i am looking for honest views on this

bigyinsack

hello everyone, im new

i dont mean to troll, or anger anyone, but i have just watched this movie Zeitgiest, and im wondering how christians feel about it? its had quite a big impact on me, i feel a little numb after watching it

an awful lot of this is information that i had no idea about, but upon doing even a tiny bit of research a lot of it is backed up by scripture

has anyone else seen this?

iUseVi

I'd take it with a pinch of salt tbh, it exaggerates left right and center, especially in the bit comparing other religious figures to Jesus. Whilst there are some similarities the correlations are weak at best. I found it dishonest.

PDN

Tbh it's unhistorical claptrap.

Fanny Cradock

If you do a search on this forum under the names Zeitgeist, Horus and Mithra you will see a number of threads that discuss the film and it's wider claims.

While it's slickly edited and narrated, it is packed full of half-truths and outright lies. It's brazen intellectual dishonesty. The sad this is that while some people accuse Christians of lacking the ability to critically analyse a given subject, they then swallow this rubbish hook, line and sinker. If you are shaken then look to the claims yourself!

http://conspiracyscience.com/articles/zeitgeist/

Sanjuro

PDN wrote: »

Tbh it's unhistorical claptrap.

While I'm no fan of Zeitgeist, and find a lot of it spurious, the very same thing could be said about Christianity and indeed, all religions.

PDN

Sanjuro wrote: »

While I'm no fan of Zeitgeist, and find a lot of it spurious, the very same thing could be said about Christianity and indeed, all religions.

Anything 'can be said'. But my study of history would indicate otherwise.

Sanjuro

And was patronization part of your studies?
Don't know why I expected any better from the Christianity board. So long.

Turtwig

Dishonest *Profane words that may contravene charter*.:)
Ignore and Avoid!

Gary L

Zeitgeist is a shock and awe kind of movie. I loved it at first but it at the end of the day it is very very one sided and willingly deceitful. If your having doubts, check out prof. Richard Dawkins for some calm analysis.

Pompey Magnus

I watched it ages ago and from what I recall it could have been made into an interesting piece as I do think certain stories of the life of Jesus bear too many similarities to pagan myths to be just a coincidence, but the makers of Zeitgeist ruined any credible argument with their decision to add too much nonsense. It is almost like the tabloid version of history.

Fanny Cradock

Sanjuro wrote: »

And was patronization part of your studies?
Don't know why I expected any better from the Christianity board. So long.

There is no point in getting offended when somebody calls you up on your needlessly hostile post. This thread is about about Zeitgeist: The Movie. It does not exist so you can have a pop at Christianity.

Pompey Magnus

PDN wrote: »

Anything 'can be said'. But my study of history would indicate otherwise.

Presumably you are closer to agreement with Sanjuro than appears in this post? I assume your study of history has lead you to the conclusion that 99.999...% of religions through history are spurious, Sanjuro just goes one further than you.

Ghost Buster

Charco wrote: »

Presumably you are closer to agreement with Sanjuro than appears in this post? I assume your study of history has lead you to the conclusion that 99.999...% of religions through history are spurious, Sanjuro just goes one further than you.

Well. To quote Mr Churchill. "History is written by the victors"
At the risk of falling into the same conspiracy theory/ 'Theyre all agin us' category that creationists like to be in with modren scientists, only from a historical angle, I wonder just how much basis may be behind some of the claims made in Zeitgeist.
I dont know either way but it would not be a particularly wild speculation to wonder just how much the details of ancient religions may have been edited or suppressed over the centuries by an all powerful church.
Much of what is claimed in Zeitgeist is wildly exagerated but some of it equally has a grain of truth.

PDN

Charco wrote: »

Presumably you are closer to agreement with Sanjuro than appears in this post? I assume your study of history has lead you to the conclusion that 99.999...% of religions through history are spurious, Sanjuro just goes one further than you.

What my study of history, particularly as it pertains to religions, demonstrates is that religions make two types of claims, some of them rooted in history and some of them impossible to verify because they deal with spiritual claims.

Some religions make no historical claims whatsoever. Therefore they have to be assessed on other grounds.

Many religions are rooted in real historical events. While we may see their spiritual beliefs as spurious or not, we can assess how accurate those historical claims are. And, quite often, those historical claims have a reasonable foundation (I've just finished reading William Dalrymple's "City of Djinns" where he refers to evidence for some of the historical events that are significant to Hinduism and Sufi forms of Islam).

Few religions appear to have deliberately falsified or misrepresented historical information in the way that Zeitgeist does - although Mormonism and Scientology come to mind.

cickybab

What is said in the movie is fact and truth.

If you go to the zeitgiest movie website, you can download a 220 page source guide so you can check out all the facts stated for yourself.

Religious people have tried to debunk this movie, however, these debunkers cant back up there own facts.


Jesus Christ is the sun. Humans have always worshiped the sun, because without it, they knew life could not exist on the plant.

Saying the above, I am still a catholic, but am a un-happy one.

PDN

cickybab wrote: »

What is said in the movie is fact and truth.

If you go to the zeitgiest movie website, you can download a 220 page source guide so you can check out all the facts stated for yourself.

