Organising Music

jimmay

Hi peoples,

Got a macbook and only recently started using itunes (or trying to!). Is it just me but I am finding trying to organise my music incredibly difficult. I have music files being saved all over the place and it's all extremely disorganised and I don't know what's being saved where or why. I have searched on Apples help pages but cannot figure out how or why this is happening and how best to prevent this.

I am trying to organise music I have downloaded directly onto my Macbook (from Limewire and other websites - straight to downloads). I am also trying to import my music collection wirelessly from another PC. I have files being saved in Limewire folders, Music folders, download folders, itunes folders, music folders within itunes. It is horrible and I just can't figure out the best way to clean it up.

For example, I have songs from the same album showing up on completely different folders and albums? It is doing my head in! :mad: I am trying to get my macbook up to date with my data from my old laptop and this is really frustrating me and holding me back.

I want to delete my entire itunes library and am considering uninstalling it as it is giving me such a headache. I am also thinking of abandoning it and just using Quicktime instead but I would like to give it a chance.

I'm completely at a loss now and have given up ever being able to sort this out by myself. Perhaps being a PC user all my life is to blame however I really thought Macs weren't supposed to be this difficult . Is there anywhere I can bring this for advice as it maybe easier to explain to someone by showing them firsthand what is happening and what I want!?

Sad Professor

In iTunes preferences > advanced tick "keep itunes music folder organised" and "copy files to itunes folder when adding to library". I thought these were both on by default. It's the best way to keep your music organised. When you add a file it will be copied to the iTunes folder, you can then delete the original.

thecommander

Sad Professor wrote: »

In iTunes preferences > advanced tick "keep itunes music folder organised" and "copy files to itunes folder when adding to library". I thought these were both on by default. It's the best way to keep your music organised. When you add a file it will be copied to the iTunes folder, you can then delete the original.

Do that, then select all your music, right click and hit Consolidate Tracks/ This will then copy those songs already in your library to the new central location. You can delete the originals outside of that folder.

jimmay

Sad Professor wrote: »

In iTunes preferences > advanced tick "keep itunes music folder organised" and "copy files to itunes folder when adding to library". I thought these were both on by default. It's the best way to keep your music organised. When you add a file it will be copied to the iTunes folder, you can then delete the original.

You're right, they are on by default but I'm still having all the aforementioned problems. Should all my music files be within itunes and NOWHERE else? When I play for example one song from an album that is not in itunes and then I later select the rest of the songs they are not stored on the same album within itunes. I have also been unable to move/edit this afterwards?

thecommander wrote: »

Do that, then select all your music, right click and hit Consolidate Tracks/ This will then copy those songs already in your library to the new central location. You can delete the originals outside of that folder.

Where is the central location? For example, where should I place files I have imported from my PC such as a music album with a bunch of songs? In the music folder or in itunes within a music folder. It is a bit hard to explain exactly all the problems I am having in a post.

Has anyone heard or dealt with this company: http://www.macinformation.com/index.php"]Mac Information[/URL] I am thinking of getting some advice from an expert if it's not too expensive.

Ham'nd'egger

Jimmay, you mention music you sourced via Limewire etc. iTunes is not a storage system per say but it relies on it knowing where to point to in order to find the music library it plays from. As a default, the many sub folders and on them being tagged correctly by you in the first instance. If you rip the music from the iStore or from a shop CD it will be labeled correctly. However, the stuff ripped from the file share sites won't essentially be labeled correctly as it should be so iTunes won't know that it's, say Abba and Dancing Queen as there may be a spelling error and it creates a different folder for this file. Chances are you will have a folder called something like Unknown or Unknown artist and a lot of your mislabeled files will be living inside there; it's just a case of retagging them over time and they will find their way home

jimmay

Hamndegger wrote: »

Jimmay, you mention music you sourced via Limewire etc. iTunes is not a storage system per say but it relies on it knowing where to point to in order to find the music library it plays from. As a default, the many sub folders and on them being tagged correctly by you in the first instance. If you rip the music from the iStore or from a shop CD it will be labeled correctly. However, the stuff ripped from the file share sites won't essentially be labeled correctly as it should be so iTunes won't know that it's, say Abba and Dancing Queen as there may be a spelling error and it creates a different folder for this file. Chances are you will have a folder called something like Unknown or Unknown artist and a lot of your mislabeled files will be living inside there; it's just a case of retagging them over time and they will find their way home

Cheers man but it's also including a bunch of CD's bought from shops. For example when I copy a Beatles album into my macbook wirelessly from another laptop and play one song from it, it opens up an album location in itunes. Later if I go to play another or the rest of the songs from that album it opens up another separate location in itunes. The whole thing is a mess and I'm not even using itunes or my ipod because of it.

