O'Callaghan out; Cullen in. Ryan to bench

ironingbored

"Donncha O'Callaghan has been withdrawn from the Ireland team to play Italy in Saturday's RBS 6 Nations opener, after suffering a setback with a knee injury on Wednesday. Leo Cullen will take his place in the second row alongside Paul O'Connell, with Donnacha Ryan added to the replacements bench."

Would have liked to see Bob Casey on the bench. Really hope Leo has a good game.

Trojan

I think Casey's time has gone, sadly.

I'm delighted for Leo, thought he deserved to start.

Riskymove

the way things are at present (i.e. being at least 4th choice) I couldn't see Casey being brought over to be in the squad but not the 22, its a waste of time

however, if two of the locks were put for any period of time i think he could be drafted in

pappyodaniel

Best of luck to the mullicker, he's as honest a grafter as they come and he deserves a start.

Deedsie

Delighted to see D Ryan on the bench. Hopefully he'll get on for some of it. Cover for the back row aswell.

steve_r

As much as I love Leo, I find it hard to see him making the french or welsh team - it shows the lack of depth we have. Isn't Donnacha Ryan a flanker?!

Riskymove

steve_r wrote: »

Isn't Donnacha Ryan a flanker?!

he can play second row or back row

tommy57

casey would of been the better choice .cullen did,nt play to well the last time he lined out for Ireland

Mr.Applepie

steve_r wrote: »

As much as I love Leo, I find it hard to see him making the french or welsh team - it shows the lack of depth we have. Isn't Donnacha Ryan a flanker?!

How does the captain of the current Heineken Cup Champions, who has occasionally made Jackman look like a half decent thrower, not making the team show a lack of depth?

You have Casey, Cullen, Ryan, MAL, MOD, Caldwell who could all come in and do a good job... maybe not as good as DOC & POC but that's why they aren't 1st choice

JustinDee

steve_r wrote: »

As much as I love Leo, I find it hard to see him making the french or welsh team - it shows the lack of depth we have. Isn't Donnacha Ryan a flanker?!

There is no lack of depth in those positions. There is a queue of good quality waiting to get their chance. Cullen has played very well this season and also makes use of experience of big games.

Donncha Ryan is not only a defensive flanker but also a top notch scrummaging lock forward. Definitely one for the future.

Riskymove

Blackthorne wrote: »

How does the captain of the current Heineken Cup Champions, who has occasionally made Jackman look like a half decent thrower, not making the team show a lack of depth?

You have Casey, Cullen, Ryan, MAL, MOD, Caldwell who could all come in and do a good job... maybe not as good as DOC & POC but that's why they aren't 1st choice

dont forget Toner, "huge" potential :pac:

Podge_irl

Obviously why Ryan wasn't in the A squad. Already a lot more injuries to deal with this year than last and it hasn't even started yet! I imagine if there was another injury to a lock you'd see Casey coming in to the equation then - there's no way Caldwell or Toner could go near international rugby, Ryan is a dodgy enough sub as it is given his lack of serious game time.

buck65

O Callaghan is a massive loss. Some here may not agree but they are wrong.
Luckily it is only Italy we are playing. Cullen will be fine.

wixfjord

buck65 wrote: »

O Callaghan is a massive loss. Some here may not agree but they are wrong.
Luckily it is only Italy we are playing. Cullen will be fine.

Good point. I am intrigued by your ideas and wish to subscribe to your newsletter.

Heineken Cup winning captain and proclaimed lineout exponent, who beat both POC and DOC twice in the last year. Is he that far behind DOC?

Trojan

buck65 wrote: »

Some here may not agree but they are wrong.

Lol.

The joys of reasoned debate, eh?

thomond2006

wixfjord wrote: »

I am intrigued by your ideas and wish to subscribe to your newsletter.

As recommended by G Hook:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/rugby_union/article7013568.ece?token=null&offset=72&page=7

Persiancowboy

Big big loss epecially when it's Cullen coming in as replacement. He is not international standard ...like Munster's Mick o'Driscoll he is a plodder who can hack it in the Magners and occasionally in the Heino. Shame the brains trust did not look at other options. Hopefully Ryan will get some game time...he's a scrapper and definitely one for the future whereas Cullen's best days are behind him. Toner, Caldwell and especially Casey must be chewing their mi**ies in frustration at this stage...

Riskymove

wixfjord wrote: »

who beat both POC and DOC twice in the last year.

:rolleyes: on his own was it? fight club or something?

EVERY thread without fail

buck65

Was O Callaghan even mentioned in the poll about potential big losses for the 6 nations?

One of Ireland's most underrated players ever.

