PPC1 2010

Legaleagle123

Hi,

Just wondering if anyone is heading up to Blackhall this September? I am finally! Anyone have advice on where to live and what the course is like?:)

Aprilsunshine

There at the moment. Course is a joke but great laugh!

page1

Can i ask what hours do you do, are they regular or would you finish early some days ... ?
Thanks.

Aprilsunshine

Extremely irregular hours.

There is no pattern to the timetable - every week is different although they give you a timetable for the whole year at the start so you can see which weeks are loaded up with tutorials and classes in advance.

But they change and update the timetable all the time so you have to keep an eye on it.

At the start we had a couple of days where you finish in the afternoon and lately there are a lot of 5 or 6 pm finishes. All depends on whether you are in stream a or b as they have different timetables....varying by about 2 hours. So one stream is in early and usually leaves earlier (although not always - sometimes they stay later which must be annoying!) and the other comes in later and leaves later. So instead of being in for 9 you're in for 10.30 or 11.

page1

Can you apply for a particular stream, for example ill have 2 children in creche and will have to commute about 2 hours each way to Dublin so a later start may suit me better.

Aprilsunshine

page1 wrote: »

Can you apply for a particular stream, for example ill have 2 children in creche and will have to commute about 2 hours each way to Dublin so a later start may suit me better.

You can apply - they put a notice on website about a month before PPC starts and there is a form to fill in but you are not guaranteed a place. If it was me I would phone up once you see the form online and explain your circumstances.

baoithe1

...but not totally. Can anyone tell me how long it takes the Law Society to get back to you after you've lodged your application for the PPC1 (The consent to enter into Indentures)?

legaleagle1234

Hi was just wondering when you mean by ppc1 is a joke? i am waiting on my last fe1 result, tort. Was working full time when I was studying for them so I did four and four. Found them challenging and had to repeat tort and eu. In comparison to the entry exams what is the ppc1 course like? I heard that on getting into blackhall it is very straightforward in comparison to the entry exams? is this true? Just wondering as I spent alot of time studying for the Fe1s? dont know if i have the strength to be repeating PPC1 exams like i was with the fe1s?

Regards
legaleagle1234

Aprilsunshine

The classes vary hugely in quality - some are so bad that it hurts to sit through them. The course can be badly organised too - you will get at least 10 drafts of the timetable during the year. Some classes are great but others are useless. A solicitor comes in to lecture you on their area of expertise and some are better than others. Tutors are the important ones - some are good and some are so bad you will leave the tutorial knowing less than you did!

Paul1979

Hi
does anyone know the procedure for applying for ppc1,is the deadline for admin before the results of the fe1s?im assuming that one can apply up to the beginning of the course, is this the case?

any info appreciated.thanks

legaleagle1234

thanks for your response. Pity that some lecturers are not up to scratch. I had this ideology that blackhall would prepare you entirely for being a solicitor!!! So do I gather that blackhall is more practical based, while the entry exams are academic based? That must be awkward for you that the timetable is constantly changing... I would hope to go to cork law society as it would reduce costs for me. were the ppc1 exams hard in comparison to the fe1s?

Solicitor

Nothing prepares you for practice except practice i.e. your in-office training. Your time in Blackhall will be far more beneficial if you have completed some practical training in the office before you start your PPC1.

dats_right

100% agree with Solicitor.

I know I wanted to qualify as soon as possible, as I think every trainee does, but I ended up doing slightly over a year as an apprentice (pre-ppc1). At the time, I hated the fact that I could only claim 4 month credit off my aprenticeship; and naturally was thoroughly impatient to get qualified asap. But once in Blackhall you could certainly tell the trainees who had 'in-office' experience before ppc-1 from those who didn't.

It really did become immediately apparent, when it Blackhall, that it really was such a major advantage to have been in the office for so long pre-Blackhall. And to be honest, it really enhanced my learning experience immeasurably. Believe me the longer spent in office pre- ppc-1 will ultimately make you a better solicitor, which at the end of the day is what is all about.

In terms of deadlines, etc. trust me the Law Society will be jumping through hoops to get everyone they possibly can on the course.

legal eagle 1

Out of curiosity, how many people do you think will be entering Blackhall Place this year? Do you think the number will be considerably down on the figure last year or about the same? As in, has the legal profession deteriorated a lot further in the year and there are even less training contracts out there?!

blueythebear

legal eagle 1 wrote: »

Out of curiosity, how many people do you think will be entering Blackhall Place this year? Do you think the number will be considerably down on the figure last year or about the same? As in, has the legal profession deteriorated a lot further in the year and there are even less training contracts out there?!