It's a shame because overall I like the Macbook Pro but it is really making me think twice about getting one again in the future due to how difficult it seems to be to sort this problem out or to find information from someone else.

Sad Professor

How did you manage your music in Windows? What music player did you use? Was your music organised in a library or did you just work directly with the files?

thecommander

When you want to play a certain song are you launching it from a folder or from within iTunes?

If you have the option of iTunes keeping your music organized checked then it's not possible for the music files to keep moving around on you unless you are interfering with it.

jimmay

Sad Professor wrote: »

How did you manage your music in Windows? What music player did you use? Was your music organised in a library or did you just work directly with the files?

I worked directly with the files, i.e. (windows explorer) and had windows media player launch upon default.

thecommander wrote: »

When you want to play a certain song are you launching it from a folder or from within iTunes?

This is what I'm wondering...where should I be launching songs from? I'm really confused at this stage as I seem to have tried all the different combinations of places to save however it's not working and in addition then I can't undo some of my previous errors i.e. moving other songs.

thecommander

You use iTunes to play your music, not the icons in finder. This is where you are going wrong.

mazthespark

iv lately found online scripts that you install onto itunes. found one that will remove all the tracks which wont play or itunes cant find. another that looks for misnamed tracks missing artwork etc. also if u have an ipod with all your collection on it and organised your best bet mite be to download senuti (should be free)it will download all your songs from ipod to itunes. itunes wont let you do it afaik.

Sad Professor

Yeah OP you just need to get used to working with iTunes. The reason some songs are showing up in different albums is because they aren't tagged correctly. You'll need to fix this within iTunes. Becuse a lot of your songs come from limewire etc this might prove quite a task. It is definitely not a problem with iTunes or your mac.

thecommander

Sad Professor wrote: »

Yeah OP you just need to get used to working with iTunes. The reason some songs are showing up in different albums is because they aren't tagged correctly. You'll need to fix this within iTunes. Becuse a lot of your songs come from limewire etc this might prove quite a task. It is definitely not a problem with iTunes or your mac.

My iTunes directory structure is all over the place (Unknown artist etc) but it doesnt really matter to be honest as iTunes keeps them all organised. Not sure why you need it all to be neat and tidy behind the scenes unless you are trying to access from another program.

jimmay

thecommander wrote: »

You use iTunes to play your music, not the icons in finder. This is where you are going wrong.

Ok and that's what I was asking and I would like to be able to do that however I can't really use my itunes now when songs from the same source ( a cd album) are located in different locations within itunes?

Sad Professor wrote: »

Yeah OP you just need to get used to working with iTunes. The reason some songs are showing up in different albums is because they aren't tagged correctly. You'll need to fix this within iTunes. Becuse a lot of your songs come from limewire etc this might prove quite a task. It is definitely not a problem with iTunes or your mac.

Ok forgetting my downloads and limewire for a minute the problem remains from music ripped directly from cds that I am attempting to import from a different laptop. I am sure there is a solution to it and possibly it's quite simple but at the moment I just don't know how or understand what it could be and it's WRECKING my head! Trying to explain this through a online forum is a challenge in itself never-mind getting a solution!

thecommander wrote: »

My iTunes directory structure is all over the place (Unknown artist etc) but it doesnt really matter to be honest as iTunes keeps them all organised. Not sure why you need it all to be neat and tidy behind the scenes unless you are trying to access from another program.

My itunes is not organised! I just wasn't sure before about where I should be launching my music from and at least I have learned it is itunes. So any albums I transfer wirelessly now should just be stuck straight into itunes and then I don't worry about where it is saved after?

fuelinjection

I agree with you.
Apple and iTunes are just a pain in the ass.

