Religion and Irish schools

Dionysus

I'm a teacher and I love it. Let's get that "admission" out of the way.

The other day all the students were instructed to leave class and go to the assembly hall for confession. I was paid for the time the students were in assembly waiting to confess their "sins" to a series of priests who were dispersed across the hall. Another eight teachers were also paid for this.

I genuinely have no problem with kids going to confession and all that as long as their parents want it. As this is an explicitly Catholic school, the parents in question clearly do want this. However, I do have a problem with this happening during school time, when the taxpayer is paying our salaries.

This was my first experience of this but it is, by all accounts, a regular event. I'm dumbfounded that this sort of intrusion on teaching can be officially sanctioned. For my own part, I had scheduled a lesson and wanted to talk to a couple of kids in particular about aspects of their work and generally teach the class and move them on. Work had to be done, and it is much more satisfying to be able to teach for this time rather than be paid for doing absolutely nothing. This is a waste of resources by the state.

There is no reason, in my mind, why children cannot do this on their parents' time rather than have the state employing (and paying) teachers as professionals and parents, in effect, using us as glorified childminders. The more this carry on continues the more I see how the state is getting bad value (as well as all the obvious other factors) from allowing schools to be controlled by particular religious institutions.

However, I have heard other people saying parents should have a right to send their children to the state-funded religious school of their choice, as is the current system.

Do you favour complete separation of church and state in state schools, or a continuation of the present system?

wylo

Parents have a right to send their children to state schools of their religion

brings back memories of having to make up a load of bullsh1t lies to a priest cause I wasnt going to use my real confessions, depicted nicely in the film 'In Bruge'

Regarding your main point, why dont you contact other teachers and perhaps voice your opinion in a united fashion.

SV

Parents have a right to send their children to state schools of their religion

Religion should not exist in schools.
End of.

It's not education, it's fear and brainwashing.

biko

Parents have a right to send their children to state schools of their religion

I'm against religious schools.
I'm for religion as a subject, learning about Christianity, Buddhism, Judaism, Shintoism, Islam, ..., ...
When children grow up they can subscribe to a religion if they so choose. Just as long as they are not forced into it I'm ok with it.
I'm atheist btw

Mike 1972

Parents have a right to send their children to state schools of their religion

Parents have a right to send their children to state schools of their religion

Presumably this would include atheists or for that matter adherents of any of the (dozens ? Hundreds ?) of other religions with followers in Ireland

multiply that by the number of towns in Ireland (plus one for each area of Dublin)

Anyone else see the problem here ?

Dionysus

Parents have a right to send their children to state schools of their religion

Dionysus wrote: »

As this is an explicitly Catholic school, the parents in question clearly do want this.

Almost all the primary schools in this country are Catholic.

ejmaztec

The monotony of religion gives some of them a break from the monotony of some teachers' lessons. These little religious breaks are good craic if they're not taken at all seriously. I never got into the "solemnity" of it all, and neither did any of my contemporaries, apart from the odd one or two that reckoned they were going to be priests.

Antbert

Parents have a right to send their children to state schools of their religion

Dionysus wrote: »

I genuinely have no problem with kids going to confession and all that as long as their parents want it. As this is an explicitly Catholic school, the parents in question clearly do want this. However, I do have a problem with this happening during school time, when the taxpayer is paying our salaries.

I have a problem with sending children to confession full stop. It sickens me that children are told (even by their parents) that they're sinners and they have to go and confess their sins to a priest. I remember refusing to go to confession when I was about 11 and I got in huge amounts of trouble from my teacher, and was essentially forced.

Most people will think that there should be private religious schools so that parents can send their children to a school with a religion of their choice. This is a preferable system to the current one, but I still don't think religion has any place in schools.

The thing is, there's a big difference between 'no religion' and 'a religion'. Kids don't go to secular schools to be "taught atheism". They just aren't taught that any specific religion is the correct one. By all means, teach them about world religions. In fact I'd be annoyed if they didn't. But none should be taught as the truth.

I don't think religious schools should exist, even privately. If parents insist on indoctrinating their children, do it in their own time. The Invisible Sky Wizard has no place alongside teaching maths and science.

we'llallhavetea_old

Parents have a right to send their children to state schools of their religion

i'd love it (like many others i'm sure) if there was no religion in schools.

my daughter started in sept, i don't mind her participating in the nativity story and learning the "story" of jesus, but i've told her that it is just that, a story.

she won't be making her communion and tbh its really stressful and worrying about when the time comes as i'm afraid she will be the outcast. it really shouldn't be like that.

