where to get supplies?

patnor1011

I am looking for few things and I am completely helpless as to where to get them...

Is there anyone who can help me to point out some place or shop where I can get things like lab glass, erdelmayer flasks, glass rods for stirring, melting dishes, plastic forceps, HCl, nitric acid... I am working with jewellry as a hobby and cant get basic things here...

FarmerGreen

You often see glassware on E-bay.
Also http://hswalsh.com/default.aspx for jewellerey stuff.
Tiranti http://www.tiranti.co.uk/index.asp have a few bits you may find useful.

lumpwood

Yeah e-bay is probably your best bet for glassware, it can be as cheap as some of the big suppliers anyways. I usually use Fisher Ireland or Sigma Aldrich for chemicals, they might be iffy about sending acids if your not a known customer though.

patnor1011

lumpwood wrote: »

Yeah e-bay is probably your best bet for glassware, it can be as cheap as some of the big suppliers anyways. I usually use Fisher Ireland or Sigma Aldrich for chemicals, they might be iffy about sending acids if your not a known customer though.

Thanks. If you dont mind and have their homepages I will be gratefull for links. I tryied google them but too many results... I dont need large volumes I will be happy with 5-6litres of HCl as I can reuse that in my process and say about 2-3 litres of nitric, 1-2 sulfuric... I believe that this is not marking me as potential terrorist ... I need them in my hobby for purifying metals...

lumpwood

Ya no problem, Fisher:http://www.ie.fishersci.com/ and Aldrich: http://www.sigmaaldrich.com/ireland.html . Aldrich have about 20 different products for the acids you listed, AR grade is probably fine for what you're doing.

patnor1011

Thanks. Unfortunatelly none of them sell to private individuals so I cant buy anything from them. It is funny becouse you can get these things in uk in shops. I think that I will have to go to NI to buy these...

daragh8008

Not wanting to sound like a kill joy but part of the problem is not just getting the chemicals, it is also safe storage usage and more importantly disposal of said chemicals. Not everything can go down the sink. That being said if you projects are proof of concept and purity is not that important, then a lot of which you need can be knocked up at home. I’d tell you how but the forum charter ((4) No dangerous methodologies: Anyone caught posting protocols to experiments that generate dangerous chemicals will be banned.) suggests I shouldn’t. That said if you were determined the good folks at sciencemadness.org don’t mind people discussing methodologies or preps. You should note though, a lot of people there either work in a lab or have constructed suitable fumehoods (and hopefully live in the wilderness) for there home hobbies!

FarmerGreen

Its a question of blowing in the right earhole.
If you were to turn up at a local wholesale chemist with ID and cash you'll
get a grilling for sure, but if you're OK you can get it.
Just dont ask for too much, theyre nervous.
Be honest with them.

krd

Correct me if I'm wrong. but don't agricultural co-ops sell acid?

I'm pretty sure I've seen HCL on farms. Not so sure about nitric though.

They're not really dangerous chemicals unless you do something incredibly stupid with them.

You should pick up some caustic soda as well. It's a harmful a drain cleaner to dispose of down the sink - it is drain cleaner.

daragh8008

krd wrote: »

Correct me if I'm wrong. but don't agricultural co-ops sell acid?

I'm pretty sure I've seen HCL on farms. Not so sure about nitric though.

They're not really dangerous chemicals unless you do something incredibly stupid with them.

You should pick up some caustic soda as well. It's a harmful a drain cleaner to dispose of down the sink - it is drain cleaner.

Sorry have to disagree with you there. Conc Nitric / sulphuric and 37% HCL acids as sold by chemical suppliers are very dangerous to work with. Once got a tiny speck of Nitric acid on my arm and burnt a little hole in me. Not pleasant. Not to mention the effect of using fuming HCl outside of a fumehood!! Its part of the reason chemical suppliers don't like to deal with individuals who may or may not realise the potency of the supplies they are buying. If you do get hold of the supplies for your hobby treat them with a lot of care, as each of the above can cause you a lot of damage.

krd

daragh8008 wrote: »

Sorry have to disagree with you there. Conc Nitric / sulphuric and 37% HCL acids as sold by chemical suppliers are very dangerous to work with. Once got a tiny speck of Nitric acid on my arm and burnt a little hole in me. Not pleasant. Not to mention the effect of using fuming HCl outside of a fumehood!! Its part of the reason chemical suppliers don't like to deal with individuals who may or may not realise the potency of the supplies they are buying. If you do get hold of the supplies for your hobby treat them with a lot of care, as each of the above can cause you a lot of damage.

Well that's the thing - you have to really know any chemical well if you're to handle it or be around it. If you're not sure - ready up on the chemical well before you use it. My father had a business that involved lots of different chemicals - their was one floor of his building rented out to a guy who did acid washes for a living - he literally had tons of anhydrous HCl in sacks. I've never had any problems around chemicals but you have to be very careful. Know precisely what will happen in a reaction before you attempt it. Know to slowly at your acid to your water and not the other way around. If you know you're going to have fumes - be properly ventilated. Or if the fumes are very noxious make sure you're doing to you work safely. If you don't know precisely what you're doing you can kill yourself.