You can get used to the way they work though, take a bit of practice, the songs have band names and album titles in them, and you may have to edit them one at a time. Takes a while but once you do it , they show up on iTunes. I delete them one album at a time, edit the album name and song names and then add them using iTunes. This makes them show up like you want to see.

If the music is not apple format then the songs are changed into the apple format and stored in the computer's apple directory.

Sad Professor

thecommander wrote: »

My iTunes directory structure is all over the place (Unknown artist etc) but it doesnt really matter to be honest as iTunes keeps them all organised. Not sure why you need it all to be neat and tidy behind the scenes unless you are trying to access from another program.

Yeah I couldn't care less about how the files are organised. I assume iTunes is organising them based on my tags. But tbh I can't remember the last time I looked inside my music folder so god knows what it looks like in there.

However I'm incredibly anal about ID3 tags. They must be perfect and contain all the right information. Having to go through them and correct them is torture though.

jimmay wrote:

Ok forgetting my downloads and limewire for a minute the problem remains from music ripped directly from cds that I am attempting to import from a different laptop. I am sure there is a solution to it and possibly it's quite simple but at the moment I just don't know how or understand what it could be and it's WRECKING my head! Trying to explain this through a online forum is a challenge in itself never-mind getting a solution!

Is the ID3 tag information on them correct? i.e. album, year, artist, etc. Right-click, Get Info on the files in questions in iTunes to find out.

When you say different locations, could you maybe upload a screenshot of what you mean? (To do a screenshot, press command-shift-4 and select the area you want captured. The image will be saved to the desktop.)

Btw/
Why do Windows users hate iTunes so much? I can never understand what the problem is. Does everyone in Windows just deal directly with the files? Does Winamp not have a library browser?

thecommander

If your find that an album is split up within iTunes then sort the view by album. They all fall into place that way.

jimmay

Ok so when I copy a music album (folder) from laptop x and paste it wirelessly should I paste it into my 'music within itunes within music' folder? :rolleyes: As shown by screenshot.

If I do I dont understand why the music does not appear within my itunes program automatically? Is there a setting that I can change this. I either have to select all the songs from finder and play them in order for them to appear in itunes or else I have to go to manually 'add to library' from within itunes and then select the folder from a popup finder window!?

Stainless_Steel

jimmay wrote: »

If I do I dont understand why the music does not appear within my itunes program automatically? Is there a setting that I can change this. I either have to select all the songs from finder and play them in order for them to appear in itunes or else I have to go to manually 'add to library' from within itunes and then select the folder from a popup finder window!?

How would iTunes know you added it to your music folder? It would have to check and compile the library on startup which would be annoying waiting no? And the what if you copied the files in when iTunes was open? You'd have to click an update library button no? So the solution is to add to library when adding files, and iTunes will copy them files to it's folder for you. Look up how iTunes libraries work and you'll understand that they do it the best way by getting you to add to library.

jimmay

Stainless_Steel wrote: »

How would iTunes know you added it to your music folder? It would have to check and compile the library on startup which would be annoying waiting no? And the what if you copied the files in when iTunes was open? You'd have to click an update library button no? So the solution is to add to library when adding files, and iTunes will copy them files to it's folder for you. Look up how iTunes libraries work and you'll understand that they do it the best way by getting you to add to library.

Sorry I have no idea what you are trying to say.

I'm trying to get my music into itunes from another laptop.
Do I need to copy it into finder and then again into itunes? Can I not place it directly into itunes?

Stainless_Steel

jimmay wrote: »

Sorry I have no idea what you are trying to say.

I'm trying to get my music into itunes from another laptop.
Do I need to copy it into finder and then again into itunes? Can I not place it directly into itunes?

This is what I would do:

1) Put all the music on an external drive, cd etc. in a folder
2) Plug that drive into the computer where you have iTunes - dont copy anything!
3) In iTunes, make sure you have the boxes 'keep folder organised' and 'copy to itunes folder' checked.
4) Use the add to library option and choose the folder on the external drive
5) After it does that, you will have all the music stored in your itunes folder and it will be listed in your library!
6) Delete the files from the external drive if you want then

Doing this for all imports to library ensures you have a copy of every song in your itunes folder. You can delete other source copies if you want or keep as a back up.