Dionysus

Parents have a right to send their children to state schools of their religion

Deleted User wrote: »

Almost all the primary schools in this country are Catholic.

True, which makes it a huge possibility that as a teacher you will be told in an interview: "You are aware that this is a Catholic school. If you are offered this post, will you have any problem with this?"

And with that the response of the vast majority of teachers in Ireland are seriously limited. That sort of point or question should never be asked in an interview when it is the Irish state which will be paying our salaries. There are so many contradictions in the current system.

PS: In my case, the parents are paying a significant amount of money to send their children to this explicitly Catholic secondary school ergo they clearly have little problem with confession and so forth. The state, however, pays our salaries, which itself is obviously wrong and facilitating the money-earning ability of a religious order.

Antbert

Parents have a right to send their children to state schools of their religion

we'llallhavetea wrote: »

she won't be making her communion and tbh its really stressful and worrying about when the time comes as i'm afraid she will be the outcast. it really shouldn't be like that.

Don't worry! In 13 years time she'll be angrily arguing on forums.

Mike 1972

Parents have a right to send their children to state schools of their religion

Deleted User wrote: »

Almost all the primary schools in this country are Catholic.

Which is why the notion that "Parents have a right to send their children to state schools of their religion" is intellectiually dishonest bull****.

What they really mean is that ""Roman Catholic parents have a right to send their children to state schools of their religion and everyone else can go and **** themselves"

Dionysus

Parents have a right to send their children to state schools of their religion

Antbert wrote: »

Most people will think that there should be private religious schools so that parents can send their children to a school with a religion of their choice. This is a preferable system to the current one, but I still don't think religion has any place in schools.

Good points. However, it should be made clear to everybody that in the current "private" school system where religious institutions control the schools in question, the Irish state pays for salaries (and other things). At the latest count, these supposedly "private" denominational schools are diverting €100 million from the public school system. That is a huge cost.

Taxpayers fund private schools to tune of €100m:


http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2009/1106/1224258193326.html

we'llallhavetea_old

Parents have a right to send their children to state schools of their religion

Antbert wrote: »

Don't worry! In 13 years time she'll be angrily arguing on forums.

ha ha i know! its just a terrifying prospect that she may feel left out and maybe want to make her communion. i really don't know how i'm going to handle the whole situation. i really don't want her to have to go through first confession, i thinks thats the worst thing to put a child through. (for me it was anyway)

Antbert

Parents have a right to send their children to state schools of their religion

we'llallhavetea wrote: »

ha ha i know! its just a terrifying prospect that she may feel left out and maybe want to make her communion. i really don't know how i'm going to handle the whole situation. i really don't want her to have to go through first confession, i thinks thats the worst thing to put a child through. (for me it was anyway)

Pretty horrific alright. Well... I know at the time I was quite miserable in my Catholic primary school as the outcast, but I dunno. Now I think I'm quite glad I didn't just go along with it all. Character building in the long run! My Mum did have me make my confirmation though... She thought, like you, that everyone would hate me if I didn't. Turns out they all knew my family wasn't religious and hated me regardless. So in the end, it didn't make much difference.

we'llallhavetea_old

Parents have a right to send their children to state schools of their religion

Antbert wrote: »

Pretty horrific alright. Well... I know at the time I was quite miserable in my Catholic primary school as the outcast, but I dunno. Now I think I'm quite glad I didn't just go along with it all. Character building in the long run! My Mum did have me make my confirmation though... She thought, like you, that everyone would hate me if I didn't. Turns out they all knew my family wasn't religious and hated me regardless. So in the end, it didn't make much difference.

you must have been a right hateful little [EMAIL="bast@rd"]bast@rd[/EMAIL]! :pac:

i have my fingers crossed that there are others in her class that are nonreligious, so hopefully she won't be alone. but tbh i don;t know if there are.

Antbert

Parents have a right to send their children to state schools of their religion

we'llallhavetea wrote: »

you must have been a right hateful little bast@rd! :pac:

i have my fingers crossed that there are others in her class that are nonreligious, so hopefully she won't be alone. but tbh i don;t know if there are.