As I said Cullen will be fine. A workhorse, solid as you like. BTW this isn't a Munster/Leinster thing with me , just pointing out a lack of appreciation on this forum for the big man. I suppose there is safety in numbers.

premierstone

Riskymove wrote: »

:rolleyes: on his own was it? fight club or something?

EVERY thread without fail

Dont bite Risky!!

buck65

wixfjord wrote: »

Good point. I am intrigued by your ideas and wish to subscribe to your newsletter.

Heineken Cup winning captain and proclaimed lineout exponent, who beat both POC and DOC twice in the last year. Is he that far behind DOC?

Good man Wixfjord. I actually didn't say a bad word about Cullen. I was only having a go at some (ok alot) of posters here who have no time for DOC.

danthefan

buck65 wrote: »

Good man Wixfjord. I actually didn't say a bad word about Cullen. I was only having a go at some (ok alot) of posters here who have no time for DOC.

For example?

MikeHoncho

Persiancowboy wrote: »

Big big loss epecially when it's Cullen coming in as replacement. He is not international standard ...like Munster's Mick o'Driscoll he is a plodder who can hack it in the Magners and occasionally in the Heino.

Complete and utter rubbish. He is twice the player that Mick O'Driscoll is.

I look forward to him proving you wrong on Saturday.

danthefan

Persiancowboy wrote: »

Big big loss epecially when it's Cullen coming in as replacement. He is not international standard ...like Munster's Mick o'Driscoll he is a plodder who can hack it in the Magners and occasionally in the Heino. Shame the brains trust did not look at other options. Hopefully Ryan will get some game time...he's a scrapper and definitely one for the future whereas Cullen's best days are behind him. Toner, Caldwell and especially Casey must be chewing their mi**ies in frustration at this stage...

What a complete load of crap.

profitius

Cullen is a good player to be bringing in. He does alot of work, he's smart, experianced and he's a leader.


Good to see Donnacha Ryan on the bench. Someone I rate highly as does Kidney.

Macsimus

Have to feel for Doc - but delighted for Leo, its a huge chance for him.

Gonna miss Donners squaring up to every Italian on the pitch though.

danthefan

profitius wrote: »

Cullen is a good player to be bringing in. He does alot of work, he's smart, experianced and he's a leader.


Good to see Donnacha Ryan on the bench. Someone I rate highly as does Kidney.

I thought Ryan was 3rd choice lock for Ireland?

wixfjord

Riskymove wrote: »

:rolleyes: on his own was it? fight club or something?

EVERY thread without fail

Fair enough, he has beaten both POC and DOC twice together with 14 others in the last year Happy?! I dont understand the every thread without fail comment either, If its referring directly to my posting style, I am actually am not overtly biased, I feel anyway, all of us have some leaning and if anything try to steer clear of that stuff, but I will argue my opinion on a player, be they from any province.

premierstone wrote: »

Dont bite Risky!!

I also dont understand this comment. Its a fact that Leo has beaten O Connell and O Callaghan twice in the last year. This isnt trying to start anything on the thread, because the thread is about Ireland. Innit?

buck65 wrote: »

Good man Wixfjord. I actually didn't say a bad word about Cullen. I was only having a go at some (ok alot) of posters here who have no time for DOC.

You may not have said anything about Cullen, but he is DOC's direct replacement, and you did say he would be a massive loss. I agree he will be a loss, but the way you phrased it, it seemed as if you were deprecating the replacement! I actually think DOC is a great player, and as important to Munster as O Connell, so I have no qualms about that. However at Irish level, we do have a ready replacement. You see?

No need to get all riled up lads, save that for Saturday!

profitius

danthefan wrote: »

I thought Ryan was 3rd choice lock for Ireland?

I said before he will be when he gets game time.

danthefan

profitius wrote: »

I said before he will be when he gets game time.

What you said was:

You were talking about replacements for POC and DOC. Donnacha Ryan is Kidneys third choice for Ireland and I reckon he's as good as DOC.

anonymous_joe

Persiancowboy wrote: »

Big big loss epecially when it's Cullen coming in as replacement. He is not international standard ...like Munster's Mick o'Driscoll he is a plodder who can hack it in the Magners and occasionally in the Heino. Shame the brains trust did not look at other options. Hopefully Ryan will get some game time...he's a scrapper and definitely one for the future whereas Cullen's best days are behind him. Toner, Caldwell and especially Casey must be chewing their mi**ies in frustration at this stage...

*bites*

Seriously? Cullen a plodder? He tore Munster's much vaunted lineout a new one this year.

I rate Leo, Casey, DOC and POC as all of near equal ability. I'd rate POC the best, and Leo and DOC next in a tie for second. DOC's a great player, but his main reason for starting is his great partnership with POC. Which just makes both much better players.