I also suggest googling for info on how itunes libraries actually work, it will make the whole process i said above clearer....

Hope this helps.

thecommander

If you want to add a song to iTunes, drag and drop it into the iTunes window.

If you have the "let iTunes manage your music" option turned on, then iTunes will manage your music. No need for you to be messing around in the iTunes folders.

jimmay

If I use the 'add to library' selection within itunes I can select music from anywhere be it on my macbook pro or on another laptop. I can select open and this music will be saved within the library and also within my itunes music folder on finder. This way of adding music stops me having to copy it into finder and again onto itunes.

Another question, can I set up an album within itunes and lets call it for example 'dance music' (over 700 songs) as opposed to having hundreds of album covers of dance mixed in with my main library. I don't mean a dance playlist which I understand I can organise the songs into but a seperate folder/album where I can keep all these 'dance'songs together?

maccored

in prefs, under advanced (i think) there should be a setting to copy all files to your itunes folder. If thats click then anything you put into itunes goes into the itunes music folder, categorised by the artist/album tags.

If you unclick that settng then you can organise your own music files first, then copy them into itunes. If you move the files from the original position, itunes wont find them.

thecommander

jimmay wrote: »

Another question, can I set up an album within itunes and lets call it for example 'dance music' (over 700 songs) as opposed to having hundreds of album covers of dance mixed in with my main library. I don't mean a dance playlist which I understand I can organise the songs into but a seperate folder/album where I can keep all these 'dance'songs together?

You can do that if you wish, or you could label them by genre.

jimmay

thecommander wrote: »

You can do that if you wish, or you could label them by genre.

I'm asking how can I do this? Itunes does not allow a folder to be added to my music within library. Also as I have my classical music labeled appropriately it is the Classical playlist but also in the main library. I would like to be able to click on main library and then select dance folder, classical, etc.

jimmay

Still trying to organise my music what a joke!
Anyway, does anyone have any experience with the sorting tab when you click get info on music in itunes (as shown in attatched screenshot).

I am hoping to place big chunks of my music in different folders however I would like to keep the original album filename. I had expected to be able to do this by entering a seperate name in the sort album option but it is not working? Does anyone know what is the difference between the album and sort album options?

thecommander

Just use playlists. There's no folders inside iTunes.

Simon201

jimmay wrote: »

Ok so when I copy a music album (folder) from laptop x and paste it wirelessly should I paste it into my 'music within itunes within music' folder?

no no no! there's no need for you to go near or be concerned about the way the files are organised in the actual iTunes Music folder in the finder. Just follow them 6 points of instructions from Stainless Steel and you cant go wrong. And as he and others have said make sure you have 'keep folder organised' and 'copy to itunes folder' checked in the prefs.
You dont really have to use the 'add to library' command either, you can just drag a folder of mp3's or whatever over the iTunes window from a connected drive or networked Mac or PC and if it turns to a green circle with a 'plus' sign in it you're good to go.
To reiterate what some others have said, yes the songs (files) should show up the proper tag information if they were originally imported correctly, but if they are not the best way then, is to choose the 'date added' column in iTunes, select all of the tracks you've just imported, then 'cmd + i' which brings up the multiple item info box. Then just fill in the information in the boxes which is missing or incorrect.

Sad Professor

thecommander wrote: »

Just use playlists. There's no folders inside iTunes.

There are playlist folders though.

OP, you should have a look at Apple's iTunes tutorials here.

You should also make use of iTunes built-in help guide which is accessible from the Help menu.

fuelinjection

Sad Professor wrote: »

There are playlist folders though.
You should also make use of iTunes built-in help guide which is accessible from the Help menu.

Good advice.

But what I do to keep life simple is edit all my songs so that they all have album name, and band name.
Then delete the old ones from the iPod and add the new songs you just changed.

Then update the music and artwork for the songs and it will show up correctly on the iPod. Once you get used to it, it is easy.

jimmay

Sad Professor wrote: »

There are playlist folders though.

OP, you should have a look at Apple's iTunes tutorials here.

You should also make use of iTunes built-in help guide which is accessible from the Help menu.

I wouldn't be posting here if I could find any solutions in itunes help or tutorials.

I was hoping to be able to find a way to clean up my music section within itunes but apparently it's not possible from what I can see and from the advice people are giving me.

