Whose injury would be the biggest blow for Ireland?

thomond2006

Same idea as the thread last year.

Who is the player Ireland cannot afford to lose for/during the Six Nations?

danthefan

Tommy Bowe

BOD, by a mile.

PhatPiggins

Declan Kidney without any any shadow of a doubt

Kenteach

Jonny Sexton

Its obvious that BOD is the player our hopes revolve around and his absence would be catastrophic. Thats why I voted for Heaslip!! Heaslip is the only other player in our team that is practically irreplacable.

Sofa King Great

Talking about the prospect of players being injured is terrible. As such i'm voting other

Risteard

Tommy Bowe

Kenteach wrote: »

Its obvious that BOD is the player our hopes revolve around and his absence would be catastrophic. Thats why I voted for Heaslip!! Heaslip is the only other player in our team that is practically irreplacable.

Chris Henry is going well IMO. A similar type of player to Heaslip but maybe not quite at his level yet. Plus we could play Wallace there, though I think his control at the back of the scrum wouldn't be as good as a regular number 8.

Reloc8

Jonny Sexton

I voted for Heaslip, kind of 'without O'Driscoll' so to speak.

shanagarry

Paul O'Connell

I hummed and hawed between Hayes and BOD but went for Hayes eventually. I think BOD would be by far the bigger loss for the team in terms of drop in quality, but the options to replace him are better. Hayes hasn't been going well, but if he gets injured we get Buckley by the looks of it...

Kenteach

Jonny Sexton

Risteard wrote: »

Chris Henry is going well IMO. A similar type of player to Heaslip but maybe not quite at his level yet. Plus we could play Wallace there, though I think his control at the back of the scrum wouldn't be as good as a regular number 8.

There are players who could justifiably pull on the No. 8 jersey, no doubt, just as there are players who could comfortably wear 13. We don't, however, have anyone who could completely fill the void if BOD or Heaslip were not there.
As regards Hayes, last year I'd possibly agree. Unfortunately, time seems to finally have caught up with the great man.

ozt9vdujny3srf

Tommy Bowe

Kenteach wrote: »

As regards Hayes, last year I'd possibly agree. Unfortunately, time seems to finally have caught up with the great man.

Agreed. the gap between him and the other TH's available isn't that big, and it's not that the other TH's have been getting better .


Voted BOD, we have good depth in every area of the pitch, but BOD is irreplaceable (as good as Bowe is at OC).

bleg

DOC

Judgement Day

Tommy Bowe

BOD by a country mile - but did I hear on the news this evening that he is carrying some slight injury along with DOC? :eek:

Aidric

Lord God almighty,obvious answer is obvious.

dreamer_ire

Paul O'Connell

It seems obvious... BOD is far and away our best player however we do have cover for him. Granted not to the same standard but Bowe would be more than capable of moving into 13 and while we would drop in quality it wouldn't leave us below par in the centre. Losing Hayes however... we'll I think there is a general consesus here about what Mushy's participation should be!

Riskymove

Tommy Bowe

it has to be BOD

its not even that we dont have any other centres, we do but BOD can single handedly have an immense impact

people may forget how close the games were last year and how many were turned by great BOD plays that, frankly, no-one else on the pitch could do

Podge_irl

Tommy Bowe

BOD is so far better than any other player, never mind any other centre, that Ireland have available it's not funny. Having to replace Hayes with any of Courty, Buckley or Ross would not have a massive impact on the team.

CowboyTed

Paul O'Connell

Podge_irl wrote: »

BOD is so far better than any other player, never mind any other centre, that Ireland have available it's not funny. Having to replace Hayes with any of Courty, Buckley or Ross would not have a massive impact on the team.

I said Hayes due to the quality of the replacements... BOD is our best player but we have cover for the position mostly... POC could involve a call to Casey... Seems we have good cover everywhere else...

Podge_irl

Tommy Bowe

CowboyTed wrote: »

I said Hayes due to the quality of the replacements... BOD is our best player but we have cover for the position mostly... POC could involve a call to Casey... Seems we have good cover everywhere else...

The drop in quality from Hayes to Ross/Court is minimal. Hayes is not a great tighthead prop to begin with. The TH position is a weakness for Ireland, its just a question of how weak depending on who plays. No matter who you replace BOD with the drop in class would be massive and would have a huge impact on the team's defensive prowess.

The_Kew_Tour

BOD

Next to that I go Heaslip

Pride Fighter

Tommy Bowe

bleg wrote: »

DOC

Donnacha O'Callaghan would not be that big a loss IMO.