PhatPiggins

anonymous_joe wrote: »

*bites*

Seriously? Cullen a plodder? He tore Munster's much vaunted lineout a new one this year.

I rate Leo, Casey, DOC and POC as all of near equal ability. I'd rate POC the best, and Leo and DOC next in a tie for second. DOC's a great player, but his main reason for starting is his great partnership with POC. Which just makes both much better players.

No common sense please.

In all fairness though with Dennis Fogarty at 2 George Hook would tear Munster a new one.

myflipflops

Leo Cullen isn't a world class lock forward. His ball carrying isn't dynamioc enough for that level and maybe a step or 2 form it in a couple of other areas.

He is an excellent rugby player though and it's a tight call between himself and DOC before the injury i guess (I'm a fan of the Munster man too btw). Anybody who witnessed his performance against Quins in the 1/4 final last year wouldn't doubt him. He was immense, standing out in as big a match of attrition as it gets. A lock forward like Cullen (and DOC actually) is a different beast to a Matfield or an O'Connell. They aren't huge ball carriers or big players in the loose. They know their jobs in the tight and do it to a very high level.

DOC famous appetite for viewing statistic on his play backs this up. He doesn't mind doing the hard, unseen work but he wants proof of it himself - how many rucks hit, how many clean clear outs, how many sponge tackles, how many hits etc. Cullen is along the same lines. A guy who does the job without the credit of others but should not be underrated.

Any lock forward who goes to Leicester and gets to captain the team and lead the pack must be doing something right.

anonymous_joe

PhatPiggins wrote: »

No common sense please.

In all fairness though with Dennis Fogarty at 2 George Hook would tear Munster a new one.

True, neither Fogarty is a great lineout player, but in terms of second-row v second-row he had a great game.

He's also captained Leinster to a HC win. Vaguely impressive. ^^

myflipflops wrote: »

Leo Cullen isn't a world class lock forward. His ball carrying isn't dynamioc enough for that level and maybe a step or 2 form it in a couple of other areas.

He is an excellent rugby player though and it's a tight call between himself and DOC before the injury i guess (I'm a fan of the Munster man too btw). Anybody who witnessed his performance against Quins in the 1/4 final last year wouldn't doubt him. He was immense, standing out in as big a match of attrition as it gets. A lock forward like Cullen (and DOC actually) is a different beast to a Matfield or an O'Connell. They aren't huge ball carriers or big players in the loose. They know their jobs in the tight and do it to a very high level.

DOC famous appetite for viewing statistic on his play backs this up. He doesn't mind doing the hard, unseen work but he wants proof of it himself - how many rucks hit, how many clean clear outs, how many sponge tackles, how many hits etc. Cullen is along the same lines. A guy who does the job without the credit of others but should not be underrated.

Any lock forward who goes to Leicester and gets to captain the team and lead the pack must be doing something right.

Just a minor point, much as I love Paul O'Connell, he is an awful ball-carrier.

myflipflops

anonymous_joe wrote: »

Just a minor point, much as I love Paul O'Connell, he is an awful ball-carrier.

I disagree with 'awful' but agree he could improve. He does carry a HELL of a lot of ball though (too much sometimes) and as such he becomes an influential player in the loose either way.

The average, casual rugby fan will notice him a lot during a game as opposed a Cullen or an O'Callaghan/

thebaz

best of luck to leo - i admire him hugely - unsung hero

profitius

danthefan wrote: »

What you said was:

Profitius wrote:

You were talking about replacements for POC and DOC. Donnacha Ryan is Kidneys third choice for Ireland and I reckon he's as good as DOC.

I said Kidney rates him as the third best lock in the country when he gets more game time. I might be right or wrong, thats my opinion.

PhatPiggins

anonymous_joe wrote: »

True, neither Fogarty is a great lineout player, but in terms of second-row v second-row he had a great game.

He's also captained Leinster to a HC win. Vaguely impressive. ^^


Just a minor point, much as I love Paul O'Connell, he is an awful ball-carrier.

I'd take Forgarty senior anyday at least he can hit 2 and 4 regularly.

O Connell would be a fine ball carrier if he could learn to off load a bit more(though I think he's hampered by Irelands game plan), something Cullen does well

Podge_irl

profitius wrote: »

I said Kidney rates him as the third best lock in the country when he gets more game time. I might be right or wrong, thats my opinion.

Odd then that Kidney regularly had MOD ahead of him at Munster last year.

profitius

Podge_irl wrote: »

Odd then that Kidney regularly had MOD ahead of him at Munster last year.

That was 2 years ago and since he took charge of Ireland he had Ryan ahaead of MOD even when MOD was playing more for Munster.

danthefan

profitius wrote: »

That was 2 years ago and since he took charge of Ireland he had Ryan ahaead of MOD even when MOD was playing more for Munster.

