Interim examiner for Jackie Skelly

Atlantic Dawn

Looks like the Fitness industry isn't imune from the downturn...

An interim examiner has been appointed to fitness club chain Jackie Skelly, but the company says it remains open for business.
The High Court has appointed Kieran Wallace of KPMG as interim examiner after hearing that an investor was keen to inject funds into the company.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0204/jackieskelly.html

super_furry

Of all the places it could happen to, I'm not sorry that it's Jackie Skellys, considering their years of....welll...sharp practice is the only polite term I can think of.

Cadiz

So that might explain the insanely hard sell they were pushing recently and the five or more phone calls I got a day from them hassling me to join over about two weeks.

squod

They got found out.

Chet Zar

Ouch..........that's mad, must be caught in the crunch.....

NDJ4

I'm delighted for them, couldn't have happened to a nicer bunch.

tomdublin

The only thing surprising about this is how long it took given the nature of this particular outfit..... I wonder if that supposed new investor knows what he's investing in.....

liamo

I wish them well.

Whatever about their sales tactics (which I do, along with most people, think are deplorable) they employ many people and are a customer of many suppliers. If they go under it will have an effect on many hundreds of people - quite apart from the gym members (of which I am one).

This seems to have been coming for a while. The New Year Newbie morning rush simply didn't happen in January of last year and the mornings have been getting quieter ever since. They seemed to have cut back on staff and definitely haven't been maintaining equipment (i.e. spending money) as they should have.

From a purely selfish point of view, I'm not going to find another gym that is as convenient as my current JS gym. For that reason alone, I'd rather they didn't go under.

tomdublin

If they go bust it's sad for their employees, although I'm sure they know what kind of company they are working for. At the same time, other more worthy gyms will benefit and their staff will be more secure as a result. People stopped joining not just because of the recession but also because the thousands of horror stories about this gym. In other countries a company like this would have been cosed down by the authorities a long time ago - amazing it survived as long as it did.

liamo wrote: »

I wish them well.

Whatever about their sales tactics (which I do, along with most people, think are deplorable) they employ many people and are a customer of many suppliers. If they go under it will have an effect on many hundreds of people - quite apart from the gym members (of which I am one).

This seems to have been coming for a while. The New Year Newbie morning rush simply didn't happen in January of last year and the mornings have been getting quieter ever since. They seemed to have cut back on staff and definitely haven't been maintaining equipment (i.e. spending money) as they should have.

From a purely selfish point of view, I'm not going to find another gym that is as convenient as my current JS gym. For that reason alone, I'd rather they didn't go under.

Fiskar

super_furry wrote: »

Of all the places it could happen to, I'm not sorry that it's Jackie Skellys, considering their years of....welll...sharp practice is the only polite term I can think of.

Totally agree, another franchise that didn't change it's policy with changing times. All I remember is the staunch policy on changing membership from family to single use + kids. It cost them our memberships and wouldn't touch them with a barge pole again.
:P

The Davestator

I agree that they use 'sharp' sales practices, but these same practices are commonplace in the UK and elsewhere.

I really dont agree with a lot of it (and i know them well)

However;

A lot of the public seem to think that the leisure business is not a business, but it is and most companies use sharp sales practices, especially in a recession.

You might not realise it, but if you joined a gym, chances are, the sales person was fully trained and knew what buttons to press for you to join.

p.s. I've worked sales / management in most of the chains and I know this to be true. As with everything, exceptions apply.

The Guvnor

Cadiz wrote: »

So that might explain the insanely hard sell they were pushing recently and the five or more phone calls I got a day from them hassling me to join over about two weeks.

I don't think so mate. As soon as JS became a chain the tactics and attitude changed and not for the better.

As was said sharp practice became the norm which is never a good look. However with €5M in VC behind them I can imagine there was a lot of pressure to deliver and meet targets!

The original gym in Clarendon Street was a massive success and great for ladies into all manner of aerobics and aerobic dance, definitely ahead of it's time and a great place with a great atmosphere.

Sadly I am old enough to remember this gym!:)

Barry.Oglesby

While I'm tempted to say "up yer gicker Skelly's!" as I've heard about so many horror stories, I know a few people employed by them and it wouldn't be nice if they lost their gigs. Hopefully someone invests in them and they keep them going. It would be a large closure if it happened.

liamo

Article in the Irish Times with a bit more info

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2010/0205/1224263813765.html

pinkypinky

Gotta second what Liamo said. I'm a member in one of their gyms, it's by far the most convenient and I get a lot out of it. I've also paid upfront for several months of this year (renewal Sept.) so I'm now a little concerned that I might actually lose money as well as my gym if it goes under.