Haha oh my yes (Not massively relevant but bastard would generally refer to male...).

I'd say nowadays it would be quite different though. There's bound to be at least a few others in her class, as you say.

Sulmac

Parents have a right to send their children to state schools of their religion

If you want religious education for your children, you should teach them yourselves or pay for it - and I'm talking for all religions here, not just Catholic. Many seem to forget there are publicly-funded Church of Ireland, Methodist, other Christian, Islamic and Jewish schools - it's like funding sectarianism in the education sector.

SV

Parents have a right to send their children to state schools of their religion

I remember being in 5th/6th year and being referred to as an idiot as I didn't believe in god.

Yep.. Not class, year!
Then again the other schools were quite different.. Mine was full of brainless muppets.


Hopefully your daughter does alright.. I know if I ever have a child they'll be brought up with no beliefs forced on them and they can make up their mind when they're an appropriate age.

Nevyn

Parents have a right to send their children to state schools of their religion

we'llallhavetea wrote: »

i'd love it (like many others i'm sure) if there was no religion in schools.

my daughter started in sept, i don't mind her participating in the nativity story and learning the "story" of jesus, but i've told her that it is just that, a story.

she won't be making her communion and tbh its really stressful and worrying about when the time comes as i'm afraid she will be the outcast. it really shouldn't be like that.

Mine didn't' feel left out and they went to watch their classes make theirs.
Jut be open and supportive of her and make her confident and she will be grand

pooch90

Parents have a right to send their children to state schools of their religion

we'llallhavetea wrote: »

ha ha i know! its just a terrifying prospect that she may feel left out and maybe want to make her communion. i really don't know how i'm going to handle the whole situation. i really don't want her to have to go through first confession, i thinks thats the worst thing to put a child through. (for me it was anyway)

I'm also a teacher and have seen kids in class who aren't participating in the religious sacraments. They have chosen to stay for choir practice and join in with all the songs. However, when the time came for the communion/confirmation they have felt very left out. I know that doesn't offer you any solace but just thought I'd let you know about my experience of it.

Personally I hate the fact that religion is 'forced' on so many children/parents. It's all well saying "send the kids to non-denominational schools" but in so many areas these schools aren't available. I'm originally from a small country town which had the main RC school and a tiny CofI school. We didn't even know the Church of Ireland kids in our town as there was no opportunity to interact with them. This school has since closed and the C of I kids have been forced into the RC school. It's either this or send them to a school 40 miles away.

I know so many teachers who have little or no faith in any religion but yet put on the halo for interviews. Don't see the logic in having an atheist conducting religious ceremonies.

My OH was educated in Belgium, they were simply taught to respect all religions and a little bit about each in school. All specific religious education was taught externally and it was up to the parents to determine the child's level of participation in religion. I would love to see this being introduced in Ireland.

There are so many parents who will throw €500 at a communion with the big dresses and parties and never bring the child to mass outside of this time. It's just absolutely ridiculous.

DB10

I wonder will the Protestant schools give up religion as easy....:rolleyes:

bluto63

Parents have a right to send their children to state schools of their religion

we'llallhavetea wrote: »

i'd love it (like many others i'm sure) if there was no religion in schools.

my daughter started in sept, i don't mind her participating in the nativity story and learning the "story" of jesus, but i've told her that it is just that, a story.

she won't be making her communion and tbh its really stressful and worrying about when the time comes as i'm afraid she will be the outcast. it really shouldn't be like that.

Is your daughter baptised?

Sulmac

Parents have a right to send their children to state schools of their religion

Another thing that's a joke is that schools are allowed to discriminate when hiring against those who don't accept/comply with their "ethos" - such as atheists and homosexuals. This also extends to students, with those from "their own" side (e.g. Catholics) getting to skip the queue of other applicant pupils.

And we call ourselves a "modern" Republic? Yeah, right.

ejmaztec

pooch90 wrote: »

There are so many parents who will throw €500 at a communion with the big dresses and parties and never bring the child to mass outside of this time. It's just absolutely ridiculous.

I agree, it's laughable.