For crying out loud. Where are you getting this stuff from?

Tell us, what lock was on the bench through the 6N last season? I'll give you a clue, it wasn't Ryan.

Madworld

Im really disappointed Kidney has put Ryan on the bench for this one. Ryan has only started six games this season. All those matches have been Magners League with no starts so far in the Heiniken Cup. That is simply not enough game time to warrent a place on the bench for a Six Nations match.

And I dont buy all this c**p that Ryan is one for the future. He is 25 for f***k sake! Thats not young with up and coming potential. Thats maturity in terms of professional rugby. He will not break up the POC and DOC partnership for at least another three years. At that time he ll be 28. Will people still be spouting on that he is up and coming then?

Meanwhile Bob Casey has 18 starts for London Irish this season including all six of their Heiniken Cup matches in which he captained a team that beat the European Champions in their back yard. He is one the best lineout jumpers in the NH and he offers much more of a physical prescence than Ryan due to the fact he is an inch taller and 15kilos heavier than him.

danthefan

Madworld wrote: »

Im really disappointed Kidney has put Ryan on the bench for this one. Ryan has only started six games this season. All those matches have been Magners League with no starts so far in the Heiniken Cup. That is simply not enough game time to warrent a place on the bench for a Six Nations match.

And I dont buy all this c**p that Ryan is one for the future. He is 25 for f***k sake! Thats not young with up and coming potential. Thats maturity in terms of professional rugby. He will not break up the POC and DOC partnership for at least another three years. At that time he ll be 28. Will people still be spouting on that he is up and coming then?

Meanwhile Bob Casey has 18 starts for London Irish this season including all six of their Heiniken Cup matches in which he captained a team that beat the European Champions in their back yard. He is one the best lineout jumpers in the NH and he offers much more of a physical prescence than Ryan due to the fact he is an inch taller and 15kilos heavier than him.

Ryan has in fact NEVER started a HEC game. So far all he's proven is he's a good ML player. This is because of DOC and POC admittedly but it it what it is, he has not yet shown he's a top level player. He's not 25 either, he's 26, older than Jamie Heaslip for some perspective. People are way overrating him imo or looking at the player he might become rather than the player he is.

As far as himself vs Cullen it's just no contest, Cullen is far better.

thomond2006

I want Justice For Bob! :mad:

profitius

danthefan wrote: »

For crying out loud. Where are you getting this stuff from?

Tell us, what lock was on the bench through the 6N last season? I'll give you a clue, it wasn't Ryan.

IF HE IS PLAYING REGULARLY.
IF HE IS PLAYING REGULARLY.
IF HE IS PLAYING REGULARLY.
IF HE IS PLAYING REGULARLY.
IF HE IS PLAYING REGULARLY.

danthefan

There was nothing about playing regularly in your post above. You clearly stated DK has Ryan ahead of MOD. No conditions attatched.

profitius

danthefan wrote: »

There was nothing about playing regularly in your post above. You clearly stated DK has Ryan ahead of MOD. No conditions attatched.

I've said before that Kidney RATES him as the third best lock in the country and he needs to be playing more to be ahead of Cullen.

Podge_irl

profitius wrote: »

That was 2 years ago and since he took charge of Ireland he had Ryan ahaead of MOD even when MOD was playing more for Munster.

Eh, as Dan pointed out, no he didn't. Kidney has never once had Ryan ahead of MOD, at Munster or Ireland. Ryan was on the bench against Argentina as backrow cover. Saturday will be the first time Ryan has been ahead of MOD (and MOD is injured I might add), there is certainly absolutely no indication that Kidney rates Ryan ahead of Cullen and I have no idea where you're getting the idea from.

thehighground

danthefan wrote: »

Ryan has in fact NEVER started a HEC game. So far all he's proven is he's a good ML player. This is because of DOC and POC admittedly but it it what it is, he has not yet shown he's a top level player. He's not 25 either, he's 26, older than Jamie Heaslip for some perspective. People are way overrating him imo or looking at the player he might become rather than the player he is.

As far as himself vs Cullen it's just no contest, Cullen is far better.

Around the same age as McLaughlin I would think!

Ryan had a pretty good game against the All Blacks, or didn't you see that?

danthefan

thehighground wrote: »

Around the same age as McLaughlin I would think!

Ryan had a pretty good game against the All Blacks, or didn't you see that?

What has this got to do with McLaughlin?

I did, and so?

thehighground

danthefan wrote: »

There was nothing about playing regularly in your post above. You clearly stated DK has Ryan ahead of MOD. No conditions attatched.

In Munster, MOD was captain when internationals like POC & ROG were not around. He did a fine job when Munster played the All Blacks.

I'm delighted for Leo - another unsung hero like MOD.