Religious people have tried to debunk this movie, however, these debunkers cant back up there own facts.


Jesus Christ is the sun. Humans have always worshiped the sun, because without it, they knew life could not exist on the plant.

Saying the above, I am still a catholic, but am a un-happy one.

And a woefully misinformed one if you fall for the unhistorical codswallop of Zeitgeist.

Even the enemies of Christianity admit it is full of nonsense. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zeitgeist:_The_Movie

Fanny Cradock

cickybab wrote: »

What is said in the movie is fact and truth.

If you go to the zeitgiest movie website, you can download a 220 page source guide so you can check out all the facts stated for yourself.

Religious people have tried to debunk this movie, however, these debunkers cant back up there own facts.


Jesus Christ is the sun. Humans have always worshiped the sun, because without it, they knew life could not exist on the plant.

Saying the above, I am still a catholic, but am a un-happy one.

You can't be a Catholic in any meaningful sense and believe that Zeitgeist speaks the truth. Next time the census comes around you might as well put "other" on the form.

If you want to believe that the film speaks the truth then go right ahead. But you actually might want to consider a critical examination of the claims first. Glenn Peoples does a job on the film here. (The player might be easy to miss; it's beside the donate picture.)

Turtwig

It's...

*Checks if profanity is now allowed in the charter*

... crap.

ISAW

Malty_T wrote: »

It's...

*Checks if profanity is now allowed in the charter*

... crap.

Sorry to be pedantic but.
The word you used isn't profane. Did you think it was or were you going to use another and decided to use that one instead? Profane is "taking the Lords name in vain" or attacking something sacred. Bad language and or swearing is different. Ironically the charter covers the latter and not the former
Obligatory the movie mentioned may be considered profane but not use bad language.

Doctor DooM

PDN wrote: »

Even the enemies of Christianity admit it is full of nonsense. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zeitgeist:_The_Movie

I'm going to zeitgeist this post:

I didn't realise wikipedia was the enemy of christianity :eek:

PDN

Doctor DooM wrote: »

I'm going to zeitgeist this post:

I didn't realise wikipedia was the enemy of christianity :eek:

Duh! I think you know quite rightly that I'm referring to some of the guys quoted in the wikipedia article.

Turtwig

PDN wrote: »

Duh! I think you know quite rightly that I'm referring to some of the guys quoted in the wikipedia article.

I think you missed the point of his post.

He "zeitgeisted" thereby blowing your quote completely out of proportion and the factual realm.:D

PDN

Malty_T wrote: »

I think you missed the point of his post.

He "zeitgeisted" thereby blowing your quote completely out of proportion and the factual realm.:D

Ah.

So zeitgeist has now become a verb. I really need to get out more - probably into the Conspiracy theories forum.

Doctor DooM

PDN wrote: »

Ah.

So zeitgeist has now become a verb. I really need to get out more - probably into the Conspiracy theories forum.

In your defence, I just made it up on the spot, but it should be a verb

pts

I'm an atheist, but I do not want my reasons for not believing the claims of Christianity to be blatantly factually incorrect.

Since theists and atheists alike seem to be in agreement about the factual accuracy of Zeitgiest, can we look at another video in the same way.

The Youtube user Evid3nc3 has a great series of videos detailing his loss of faith in Christianity and subsequent move towards atheism. All his videos are very well produced and thoughtful, but I'd like to look at one in particular. In 3.3.3 Atheism: A History of God (Part 1) he discusses the evolution of the Bible, based on the book "A History of God" by Karen Armstrong.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlnnWbkMlbg

I would be very interested in hearing peoples opinions the areas touched upon in this video and Karen Armstrong's book.

PDN

pts wrote: »

I'm an atheist, but I do not want my reasons for not believing the claims of Christianity to be blatantly factually incorrect.

Since theists and atheists alike seem to be in agreement about the factual accuracy of Zeitgiest, can we look at another video in the same way.

The Youtube user Evid3nc3 has a great series of videos detailing his loss of faith in Christianity and subsequent move towards atheism. All his videos are very well produced and thoughtful, but I'd like to look at one in particular. In 3.3.3 Atheism: A History of God (Part 1) he discusses the evolution of the Bible, based on the book "A History of God" by Karen Armstrong.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlnnWbkMlbg

I would be very interested in hearing peoples opinions the areas touched upon in this video and Karen Armstrong's book.

We have an Atheist/Christian Debate Thread specifically for this kind of thing. Can you take it there please?

pts

PDN wrote: »

We have an Atheist/Christian Debate Thread specifically for this kind of thing. Can you take it there please?

I'm not trying to backseat mod (famous last words), but I don't see how this post is different from the original post, which didn't go into a separate thread.

PDN

pts wrote: »

I'm not trying to backseat mod (famous last words), but I don't see how this post is different from the original post, which didn't go into a separate thread.

The OP was over 18 months ago, before the creation of the Atheist/Christian debate thread.. This is a zombie thread.

pts

PDN wrote: »

The OP was over 18 months ago, before the creation of the Atheist/Christian debate thread.. This is a zombie thread.

Ah, that is a fair point
Ok I'll see if I can find the Atheist/Christian debate thread so. Hope to see you there..