LFC5Times

I was going to join the Jackie Skellys near me in Nutgrove on Monday - apparently you can sign up for 4 months (which suits me best).

Is there any point in joining now?

According to the Irish Times article in post 14 it says:

Bernard Dunleavy, for the directors, said if any of the clubs have to be closed as part of the examinership process membership fees will be returned.

So if I do join for four months and it goes under in that time, am I safe?

Cheers

FunkZ

Even if they don't go under 5Times, they are scammers and when the contract runs out they'll try and **** you over.

The Davestator

I'm fairly sure that nutgrove does well so I wouldn't be worried if u was you

LFC5Times

LazyFingers wrote: »

Even if they don't go under 5Times, they are scammers and when the contract runs out they'll try and **** you over.

I think you pay upfront if you join for four months(have to check that out)

A couple of people I know signed up to Jackie Skellys for 12 month contracts and cancelled them half way through etc, just cancelled their DD (whether the DD was from their current account or visa account,Im not sure) and they keep getting phone calls from JS looking for payment, they have just told them they have no jobs and can't pay them.

Transform

badly run club but not good to see possible jobs being lost

tomdublin

Giving them money upfront now is the last thing I'd do. My guess is if they get liquidated you will never see your money again, despite what their spokesperson says (the place isn't exactly known for its honesty or integrity even at the best of times). You will have to queue alongside all the other creditors, many of whose claims will have priority over yours.

LFC5Times wrote: »

I was going to join the Jackie Skellys near me in Nutgrove on Monday - apparently you can sign up for 4 months (which suits me best).

Is there any point in joining now?

According to the Irish Times article in post 14 it says:



So if I do join for four months and it goes under in that time, am I safe?

Cheers

liamo

tomdublin wrote: »

Giving them money upfront now is the last thing I'd do. My guess is if they get liquidated you will never see your money again, despite what their spokesperson says (the place isn't exactly known for its honesty or integrity even at the best of times). You will have to queue alongside all the other creditors, many of whose claims will have priority over yours.

That sounds like pretty good advice.

They wouldn't have been granted the protection of examinership if the court wasn't convinced that it was a viable business that needed to be restructured in order to get back on its feet. So I don't think they're quite ready to be written off just yet (with sympathy to the gloating posters earlier in this thread ).

As part of that restructuring, I reckon they'll dump any branches that aren't pulling their weight and keep the profitable ones (I'm selfishly hoping that Parkwest and Nutgrove are kept going).

However, with the uncertainty that the examinership brings to the situation, I certainly wouldn't be handing over lump sums to them until they're out of examinership for a while.

I think they've found themselves in this situation (as well as because of the current downturn) in no small part due to the dreadful reputation that they've managed to create for themselves. I wonder will they learn anything from this and try to rebuild their shattered reputation? I hope so.

LFC5Times

tomdublin wrote: »

Giving them money upfront now is the last thing I'd do. My guess is if they get liquidated you will never see your money again, despite what their spokesperson says (the place isn't exactly known for its honesty or integrity even at the best of times). You will have to queue alongside all the other creditors, many of whose claims will have priority over yours.

I rang them up there and you can join for four months and pay by DD monthly or else pay by cash by a certain date each month but they still want your bank details.

Your one said €63 a month and a €29 admin fee.

From other posters experience is there any haggling with these people?

liamo

LFC5Times wrote: »

I rang them up there and you can join for four months and pay by DD monthly or else pay by cash by a certain date each month but they still want your back details.

Your one said €63 a month and a €29 admin fee.

From other posters experience is there any haggling with these people?

€63 a month is b0ll0x. Mine is €50 per month and someone I know got a monthly DD for a little less recently.

Also, this "Admin Fee" is just horse-sh!te!! They used to call it a "Joining Fee". Admin Fee my arse! It's just another way of screwing more money out of members.

They're well known for charging whatever they can get away with. I imagine that they're desperate to get any and all business they can at the moment so it would be interesting to see what would happen if you were to offer no admin fee and €50 per month as a final offer (and were prepared to walk away if they don't play ball).

LFC5Times

liamo wrote: »

€63 a month is b0ll0x. Mine is €50 per month and someone I know got a monthly DD for a little less recently.

Also, this "Admin Fee" is just horse-sh!te!! They used to call it a "Joining Fee". Admin Fee my arse! It's just another way of screwing more money out of members.

They're well known for charging whatever they can get away with. I imagine that they're desperate to get any and all business they can at the moment so it would be interesting to see what would happen if you were to offer no admin fee and €50 per month as a final offer (and were prepared to walk away if they don't play ball).