Risteard

Tommy Bowe

Podge_irl wrote: »

BOD is so far better than any other player, never mind any other centre, that Ireland have available it's not funny. Having to replace Hayes with any of Courty, Buckley or Ross would not have a massive impact on the team.

Yes, it would.

Court is going well for Ulster but that's at loosehead. I know he can cover TH but I haven't seen him play there a whole lot. Ross could be a good replacement but he's not playing regularly, though at least he can hold his own in the scrum so I would be inclined to find space for him on the bench somewhere.

toomevara

One D. Kidney..by a country mile. Far and away the canniest national manager/coach in the game. If wee Deccie K fell off a cliff tomorrow we'd be in big, big trouble regardless of how many BODs, DOCs and POCs we've got....

buck65

Stephen Ferris

Steve Borthwick.

twinytwo

Tommy Bowe

toomevara wrote: »

One D. Kidney..by a country mile. Far and away the canniest national manager/coach in the game. If wee Deccie K fell off a cliff tomorrow we'd be in big, big trouble regardless of how many BODs, DOCs and POCs we've got....

to be fair if we had 15 drico's we would have the wc in the bag

toomevara

twinytwo wrote: »

to be fair if we had 15 drico's we would have the wc in the bag

I've suggested a 'Moon' style cloning scheme on a number of occasions. Inexplicably, no one seems interested...Of course it would also be excellent news for the manufacturers of upmarket hair product to boot...

Crash

Tommy Bowe

Thanks for the "Moon" Spoiler Toom, was planning on watching that this week.

toomevara

Crash wrote: »

Thanks for the "Moon" Spoiler Toom, was planning on watching that this week.

:eek: Geez crash, sorry mate....TBH, its not exactly a spoiler, not really that kind of film....

Podge_irl

Tommy Bowe

Risteard wrote: »

Yes, it would.

Court is going well for Ulster but that's at loosehead. I know he can cover TH but I haven't seen him play there a whole lot. Ross could be a good replacement but he's not playing regularly, though at least he can hold his own in the scrum so I would be inclined to find space for him on the bench somewhere.

Buckley is crap, but Hayes is not much better in the scrum these days. Such a (currently) poor player can't be irreplaceable in the team.

BoarHunter

Tommy Bowe

BOD and there is no question about it. Without BOD : no victory against wales and England last 6 N. And nobody else could score the tries he touched down, even the front row wasn't getting over the line !! He missed badly against france in 2007. The side is simply not the same without him.

Hyperbullet

Backs- BOD
Forwards- O Connell

Jay P

Stephen Ferris

BoD definitely. Not just for his scoring ability. He has the special ability to make breaks out of nowhere, and he's just a presence on the pitch. He's the captain for a reason.

Eoin

Hyperbullet wrote: »

Backs- BOD
Forwards- O Connell

I don't mean to take away from O'Connell, but I think we have some quality second rows who could fill in if needs be. I would be more concerned about Hayes not being available.

stephen_n

Paul O'Connell

I find it strange that people say BOD, yes he is by far the best player on the team and an inspirational leader on the pitch but we have replacements who could step in and do a, at the very least adequate job in covering for him.

If we loose Hayes however we are in big trouble, even with his current dip in form he is still a country mile ahead of anyone else in the country in that position and would leave a huge gap in our pack!

toomevara

stephen_n wrote: »

If we loose Hayes however we are in big trouble, even with his current dip in form he is still a country mile ahead of anyone else in the country in that position and would leave a huge gap in our pack!

According to everyones fave journo around these parts, Stephen Jones, in the times on Sunday, Ireland have 'no scrum' this 6n, even with Hayes!

PhatPiggins

stephen_n wrote: »

I find it strange that people say BOD, yes he is by far the best player on the team and an inspirational leader on the pitch but we have replacements who could step in and do a, at the very least adequate job in covering for him.

If we loose Hayes however we are in big trouble, even with his current dip in form he is still a country mile ahead of anyone else in the country in that position and would leave a huge gap in our pack!

I dont like the OTT BOD worshipping on here but he pretty much won 3 of the 5 games last season single handed.

I do agree that we have some reasonable cover for him though.

Riskymove

Tommy Bowe

stephen_n wrote: »

I find it strange that people say BOD, yes he is by far the best player on the team and an inspirational leader on the pitch but we have replacements who could step in and do a, at the very least adequate job in covering for him.

I disagree

as i said above, there are other centres who coudl come in and do a job as centre...but noone who could do the sort of things he did for us last year

think the tries against wales and england

I have no doubt that we would not have won the slam without him

PhatPiggins

toomevara wrote: »

According to everyones fave journo around these parts, Stephen Jones, in the times on Sunday, Ireland have 'no scrum' this 6n, even with Hayes!