That nonsensicle over-priced pageantry goes against the grain of any religion, but the plebs think that throwing money at is the way to go. For them it's one-upmanship and feck all to do with religion.

brummytom

Sulmac wrote: »

Another thing that's a joke is that schools are allowed to discriminate when hiring against those who don't accept/comply with their "ethos" - such as atheists and homosexuals. This also extends to students, with those from "their own" side (e.g. Catholics) getting to skip the queue of other applicant pupils.

I know I'm in a different country; but:
We have two openly gay teachers in my school. They don't go round wearing a t-shirt with Elton John's face on it, but it's common knowledge among the staff and students alike.

I also know for a fact that an awful amount of our teachers are atheist or CofE; again, this isn't publicised but still well known. The point is, schools don't discriminate against teachers because of their sexuality or beliefs at all. Teachers are, in their contract, required to uphold Catholic teachings, but are in no way required to practice them (well, they have to go to a few masses a year but that's no skin off their nose).

The admissions policy, I don't see the problem. In a Catholic school, of course the majority of the students should be Catholic - the diocese is partly funding it, after all. If you were applying for a job in a bank, you would be expected to have some sort of qualifications in maths/accounting. If you're applying to a Catholic school, I think it's reasonable Catholic children should have priority. However, many schools now allow non-catholics to attend.
One school my dad worked at (and attended, actually) had too many non-Catholics coming in; Catholics in fact became a minority. So the Church decided they wouldn't fund it any more. Seems harsh, but to be honest, I think it's perfectly reasonable.

Personally, and no offence to anyone here, but I think people are embittered by their own experiences of Catholic education. It really has changed.

SV

Parents have a right to send their children to state schools of their religion

brummytom wrote: »

Personally, and no offence to anyone here, but I think people are embittered by their own experiences of Catholic education. It really has changed.

Tom, i'm not THAT much older than you. Are you honestly saying it has changed that dramatically in.. Say.. 6..7 years?

Mike 1972

Parents have a right to send their children to state schools of their religion

Sulmac wrote: »

Another thing that's a joke is that schools are allowed to discriminate when hiring against those who don't accept/comply with their "ethos" - such as atheists and homosexuals.

In theory this could even extend to hetrosexual teachers who openly cohabit with an (unmarried/divorced) partner ?

Dionysus

Parents have a right to send their children to state schools of their religion

brummytom wrote: »

I know I'm in a different country; but:
We have two openly gay teachers in my school. They don't go round wearing a t-shirt with Elton John's face on it, but it's common knowledge among the staff and students alike.

I also know for a fact that an awful amount of our teachers are atheist or CofE; again, this isn't publicised but still well known. The point is, schools don't discriminate against teachers because of their sexuality or beliefs at all. Teachers are, in their contract, required to uphold Catholic teachings, but are in no way required to practice them (well, they have to go to a few masses a year but that's no skin off their nose).

The admissions policy, I don't see the problem. In a Catholic school, of course the majority of the students should be Catholic - the diocese is partly funding it, after all. However, many schools allow non-catholics to attend.
One school my dad worked at (and attended, actually) had too many non-Catholics coming in; Catholics in fact became a minority. So the Church decided they wouldn't fund it any more. Seems harsh, but to be honest, I think it's perfectly reasonable.

Personally, and no offence to anyone here, but I think people are embittered by their own experiences of Catholic education; it really has changed.

But that is surely discrimination when teachers are paid to teach their subject and are paid by the state, which in Ireland is a secular state? Why, for example, should a Maths or Irish teacher have a duty to uphold any religious belief in any state-funded educational institution?

In interviews I have always said I've had no problem teaching in a Catholic school, but if any teacher said 'No' to that question they might as well give up on the idea of being a teacher in Ireland. For the record, I would feel precisely the same about schools of other religions, and would have answered the same. And this applies to any potential atheist school, many atheists in my experience seem to have as much certainty and zealousness about their own beliefs as any of those they (often rightly) criticise.

brummytom

SV wrote: »

Tom, i'm not THAT much older than you. Are you honestly saying it has changed that dramatically in.. Say.. 6..7 years?

No, probably not in all honesty. As I say, I've very little knowledge of the Irish education system, so I'm just going on my own experiences.