I can imagine chemical suppliers being very careful with amateurs. I can imagine an idiot getting their hands on nitric acid and dolloping in glycerine(or is it glycerol - I can't remember) and stirring it with a spoon to see what happens.

daragh8008

krd wrote: »

Well that's the thing - you have to really know any chemical well if you're to handle it or be around it. If you're not sure - ready up on the chemical well before you use it. My father had a business that involved lots of different chemicals - their was one floor of his building rented out to a guy who did acid washes for a living - he literally had tons of anhydrous HCl in sacks. I've never had any problems around chemicals but you have to be very careful. Know precisely what will happen in a reaction before you attempt it. Know to slowly at your acid to your water and not the other way around. If you know you're going to have fumes - be properly ventilated. Or if the fumes are very noxious make sure you're doing to you work safely. If you don't know precisely what you're doing you can kill yourself.

I can imagine chemical suppliers being very careful with amateurs. I can imagine an idiot getting their hands on nitric acid and dolloping in glycerine(or is it glycerol - I can't remember) and stirring it with a spoon to see what happens.

Not to be too pedantic but I sincerely doubt he had anhydrous HCL in a sack as it’s a gas at room temperature and generally used as a 37% solution as this is its maximum solubility in water. It is available anhydrous but this is as a speciality gas that requires serious safety equipment, such as emergency showers self contained breathing equipment, gas tight suits etc.

krd

daragh8008 wrote: »

Not to be too pedantic but I sincerely doubt he had anhydrous HCL in a sack as it’s a gas at room temperature and generally used as a 37% solution as this is its maximum solubility in water. It is available anhydrous but this is as a speciality gas that requires serious safety equipment, such as emergency showers self contained breathing equipment, gas tight suits etc.

Sorry, I haven't had much, sleep and it's years since I've had to think of this.

The acid was white solid/granule in plastic sacks. It was used with specialist equipment; some kind of pump/mixing machine that mixed the solid with water to create the acid wash. The guy who used the machine - had special breathing equipment, and protective clothing.

It could have been sulphuric acid - it's a long time since I've even had to think of this.

FarmerGreen

Probably sodium persulphate.
Ammonium bifluoride possibly.
If anyone says "we can use hydrofluoric acid to do that" leave the building immediately and get a job at Tesco.
Joe public has no idea how dangerous this kit is.

krd

FarmerGreen wrote: »

Probably sodium persulphate.
Ammonium bifluoride possibly.
If anyone says "we can use hydrofluoric acid to do that" leave the building immediately and get a job at Tesco.
Joe public has no idea how dangerous this kit is.

His equipment blew up on him twice. He was lucky each time.

lumpwood

Just had a quick look on ebay again...there is HCl available to buy from the u.k...(Bonnyman's Chemicals), not sure if they deliver overseas though.

Yeah hydrofluoric is nasty stuff alright, worst thing is if you get some on you you don't notice anything until you're badly burned.

craggles

HF will go straight through your skin, dissolve your bone, block your veins and arteries with solid calcium fluoride and cause cardiac arrest. You'll be lucky just to lose a limb and if you spill it on a large part of your arm you can expect to die.

krd

So there is a general consensus - HF makes for an excellent solvent should you have say a dead rich old lady (you've married for money) you need a solution for.


Just a question - Something I've see in discussion elsewhere. There's been a rise of acid attacks in the UK. First aid advice I've seen suggested, has been to have backing soda on hand - and to pour baking soda on the effected area, instead of trying to wash with water, as a means of neutralising the acid and stopping horrible burns. Would this actually be the most effective method?

Capt'n Midnight

krd wrote: »

he literally had tons of anhydrous HCl in sacks. I've never had any problems around chemicals but you have to be very careful. Know precisely what will happen in a reaction before you attempt it. Know to slowly at your acid to your water and not the other way around.

LOL
same goes for anhydrous DHMO

I can imagine chemical suppliers being very careful with amateurs. I can imagine an idiot getting their hands on nitric acid and dolloping in glycerine(or is it glycerol - I can't remember) and stirring it with a spoon to see what happens.

However, Christian Friedrich Schönbein, a German-Swiss chemist, discovered a more practical solution around 1846. As he was working in the kitchen of his home in Basle, he spilled a bottle of concentrated nitric acid on the kitchen table. He reached for the nearest cloth, a cotton apron, and wiped it up. He hung the apron on the stove door to dry, and, as soon as it was dry, there was a flash as the apron exploded.

Professor_Fink

You guys are getting very close to the line as regards supply/production of dangerous chemicals. If in doubt, please read the forum charter. I don't want to have to start deleting posts.

patnor1011

Thanks for all answers. I am well aware of dangers associated with acids. I was working with them often and everytime with proper care and respect. I do not intend to create some mess here on forum or in my home ...
All what I was looking was small amounts sufficient to keep my hobby going and since it is not any secret I can tell you it is not anything special or dangerous. I need them to purify metals basically gold, silver, some platinum group metals too. Pretty straight forward reactions and procedures. Yes I do have fumehood but I am working with very small volumes at time so even Al Gore can sleep well. I prefer to work slowly with HCl, nitric is faster and I think that this is much safer than cyanide leaching. I have no need or desire to work with hydrofluoric. As for disposal I am well aware what to do and how to do it properly. I know that I can get most of my chemicals in shops around they are just called differently like brick or drain cleaner and I know how to make some of it myself but as was stated here I prefer to work with proper stuff as it has impact on purity of final "product"... Thanks gents, I really appreciate interest you showed answering my questions. Pat