He also thinks Sheridan is world class and Shaw is the greatest lock to ever play the game.

The guy is running out of tabloid sensationalism to spout.

Podge_irl

Tommy Bowe

stephen_n wrote: »

If we loose Hayes however we are in big trouble, even with his current dip in form he is still a country mile ahead of anyone else in the country in that position and would leave a huge gap in our pack!

I have absolutely no idea how anyone thinks that. He is a poor scrummager and lacks mobility around the pitch and is seriously starting to show his age. THP is a weakness in the team with or without Hayes there - replacing him with Ross for example would actually shore up the scrum.

O'Driscoll is far, far more important to the team than Hayes. The anchors the entire backline defence and is the team's most potent attacking weapon. He draws defenders into him leaving space for others. Bowe would be a decent replacement, but it would mean we'd have a good centre as opposed to a phenomenal one. The drop from BOD to Bowe/D'Arcy/Earls is orders of magnitude more than the drop from Hayes to Ross/Court.

Podge_irl

Tommy Bowe

toomevara wrote: »

According to everyones fave journo around these parts, Stephen Jones, in the times on Sunday, Ireland have 'no scrum' this 6n, even with Hayes!

His logic being that Munster were pushed around by Northampton because he thinks the Munster scrum and the Ireland scrum are the same thing. Jones is an idiot, but he's not entirely wrong. Ireland's scrum is weak and Hayes is a poor THP - which is understandable given his age and the amount of games he plays - and Healy is a very inexperienced LHP.

toomevara

Podge_irl wrote: »

Ireland's scrum is weak

Yep, as usual Jones has managed to effortlessly overstate his case with his usual hyperbolic nonsense, but there's an element of truth in it. In this respect its the French who worry me most. The italians may shove us about a bit I cant see much/any creativity beyond that pack, but the French in Paris, now thats a whole different kettle of fish...

Podge_irl

Tommy Bowe

toomevara wrote: »

Yep, as usual Jones has managed to effortlessly overstate his case with his usual hyperbolic nonsense, but there's an element of truth in it. In this respect its the French who worry me most. The italians may shove us about a bit I cant see much/any creativity beyond that pack, but the French in Paris, now thats a whole different kettle of fish...

It wouldn't be the worst idea in the world to start Court against France instead of Healy imo.

thehighground

Paul O'Connell

Podge_irl wrote: »

His logic being that Munster were pushed around by Northampton because he thinks the Munster scrum and the Ireland scrum are the same thing. Jones is an idiot, but he's not entirely wrong. Ireland's scrum is weak and Hayes is a poor THP - which is understandable given his age and the amount of games he plays - and Healy is a very inexperienced LHP.

Jones also tipped Ireland to win the Championship despite our terrible scrum. Guscott, McGeechan and Barnes have also tipped Ireland to win it. Strangely enough, the only pundit (Dallaglio) who claimed the scrum was not that important in international rugby as it is in club, tipped France to win it.

stephen_n

Paul O'Connell

Podge_irl wrote: »

I have absolutely no idea how anyone thinks that. He is a poor scrummager and lacks mobility around the pitch and is seriously starting to show his age. THP is a weakness in the team with or without Hayes there - replacing him with Ross for example would actually shore up the scrum.

O'Driscoll is far, far more important to the team than Hayes. The anchors the entire backline defence and is the team's most potent attacking weapon. He draws defenders into him leaving space for others. Bowe would be a decent replacement, but it would mean we'd have a good centre as opposed to a phenomenal one. The drop from BOD to Bowe/D'Arcy/Earls is orders of magnitude more than the drop from Hayes to Ross/Court.

Ross may be able to scrum but would you sacrifice Hayes ability in the line out? and even a declining Hayes both defensively and offensively is far far superior to Ross around the field, we have plenty of ball carriers but Hayes defense was a major part of our 6N win last year!

Podge_irl wrote: »

It wouldn't be the worst idea in the world to start Court against France instead of Healy imo.

Rugby players need to be able to handle the ball, something Court can't do, he is useless in any area except the scrum!

Podge_irl

Tommy Bowe

stephen_n wrote: »

Rugby players need to be able to handle the ball, something Court can't do, he is useless in any area except the scrum!

Have you ever seen Hayes with the ball in hand? Besides, Court is reasonably dynamic around the pitch. He's no Healy I'll grant you, but he's come a long way from when he first played for Ulster.

Ross may be able to scrum but would you sacrifice Hayes ability in the line out? and even a declining Hayes both defensively and offensively is far far superior to Ross around the field, we have plenty of ball carriers but Hayes defense was a major part of our 6N win last year!