There was about 470 I think between Dublin and Cork in 2009 PPC I. That's definitely down on the previous year which I think was about 600ish. Previous years have had about 800 people doing it I believe and more...

shaneybaby

blueythebear wrote: »

There was about 470 I think between Dublin and Cork in 2009 PPC I. That's definitely down on the previous year which I think was about 600ish. Previous years have had about 800 people doing it I believe and more...

Is there much difference between Dublin and Cork (i asked already in the FE1 thread but in case it may have been lost in the crowd)

Is the only difference in the course the geography?

Qweevs2

Hi,

I've finally passed all my FE1 exams, I know that I have to get the PPC1 pack from the Law Society, can someone maybe just give me some information on this. Do I just ring the Law School and get them to send one out to me when the are available? Is all the information provided in this pack, with regards fees and securing your apprenticeship (i have one secured but have nothing in writing etc from the firm) etc.
I have been trying to find information about how to go about all this and what the next step is but am not having much success.

Thanks, any help would be appreciated.

shaneybaby

Qweevs2 wrote: »

Hi,

I've finally passed all my FE1 exams, I know that I have to get the PPC1 pack from the Law Society, can someone maybe just give me some information on this. Do I just ring the Law School and get them to send one out to me when the are available? Is all the information provided in this pack, with regards fees and securing your apprenticeship (i have one secured but have nothing in writing etc from the firm) etc.
I have been trying to find information about how to go about all this and what the next step is but am not having much success.

Thanks, any help would be appreciated.

Hey, I emailed them on Monday and the house received it yesterday (i'm away until Saturday) TraineeSection [TraineeSection@LawSociety.ie], very quick and i got answers to all my queries. Won't have an idea as to the contents of the pack until after the weekend i'm afraid. well done on the exams.

pandas

I just passed my last FE-1 too, got the results Monday. I was never as delighted then it hit me i had no apprenticeship ha!

Any advice on where to start? tips/pointers for CV?

I have relevant experience in a Solicitors office in Galway city for just under a year until i had to finish up to do my exams-and now with the economy so bad they cant take me back on - which probably looks worse because now it looks as though I was just terrible and they don't want to rehire me!

I have just emailed for the PPC1 Pack.

Thanks,

Diann

Amigone

Hey,

Just passed all my FE1's and told my 'master' that i'm set to go to Blackhall.

Thing is he's been very underhand with me the last 18 months... initially i was told i was being taken on as a trainee and that my fees, etc would all be paid for. Then in January when i asked him the position should i get the last 2 fe1s he told me i'd have to pay my fees myself and he wouldn't be able to pay me while on PPC1.

Right... I can handle the fees and i'm going to talk to him about wages... cos he has to give me something (can't get the dole!)

Anyway... just been told by a solicitor here that when he was in PPC1 he was working and didn't attend lectures... WTF?! .... Will they actually make me work and not attend lectures?!

They're the type to hold you head over a barrell (I was told if I thought i could get an apprenticeship elsewhere to go ahead and find one!) so i'm really concerned that I've worked this hard to get my FE1's to get out of this place and get to Blackhall and now they may blackmail me into actually working while i'm meant to be in college!

Any advice would be appreciated.....

shaneybaby

Amigone wrote: »

Hey,

Just passed all my FE1's and told my 'master' that i'm set to go to Blackhall.

Thing is he's been very underhand with me the last 18 months... initially i was told i was being taken on as a trainee and that my fees, etc would all be paid for. Then in January when i asked him the position should i get the last 2 fe1s he told me i'd have to pay my fees myself and he wouldn't be able to pay me while on PPC1.

Right... I can handle the fees and i'm going to talk to him about wages... cos he has to give me something (can't get the dole!)

Anyway... just been told by a solicitor here that when he was in PPC1 he was working and didn't attend lectures... WTF?! .... Will they actually make me work and not attend lectures?!

They're the type to hold you head over a barrell (I was told if I thought i could get an apprenticeship elsewhere to go ahead and find one!) so i'm really concerned that I've worked this hard to get my FE1's to get out of this place and get to Blackhall and now they may blackmail me into actually working while i'm meant to be in college!

Any advice would be appreciated.....

