

what about going organic? Only lads I see making a living off small acreage are organic vegetable producers, running box schemes etc, selling organic chickens or eggs ete etc, otherwise its just turning over enough to meet the farm bills

kincaid

organic - may look further into that

AS for proper housing facilities are limited, missed out on the grants that were available but maybe something new may come along...

there are 4 farmers in my area that have started free range egg production and was thinking as i have a small holding it would be ideal for that but when i see 4 farmers already at this in a large scale it may saturate the market but not sure...

anyone on here know much about this business as its seems to have took off in a big way and seeing as there is a recession here and these eggs are quite expensive to buy i didnt think it would have.
are there any grants available for the buildings etc?

mossfort

i think something like rearing pigs outdoors might be a good idea because there is a market for that type of meat as most pigs are intensively reared.
you could try and pitch your product to butchers.
as for suckler cows you need good quality animals to compete nowadays so you would have to invest a considerable sum of money without any payback for the first year or two.
and as was suggested you could try and get into sowing some organic vegetables.

whelan1

mossfort wrote: »

i think something like rearing pigs outdoors might be a good idea because there is a market for that type of meat as most pigs are intensively reared.
you could try and pitch your product to butchers.
as for suckler cows you need good quality animals to compete nowadays so you would have to invest a considerable sum of money without any payback for the first year or two.
and as was suggested you could try and get into sowing some organic vegetables.

my cousin rears pigs outdoors we visited in the autumn when the weather wasnt too bad and it looked fine but went in the bad weather and it was brutal you couldnt walk through the field and he had to bring them in to a shed

tabby aspreme

outdoor pigs can damage soil structure in the long term ,any thing that you can sell direct is good as you can under cut the super markets and still make a profit , a neighbour of mine sells free range eggs outside a few schools every week ,people know she is there on a certain day each week and she sells lots of them and it only takes about 15 minutes at each school

kincaid

i'm still very keen on the idea of free range hens but one guy who at it in this area says it cost him €180,000 to put up the house alone , not sure if he is trying to put me off the idea and doesnt want the competition but would like to hear from others on here and specially those who are involved in free range market...

thanks

eorna

180.000!! you would build a 5 bedroom house with flat screen televisions and a couple of jacuzzis for that price nowadays!:eek:

kincaid

it does sound expensive, looking at his new house its approx 160ft long by 70ft or so, so not sure what it would cost maybe its includes all kitted out too

owlite700

congrats on the decision to have a go at farming.
I was in a similar situation about 5 years ago. I am a sheep farmer , no big pile of money but i would have been lost without it this year.
Talk to your local teagasc office and get an advisor, they will help with the initial paperwork regarding single farm payments and area aid etc.
Joining teagasc costs about 70 euros a year but it is worth it . Filling out a dept . form wrong can have expensive results.
If you are fencing off boundaries with neighbours , make sure of boundary first. A good neighbour is a big help . Use good quality posts and fencing, its worth it in the long run.
good luck and I hope it works out

Sam Kade

owlite700 wrote: »

.Joining teagasc costs about 70 euros a year but it is worth it .

I was paying Teagasc €200/year 6 years ago

agcons

A lot of teagasc offices listed for closure in the next two years. you could try your local agri consultant, www.aca.ie

owlite700

My fee was 74 euro plus reps planning fee, a year.

galwayhillbilly

I know the thread is quite old but I am interested to know how the OP got on as I am in a similar situation, by coincidnce similar acreage as well.

re the free range hens we looked into that a few years ago but the Banks refused to give us a loan, some people got set up under the FWM scheme, but we didnt go for it because we had no income units. Sheds are a lot cheaper now. With that amount of hens you would also need access to additional land for nitrates. The distributors wont want to know about you if you are looking at anything less than 3000 birds, back then they were trying to push people up to 6000 birds. they are all under bord bia quality assurance which means that you need signficant investment to comply and this only pays off if you have bigger scale. This operation requires capital, if you have to borrow heavily i'd say leave it alone.

If you wanted to go it alone and sell from the farm gate you could convert a shed quite easily for low enough cost, as long as you didnt want a fancy automated feeding systems your biggest capital cost would be slats and nest boxes

I am interested to know about the lady selling at the school gate did she ever get any hassel from the schools or from the powers that be?


We are renting on the 11 months system and we are happy that we have a guaranteed income. But we are not happy to have strangers in and about our place all the time. The question I ask is if all these guys who are renting land are not making a profit why are they renting in the first place? either they are idiots, or they are making a profit, maybe a small one but a profit nonetheless. I have been involved in several businesses and in certain types of business it doesnt pay to publicise the fact that you are doing well. E.g. if you were boasting in the pub how much money you made out of a parcel of land that you are renting on the 11 months system somebody might try to get in there next year.

Between AEOS (if we got it) and area based disadvantaged payments, if we were to keep our input costs below €1000 we could make the equivalent of what we make in rent. If we avoided making a loss on the farming side of things we would be no worse off and we would be actively farming and producing the majority of our own food.
Initially we were thinking just the bare minimum stocking density to qualify for the schemes, 13-14 ewes or 2 cows. Cut and sell silage/hay, rent out the aftergrass until we had enough stock to eat it ourselves. I am only sorry we didnt move on it last year because breeding stock is very expensive this year.

kincaid

hi, regarding the free range hens, what roughly would it cost to build one standard size house etc to get you up and running..

galwayhillbilly

Re the free range hens, the house we were looking was in the region of 100k for a 3000 bird house, this was back in the boom we were getting qouted rediculous prices for the concrete slab and the walls. Also there is an unbelievable amount of equipment involved including ventilators, slats, feedstore, automatic feeders and drinkers, lighting next boxes insulation, vermin control and thats just the basic model if you go more automatic you are talking egg collector, automatic nest boxes, manure scrapers and possibly even more
You have 2 choices buy a prefabricated purpose built wooden shed (not sure of the prices) or build a steel shed can't remember how many birds per sq meter. We were looking at a steel shed at the time
You neet planning permission if you go above about 200 birds. I can PM you my old business plan if I can find it on my old pc. It is vital that you have a contract from a distributor before you lay a block by all means get your planning sorted out that will set you back a couple of grand but it wont break you, but dont lay a block without some sort of written agreement from a distributor


If you wanted to start off small selling locally try adapting a shed for about 100 birds, you cant sell to shops unless you have a special permit, so you could only sell direct to customer 100 hens = about 600 eggs a week which is 100 half dozens @€;2 = €200 a week, your overheads would be €30 a week for feed at the most, a couple of euro for water and light, take out your capital cost for adapting the sheds and the feeders drinkers nest boxes and buying the hens etc and you should have a profit of at least €120 a week which is 6k a year for a capital investment of maybe €1000, Surely you would be able to find 50 customers for a dozen eggs a week, (I am also speaking to myself here)

kincaid

thanks for that very helpful, would appreciate the business plan if you can find it