I might have agreed with you a year or two ago, but I can't now. Hayes is not superior to anyone around the field. For starters, he's non-existent offensively. His defensive work is also suffering from the pummelling he's getting in the scrums. He looks far more tired on the pitch because of it.

It's ridiculous to gloss over Ross' ability to scrum - he's a prop after all! Hayes' work in the line-out is impressive but its not as if no other prop is able to lift. Hayes has been a fantastic servant to Irish rugby, and I have a lot of respect for the guy, but playing-wise he's a liability for Ireland at the moment. His deficiencies in the scrum were often over-emphasised in the past - he was rarely beasted and the Irish scrum tended to hold its own. Those days are gone though. He's poor in the scrum and suffering in the loose. He needs to be replaced badly at both Munster and Ireland.

Ciaran-Irl

Jonny Sexton

Agree with Podge about Hayes. I wouldn't even start Hayes, let alone see an injury as a loss to the team.

I went for Heaslip actually. I think he up there with POC and BOD in terms of importance to the team now, and Leinster & Ireland are incredibly lucky that he is not injury prone. (Touch wood)

twinytwo

Tommy Bowe

According to the examiner the player we cant do without is Kearney:pac:

stephen_n

Paul O'Connell

Podge_irl wrote: »

Have you ever seen Hayes with the ball in hand? Besides, Court is reasonably dynamic around the pitch. He's no Healy I'll grant you, but he's come a long way from when he first played for Ulster.




I might have agreed with you a year or two ago, but I can't now. Hayes is not superior to anyone around the field. For starters, he's non-existent offensively. His defensive work is also suffering from the pummelling he's getting in the scrums. He looks far more tired on the pitch because of it.

It's ridiculous to gloss over Ross' ability to scrum - he's a prop after all! Hayes' work in the line-out is impressive but its not as if no other prop is able to lift. Hayes has been a fantastic servant to Irish rugby, and I have a lot of respect for the guy, but playing-wise he's a liability for Ireland at the moment. His deficiencies in the scrum were often over-emphasised in the past - he was rarely beasted and the Irish scrum tended to hold its own. Those days are gone though. He's poor in the scrum and suffering in the loose. He needs to be replaced badly at both Munster and Ireland.

Court reminds me of an old fashioned forward with ball in hands find someone to run at and hit them as hard as you can hoping the ball comes back in the ruck. I couldn't agree more that we need a replacement for Hayes and have done for a number of years but I just don't think that Court or Ross are it. Thus why I think it is the hardest position in the team to replace and the injury that would make the most difference!

Ciaran-Irl wrote: »

Agree with Podge about Hayes. I wouldn't even start Hayes, let alone see an injury as a loss to the team.

I went for Heaslip actually. I think he up there with POC and BOD in terms of importance to the team now, and Leinster & Ireland are incredibly lucky that he is not injury prone. (Touch wood)

Despite the fact that we have plenty of back row cover and Wallace could easily cover the 8 position with very little loss to the team as a whole. Whatever about BOD I really can't get my head around that one at all!

twinytwo

Tommy Bowe

stephen_n wrote: »

Court reminds me of an old fashioned forward with ball in hands find someone to run at and hit them as hard as you can hoping the ball comes back in the ruck. I couldn't agree more that we need a replacement for Hayes and have done for a number of years but I just don't think that Court or Ross are it. Thus why I think it is the hardest position in the team to replace and the injury that would make the most difference!



Despite the fact that we have plenty of back row cover and Wallace could easily cover the 8 position with very little loss to the team as a whole. Whatever about BOD I really can't get my head around that one at all!

Hayes? Injured?... hell will freeze over first:pac:

Podge_irl

Tommy Bowe

stephen_n wrote: »

Court reminds me of an old fashioned forward with ball in hands find someone to run at and hit them as hard as you can hoping the ball comes back in the ruck. I couldn't agree more that we need a replacement for Hayes and have done for a number of years but I just don't think that Court or Ross are it. Thus why I think it is the hardest position in the team to replace and the injury that would make the most difference!

I refuse to believe that replacing one sub-standard prop with another would be the replacement that would make the most difference to the team. The drop off from BOD to any other centre would be akin to losing Hayes and not replacing him with anyone (actually, it would be more), never mind replacing him with a better scrummager but someone slightly worse around the field.

GisforGrenade

No one is irreplaceable, there will be life after BOD. Also with the pressure for places and the talent coming up at all levels in all the provinces, an injury could be seen as an opportunity to discover another talent.

davyjose

Tommy Bowe

We'd have had a Grand Slam in '07 if BOd had played against France