EU To Have its Own Army

lcrcboy

The German foreign minister Guido Westerwelle has come out saying he backs the idea of a EU army to help the EU play a role as a global player.
Whats your take on this idea?? do you aree with it or do you feel it erodes even more of Irish neutrality and independence???

Elessar

Awesome.

Ciaran500

So someone mentioning the idea = EU to have its own army? :rolleyes:

bluto63

Ze Germans want to build an army? Uh oh...

Closed ac

Misleading title :mad:

lcrcboy

Ciaran500 wrote: »

So someone mentioning the idea = EU to have its own army? :rolleyes:

I didint say because he mentioned the idea it was going to happen Im jus curious if it did happen in the future what would be normal peoples take on it

Sulmac

The neutral countries in the EU (Ireland, Sweden, Finland, Austria, Malta and Cyprus) will have words to say about this...

Most EU member states are already in NATO now, anyway.

Lux23

Personally think Irish neutrality is an embarrassment but then again there are many other states that are the same. I have no objection to a EU army if it were similar to the UN but without the crippling mandates. I think it would be a good thing.

Buford T Justice

What would happen in times of unrest or if there was a civil war?

MagicMarker

Ciaran500 wrote: »

So someone mentioning the idea = EU to have its own army? :rolleyes:

Why don't you read the post properly? :rolleyes:

lcrcboy

Fingers McGee wrote: »

What would happen in times of unrest or if there was a civil war?

suppose they would be deployed to try and calm it down, for example if things got hot again in NI imagine EU troops being sent there instead of British troops or along side them not to shure if this is a good thing or bad

weldoninhio

lcrcboy wrote: »

The German foreign minister Guido Westerwelle has come out saying he backs the idea of a EU army to help the EU play a role as a global player.
Whats your take on this idea?? do you aree with it or do you feel it erodes even more of Irish neutrality and independence???

Isn't he Italian-American??

lcrcboy

weldoninhio wrote: »

Isn't he Italian-American??

not according to France 24

hooradiation

lcrcboy wrote: »

The German foreign minister Guido Westerwelle has come out saying he backs the idea of a EU army to help the EU play a role as a global player.
Whats your take on this idea?? do you aree with it or do you feel it erodes even more of Irish neutrality and independence???

We have the so-called 'Irish clause' in every EU treaty we've signed up to which basically says in the case of any European army or anything even like it gets appended with the words "Except Ireland"

Long story short, we can't be forced to join an EU army and even if we decided to go along with the a as yet fictional EU army on a peacekeeping mission then our decision to go would have to pass the triple lock.

weldoninhio wrote: »

Isn't he Italian-American??

I see what you did there.

Ciaran500

MagicMarker wrote: »

Why don't you read the post properly? :rolleyes:

I did, then I complained about the misleading thread title that doesn't tie into the post.

Biggins

O' great, another excuse to flex muscle and egos!
Let not even get to the extra tax costs to every EU member that will be further imposed for the running, staffing and weaponising of it!

Would the person in the room that thinks they are not paying enough tax please stand up and be a glutton for more punishment?

It's less army's this world needs not more for fcuks sake.
One step forward and ten friggin' back - god damn to hell, when will these outdated ideologists kop themselves on.
Progressive thinking my arse!

hooradiation

Biggins wrote: »

O' great, another excuse to flex muscle and egos!
Let not even get to the extra tax costs to every EU member that will be further imposed for the running, staffing and weaponising of it!

Would the person in the room that thinks they are not paying enough tax please stand up and be a glutton for more punishment?

It's less army's this world needs not more for fcuks sake.
One step forward and ten friggin' back - god damn to hell, when will these outdated ideologists kop themselves on.
Progressive thinking my arse!

What is it that makes you run off screaming in hysteria and throwing any semblance of reasoning right out the window every time someone mentions the EU?

Mike 1972

Fingers McGee wrote: »

What would happen in times of unrest or if there was a civil war?

Like If one or more member states decided to leave the EU ?

Jesus Wept

Gotta nuke something.