I really, honestly don't feel Catholicism is pushed down our throats. I don't feel brainwashed, and we're encouraged to think for ourselves. We study other religions (CofE; Judaism, Islam, Hinduism) in depth and are taught to respect their beliefs. It may be different over their, I really don't know; I'm just offering my own opinion

Xluna

Parents have a right to send their children to state schools of their religion

School should be for learning about the physical and Sunday school should be for learning about the metaphysical. All state schools should be secular. If parents want to indoctrinate their children in a faith then let them send the kids to Sunday school. It's really that simple. If some parents are that obsessed with forcing their religion down their kids throats then they can pay for a private religious school.

Sulmac

Parents have a right to send their children to state schools of their religion

Mike 1972 wrote: »

In theory this could even extend to hetrosexual teachers who openly cohabit with an (unmarried/divorced) partner ?

Possibly, but I'm not sure to be honest - either way, it's not something that should be used as an indicator of how someone is or isn't able to teach.

Xluna

Parents have a right to send their children to state schools of their religion

Sulmac wrote: »

Another thing that's a joke is that schools are allowed to discriminate when hiring against those who don't accept/comply with their "ethos" - such as atheists and homosexuals. This also extends to students, with those from "their own" side (e.g. Catholics) getting to skip the queue of other applicant pupils.

And we call ourselves a "modern" Republic? Yeah, right.

Don't forget hospitals.

Dionysus

Parents have a right to send their children to state schools of their religion

Xluna wrote: »

School should be for learning about the physical and Sunday school should be for learning about the metaphysical. All state schools should be secular. If parents want to indoctrinate their children in a faith then let them send the kids to Sunday school. It's really that simple. If some parents are that obsessed with forcing their religion down their kids throats then they can pay for a private religious school.

Good points. I would be surprised if there is a single private religious school in Ireland today. Blackrock, Belvedere, Wesley et al are funded hugely by the Irish taxpayer - to the tune of €100 million. Fine Gael, through Brian Hayes, has made it very clear recently that it supports the continuation of this unjustifiable system.

Antbert

Parents have a right to send their children to state schools of their religion

brummytom wrote: »

The admissions policy, I don't see the problem. In a Catholic school, of course the majority of the students should be Catholic - the diocese is partly funding it, after all. If you were applying for a job in a bank, you would be expected to have some sort of qualifications in maths/accounting. If you're applying to a Catholic school, I think it's reasonable Catholic children should have priority. However, many schools now allow non-catholics to attend.

The MAJOR problem here is that the vast majority of schools are Catholic. Hence the need to remove religion from schools.

Xluna

Parents have a right to send their children to state schools of their religion

Dionysus wrote: »

Good points. I would be surprised if there is a single private religious school in Ireland today. Blackrock, Belvedere, Wesley et al are funded hugely by the Irish taxpayer - to the tune of €100 million. Fine Gael, through Brian Hayes, has made it very clear recently that it supports the continuation of this unjustifiable system.

I could be way off here but did'nt some Protestant school union kick up a fuss when the possibility of a reduction of state funding was on the cards recently?

Antbert

Parents have a right to send their children to state schools of their religion

Sulmac wrote: »

Another thing that's a joke is that schools are allowed to discriminate when hiring against those who don't accept/comply with their "ethos" - such as atheists and homosexuals. This also extends to students, with those from "their own" side (e.g. Catholics) getting to skip the queue of other applicant pupils.

And we call ourselves a "modern" Republic? Yeah, right.

The probelm IS the ethos though. Logically speaking, they can discriminate, because it is a Catholic school. It makes sense, from their perspective. So the thing to change is the fact that it's a Catholic school, not the fact that they discriminate because it's a Catholic school.

Sulmac

Parents have a right to send their children to state schools of their religion

Xluna wrote: »

Don't forget hospitals.

Another joke, some [publicly-funded] hospitals which are run by religious orders reject modern methods of care such as stem cells and the like. And let's not start on the whole contraception thing.

Not only is this stupid, it also limits the rights of patients for proper treatment and staff to keep at the top of their game.

No publicly-funded service should, in any way, be linked to a religion.

Antbert

Parents have a right to send their children to state schools of their religion

I keep missing bits.

Xluna wrote: »

If some parents are that obsessed with forcing their religion down their kids throats then they can pay for a private religious school.

Ah see, we agree on almost everything. I still think that private religious schools shouldn't exist. If parents insist on indoctrination, I don't think schools should be available to help them.

Dionysus

Parents have a right to send their children to state schools of their religion

Xluna wrote: »

I could be way off here but did'nt some Protestant school union kick up a fuss when the possibility of a reduction of state funding was on the cards recently?