Are you on a yearly subscription? I presume it would be cheaper per month on a yearly sub as a pose to a 4 month sub.

Yeh your right about the admin fee - all for filling out a few pages.

When I head up there and am given the quick tour I'm sure there will be a sales manager up there who I can chat with.

To be honest the only other gym that I could get to that is near enough is Carlisle and while it is cheaper and all, there is too many people I know in it and from the people I know there it is fairly packed a lot of the time.

tomdublin

I guess by "back details" you mean "bank details" - that sounds dodgy. If you pay cash why would they want your bank details unless they intend to screw you in one form or another once the contract has expired (they will claim you didn't tell them early enough that you don't want to renew it, or something like that). If you accept their offer you should at least give them a fake account number just to be on the safe side.

LFC5Times wrote: »

I rang them up there and you can join for four months and pay by DD monthly or else pay by cash by a certain date each month but they still want your back details.

Your one said €63 a month and a €29 admin fee.

From other posters experience is there any haggling with these people?

liamo

LFC5Times wrote: »

Are you on a yearly subscription? I presume it would be cheaper per month on a yearly sub as a pose to a 4 month sub.

No, I'm on a monthly DD. I am frequently shocked by the monthly amounts I hear about. I know someone who was on €72 per month. WTF is that about? That's almost 50% more than me!

Regarding the 4 month sub. Do you still have to give (the usual two months) notice after two months into the 4 month sub in order for the membership to actually expire at the end of the 4 months?

LFC5Times

liamo wrote: »

No, I'm on a monthly DD. I am frequently shocked by the monthly amounts I hear about. I know someone who was on €72 per month. WTF is that about? That's almost 50% more than me!

Regarding the 4 month sub. Do you still have to give (the usual two months) notice after two months into the 4 month sub in order for the membership to actually expire at the end of the 4 months?

So can you cancel your monthly DD any time or you on a contract of some sort?

I don't know tbh what notice you have to give them, I am supposed to pop into them next week so I presume I would find out/ask then.

If they have any sense they would be willing to haggle on prices/admin fees, if they don't good luck to them they can blame it on the sales people they have in there if they go under.

liamo

LFC5Times wrote: »

So can you cancel your monthly DD any time or you on a contract of some sort?

I was on a 12 month contract which has expired long ago. As such, I can cancel at any time but only as long as I give two months notice.

I don't know tbh what notice you have to give them, I am supposed to pop into them next week so I presume I would find out/ask then.

I can't see it being any different. The two months notice seems to be a standard thing. That's something to be very aware of. If after 4 months you decide not to continue, you may find them directing you to a clause in the contract where you have to give two months notice. Read the contract before you sign it. I don't have a problem with this clause because I knew about it when I signed but it catches a lot of people out.

ilovemybrick

LFC5Times wrote: »

I rang them up there and you can join for four months and pay by DD monthly or else pay by cash by a certain date each month but they still want your bank details.

Your one said €63 a month and a €29 admin fee.

From other posters experience is there any haggling with these people?

Definitively. I worked for them for some weeks over the Summer (between Graduating and actual job starting). They are sales people, and poorly trained sales people at that.

Do not pay an admin fee. It is just there so that they can "discount" it for you. If you do want to sign up, sign at the end of the month, that is when they are under pressure to hit targets. I'd recommend going early in the month, seeing what they offer you (the rate is essentially a point between a maximum and a minimum that the sales staff make up) and then going back nearer the end of the month when they will have to offer you a better deal. Ask them what their KPI (key performance indicators are) any proper sales person knows the factors they are judged on and it isn't always simple turnover. Use this to your advantage. If you want to sign up with kids, do not bring them. They will be targeted for the sell. ie "wouldnt it be nice to come swimming here every couple of days" etc. Be brazen, ask for a discount.

Overall, go join another more professional gym.

squod

LFC5Times wrote: »

I rang them up there and you can join for four months and pay by DD monthly or else pay by cash by a certain date each month but they still want your bank details.

Your one said €63 a month and a €29 admin fee.

From other posters experience is there any haggling with these people?

ilovemybrick wrote: »

Overall, go join another more professional gym.

Exactly, no amount of discount would make me want to join a JS, fairly poor outfit IMO. Most decent gyms are cheaper.

aphex™

I really ****ed over their sales staff when I joined. I still talk about it to this day to anybody who will listen. Got a great price and the sales person was so pissed off he left a message on my phone explaining in depth that I was not to call back for any more discounts.

Once you're over the joining hurdle it's a very good gym. Nutgrove being the best gym for miles around South Dublin in my opinion

That Ballsbridge place looks like it has very high rent...