Agent Smith

Take that china!

schween

Biggins wrote: »

O' great, another excuse to flex muscle and egos!
Let not even get to the extra tax costs to every EU member that will be further imposed for the running, staffing and weaponising of it!

Would the person in the room that thinks they are not paying enough tax please stand up and be a glutton for more punishment?

It's less army's this world needs not more for fcuks sake.
One step forward and ten friggin' back - god damn to hell, when will these outdated ideologists kop themselves on.
Progressive thinking my arse!

In an ideal world, yes we would all be doing away with our armies.

Biggins

hooradiation wrote: »

What is it that makes you run off screaming in hysteria and throwing any semblance of reasoning right out the window every time someone mentions the EU?

Pardon me if I'm sick of taxes, old ones, new ones and possible future ones being further imposed.
That and the talk of anyone ratcheting up less chances of world peace - I'll damn well speak out - pardon me if that voice don't have justifiable "reasoning?"

Minstrel27

Lux23 wrote: »

Personally think Irish neutrality is an embarrassment

What's embarrassing about it?

KTRIC

EU army ??

Didn't the Germans try that and fail in the 40's ??

ejmaztec

I love the smell of EU funding in the morning.



Those damn flashbacks.:eek:

Manic Moran

I'm not sure I see the difference in practical terms between what is proposed and the currently existing European Rapid Reaction Force (Of which Ireland is a part of the Nordic Battlegroup)

Granted EuFor is answerable to the WEU, not the EU, but the membership is pretty similar. Unless they're talking about a unified military as opposed to an alliance, in which case I presume you could have a Greek soldier serving next to a German soldier in the same unit. Communications would be ridiculous. We can barely get NATO units to talk to each other.

NTM

DJ_U4EA

People were warned before Lisbon 2 that we were progressing towards the United States of Europe but they ignored it. Have your cake and choke on it too.

DazMarz

I think it is only a matter of time before The United States Of Europe the European Union has its own standing army, comprised of current members of member state's armed forces and volunteers. It could serve to further unite the nations of Europe, leading to less conflict between nations. We're already ploughing towards the inevitable of a continent-wide country (U.S.E., anyone?)... Why not have an army to back it...

hooradiation

Biggins wrote: »

You question my semblance of reasoning?
Coming from one of the very, very few that that still think Bertie should be in the running for president? (For others, this thread!)

I don't know who it is you think i am, but i don't see a single post by me in that thread, so yeah, i am very dubious about your ability to reason anything out.

Biggins wrote: »

Pardon me if I'm sick of taxes, old ones, new ones and possible future ones being further imposed.

So, you're complaining about taxes (what a fucking surprise), but not current taxes, oh no, we've gotten to the point of future taxes are fair game. Imagined potential taxation which may not come to pass.
Marvelous.

Biggins wrote: »

That and the talk of anyone ratcheting up less chances of world peace - I'll damn well speak out - pardon me if that voice don't have justifiable "reasoning?"

Ahh, the "I'm angry therefore I'm right" argument. Awesome.

lcrcboy

DJ_U4EA wrote: »

People were warned before Lisbon 2 that we were progressing towards the United States of Europe but they ignored it. Have your cake and choke on it too.

I agree people were warned about the way things are going to shape if there was a yes vote to the Lisbon treaty

hooradiation

lcrcboy wrote: »

I agree people were warned about the way things are going to shape if there was a yes vote to the Lisbon treaty

However if the pair of you were being in any way honest you'd know full well Ireland is not obliged to be part of this so called "EU army" and our neutrality is as it ever was even if this popped into being tomorrow.

Just like how the "EU President" didn't turn out to be Tony Blair and he'd be given nigh on infinite power or that the minimum wage didn't drop to 1 Euro odd or any of the other prophesized bullshit.

G_R

DJ_U4EA wrote: »

People were warned before Lisbon 2 that we were progressing towards the United States of Europe but they ignored it. Have your cake and choke on it too.