A good friend of mine missed quite a lot of lectures by having to work in the office during PPC1 (as well as basically concentrating on just one area) and as a result is finding time as a NQ harder than most as regards everything else. I'm going to have to do bar work or something to support myself but that's a whole lot different to having to work in the office as i'm definitely not going missing any lectures. You don't want to be missing lectures etc. Unfortunately i'd say just take the hit and plough on through, get the qualification and give em the one finger salute when you walk out the door.

legaleagle1234

I know that nothing prepares you for practice except practice i.e. your in-office training, as I have worked as a paralegal for almost 4 years now and am well acquainted with the situation on the ground. what I asked was could anyone give me a comparison between the fe1s and ppc1s. I found the fe1s to be more academic based- I was wondering if anyone could tell me what the ppc1 exams are like? open book? more practical based....

legaleye

I'm one of the lucky few to get offered an apprenticeship starting Blackhall in September. Just wondering whether there are many people starting Blackhall in Cork in September?

shaneybaby

legaleye wrote: »

I'm one of the lucky few to get offered an apprenticeship starting Blackhall in September. Just wondering whether there are many people starting Blackhall in Cork in September?

Mise freisin hopefully. They haven't changed the forms to take into account the Irish exam (although the guidelines have changed) I've a list of questions to ask the Law Soc re the forms (by my reading you need 4 character references that you don't work with.) Page 2 of application for consent "i attach character references....in addition to the character references contained in Certificate".

Anyway really looking forward to it and hopefully coming out the other side actually knowing what i'm talking about;)

legaleye

Seriously..? Didn't realise there was so much too it. Just rang the Law Society today to get them to send out my Indenture Pack, must get the ball rolling. Looking forward to it, heard Blackhall is the best craic but nervous at the same time.

Just delighted to get an apprenticeship, even though I'll have to pay the fees myself but I'm sure there's a lot in the same boat at the moment.

Have you got any office experience pre ppc1? Just reading through the threads and people were saying its better to have experience prior to Blackhall! Bit worried now, spent the last year doing an LLM and need to work for the summer to afford to go to Blackhall!

shaneybaby

legaleye wrote: »

Seriously..? Didn't realise there was so much too it. Just rang the Law Society today to get them to send out my Indenture Pack, must get the ball rolling. Looking forward to it, heard Blackhall is the best craic but nervous at the same time.

Just delighted to get an apprenticeship, even though I'll have to pay the fees myself but I'm sure there's a lot in the same boat at the moment.

Have you got any office experience pre ppc1? Just reading through the threads and people were saying its better to have experience prior to Blackhall! Bit worried now, spent the last year doing an LLM and need to work for the summer to afford to go to Blackhall!

Yeah i've a decent bit of experience in the office. Just even get two months or three months but like it's not the end of the world at all. Once you know how to use a photocopier you'll fly your apprenticeship!

As for the references yeah it seems like four, hopefully i'm wrong. Fees are gona be a killer for anyone not getting them paid as the credit union weren't exactly thrilled with the idea of giving me a loan which i can't pay back for a year and i might not even get a job by the end. anyways still on a high from the results so worries for next weekend;)

Amigone

I just rang the Law Soc Education Centre and they confirmed the following:-

1) You only need two character references
2) You do not need certified copy results from Junior or Leaving Certificate - you just fill in school, year, and results if you remember them in the Education form part.
3) You only need certified (or original!) copies of your (long) Birth Certificate and Degree

shaneybaby

Amigone wrote: »

I just rang the Law Soc Education Centre and they confirmed the following:-

1) You only need two character references
2) You do not need certified copy results from Junior or Leaving Certificate - you just fill in school, year, and results if you remember them in the Education form part.
3) You only need certified (or original!) copies of your (long) Birth Certificate and Degree

Sound for the above! The form reads pretty badly throughout. You'd think they have an FAQ part or maybe i'm too thick to have seen that.

If anyone is going for the grant they require your original birth cert.(on the form it doesn't say anything about certified copies) so be careful about sending it off with the Blackhall form as it obviously can't be in two places at once.

legaleye

Hey

I've got a training contract lined up for September but just need to sort out the finer details. Just wondering has anyone been experiencing the same situation as me. The Solicitors firm I am going to train with is not paying my fees, which is fine I can sort that out, but are also trying not to pay me for my time in the office. Law Society says they have to pay min wage but beginning to worry if I argue with them over it I'll lose the traineeship.