Precisely: Wesley College was the school. The above Brian Hayes called the reduction an "outrageous attack" on minority faiths. Talk about playing politics with this serious issue. If this is the alternative the current Opposition offers, I don't expect any fundamental reform of the governance of Irish schools in the next 7 years anyway.

Xluna

Parents have a right to send their children to state schools of their religion

Dionysus wrote: »

Precisely: Wesley College was the school. The above Brian Hayes called the reduction an "outrageous attack" on minority faiths. Talk about playing politics with this serious issue. If this is the alternative the current Opposition offers, I don't expect any fundamental reform of the governance of Irish schools in the next 7 years anyway.

I'm guessing a big part of this issue is down to tribalism. It seems many traditional well to do Protestant familys consider their religion a defining factor in their identity,and probably feel an increased need to preserve it due to the almost state endorsed Catholicism since...well since De Valera came into power. By todays standards Dev was a religious fanatic but the church wanted him to go further and considered many of his policies socialist. It just goes to show you what the Republic was up against since it's birth. I can't help but wonder what Ireland would be like today had Collins lived instead of Dev....

we'llallhavetea_old

Parents have a right to send their children to state schools of their religion

Thaedydal wrote: »

Mine didn't' feel left out and they went to watch their classes make theirs.
Jut be open and supportive of her and make her confident and she will be grand

thanks thaedydal, i cant hear these comments enough!

pooch90 wrote: »

I'm also a teacher and have seen kids in class who aren't participating in the religious sacraments. They have chosen to stay for choir practice and join in with all the songs. However, when the time came for the communion/confirmation they have felt very left out. I know that doesn't offer you any solace but just thought I'd let you know about my experience of it.

oh dear....

bluto63 wrote: »

Is your daughter baptised?

my daughter is baptised, i wanted to make a precautionary effort, just incase she really wants to go that route. i can't see it happening though.

ejmaztec

brummytom wrote: »

No, probably not in all honesty. As I say, I've very little knowledge of the Irish education system, so I'm just going on my own experiences.

I really, honestly don't feel Catholicism is pushed down our throats. I don't feel brainwashed, and we're encouraged to think for ourselves. We study other religions (CofE; Judaism, Islam, Hinduism) in depth and are taught to respect their beliefs. It may be different over their, I really don't know; I'm just offering my own opinion

I was dragged up through the UK RC school system, and the religious side has always been more "user-friendly" than it's been here. I always assumed that it was because the RC church in the UK is in the minority, and isn't powerful enough to play the same meglomania game as it's done in Ireland.

In Ireland, the RC church calls the shots, whereas in the UK, it can only try to influence a situation.

Antbert

Parents have a right to send their children to state schools of their religion

I'm interested to hear from the other people who voted for state funded religious schools...

Xluna

Parents have a right to send their children to state schools of their religion

Antbert wrote: »

I'm interested to hear from the other people who voted for state funded religious schools...

* "It's right because God said so."*

Mike 1972

Parents have a right to send their children to state schools of their religion

we'llallhavetea wrote: »

my daughter is baptised, i wanted to make a precautionary effort, just incase she really wants to go that route.

Would the option of "going that route" have been open to her regardless ?????

we'llallhavetea_old

Parents have a right to send their children to state schools of their religion

i mean, the "normal" route. so she would be the same as the majority of her peers in school.

Mike 1972

Parents have a right to send their children to state schools of their religion

we'llallhavetea wrote: »

i mean, the "normal" route. so she would be the same as the majority of her peers in school.

Sulmac

Parents have a right to send their children to state schools of their religion

By the time she gets to college, most of the "normal" people will be atheist, agnostic, irreligious or, at the very least, "lapsed".

Antbert

Parents have a right to send their children to state schools of their religion

There's logic there Mike. Sad though it is. A ten year old doesn't necessarily want to be a friendless maverick.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

SV wrote: »

It's not education, it's fear and brainwashing.

In fairness, you could say that about a lot of the curriculum.

"If you don't pass this massively important Irish exam, you won't get into college and get a good job and you'll be a useless failure!"

Regarding the poll? Both options are correct. There should be no religion in STATE schools, and parents SHOULD have the option to send their kids to a religiously run school: but NOT at the taxpayers expense.