LFC5Times

aphex™ wrote: »

I really ****ed over their sales staff when I joined. I still talk about it to this day to anybody who will listen. Got a great price and the sales person was so pissed off he left a message on my phone explaining in depth that I was not to call back for any more discounts.

Once you're over the joining hurdle it's a very good gym. Nutgrove being the best gym for miles around South Dublin in my opinion

That Ballsbridge place looks like it has very high rent...

How much did you get it in the end?

LeoB

I am a bit suprised at what I am reading here. I dont use gym's at all but I have heard more good reports about the place than bad one's I have also heard about their "sales pitch" if that is what you want to call it.

I hope it survives if only for the sake of saving the jobs in their Gym's but the other small companies who do work for them and supply them with various goods

Transform

LeoB wrote: »

I am a bit suprised at what I am reading here. I dont use gym's at all but I have heard more good reports about the place than bad one's I have also heard about their "sales pitch" if that is what you want to call it.

I hope it survives if only for the sake of saving the jobs in their Gym's but the other small companies who do work for them and supply them with various goods

exactly

Red Alert

I'm a member of JS and go to the Nutgrove one, I really hope it's not closed down. I have a review on it in the sticky thread that's mostly positive and for what I need it fits the bill. They're not a power-lifting gym, they're not a boutique gym etc but for a lot of people they offer the right experience. And as one of the posters above pointed out, all gyms are essentially a business and have to be operated as such - they're not a charity.

They've a pretty good team of staff in Nutgrove, the majority of those I've dealt with in terms of trainers and on reception have been very helpful and I'd hate to see them lose their jobs. In particular, one of the instructors who works the weekends there is very sound, relaxed, encouraging, knows his stuff inside out and will check up on how you're getting on. I've made great progress since I got to know him.

The big problem with the chain as I see it is that they have an overly sales-focused attitude. They really have ramped up their advertising on stuff like sunbeds (topic for another thread actually) and supplements in the past couple of weeks. A lot of people simply avoid them even before going to look at the place because of their sales tactics. When I went first to have a look at Nutgrove, I told the sales guy straight away that I'd still got 6 months prepaid in Crunch, so he wasn't going to be making a sale today. So he gave me a quick spiel about the prices and the facilities, and said I was free to have a wander around and a workout since I'd my gear with me. That seems to be quite different from the hard sell that I see most people getting when they're being brought around by the sales staff. When I did eventually join up, I got a great deal for a year pre-paid for peanuts.

So in short I've had a great experience with their Nutgrove gym, but I've managed to avoid getting locked into a DD contract by a bit of hard-nosing when I was signing up.

Snoopy1

Well ive used the one in Swords for years, and recently had to transfer to the Parkwest one. Ive never had a problem at either of these gyms, and i would hate to see them go under

sdanseo

I got stopped by a promo person for Jackie Skelly in the Pavilions SC in Swords today, suprised they can afford that! Signed up for a free day pass then asked her how much annual student membership was.

She couldn't tell me, at which point I stopped listening, crumpled up my free day pass and walked off. :rolleyes:

Zambia

The Guvnor wrote: »

I don't think so mate. As soon as JS became a chain the tactics and attitude changed and not for the better.

As was said sharp practice became the norm which is never a good look. However with €5M in VC behind them I can imagine there was a lot of pressure to deliver and meet targets!

The original gym in Clarendon Street was a massive success and great for ladies into all manner of aerobics and aerobic dance, definitely ahead of it's time and a great place with a great atmosphere.

Sadly I am old enough to remember this gym!:)

I remember that gym to 1998-2000 , it was a really good spot for those of us working in the city the staff where top notch. I used to be in a 7 finished at 8.30 off for a slap up fry , then in to work at 9.00.

I used to pay for the gym up front per year, but in 2000 when I renewed I went per month on DD. I was "reminded" a few days later by the manager I could not just pull out of paying till the year was up. I felt really pissed off at this as I had been a loyal member for ages.

I left a few weeks later I cancelled the DD and pretty much blanked any calls as to why I was not attending or paying.

tomdublin

Going by the postings on here and elsewhere thousands of people seem to have had pretty much the same experience... It's bizarre that they were running their business in a way that was ultimately bound to finish them off because of the self-inflicted reputational damage . That's also why I don't really buy the story of the mystery investor who supposedly wants to invest millions in that chain. If I was an investor wanting to invest in Irish gyms I wouln't want to spend it on such a damaged brand ....

District_9 wrote: »

I remember that gym to 1998-2000 , it was a really good spot for those of us working in the city the staff where top notch. I used to be in a 7 finished at 8.30 off for a slap up fry , then in to work at 9.00.