So basically just wondering whether anyone else was experiencing this at the moment and firms using the recession as an excuse!

tombren

legaleye wrote: »

Hey

I've got a training contract lined up for September but just need to sort out the finer details. Just wondering has anyone been experiencing the same situation as me. The Solicitors firm I am going to train with is not paying my fees, which is fine I can sort that out, but are also trying not to pay me for my time in the office. Law Society says they have to pay min wage but beginning to worry if I argue with them over it I'll lose the traineeship.

So basically just wondering whether anyone else was experiencing this at the moment and firms using the recession as an excuse!

im in ppc2 at the moment and while i do get my fees etc paid, there's plenty of my class-mates that dont, its pretty commom to be honest and as you've kind of hinted at already, they mightnt take you on if you push the issue. there is plenty of people who would it without fees being paid!
if you've worked in the office before blackhall they're meant to pay wages (or your fees) but the law society are absolutely terrible in helping trainess re their traineeship and definitely will not get involved,
it's a brutal situation but there's not much that can be done in reality, the grant does help (if you're living away from home)

Thirdfox

Amigone wrote: »

I just rang the Law Soc Education Centre and they confirmed the following:-

1) You only need two character references
2) You do not need certified copy results from Junior or Leaving Certificate - you just fill in school, year, and results if you remember them in the Education form part.
3) You only need certified (or original!) copies of your (long) Birth Certificate and Degree

Lol that would be difficult for me...seeing as the country I was born in do not issue birth certificates (at least not in the style that I presume an Irish one is like)... plus no way would they be able to even read it

Legal1

In relation to the grant, how arduous a process is it? Will it involve numerous meetings or is it quite straightforward? I will be applying either way but just to be prepared. Also, is there a significant difference in amount depending on whether you are living at home or not. Fees are not being paid so need as much as possible!!
Thanks

legaleye

tombren wrote: »

im in ppc2 at the moment and while i do get my fees etc paid, there's plenty of my class-mates that dont, its pretty commom to be honest and as you've kind of hinted at already, they mightnt take you on if you push the issue. there is plenty of people who would it without fees being paid!
if you've worked in the office before blackhall they're meant to pay wages (or your fees) but the law society are absolutely terrible in helping trainess re their traineeship and definitely will not get involved,
it's a brutal situation but there's not much that can be done in reality, the grant does help (if you're living away from home)

I'm one of the lucky ones to get an apprenticeship and I'm definitely going to take it. Just worried how I am going to support myself through the Training Contract. I don't mind not having my fees paid as I have some savings and can get a loan to cover PPC2 but with no pay while in the office is going to be tough. But I don't want to push the issue with the firm as I fear that they will pull the plug on the apprenticeship that I have worked so hard to get in the first place.

I feel a little relieved to hear that there is more people in my situation.

As regards PPC 1 & 2 is it a heavy work load, would it be possible to work part time while doing it?

I am applying for the grant too so hopefully that should help if I am eligible.

Any advice is greatly appreciated!

tombren

legaleye wrote: »

I'm one of the lucky ones to get an apprenticeship and I'm definitely going to take it. Just worried how I am going to support myself through the Training Contract. I don't mind not having my fees paid as I have some savings and can get a loan to cover PPC2 but with no pay while in the office is going to be tough. But I don't want to push the issue with the firm as I fear that they will pull the plug on the apprenticeship that I have worked so hard to get in the first place.

I feel a little relieved to hear that there is more people in my situation.

As regards PPC 1 & 2 is it a heavy work load, would it be possible to work part time while doing it?

I am applying for the grant too so hopefully that should help if I am eligible.

Any advice is greatly appreciated!

the work load is ok, if you got through the fe1s, you'll get through the ppc's ok! they're not a walk in the park but if you keep on top of your tutorial work and do a reasonable amount of study before the exams you'll be ok. there is quite abit of mock court, presentation stuff in ppc1, so you have to prepare for that but again, nothing to be actually that worried about.

it would defo be posssible to work part-time, i know a few people that had to go into their office to work everyday after class. the only thing would be that you cant really miss many tutorials so any part-time job would have to work around them. im sure bar/restaurant work or weekend work would be fine!

if you get the full grant, you'll get about half your fees back after ppc1 and about €1200 twice in ppc1 and once in ppc2. also if you pay fees yourself you can get tax back on them too
ppc1 is super craic, really something to look forward to!!

tweedledee!