I was wondering how long it would take for Lisbon to get brought into this, even though it has nothing to do with it....
/sigh

Overheal

dannym08 wrote: »

I was wondering how long it would take for Lisbon to get brought into this, even though it has nothing to do with it....
/sigh

Well wtf did you expect. You realize how pivotal that Treaty was, don't you?

Angry Troll

the idea is sound. if europe is to have a meaning and a voice in a world dominated by large nations like the usa, russia, china and india in the future, a european defence force with a unified european command structure, european nukes and logistics etc. is a necessity. europe needs to be able to defend itself against anyone and to protect and enforce european interests globally and without the help of the americans. embarrassing enough we still need the yanks to do the dirty work in the interest of the western world whenever there is trouble somewhere, like on the balkans and in other places in the past and present. and do not fear, there will be no conscription. and even a tiny “neutral” island nation like ireland would benefit from being part of a stronger europe in the long run.

westerwelle called it a “long-germ goal”… http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zop5nokhuia

Mike 1972

Angry Troll wrote: »

if europe is to have a meaning and a voice in a world dominated by large nations like the usa, russia, china and india in the future, a european defence force with a unified european command structure, european nukes and logistics etc. is a necessity. europe needs to be able to defend itself against anyone and to protect and enforce european interests globally and without the help of the americans. embarrassing enough we still need the yanks to do the dirty work in the interest of the western world

How would this benefit you or I ?

Overheal wrote: »

Well wtf did you expect. You realize how pivotal that Treaty was, don't you?

I am still waiting for the legalisation of prostitution, hard drugs and assisted suicide which I was assured would result from the treaty being ratified.

I want my money back !

ejmaztec

Mike 1972 wrote: »

How would this benefit you or I ?

We'd get to take part in the looting and pillaging.

hooradiation

Mike 1972 wrote: »

How would this benefit you or I ?

If we'd applied that shortsighted attitude to things we'd still all be living in caves pushing berries up our noses.

Let me ask you this, even if it doesn't make your life better in some ill defined way, what does that matter?

justaday

i would join, it would be awesome.

cant wait for the next world war eu vs usa, lets go kill some yanks

caseyann

Only way should come about is if the individual can choose whether or not to be apart of international situations and not drafted if there ever was call for it,Because personally then i see them trying to build military Europe.

Biggins

hooradiation wrote: »

I don't know who it is you think i am, but i don't see a single post by me in that thread, so yeah, i am very dubious about your ability to reason anything out.

Your right - I'm 100% wrong - and when I am I say so.
My mistake of mixing names up for which I apologise for unreservedly.

hooradiation wrote: »

So, you're complaining about taxes (what a fucking surprise), but not current taxes, oh no, we've gotten to the point of future taxes are fair game. Imagined potential taxation which may not come to pass.
Marvelous.

Anything that is going to possibly wallop us more - why shouldn't people speak up about such items?
We are still allowed to mention them as one "cost" of a possible new army?
- Note - If you actually look at some of my replies, its extremely rare for me to give out about taxes, in fact while I think of it, help me to find a previous one...
So quote "What a fcuking surprise" - well that don't wash with me and is presumptive, not quantifiable.

And yes, if we discuss other subjects that are the basis for funding such more madcap ideas such as another army - why the hell shouldn't we discuss it funding and how its going to come about - why fcuking shouldn't we!!!
It's part and parcel of creating a financial support basis for such an operation.
Do you think the money for such operations, munitions, etc are going to come out of thin air???

hooradiation wrote: »

Ahh, the "I'm angry therefore I'm right" argument. Awesome.

Your words - NOT MINE - so please don't give the appearance that that is my perspective or opinion. To re-quote myself in relation to

That and the talk of anyone ratcheting up less chances of world peace - I'll damn well speak out - pardon me if that voice don't have justifiable "reasoning?"

Where the hell are you going - assuming - alluding to when you state:

hooradiation wrote: »

Ahh, the "I'm angry therefore I'm right" argument. Awesome.

I NEVER said that, alluded to that point of view or wish to.
What the hell are you on about!
I'm on about "cause" to be concerned - what are you mistakenly alluding to?