I used to pay for the gym up front per year, but in 2000 when I renewed I went per month on DD. I was "reminded" a few days later by the manager I could not just pull out of paying till the year was up. I felt really pissed off at this as I had been a loyal member for ages.

I left a few weeks later I cancelled the DD and pretty much blanked any calls as to why I was not attending or paying.

Chet Zar

tomdublin wrote: »

If I was an investor wanting to invest in Irish gyms I wouln't want to spend it on such a damaged brand ....

Or you could invest in it, turn it around and produce a completely different brand out of it instead.

The Davestator

sdonn wrote: »

I got stopped by a promo person for Jackie Skelly in the Pavilions SC in Swords today, suprised they can afford that! Signed up for a free day pass then asked her how much annual student membership was.

She couldn't tell me, at which point I stopped listening, crumpled up my free day pass and walked off. :rolleyes:

Well done:rolleyes:

They're just promo people and dont know anything about the club and have probably never been inside the door!

Hanley

The Davestator wrote: »

Well done:rolleyes:

They're just promo people and dont know anything about the club and have probably never been inside the door!

Would you not expect a minimum level of knowledge about the club and it's pricing structure from someone who's trying to sell you the place??

tomdublin

Even if you managed to turn it into the most honest, caring, integrity-filled, non-greedy and customer-focussed gym chain in the world, the stigma of the damaged brand would stay for a long time as would the thousands resentful ex-customers who have sworn never to give it another try. Much easier to just build up a new brand from scratch.

Chet Zar wrote: »

Or you could invest in it, turn it around and produce a completely different brand out of it instead.

Hanley

tomdublin wrote: »

Even if you managed to turn it into the most honest, caring, integrity-filled, non-greedy and customer-focussed gym chain in the world, the stigma of the damaged brand would stay for a long time as would the thousands resentful ex-customers who have sworn never to give it another try. Much easier to just build up a new brand from scratch.

All you're really buying is the cash flow from the member list and equipment, the brand can easily be ditched. Unfortunately there's probably still some sort of premium attached cos of the JS name..w hich is ironic.

Depending on what sort of numbers are being kicked about, it could be a good investment.

Ais30

pinkypinky wrote: »

Gotta second what Liamo said. I'm a member in one of their gyms, it's by far the most convenient and I get a lot out of it. I've also paid upfront for several months of this year (renewal Sept.) so I'm now a little concerned that I might actually lose money as well as my gym if it goes under.

Hi Pinkypinky, they have said they will return fees if your gym closes but I don't see it getting to that stage. Hopefully it will give them the shake up they need and they'll learn if you treat your members well and lower prices they will continue their membership and not start stalking people when they cancel!!!

sdanseo

The Davestator wrote: »

Well done:rolleyes:

They're just promo people and dont know anything about the club and have probably never been inside the door!

Well if a person being paid by the club to try and attract customers isn't even told (her words not mine) how much membership is, I'm not going to pay them any attention. I mean it's a basic question, not like I asked here what the average temperature of the pool was or some such...I'll use one of Ben Dunne's clubs instead.

The Davestator

Hanley wrote: »

Would you not expect a minimum level of knowledge about the club and it's pricing structure from someone who's trying to sell you the place??

the problem for the promo people is that there are so many prices, dd annual, family etc that it just leads to confusion when the person gets the actual prices in the club. The promo staff might only do it one day and as there not employed by JSF they don't care about getting it wrong.

I'm not saying it's right but better to say nothing than give false info is the policy.

Ps. I don't work for JSF or promo company!

Chet Zar

You couldn't expect promo people handing out flyers on the street to know about that kinda stuff! They're not official company reps and I don't think many people would view them as such. They are just there to hand out pieces of paper so that you know about the offer and can follow up on it yourself if you so choose. Sure they prob hand out leaflets for dozens of different companies every week.

Hanley

The Davestator wrote: »

the problem for the promo people is that there are so many prices, dd annual, family etc that it just leads to confusion when the person gets the actual prices in the club. The promo staff might only do it one day and as there not employed by JSF they don't care about getting it wrong.

I'm not saying it's right but better to say nothing than give false info is the policy.

Ps. I don't work for JSF or promo company!

A well formatted, laminated cheat sheet would take 15 minutes to prepare. I'm sorry, but there's simply no excuse for having promo people who don't know the most basic information on what they're trying to promote.

If their promotions are indicative of the way the clubs are run, it's no surprise they're in trouble.

Jeez, how Seth Godin do I sound?

Drummerboy08

Seemed to be business as usual last night in Nutgrove anyhow (bar the water being cut off, although I think that was more DCC than anyone else..)