I have a question about the grant for PPC which I'm hoping someone will be able to answer. I received a grant for my undergrad (level 8) and masters (level 9). I;m wondering if this now excludes me from getting a grant for PPC? Is this also considered a level 9? Someone please say it doesn't so or I'm looking at one big loan!

lucilou

tweedledee! wrote: »

I have a question about the grant for PPC which I'm hoping someone will be able to answer. I received a grant for my undergrad (level 8) and masters (level 9). I;m wondering if this now excludes me from getting a grant for PPC? Is this also considered a level 9? Someone please say it doesn't so or I'm looking at one big loan!

Sorry to be the bearer of dad news but you van only receive the Higher Ed Grant for one follow on course eg a masteers...so if u have already got funding for a masters you wont qualify for the High ed grant for ppc...!!!

legaleye

Hey,

Just wondering if anyone is starting PPC1 in Cork in September and need to find a place to live. I'm moving to cork city at the end of August and finding it difficult to find someone to share an apartment with, as most of the people I know start Blackhall (Dublin) in September.

If anyone else is in the same position I'd be so happy if they could get in touch.

Also just wondering does the fees for PPC1 and PPC2 cover the cost of books and materials too or will we have to buy much textbooks and stuff when we start? Its all so expensive!

Any help greatly appreciated?

tombren

legaleye wrote: »

Hey,

Just wondering if anyone is starting PPC1 in Cork in September and need to find a place to live. I'm moving to cork city at the end of August and finding it difficult to find someone to share an apartment with, as most of the people I know start Blackhall (Dublin) in September.

If anyone else is in the same position I'd be so happy if they could get in touch.

Also just wondering does the fees for PPC1 and PPC2 cover the cost of books and materials too or will we have to buy much textbooks and stuff when we start? Its all so expensive!

Any help greatly appreciated?

yep fees cover all textbooks, tutorial materials etc

Farcear

tombren wrote: »

yep fees cover all textbooks, tutorial materials etc

Well, considering the Law Society made €4.2m from PPC1 last year, it would be scandallous if they didn't!

legaleye

Oh thank goodness for that!! Thanks for the replies!

thefifty

Does anyone know if this is going ahead?

legaleye

Hey thefifty,

I rang the Cork office two weeks ago and was told it was definitely going ahead. They had 14 or so lined up at that stage and was told that most people sign up in August. But I was told its definitely still going this year.

It better be, because I'm due to start in September and don't fancy the prospect of moving to Dublin for 6months!

Hope that answers your question!

thefifty

Thanks a million, there's always debate over it; last year they ended up with 67 and the course was able to run on those numbers!

shaneybaby

Is the cork one still part of UCC? Where are the lectures held?

jacko1

shaneybaby wrote: »

Is the cork one still part of UCC? Where are the lectures held?

courthouse chambers - opposite courthouse

shaneybaby

jacko1 wrote: »

courthouse chambers - opposite courthouse

Presumably as they are linked with UCC you are able to have access to the UCC library and all that craic. Are you considered a UCC student? (for student card/rail card purposes) I know the ocurse is done in association with UCC but is there that much cross over?

jacko1

check with lawsoc but I think that link to UCC has been lost

shaneybaby

jacko1 wrote: »

check with lawsoc but I think that link to UCC has been lost

Interesting cause i heard something similar, just know a friend in PPC1 used to study in the law Library. big article in Gazette about the partnership, nada about it being lost. Probably won't make that great a difference i'd imagine. Thanks jacko.

cagney88

Just wondering is there any kind of snobbery among students in Blackhall over which firm you're with i.e do those in the big firms tend to stick together and those in joe blogs down the sticks get sidelined?

littlebubble

cagney88 wrote: »

Just wondering is there any kind of snobbery among students in Blackhall over which firm you're with i.e do those in the big firms tend to stick together and those in joe blogs down the sticks get sidelined?

ooh good question? :eek: oooh I hope not! anyone who has got into Blackhall have because they have earned their place there, I don't see how getting into one of the 'Big 5s' would make someone more superior than someone who has chosen to do their apprenticeship outside Dublin? Maybe there is such snobbery I don't know? I guess it's like snobbing off someone who got their law degree from lets say UCC as opposed to Trinity? what tosh! :mad:

Aprilsunshine

There is a little bit but its mostly from people in smaller firms to be honest. There is some resentment from a minority of people that they aren't being paid much or at all (which I understand) but it tends to cause the people from bigger firms to stick together!

It's the minority though and your tutorial group become like your family regardless of where they are from!