I think I'm close to having to give up on itunes. I've spent so much time on it now at this stage I'm getting fed up with it!

thecommander wrote: »

Just use playlists. There's no folders inside iTunes.

If you've read my previous posts you'll see that I'm aware I can use playlists but I don't want to use seperate playlists. Even if I do place chunks of music into single playlists (which I don't want to) I still have the same problem with the main music section! I'm trying to clean up my main music library! I have hundreds of albums floating around with only one or two songs in them and I want to place them into a single album/folder. This has to be possible other than changing the album name and losing all the original album listing info?

The reason I'm spending time on it is because I think there has to be a solution I just can't figure out what it is!

Again does anyone know what the difference is between the album and sort album options?

fuelinjection

jimmay wrote: »

I think I'm close to having to give up on itunes. I've spent so much time on it now at this stage I'm getting fed up with it!

Sounds like you and iTunes don't mix well.

Try a search for "Sharepod" download it and just use the iPod as an external hard-drive. It is good if you have to change computers with your iPod too.

thecommander

jimmay wrote: »

The reason I'm spending time on it is because I think there has to be a solution I just can't figure out what it is!

Again does anyone know what the difference is between the album and sort album options?

Not sure what or why you're trying to do.

You want to group by a custom album but don't want it changing your album name. You want to group like a playlist, but not use playlist.

What do you want your end goal to be? What view do you sort your tunes with?

Why don't you create an Album called "Random Singles - Dance" and tag all you dance singles with that. Another called "Random Singles - Rock" etc. That way when you sort your view by album they'll fall in line.

Sad Professor

I've never used the "sort album" tag, but google brought up this:

The Sort Artist, Sort Album & Sort Album Artist fields can be used to override the normal sort order. For example iTunes automatically drops leading articles (a/an/the) so "The Beatles" are arranged under "B" instead of "T". Occasionally different tracks from the same album can have different values in these sort fields which can also break up the grouping. Making the sort columns visible in iTunes can help with spotting & correcting such problems.

From:http://samsoft.org.uk/iTunes/grouping.asp


Look, jimmay, we're trying our best to help you. You've obviously never used a music library before and you have a big mess of disorganised mp3 files. I don't really know what you're trying to do either. And I don't know why I care when I'm getting responses like your last one.

jimmay

Sad Professor wrote: »

I've never used the "sort album" tag, but google brought up this:

From:http://samsoft.org.uk/iTunes/grouping.asp

Look, jimmay, we're trying our best to help you. You've obviously never used a music library before and you have a big mess of disorganised mp3 files. I don't really know what you're trying to do either. And I don't know why I care when I'm getting responses like your last one.

Thanks Sad P, I do appreciate your help and apologies if I seemed abrupt in my last post. It's just frustrating when I can't get itunes the way I want and trying to articulate my desire has also been proving difficult. Thanks for yours and the commanders patience.

thecommander wrote: »

Not sure what or why you're trying to do.

You want to group by a custom album but don't want it changing your album name.

For example I was hoping to keep the album name of these random songs incase in the future I wanted to know which album it was from eg. a song 'Angels' by Diddy from album 'last train to paris. If I tag the album I will lose this info but it looks like this may have to be sacrificed to organise them neater.

thecommander wrote: »

to group like a playlist, but not use playlist.

Yes it may sound funny but like I dont want seperate playlists for let's say 'Old Rap', ' 90's Dance', 'Off Beat' etc. as I'd like to listen to some of these songs together hence resulting in another playlist!

thecommander wrote: »

What do you want your end goal to be? What view do you sort your tunes with?

Essentially I would be using the main music tab in itunes using the grid view. I would like to group all these random songs and music albums together to make them more useable. I currently have hundreds of albums with one or two songs. I also have hundreds more waiting to be imported (which I'm not doing untill I get this sorted out :P)

thecommander wrote: »

Why don't you create an Album called "Random Singles - Dance" and tag all you dance singles with that. Another called "Random Singles - Rock" etc. That way when you sort your view by album they'll fall in line.

Thanks I think I may have to do this. It's quite a tricky subject to explain exactly what I'm after and how I would like itunes to perform. I hope I've somewhat made that clearer but I won't hold my breath :P.