Luftwaffles

I see it this way, when the U.S arrives to seize oil in Eurasia, there has to be a unified military force to stop them. It's only a matter of time before this happens.
However, Ireland's neutrality is sacred and I'm guessing we'd sooner leave the European Union than give it up.

citizen_p

id say go for it... it would be good , you would just have to sort out communication....

btw...if somone invaded us they would leave within a week...

caseyann

Mousey- wrote: »

id say go for it... it would be good , you would just have to sort out communication....

btw...if somone invaded us they would leave within a week...

HAHAHAHAHA wow hahaha to much

Little fish in big pond swallowed up by all the bum chums of Europe smart move:rolleyes:

The_B_Man

**** sake! we need to grow some balls!

if we actually stood up and picked a side and got off the fence, maybe that would make an example that maybe our kids would see and therefore stop being a bunch of chicken sh*t cowards who rely on the fence to not get into an argument. Sure we're small, but maybe if we picked a sdie and took a direction then maybe we'd work towards that, get a goal and become a decent nation, instead of a neutral sissy country too afraid to stand up for itself! We get bullied by europe anyway so what difference does it make if we join a big huge massive army? europe is still gonna give us hassle but at least if europe goes to war, we're there in the amy to fight for europe, instead of sitting back having an irish whinge, and coz we're in said army, we STILL have their backing no matter what!!

its not like we dont go to war already with the UN! Just this way we say "HEy we're ireland and we're at war with you" instead of "i'm not telling you where im from but if you have a problem, talk to our bosses in the UN!!!".

Man the **** up, ireland!

Sirsok

Power in numbers guys.....with the world being full with psycho's like north korea and china why not create a power that can stand up to them....the world cant always rely on Americans to save us from the bad guy.....

With a army of this magnitude world peace would be more achievable in my opinion.....who the fcuk would step out of line knowin the risk of havin the U.S. and Europe coming in and clearing house.....

Hank_Jones

To be honest I think something like an EU army would be good.

It would certainly tear down barriers and cause people to want to have a better understanding of foreign languages (which is a real problem here).

Mike 1972

The_B_Man wrote: »

if we actually stood up and picked a side and got off the fence......

If you really feel so strongly about it there is absolutly nothing to stop you going off and signing up to fight for the armed forces of any country that will take you and the beauty of it is that you even get to pick which "side" you want.

Of course for those who dont like too much thinking its much easier to let the Government choose for them.

Run_to_da_hills

Not a good idea at all and was aware of it before Lisbon 1.

The proposition of compulsory drafting, the deployment of foreign troops on Irish soil within three hours should there be any hint of civil unrest. Consider it like the National Guard of the US. They could impose martial law at any given moment within any part of the EU

You also must also remember that the Death penalty applies within the EU in times of rioting.

Angry Troll

history has or should have taught us that in the long run only military strength and with it the ability to deter anyone from interfering with your interests can assure peace and economic prosperity. all militarily weak countries and empires go down at some point in history. and only because western europe has been without a real enemy and lived in relative peace and prosperity since 45 does not mean it will always be that way…the world keeps changing and who knows what things might be like 100 years from now…in the end only the strong will survive and europe has what it takes to be among the strongest powers in the world (with or without ireland) if only we were able to pool our strengths…
and do not get me wrong, i do not want a “use” or anything like that, just strong cooperation where it matters and i would expect all europeans to take responsibility and pull their weight…

MikeC101

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

You also must also remember that the Death penalty applies within the EU in times of rioting.

NO it doesn't.

Your outright lies are shocking at times.

The provision was put in there for individual member states that want the ability to impose the death penalty in a state of emergency. Off the top of my head I can't remember the states that wanted this, but it sure wasn't Ireland.

Ireland does not have the death penalty, and it cannot be imposed on us by the EU, even in times of rioting.

For you to phrase the provision as "the death penalty applies within the EU in times of rioting" is disgracefully ignorant.

Sirsok

Well joining forces worked in the Lord Of The Rings, can work here to.....Helms deep anyone....